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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Boca Grande Florida
    If UNC wins out, why wouldn't 'old Roy be in the COY mix as much as coach K?

    Roy's lost two starting players to injury and still might win the league outright. That's pretty impressive coaching.
    Wheat/"/"/"
    "An angry man catches no fish"-Zen proverb.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    If UNC wins out, why wouldn't 'old Roy be in the COY mix as much as coach K?

    Roy's lost two starting players to injury and still might win the league outright. That's pretty impressive coaching.
    They weren't both going to start and neither was ever very good. Besides, the voters were unimpressed when Krzyzewski overcame losing the best player in college basketball to win the ACC championship last season, so we shouldn't expect Williams to get similar consideration for a lesser accomplishment.

  3. #23
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    Feb 2008
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    On the couch
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    If UNC wins out, why wouldn't 'old Roy be in the COY mix as much as coach K?

    Roy's lost two starting players to injury and still might win the league outright. That's pretty impressive coaching.
    What exactly has Roy done in coaching terms due to the loss of Strickland and McDonald? Did he change the style of play? Did he move a player out of their comfort zone to take on a different role?

    Best I can tell is he inserted another McDonald's All American into the line up.

    Not exactly awe inspiring COY stuff.

    Not sure anyone outside of CH would think that Roy has done amazing things with a team of 4 first round NBA picks.

    In fact most UNC fans I talk to are not very hopeful of a deep run in the NCAAT and think the team has underachieved.

    I am not writing them off by any means but to think that what Roy has done this year is worthy of COY honors is a bit of a stretch IMO.

  4. #24
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    Mar 2007
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    Boca Grande Florida
    Quote Originally Posted by oldnavy View Post
    What exactly has Roy done in coaching terms due to the loss of Strickland and McDonald? Did he change the style of play? Did he move a player out of their comfort zone to take on a different role?

    Best I can tell is he inserted another McDonald's All American into the line up.

    Not exactly awe inspiring COY stuff.

    Not sure anyone outside of CH would think that Roy has done amazing things with a team of 4 first round NBA picks.

    In fact most UNC fans I talk to are not very hopeful of a deep run in the NCAAT and think the team has underachieved.

    I am not writing them off by any means but to think that what Roy has done this year is worthy of COY honors is a bit of a stretch IMO.
    I don't think he's COY either, I'd vote for Bennett, just that he should be considered equally alongside any discussion with what coach K has done this season.
    Wheat/"/"/"
    "An angry man catches no fish"-Zen proverb.

  5. #25
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    Feb 2008
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    On the couch
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    I don't think he's COY either, I'd vote for Bennett, just that he should be considered equally alongside any discussion with what coach K has done this season.
    The only way I could see Coach K having a shot at COY is if he wins out including the ACCT. That may be enough to do it. I don't think Roy has a shot, because even if UNC does win out it would be as predicted.

    I don't think that K or Roy will win it... not sure who will at this point, still a lot of important games to be played.....

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Northern VA
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    If UNC wins out, why wouldn't 'old Roy be in the COY mix as much as coach K?

    Roy's lost two starting players to injury and still might win the league outright. That's pretty impressive coaching.

    Hard for the coach of the ACC-preseason-favorite to win the Coach of the Year, as we've seen so many times with K. It is just a matter of expectations being already too high, rightly or wrongly.

    Last year K lost the best player on the team, around whom the strategy was all built, in early December, and still won the ACC... but no award - so losing a couple bench players doesn't sound like much of a comparative argument. I like Bennett, but UVA's late-season mini-slide could hamper that. I think K is a good candidate this year. NC State hasn't disappointed relative to preseason expectations either.

    But in Roy's defense, he did at least manage to keep the FSU margin under 35....



