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  1. #241
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by ncexnyc View Post
    Just want to make sure I completely understand, but are you sure you really mean, "Duke is quite overrated" and not "Duke has overachieved?"
    Good point.

  2. #242
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by gep View Post
    Well... my glass is always more than half full. "Bounce back"... I think winning the ACCT is a definite "bounce back". Getting to the Final Four is even more of a "bounce back". Winning the NC... well, that is the definition of "bounce back".

    DUKE had a very good season so far. Imagine, if 2 of the 3 ACC losses were to GaTech and NCState, instead of FSU and unc (meaning sweeping both FSU and unc). Maybe still tied for ACC regular season (if FSU and/or unc find another win), but I don't think many here would be as "down" as they are now if that happened. I think the overwhelming loss to unc is just "hard to take", especially the last game of the regular season, and giving unc the outright regular season title.

    But remember... there is MORE TO COME!!! GO DUKE!!!
    I totally agree with you. Duke has had a very, very good season so far and certainly winning the ACC tournament would be a ," bounce back". Yes, the overwhelming loss to UNC was hard to take but so were the losses at home to FSU,and Miami.

  3. #243
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by davekay1971 View Post
    How long does a "bounce back" take? Can one "bounce back" by Friday, which is the only game currently on our calendar? Does it require Duke winning the ACC tournament for you, in your expertise, to credit the team with adequately bouncing back? Or, if we perform so badly as to not win the ACC tournament, do we have to make the final four or win the NCAA tournament for you to give a thumbs up to our team having finally "bounced back"?

    I don't think it's at all unreasonable to hope the team will bounce back with a good performance against VT/Clemson. They may or may not be able to win the ACC tournament, but they could actually play quite well and still lose to a very good FSU or an extremely good UNC team on Saturday or Sunday.

    Good luck in your quest to be able to tell us all how brilliant you are in your basketball prognostication abilities. If Duke does, indeed lose in the first weekend of the NCAA tournament, I fully hope to see a thread started by you entitled, "See, I was right, we were quite overrated", and I will post on there my heartfelt congratulations and recognition that, yes, you sir, called it.

    Dave, your sarcasm behooves you. This was not a prognostication just an opinion based on what I have seen this season. Starting in January, Duke has beaten only 2 really good teams, ( UNC and FSU), and has struggled to put others away. Yes, they beat Kansas and Michigan in Maui and Michigan State at MSG early on, but those teams are better now then they were then.

    I would never start a thread saying ," See I was right", but would acknowledge your congratulations.

    Incidentially, in your opinion, which is worth or is as worthless as mine, how do you think Duke will do in the NCAA tournament ? What are your expectations? Do you think that they are a Final 4 team, an Elite 8 a Sweet 16?

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by NYC Duke Fan View Post
    Dave, your sarcasm behooves you. This was not a prognostication just an opinion based on what I have seen this season. Starting in January, Duke has beaten only 2 really good teams, ( UNC and FSU), and has struggled to put others away. Yes, they beat Kansas and Michigan in Maui and Michigan State at MSG early on, but those teams are better now then they were then.

    I would never start a thread saying ," See I was right", but would acknowledge your congratulations.

    Incidentially, in your opinion, which is worth or is as worthless as mine, how do you think Duke will do in the NCAA tournament ? What are your expectations? Do you think that they are a Final 4 team, an Elite 8 a Sweet 16?
    How many really good teams has UNC beaten all year - particularly since Jan? How many games have they struggled to put away (see Duke and UVA)? I think you can say the same about many teams this year. There is really no great team in college ball this year. KY is looking strong but their youth is an issue.
    dukelifer

  5. #245
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, Georgia
    Just what is it that you've observed this year that leads you to conclude that Kentucky's youth is an issue?

