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  1. #161
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Correct side of the Durham/CH border
    Quote Originally Posted by killerleft View Post
    After reading this thread, the main thing I take away from it is this: the Duke fanbase hates the refs just like all the others we harp on, no more and no less.

    Karl Hess may have screwed up the protocol, but I seriously doubt Corchianni and Gugliotta were innocent of wrongdoing. I just can't see Hess throwing out two State legends without ample cause. Certainly he knew the firestorm that he was creating. Hess may or may not be a horrible ref, but he'd have to be quite stupid to do what he did without a reason. Sorry, just doesn't compute.
    You're essentially suggesting he is a definitively rational person - but maybe he isn't rational at all.

  2. #162
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    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Quote Originally Posted by killerleft View Post
    After reading this thread, the main thing I take away from it is this: the Duke fanbase hates the refs just like all the others we harp on, no more and no less.

    Karl Hess may have screwed up the protocol, but I seriously doubt Corchianni and Gugliotta were innocent of wrongdoing. I just can't see Hess throwing out two State legends without ample cause. Certainly he knew the firestorm that he was creating. Hess may or may not be a horrible ref, but he'd have to be quite stupid to do what he did without a reason. Sorry, just doesn't compute.
    A lot of things that don't compute happen anyway, but the bottom line is that we really don't know what happened to precipitate the ejection. We're just speculating spectators (specutators).

  3. #163
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    Dec 2009
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    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Chicago 1995 View Post
    I don't think it is the colossal error or the culmination of a career filled with grandstanding, inconsistency and generally poor work. I merely think this is a symptom or an indication as to how overblown Hess's ego has become. It's not the error, but its a strong indication that he thinks he's above reproach, and that what he's been doing all these years, which vascilates between simply ruining otherwise watchable game and out and out effecting the outcome of games, is right.

    The missed goaltend was attrocious, but hell, so too was the screw job he gave us in the 2004 ACC title game.

    It's a wonder we all don't aspire to be officials. There's no accountability, it seems, and unlike most other professions, no correlation between the quality of your work and the success of your career.
    First off, apologies. I wasn't really addressing your post specifically, just using it as a jumping point for my own post. I should have made that more clear. But what I was trying to address was what seems to be an oversized reaction from the NC State fanbase. Think about it: people are still shouting about a referee blowing a call four days after the game, and this is for a call that had absolutely zero effect on the outcome of the game. I have never seen such a burning spotlight placed on a call which, though embarassing for Hess, was completely inconsequential for the game itself. I think it says something about the current mental fragility of the NC State fanbase right now. They are still reeling from their collapse against us. Maybe it's PTSD?
    "With seven national titles and 20 Final Fours in the 64-team NCAA Tournament era, Duke and UNC have had more playoff success than any other CONFERENCE." - Al Featherston

  4. #164
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    Feb 2007
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    Greensboro, NC

    All-time leading scorer Karl Hess

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Rosenrosen View Post
    You're essentially suggesting he is a definitively rational person - but maybe he isn't rational at all.
    He's just been good at faking people out for all these years?

    I'd forgotten this (scroll down):

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty...arl_Hess_.2311
    Last edited by killerleft; 02-21-2012 at 03:51 PM. Reason: instructions
    Man, if your Mom made you wear that color when you were a baby, and you're still wearing it, it's time to grow up!

  5. #165
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Correct side of the Durham/CH border
    Quote Originally Posted by killerleft View Post
    He's just been good at faking people out for all these years?

    I'd forgotten this (scroll down):

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty...arl_Hess_.2311
    Not exactly sure what that means.

    I don't know, maybe he's looking for attention (consciously or subconsciously) on a big stage again. I just don't agree that there HAD to be a logical reason for him to do what he did. Anyway, we'll never really know. So...