    -BDBD

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by oldnavy View Post
    The only way I could see Coach K having a shot at COY is if he wins out including the ACCT.
    I think awards are voted on for regular season only, though someone with definite knowledge should confirm or correct this for me. This is a pretty tricky year for that sort of thing. As of this moment (before the outcome of FSU-Miami is clear), the top 5 in the ACC are exactly as picked in the media poll, with the exception of Duke being tied 1st instead of 2nd. In fact, the only two team who is beating their preseason prediction by more than one spot right now are NC State (T-6, picked 8), so it's pretty wide open. I wouldn't discount Roy so fast since voters will sometimes just go with the winner when no one has stepped out too much. I can still see Hamilton getting it if FSU wins out which would tie them for 2nd and give them the 2 seed in the tourney when most thought that while they would be third, it would be a distant 3rd. Bennett is still in it, but UVA's slump down the stretch will hurt him, and if you can muster up the courage for a last place team, BC has been far from the complete and utter doormat that was expected, and if they can beat GTech at home, they will likely share the basement with the loser of GTech-Wake on the last day of the season. There's really no stand out candidate and I have a feeling that it will just go to the champion, whether it is K or Roy.
    Pratt '09
    GO DUKE!

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    There is no way, IMHO, that Roy will be COY, unless underachieving is the most important factor. Let's be serious, UNC was supposed to have the a "great" team as Jay Bilas repeated ad nauseam during the off-season and pre-season. A team with 4 first-rounders, and two stud McD's coming in... the table was set for a 2009-type of team. However, this team is currently 3rd in ACC... far from "great"

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Nashville
    Quote Originally Posted by CajunDevil View Post
    However, this team is currently 3rd in ACC... far from "great"
    Well, they are tied for first, although if the ACC had head to head tie-breakers I guess they'd be second pending the rematch in Cameron. Like Coach K, Roy is a victim of his own success, as well. If they were to finish out the regular season with wins (I pray they have at least one other loss!), a 14-2 record in the ACC is very impressive, even for National Title contenders. I think the 2010 Duke team was better than both current editions of the Heels and Devils. And yet that team was still only 13-3 in conference. 14-2 is an accomplishment. And they are a Zeller own-goal away from being 13-1 currently. Honestly, the only reason their current ACC record isn't impressive is because Duke and FSU have kept things much closer than anticipated. But losing @FSU (rather embarrassingly) and at home to Duke on a buzzer beater definitely do not look like bad losses now.

    That being said, I do think that Coach K deserves a bit more consideration. Duke was picked 2nd mostly because no one believed that FSU would actually take the next step and become a serious threat in the ACC. I think most people preseason would've expected Duke to have at least 12-4 or even 11-5 in the ACC, but that it might be good enough to capture second place. That Duke is ahead of an FSU squad with only three ACC losses is quite the accomplishment considering all the talent that left Durham after last season. Consider what happened at UNC in 2009-2010 after the Heels lost a ton of talent but were also bringing back talented players like Zeller, Ed Davis, and Drew, II in addition to a frosh class that included the highly touted Henson. Or consider what happened to Duke in 2007 after Redick and Williams departed. What Coach K has done this season should not be taken for granted as even he has not always been able to reload so incredibly effectively.

  10. #30
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    ooops. My mistake. UNC is second not third...Still not great considering their supposed world-beater status.

  11. #31
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    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    Nevermind, can't get the link to work.
    Last edited by Wheat/"/"/"; 02-26-2012 at 09:18 PM.
    Wheat/"/"/"
    "An angry man catches no fish"-Zen proverb.

  12. #32
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    Mar 2008
    Location
    New Orleans, Louisiana
    I've been thinking about the Coach of the Year recently, more in the national sense. I find myself unenthusiastic for John Calipari and Jim Boeheim -- for very different reasons -- and I think I see some of that lack of enthusiasm in this ACC-centered thread. (Even the pro-K crowd is cool and nonchalant about it.)

    If the politics of COY is a function of breaking through nationally and/or exceeding expectations and/or having the best season, then there are a few viable candidates, like Buzz Williams at Marquette. But there's not really any slam-dunk choice. If Coach K is a victim of his own success, then maybe it couldn't hurt to root for K-adjacent head coaches like Mike Brey or Tommy Amaker.