  6. #246
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by jaytoc View Post
    Just what is it that you've observed this year that leads you to conclude that Kentucky's youth is an issue?
    Good question. Kentucky's youth (or, in at least one case, immaturity) was an issue in 2010, for sure. And in theory a young team can always tighten up at tournament time. But this particular young Kentucky team plays like a team, not a pickup squad, and they play excellent defense (which is sometimes a problem for younger teams). Not saying they will win it all because a lot can happen. But I wouldn't bet against them right now just because they are young.

  7. #247
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by MCFinARL View Post
    Good question. Kentucky's youth (or, in at least one case, immaturity) was an issue in 2010, for sure. And in theory a young team can always tighten up at tournament time. But this particular young Kentucky team plays like a team, not a pickup squad, and they play excellent defense (which is sometimes a problem for younger teams). Not saying they will win it all because a lot can happen. But I wouldn't bet against them right now just because they are young.
    I agree with you., Syracuse with its zone could give them problems but I do not see another other than UNC that could beat them. Syracuse, UNC and Kentucky right now are by far the 3 best teams with maybe 7-10 teams below them

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by jaytoc View Post
    Just what is it that you've observed this year that leads you to conclude that Kentucky's youth is an issue?
    Well they have not really played a killer schedule (two wins over Fla who does not match up well against them) and NCAA games tend to be close. KY is very good and could win it all- but experience does seem to matter in the tourney when things get tight. They are likely a FF team - but after that we shall see.
    dukelifer

  9. #249
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Charlotte, North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by NYC Duke Fan View Post
    Dave, your sarcasm behooves you. This was not a prognostication just an opinion based on what I have seen this season. Starting in January, Duke has beaten only 2 really good teams, ( UNC and FSU), and has struggled to put others away. Yes, they beat Kansas and Michigan in Maui and Michigan State at MSG early on, but those teams are better now then they were then.

    I would never start a thread saying ," See I was right", but would acknowledge your congratulations.

    Incidentially, in your opinion, which is worth or is as worthless as mine, how do you think Duke will do in the NCAA tournament ? What are your expectations? Do you think that they are a Final 4 team, an Elite 8 a Sweet 16?
    First, thank you! I pride myself on a healthy blend of cynicism and sarcasm!

    I try to limit my prognostications on the NCAA tournament. I've followed the event far too long and far too closely to look at a team at the end of the regular season, before conference tournaments are done, and long before pairings are announced, and pretend to have any idea what a group of 18-21 year olds is going to do in an emotionally charged one-and-done event, particularly when they are competing against other groups of 18-21 year olds who are similarly emotionally charged. I also try to steer clear of fortune telling, ouija boards, and astrology.

    Answering your fair question without all the humor, I really do think it's pretty pointless to say, "This is an elite eight team." I have no idea who might be our 2nd or 3rd round matchup or, assuming, say, we're a 2 seed, what's going to happen to the hypothetical 1, 4, and 5 seeds in the same bracket in which we haven't yet been placed. In 1983, as of the last game of the regular season, NC State was a "hope you enjoy watching from your dorm room" team. Weeks later, Cozell McQueen was standing on the rim celebrating being the starting center of the national champions.

    A better question is probabl˙: is Duke, in my opinion (of questionable worth, I will be the first to admit) a national champion contender, or a team that has too many flaws to seriously make a run? I'd say we're a lot closer to a national champion contender than a team too fatally flawed to realistically make a run. I base that opinion, for what it's worth, on our record to date, particularly our record against NCAA tournament team caliber competition, as well an assessment of the other high level teams out there.

    I have no idea, however, how that will translate into whether or not we win the thing, or at what round we might be eliminated. Tell you what, when the brackets are announced, I can tell you if I think we're likely to survive the first weekend. If we survive the first weekend and have an idea who we will face in the regional semis and regional finals, I'll tell you what I think about our chances to survive the 2nd weekend. Etc...
    Brian Zoubek on what was going through his mind walking to the free throw line with 3.6 seconds remaining in the 2010 National Championship game and Duke up by 1: "Fifty percent [of me is] thinking, This is what I've been dreaming of doing my entire life. Fifty percent I'm crapping my pants."