  6. #166
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Wilmington, DE & Durham, NC
    After all this discussion, we still do not know what C&G did. It seems to me that the ACC could have put out a simple statement saying what they did. That way all schools and all fans would be on notice about the specific behavior that was deemed unacceptable. The failure of the ACC to take this simple step convinces me that they know that Hess was out of control. The issue is not how good an official he is, but why he made this particular call. The fact that he is a "good official" is irrelevant. And with all due respect to Playcaller, his article is filled with "ifs" not facts. Hess screwed up, the ACC needs to protect its officials. As always, the coverup is worse than the crime.

  7. #167
    The league says it has conducted a thorough investigation of the incident. I take that to mean it interviewed the officials at the scorer's table as well as the FSU assistant AD who commented on the incident to NC State officials. I say all that with a bit of sarcasm.

    As someone who reads Pack Pride daily, this is not a simple case of that fan base reeling from the loss to Duke. They perceive the conference as having favored their two neighbors for far too long. Go over there and argue with them about it. There are enough threads on the subject.

  8. #168
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    Feb 2007
    Location
    Sterling, VA
    That Wikipedia article says Hess is a psychologist who also refs basketball games?

  9. #169
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    Feb 2007
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    Greensboro, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Rosenrosen View Post
    Not exactly sure what that means.

    I don't know, maybe he's looking for attention (consciously or subconsciously) on a big stage again. I just don't agree that there HAD to be a logical reason for him to do what he did. Anyway, we'll never really know. So...
    Nothing to it, just interesting. Karl himself is a legendary baller.

    Those farmers over at State College need to get a grip. Just how is the State perception of ref favoritism any different than that of our unrival, the Maryland Terps'? Or Carolina's? Or ours? It just happens to ebb and flow, according to whether things are going good at the time. Things are not going well over in Raleigh these last few days.
    Last edited by killerleft; 02-21-2012 at 08:17 PM.
    Man, if your Mom made you wear that color when you were a baby, and you're still wearing it, it's time to grow up!

  10. #170
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Walnut Creek, California

    Now Gottfried is getting into it

    Yahoo headline:

    Mark Gottfried blasts Karl Hess over ejection of NC State legends


    Gottfried did not hold back the way he did in his news conference after Saturday's game. He called Hess' decision "weak" and said "the official was completely out of line 100 percent." "I'm disappointed quite frankly in the ACC because not only did he throw out two of North Carolina State's greats, he threw out two of the ACC's greats," Gottfried said. "The league is supporting an official rather than supporting former great players. The former great players, in my opinion, were embarrassed and wronged when they shouldn't have been. I don't think you can have rabbit ears like that if you're a referee and start throwing people out. I was disappointed in the whole thing."

  11. #171
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    Feb 2008
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim3k View Post
    Now watch Gottfried get fined.

  12. #172
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by FerryFor50 View Post
    Now watch Gottfried get fined.
    For context, Gottfried did not make those comments at a press conference or in front of a reporter. The comments were made to the students at the annual "Ram Roast" last night, which is held each year prior to the game with UNC. It being 2012 and all that, one of the students recorded it on his phone and decided it would be a good idea to post it on Facebook. A classic case of "I have met the enemy and it is me". Dumb idea to hang your coach out like that if you ask me.

    I suspect the ACC will reprimand Gottfried which will only make this worse.

    The Carolina Way:
    169 student-athletes had at least 1 semester where the grade in their paper class either pushed or kept their GPA above 2.0. At least 1 semester each of those students had recalculated GPA (excluding the paper class grade(s))below a 2.0. This includes 123 FB players, 15 Men's BB players. 81 students earned degrees from Chapel Hill whose recalculated final GPA excluding the grade(s) from their paper class or classes was less than the 2.0 required to graduate.

  13. #173
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Meeting with Marie Laveau
    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    For context, Gottfried did not make those comments at a press conference or in front of a reporter. The comments were made to the students at the annual "Ram Roast" last night, which is held each year prior to the game with UNC. It being 2012 and all that, one of the students recorded it on his phone and decided it would be a good idea to post it on Facebook. A classic case of "I have met the enemy and it is me". Dumb idea to hang your coach out like that if you ask me.