    Personally, I would vote for one of the two coaches that had the best offseason: Frank Haith of Missouri and Ed DeChellis of Navy, who had the luck/foresight/inside knowledge to leave a pair of sinking ship programs at Miami and Penn State. (The fact that Missouri is a top 5 team tends to make Haith the better choice. I have no idea how Navy is doing this season, and it kind of doesn't matter.)

  13. #33
    Roy Williams won last year right?

    Coach K won '99, so "winning with a pre-season overwhelming favorite" isn't necessarily an automatic disqualification. He didn't win in '01 though -- and I thought that was masterful season.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by gus View Post
    Roy Williams won last year right?
    To be fair, Williams deserved the award for undoing the horrible damage done by UNC's coach the year before.

  15. #35
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    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by -bdbd View Post
    Hard for the coach of the ACC-preseason-favorite to win the Coach of the Year, as we've seen so many times with K. It is just a matter of expectations being already too high, rightly or wrongly.

    Last year K lost the best player on the team, around whom the strategy was all built, in early December, and still won the ACC... but no award - so losing a couple bench players doesn't sound like much of a comparative argument. I like Bennett, but UVA's late-season mini-slide could hamper that. I think K is a good candidate this year. NC State hasn't disappointed relative to preseason expectations either.

    But in Roy's defense, he did at least manage to keep the FSU margin under 35....



    Yeh, and he got himself and the starters to the dressing room unharmed at FSU. Still don't know about the walk ons. GoDuke!

  16. #36
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    Feb 2007
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    Lynchburg, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    To be fair, Williams deserved the award for undoing the horrible damage done by UNC's coach the year before.
    Simply brilliant.

  17. #37
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    Feb 2008
    Location
    Charlotte, North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    To be fair, Williams deserved the award for undoing the horrible damage done by UNC's coach the year before.
    Wonderful post...but completely wrong.

    Larry Drew 2(two/dos) deserves all the credit for undoing the horrible damage done by UNC's coach the year before.
    Brian Zoubek on what was going through his mind walking to the free throw line with 3.6 seconds remaining in the 2010 National Championship game and Duke up by 1: "Fifty percent [of me is] thinking, This is what I've been dreaming of doing my entire life. Fifty percent I'm crapping my pants."

  18. #38
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    Dec 2007
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    Cary, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    To be fair, Williams deserved the award for undoing the horrible damage done by UNC's coach the year before.
    I was going to post the same thing. Expectations were low coming into the season only because he did such an awful job coaching the previous year. So there was a perception that he overachieved. He had as much talent in 2011 as anyone once Kyrie went down. I do give him credit for handling the Drew departure, the Wear departures, and the Bullock injury though.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Quote Originally Posted by oldnavy View Post
    What exactly has Roy done in coaching terms due to the loss of Strickland and McDonald? Did he change the style of play? Did he move a player out of their comfort zone to take on a different role?

    Best I can tell is he inserted another McDonald's All American into the line up.

    Not exactly awe inspiring COY stuff.

    Not sure anyone outside of CH would think that Roy has done amazing things with a team of 4 first round NBA picks.

    In fact most UNC fans I talk to are not very hopeful of a deep run in the NCAAT and think the team has underachieved.

    I am not writing them off by any means but to think that what Roy has done this year is worthy of COY honors is a bit of a stretch IMO.
    Agreed. For most of the season, the Heels have looked like a team where the whole is less than the sum of the parts. They have certainly NOT been the juggernaut that many were predicting in the preseason. Injuries to McDonald and Strickland have been a factor, to be sure, but they still have arguably the most talent 1-7 on their roster anywhere outside of Lexington. But McAdoo and Hairston have had less impact than expected, and Barnes has not been a consistently dominant player - again, as many were predicting in preseason - by any stretch (I would argue that he has regressed somewhat versus the second half of last season, especially in terms of defense, board work and general "activity level"). So where exactly is the rationale for Roy as a COY candidate?

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    Trying this again...
    An example of good coaching in a tight game by Roy that no-one ever wants to give him credit for...

    http://youtu.be/dkKaCgd5eLw?hd=1
    Wheat/"/"/"
    "An angry man catches no fish"-Zen proverb.

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