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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by arnie is still king View Post
    I suspect Corchiani and Gugs don't even realize what they're yelling half the time - it just becomes mob mentality during the games.
    I've certainly said things during a game I might not have said in other settings. But if my wife and young daughter were next to me it would cause me to self-edit. I assume the same is true for Corchiani and Gugs, so absent any evidence to the contrary, and any history of abusive behavior on thier part, I don't think we should assume they were being profane/racist/overly personal, etc.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by moonpie23 View Post
    can you throw guys out who have jerseys in the rafters?
    I'm only surprised that he didn't also make them remove the jerseys.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    Yes, but Paparo sucked. Or something like that.

    -jk
    Past tense? Tell me Dick retired?

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by bwl5 View Post
    From what I have read and saw on the replay of the incident, Hess is clearly out of line.

    I personally remember saying, ummm, yelling much worse things during my time at Cameron
    sitting behind Dukes bench in the early 80's. Specifically, I told Lenny Wirtz to,......; wait,
    this is a family forum so I won't repeat it. Lets just say that those who remember Lenny can
    probably fill in the blanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddy View Post
    I expect the ACC will try to skate on this, but these are not just two slubs who got tanked up and were out of line. I think there will have to be more.
    That's what so surprising to me here, when I was a student I normally sat in the front row directly behind the scorer's table (its the "non-tv side" so everyone else would go to the otherside and it was very easy to get front row, dead center). I sat (stood) there probably 20-30 times and wouldn't dare repeat some of the things I said to the refs from the front row after 4-5 hours of waiting in line with my dear friend Busch Light. I was never thrown out. Maybe its b/c I was a student and so I was one of one-thousand saying basically the same things, but I imagine anything I said would have been 5-10x worse anything those guys said with their daughters next to them.

    This reminds me a lot of the Joey Crawford incident a few years ago with Tim Duncan. Crawford is considered a solid NBA ref and was suspended indefinitely, though he obviously returned and continues to do a solid job. Hess is not nearly the ref Crawford is, so will be interesting to see what happens. I'm sure it will depend on how big a stink Debbie & State make, but I assume it will be sizable. Really interested to watch this play out.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    What a Hess (!!!)
    I think Bob may have come up with the perfect chant to unite the Crazies and Crusties at the next Hess-ian game in Cameron.

    Does anyone else just love it when Karl hitches up his trousers when he is being reviled by the crowd? It's so adorable!

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Virginia Beach
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    Here is a nice article on the game and the incident:

    http://www.indyweek.com/triangleoffe...wolfpack-76-62

    The Independent Weekly sports blog (Triangle Offense) provides excellent coverage of ACC basketball.
    Thank you for that link to a well written article. I love this, the penultimate paragaph:

    Facing the grim duty of reporting the Wolfpack’s ineptness, journalists consumed the event like manna from writer’s heaven. While a referee perhaps outstepping his authority and running roughshod over a school’s sporting legends in the process is a worthwhile story, its salaciousness not only deflects attention from N.C. State’s woeful effort and chronic shortcomings, but it also feeds the impulse among fans and conspiracy theorists alike to arrogate excuses in lieu of confronting causes.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    I think a lot of these issues are created because refs are allowing too much physical play, and this is an example.

    I've railed on this before.
    A foul is a foul is a foul. Call the ";/-!" fouls. They are not that hard to see. Hess or any other ref shouldn't inject themselves into "managing" the game. That's on the players by simply not fouling.

    Let stuff go and games get out of control easily. Call a push, call a reach in hack and call the banging....the entire game. I hate games when you hear the refs "let 'em play".

    If players don't adjust to not fouling, and wouldn't that be a novel approach, they will find the bench and we'll see who has quality depth. They would stop fouling out of necessity and the game would return to a fluid style that, for me, showcases the beauty of those big athletic guys play and away from the wrestling match the game has often become.

    All that said...I agree Karl Hess should be sanctioned, (from the info I have), for basically a scratch some fans inflicted on his thin skin.
    Well said Wheat! I always translate "let 'em play" to "let 'em cheat". There was a time when letting a game be more physical always worked against Duke (or so it seemed to me) and I think K has adjusted over the years to be more physical. The NCAA tournament that we won in 2010 was incredibly physical. I loved winning, I would have preferred that we won 81-79 instead of 61-59. It has bothered me when people have said "they called the game evenly" and I'd reply with "they didn't call anything which allowed a lesser team to play even with a better team". We were usually the better team.

    As for Gugs ad Corch, I'd love to know exactly what they said because it's pretty surprising to see them get singled out.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by dalmatians98 View Post
    Thank you for that link to a well written article. I love this, the penultimate paragaph:
    indyweek has the best basketball writers around. All of them are good, but Adam Sosbey is amazing.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by weezie View Post
    I think Bob may have come up with the perfect chant to unite the Crazies and Crusties at the next Hess-ian game in Cameron.
    I'd love to take credit, but "What a Hess..." is the title of the article I linked so credit has to go to author Neil Morris.
    Bob Green
    United States Navy (Retired)
    @JBobGreen

  10. #70
    I wish The Playcaller would come back and give us his/her insights into yesterday's affair.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer's Daddy View Post
    Lenny was the Wirtz.