  10. #250
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, Georgia
    Sounds like you simply assume youth will be an issue, but not based on anything that has happened this year. When this Kentucky team was much younger it defended it's home court against the immensely talented and somewhat experienced Tarheels. Two wins over a pretty good Vandy team and an unbeaten conference schedule, however weak the SEC may be this year. I see no indication of youth as a weakness. We all know that anything can happen in one and done tourney play, and Kentucky may not win it all. But that won't necessarily mean that youth caused their downfall.

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by NYC Duke Fan View Post
    I am curious when you say, " we will bounce back". It is the end of the season. Where will we, " bounce back" ? In your heart of hearts do you mean we will ," bounce back", to win the ACC tournament ? " Bounce back", to make the Final Four; to win the NCAA tournament? " Bounce back", for next year?

    There really is so little time to ," bounce back" as everything now is a one and done situation...The ACC tourney, the NCAA tourney.

    I have said this before , I would not be surprised if Duke does not survive the first weekend of the NCAA tournament. I think that Coach K has done a stupendous job this year and based on its rankings, in my opinion I think that Duke is quite overrated.
    Maybe I am a little too optomistic. If you listened to what Coach K had to say about us in the pre game analysis, he clearly said we have the ability to to be anyone, but he felt Carolina had the ability to beat anyone easier than what we do. I agree, and I think there are other teams that are in the same category as UNC. But, our guards aren't going to shoot that bad every night. Regardless of talent, athletic ability, or what have you, there is NO ONE BETTER than Coach K in preparing a team for the tournament. It is a matter of our ability to execute. If our mid range and long range jumpers aren't going down and we play defense as poorly as we did Saturday, we are going to get smoked. I think Coach K has done a fantasitic job with these kids and I'll be wearing my royal blue and white cheering them on.

  12. #252
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by davekay1971 View Post
    First, thank you! I pride myself on a healthy blend of cynicism and sarcasm!

    I try to limit my prognostications on the NCAA tournament. I've followed the event far too long and far too closely to look at a team at the end of the regular season, before conference tournaments are done, and long before pairings are announced, and pretend to have any idea what a group of 18-21 year olds is going to do in an emotionally charged one-and-done event, particularly when they are competing against other groups of 18-21 year olds who are similarly emotionally charged. I also try to steer clear of fortune telling, ouija boards, and astrology.

    Answering your fair question without all the humor, I really do think it's pretty pointless to say, "This is an elite eight team." I have no idea who might be our 2nd or 3rd round matchup or, assuming, say, we're a 2 seed, what's going to happen to the hypothetical 1, 4, and 5 seeds in the same bracket in which we haven't yet been placed. In 1983, as of the last game of the regular season, NC State was a "hope you enjoy watching from your dorm room" team. Weeks later, Cozell McQueen was standing on the rim celebrating being the starting center of the national champions.

    A better question is probabl˙: is Duke, in my opinion (of questionable worth, I will be the first to admit) a national champion contender, or a team that has too many flaws to seriously make a run? I'd say we're a lot closer to a national champion contender than a team too fatally flawed to realistically make a run. I base that opinion, for what it's worth, on our record to date, particularly our record against NCAA tournament team caliber competition, as well an assessment of the other high level teams out there.

    I have no idea, however, how that will translate into whether or not we win the thing, or at what round we might be eliminated. Tell you what, when the brackets are announced, I can tell you if I think we're likely to survive the first weekend. If we survive the first weekend and have an idea who we will face in the regional semis and regional finals, I'll tell you what I think about our chances to survive the 2nd weekend. Etc...
    Excellent reply..Thanks. Hopefully we can post or chat or whatever after the brackets are determined. Once again thanks for taking the time.