    I suspect the ACC will reprimand Gottfried which will only make this worse.
    If that happens, it certainly will suggest that coaches may have to word whatever they say very carefully at pep rallies and similar gatherings.... and the spontaneity associated with pep rallies will be diminished.

  14. #174
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil in the Blue Dress View Post
    If that happens, it certainly will suggest that coaches may have to word whatever they say very carefully at pep rallies and similar gatherings.... and the spontaneity associated with pep rallies will be diminished.
    Agree. It;s sad really. In that type of setting, coaches will generaly speak more frankly and thats a good thing. If their own students are going to ruin that by taking it viral then, like you indicate, all we will ever get is "coach speak" no matter the setting. There are some things better left off the internet.

    The Carolina Way:
    169 student-athletes had at least 1 semester where the grade in their paper class either pushed or kept their GPA above 2.0. At least 1 semester each of those students had recalculated GPA (excluding the paper class grade(s))below a 2.0. This includes 123 FB players, 15 Men's BB players. 81 students earned degrees from Chapel Hill whose recalculated final GPA excluding the grade(s) from their paper class or classes was less than the 2.0 required to graduate.

  15. #175
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    Sep 2007
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    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    For context, Gottfried did not make those comments at a press conference or in front of a reporter. The comments were made to the students at the annual "Ram Roast" last night, which is held each year prior to the game with UNC. It being 2012 and all that, one of the students recorded it on his phone and decided it would be a good idea to post it on Facebook. A classic case of "I have met the enemy and it is me". Dumb idea to hang your coach out like that if you ask me.

    I suspect the ACC will reprimand Gottfried which will only make this worse.
    Gottfried just made himself the most popular coach in Raleigh since V.

    If he gets fined, it's well worth it.
    Roy, be a man. Accept responsibility and resign.

  16. #176
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    Feb 2007
    Location
    Walnut Creek, California
    In some ways, Yahoo's headine is worse than what Gottfried actually said.


    It won't matter, though, cuz Gottfried will pay for it.

  17. #177
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Wilmington, DE & Durham, NC
    Iwould be surprised if the ACC does anything to Gottfried. the ACC obviously wants this to go away. Punishing Gottfried breathes new life into this controversy and almost guarantees that it carries over to the Tournament. And it would further inflame a fan base that is convinced that the league is out to get them. Unless the league is willing to come forward with a credible explanation of why what C&G did was so outrageously excessive that it necessitating the ejection of team and league legends it would be best to just ignore Gottfried's statements. The league office needs to remember the first rule of hole digging--when you get in too deep it is time to stop digging.

  18. #178
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    near the Thrillerdome in ATL

    Hess and the Ejections

    Googs was interviewed last night on a local Atlanta sports network station, CSS. He was attending the game with his daughter and said he has no idea as to why he was ejected. I'll(or someone more accomplished than I, Jason??) will try to find a link to the interview on the CSS website.

  19. #179
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    For context, Gottfried did not make those comments at a press conference or in front of a reporter. The comments were made to the students at the annual "Ram Roast" last night, which is held each year prior to the game with UNC. It being 2012 and all that, one of the students recorded it on his phone and decided it would be a good idea to post it on Facebook. A classic case of "I have met the enemy and it is me". Dumb idea to hang your coach out like that if you ask me.

    I suspect the ACC will reprimand Gottfried which will only make this worse.
    Yes, it is 2012. There is no way Mark Gottfried--who is pretty media savy--could expect to say something like that in a public arena and have it remain private. It's not like he was talking to a couple of his closest friends in his living room. He knew darn well there was no expectation of privacy. Not with that many people with smart phones and Facebook/Twitter accounts.

    He said what he wanted to say.

  20. #180
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    On the couch
    Well if all he said is what was transcribed above, then.. so what? He is disappointed in the ACC's reaction and Karl Hess has rabbitt ears.... not exactly a scathing reaction IMO.

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