Vinokourov quits tour

[Windsor]

I like watching cycling...I really do...but the constant parade of blood doping/steriod using/performance inhancing idiots is really getting old. I was routing for Vino in the time trial and was thrilled that he won the stage yesterday...and today he's gone...I know there are some cycling fans on this list so I ask, is there any hope of fixing this sport?

[mapei]

It's hard for me even to talk about it. I honestly think the sport should be shut down for a period of time, at least a year. And there should be some sort of amnesty in exchange for truth. And the rules need to be made more realistic and probably some forms of what is now considered doping to be made legal.

Anyone who thinks that Americans, or their favorite riders, or whoever, is exempt is being really naive. Only the unlucky get caught. It's beyond depressing. Of course, that is true for other sports, too, and cycling is in part a victim of its own efforts to enforce its rules.

At this point, I don't care if the sponsors go away. They should. Shut it down and rebuild.

[MulletMan]

I am actually ill about this. What's really sad is that last night, as I watched the tape of the race, not knowing that he had won, I was upset with myself for thinking, "Damn... this is just like Landis after he got blown off the mountain last year. I bet people will say that Vino probably doped to do this."

And he did. Not only did he, apparently dope, but he did it in one of the most "catchable" ways. And not only that, but the whole damn team pulled out of the race. It makes me think that he got caught because the whole team was doing it and he got the wrong bag of blood (FTR, the lab says that they found 2 different types of red blood cells in his sample).

Sickening. Just sickening. Read what David Millar said on VeloNews.

[Cavlaw]

I saw Millar's comment and thought pretty much the same thing. Vino has been one of my favorites for years, and I remember thinking he would be the next great one while I was watching him during Lance's farewell tour.

[TNTDevil]

Vino was my man! Damn.

And this just after Kazakh Railways (road?) had announced it's intentions to sponsor Astana for 10 more years based on Vino's TT performance.

I feel like crying.

[cato]

I am actually ill about this. What's really sad is that last night, as I watched the tape of the race, not knowing that he had won, I was upset with myself for thinking, "Damn... this is just like Landis after he got blown off the mountain last year. I bet people will say that Vino probably doped to do this."

Geez. That would be a pretty naive thing for someone to say.

[Windsor]

It really is heartbreaking...it seems that everyone who excels in cycling gets caught doping in some flavor or another (except apparently Lance...who is perhaps just smarter than the rest at not getting caught?)

So the million dollar question(s) - is the doping in cycling indicative of the level of doping going on in all pro sports and the cycling world tests more so they catch more... or is it the nature\lenght\difficulty of the TdF that has led to a 'you must cheat to win' mentality?

[mapei]

I have to admit that one of my early thoughts (after the sheer joy of watching Vino win yesterday) was "hmmm, I wonder if he knows Floyd's doctor?"

Vino has been the most exciting racer of his generation, immensely fun to watch and root for. Who (assuming you follow the sport) can forget when he won Paris-Nice in tears carrying the photo of his dear friend Kivilev, who died just a few days earlier? But, let's face it, when genuinely nice guys like Hamilton and Basso can get caught up in it, you know the situation is pervasive.

And I had my own best ride of the year yesterday, too.

[Windsor]

I have to admit that one of my early thoughts (after the sheer joy of watching Vino win yesterday) was "hmmm, I wonder if he knows Floyd's doctor?"
And I had my own best ride of the year yesterday, too.

Best ride eh? Do you know Floyd's doctor?

[mapei]

It really is heartbreaking...it seems that everyone who excels in cycling gets caught doping in some flavor or another (except apparently Lance...who is perhaps just smarter than the rest at not getting caught?)

So the million dollar question(s) - is the doping in cycling indicative of the level of doping going on in all pro sports and the cycling world tests more so they catch more... or is it the nature\lenght\difficulty of the TdF that has led to a 'you must cheat to win' mentality?