    Lenny was a decent ref in a meaningless game with no crowd and no drama.

    But as soon as a game got spirited, or a crowd got loud, Lenny became a "cheerleader in stripes" for whichever team he was pulling for. It could have been the visitor or the home team.

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New Jersey
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    Yes, but Paparo sucked. Or something like that.

    -jk
    For those of you too young to remember, the Dick Paparo cheer went "You s*ck, Dick", although we didn't necessarily pause at the comma.
    Rich
    Cameron Crazies Do Not Storm The Court

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by cameroncrazy3104 View Post
    It is amazing to me how the ACC has two of the worst refs I have ever seen, Karl Hess and Jamie Luckie
    This compares the two: http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/co...=blowout#chart

    They both average about 35 fouls called a game, but interesting enough they do not seem to favor the home or away team when it comes to foul difference.

    Something else that is interesting, in close games Hess calls a lot more fouls than he does in blowouts. As compared to Luckie who calls about 35 no matter what the score.
    Never saw that website before! Great find!
    Gotta agree, Hess and Luckie have got to be least consistent refs currently working. And what's worse, like the legendary Lenny Wirtz, they LIVE to make the marginal (or wrong) call to change a game. You seem to ALWAYS know when they are working a game, and that's not what a ref should do. The refs should be anonymous.

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    For those of you too young to remember, the Dick Paparo cheer went "You s*ck, Dick", although we didn't necessarily pause at the comma.
    Not quite. It started as "Dick, you suck!" Then the students sped it up. Rather predictably.

    -jk

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by diveonthefloor View Post
    Lenny was a decent ref in a meaningless game with no crowd and no drama.

    But as soon as a game got spirited, or a crowd got loud, Lenny became a "cheerleader in stripes" for whichever team he was pulling for. It could have been the visitor or the home team.
    By "visitor or the home team," you mean Carolina, right?

    '>)
    "What, me worry?" -- Roy Williams

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    Not quite. It started as "Dick, you suck!" Then the students sped it up. Rather predictably.

    -jk
    Then when Coach K objected, it became, "You suck, Richard!"

  17. #77

    Hess or Valentine?

    So who do you guys think is the worst ref right now...Hess or Valentine? I know every time I go to a game and see that Valentine is reffing I shudder. I went to the Duke Gonzaga game at MSG the year after Redick and Morrison left. There was a fan on the front row yelling at Valentine and as soon as Valentine was right in front of him he turned around and told him to shut up, as a play was happening right in front of him. I'll never forget how unprofessional he was.

  18. #78
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Louisville, Ky
    Quote Originally Posted by dev11 View Post
    after halftime of the 82-50 game, i saw a security guard in cameron make christian laettner throw out the bud light he brought into the gym from a reception they were having in one of the side hallways. That's basically the same thing, right?
    laettner shouldn't have even been in the arena, man! He stomped his previous beer can! He should have been ejected for that crap!

  19. #79
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    West CIS

    Toss up!

    Quote Originally Posted by nolan8or View Post
    So who do you guys think is the worst ref right now...Hess or Valentine? I know every time I go to a game and see that Valentine is reffing I shudder. I went to the Duke Gonzaga game at MSG the year after Redick and Morrison left. There was a fan on the front row yelling at Valentine and as soon as Valentine was right in front of him he turned around and told him to shut up, as a play was happening right in front of him. I'll never forget how unprofessional he was.
    I really do try to stay away from the whole reffing discussions, it can be so frustrating!
    i.e. I never said a word about the 2nd half no call on the Barnes charge , when he put his shoulder down and plowed! Just sayin I never brought it up!

    But this is a much different story, Hess is there to call the game (impartialy), how can that happen when he is so self absorbed in himself and /or action off the court, when his focus is not on the game! Inefficiencies,possibly bias's tend to "inadvertently" creep in!

    Personally, I always enjoyed people that didn't take themselves too seriously!
    Hess doesn't qualify!

    The ACC, must initiate some formal response!
    Let's go DUKE !!!!

  20. #80

    Hess

    I think you guys ought to give poor Karl Hess a break.

    It's a well established fact that when you go blind, your other senses improve to compensate. For somebody as blind as Hess, his hearing must be superhuman. Corchiani and Gugliotta may not have shouted anything nasty, but I bet they were muttering under their breath.

    Seriously, this incident makes me recall that Corchiani was the victim of one of the worst calls -- and most important bad calls at that -- in ACC history. in 1989, NC State was playing top seeded Georgetown in the Sweet 16. The Pack was rallying back and were on the verge of tying the game. Corchiani drove and dished inside to a teammate who converted the game-tying basket as he was fouled by Alonzo Morning -- his 5th foul. But, NO, Rick Hartzell comes racing in and overrules the ref who called the foul on Morning and says that Corchiani traveled before oaking the feed.

    It was an absurd call and cost State the game (Duke took care of Georgetown two days later). The funny thing is that Hartzell as an ACC ref and remained one long enough to precipitate one of the great screwups in ACC history -- the mismanaged ice game at Virginia in 1997 (his mistakes worked in Duke's favor in that one). That one earned him a suspension from the ACC ... the Corchiani screwup only earned him infamy from a generation of ACC fans.

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