  13. #253
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by jaytoc View Post
    Sounds like you simply assume youth will be an issue, but not based on anything that has happened this year.
    That's what I assume as well. Doesn't mean Kentucky can't win the title, but they start 3 freshman and 2 sophomores. Their 6th man is a senior, but their 7th and 8th guys are another freshman and a sophomore.

    So history is against them. No team other than Michigan's Fab Five has made a Final Four with that kind of inexperience, and even 1992 Michigan had several juniors and seniors coming off the bench. Plus, they didn't win the title.

  14. #254

    Timeouts

    Was it me, or did we not call any time-outs while we were getting blown out in the first 5 or 6 minutes of the game? Coach K said we were overwhelmed... surprised we didnt call any time-outs early.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by aav2aav2 View Post
    Was it me, or did we not call any time-outs while we were getting blown out in the first 5 or 6 minutes of the game? Coach K said we were overwhelmed... surprised we didnt call any time-outs early.
    Interesting thing was that with 7:27 left- when most the of the first half jitters were supposedly gone- the game was 30-19. Not great but certainly it could have gone either way at that point. UNC finished the half with a 18-5 run to match the 18-5 run at the beginning of the game. But that late run was the ball game- too much separation. If Duke had settled down at tehe end of the first half- when many Duke teams find their rhythm- it might have been a close game. Outside that big run- Duke did not do that badly.
    dukelifer

  16. #256
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Irvine, CA
    Has Ryan played SF at all this year? Just thought he might be tougher on Barnes with his height since none of our guards can really bother his shot.
    And it might have helped on the boards to go with the Plumlees and Ryan in a big lineup. I just can't remember seeing all 3 of them on the floor together at any time this year.

  17. #257
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieinSoCal View Post
    Has Ryan played SF at all this year?
    No.

    We've discussed the possibility on these boards, but the consensus (which I agree with) was Ryan probably couldn't adequately guard HB.

  18. #258
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by aav2aav2 View Post
    Was it me, or did we not call any time-outs while we were getting blown out in the first 5 or 6 minutes of the game? Coach K said we were overwhelmed... surprised we didnt call any time-outs early.
    I noticed that.....I thought maybe he was taking a play out of roy's book. I think perhaps he thought nothing he could have said during the timeout would have helped the team?

    We weren't getting bad shots....but i think maybe just time to say calm down guys....shrug....it was very slow in unfolding....despite being so disastrous...if you recall, it was 4-4...and then 5-8? or something....maybe he was hoping to get to the 16 minute timeout?
    usa

  19. #259
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    No.

    We've discussed the possibility on these boards, but the consensus (which I agree with) was Ryan probably couldn't adequately guard HB.
    Maybe it's time to reconsider that possibility. I'd rather see Barnes with his suspect handle trying to drive by Ryan, than watch him shoot over our small guards. Putting Rivers on TBP hurts us with Bullock and Marshall gaining a serious advantage over Quinn, Seth, Andre, and Tyler. Can Ryan do any worse?

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by ncexnyc View Post
    Maybe it's time to reconsider that possibility. I'd rather see Barnes with his suspect handle trying to drive by Ryan, than watch him shoot over our small guards. Putting Rivers on TBP hurts us with Bullock and Marshall gaining a serious advantage over Quinn, Seth, Andre, and Tyler. Can Ryan do any worse?
    This has been my pov since before the game @UNC. Even if Black Pigeon gets past Kelly, which he probably would, a) HB is not a gifted passer b) Kelly has a knack for blocking shots from behind, which is helpful since he's got 3 inches on HB c) nobody else has done a particularly effective job. However, Ryan's value is primarily on O and if matched on HB, he ought to be able to shoot over him, which RK can't do vs. Henson, nor can he drive on Henson, whereas RK can post up HB or do the running hook. But if we play all our bigs at once, at least vs UNC, we're left with only Hairston as a reserve frontcourt player.

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