Actually, I think most of them don't get caught. And many of those who have been caught were caught outside the system, not by in-competition testing but by hospital records, police raids, cars routinely stopped going over borders, and association with questionable doctors. Given that the performance enhancers work, are reasonably safe to use, and seldom get detected, and riders generally have few employment or income options, the system practically begs for the use of substances or blood (or oxygen-deprivation tents, which are legal but shouldn't be if the other methods aren't).

I do think cycling is a PR victim of its own aggressive enforcement compared to other sports. Compare pro football, for instance. But I also think the sport makes such incredible demands on the human body over the course of a 3-week race (and over a season), that the riders need assistance. And, once you think your competition is doing it, you're almost a fool if you don't.

[mapei]

Best ride eh? Do you know Floyd's doctor?

My Clif Bar was spiked.

[Lavabe]

Okay... that was a body blow today, and I'm over the phase of being sick and angry over it. I am now in the bewildered phase. Yet I still want to see tomorrow's stage.

Vino's up-and-down performances in three races caught everyone's attention. The VeloNews article with Millar points to a couple of teammates who also aroused suspicions. Team Astana had to pull out.
Meanwhile we all wonder about Rasmussen, the current overall leader:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...934/index.html
I am also reminding myself that a decision on Landis is due sometime soon.
On the other hand, Giro d'Italia stage winner Petacchi was cleared of his positive drug tests:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/SPORT/07/24/...petacchi.reut/

I don't see that these events are unlike those experienced in other sports, including NBA, MLB, NFL, IAAF (athletics), Olympics, and football (soccer). Perhaps a stand-down of a year (as mapei suggests) might work, but I don't see that it offers a guarantee. It also penalizes the riders who are actually following the rules. That leads to the one question that most concerns me:

To what extent have anti-doping efforts changed the percentage of dopers in the sport?

If it hasn't made a dent, then I guess I am in favor of all of mapei's suggestions. However, I sense that a dent has been made. If the testing methods improve in accuracy, reliability, and administration, the sport should continue without a stand down. My gut sense is that we are in a huge weeding out phase. Hopefully in three years or so, the sport will have had a major transformation.

The events will not stop me from watching Contador & Evans nail Rasmussen tomorrow. Actually, I am now more confused as to what happens to results in stages 14 & 15. It should spark a few discussions on tomorrow's stage coverage.

Cheers,
Lavabe

[mapei]

Fair points, but:

>To what extent have anti-doping efforts changed the percentage of dopers in the sport?

>If it hasn't made a dent, then I guess I am in favor of all of mapei's suggestions. However, I sense that a dent has been made.

I don't think a "dent" is enough to restore the sport's credibility. And, unfortunately, the way the issue is being dealt with now is sort of like enacting mandatory sentencing laws and putting more cops on the street without dealing with the root causes of crime. Now, maybe the sport doesn't have to be shut down (though I think it couldn't hurt), but there needs to be a very different approach, and a much deeper understanding of what's going on and why.

And yeah, I'll probably watch tomorrow, too.

[DukieInKansas]

I was disappointed to hear of the positive A test. I'll wait for the B results before writing Vino off completely. I sure wish the Tour had followed the lead of the French Open and switched labs this year. I have absolutely no confidence in the current lab - too many deviations from standard procedures over the past few years to suit me. I would also like to see the B sample tested at a second lab - no matter which lab they use for the A samples.

And yes, I will be watching tomorrow. Hope springs eternal that the majority of riders are clean.

[MulletMan]

The events will not stop me from watching ... Evans nail Rasmussen tomorrow.

Cheers,
Lavabe

Are you Phil Liggett? I love how much her roots for Evans... not just this year, but for like, I don't know... the past 4 years. Evans is his BOY! And he gets so damn excited about it. Love it!

I am working from home right now waiting for Lowe's to deliver our replacement grill. S'cool though, 'cause I'm watching the stage. Exciting stuff and still an HC to the finish!

[gus]

(except apparently Lance...who is perhaps just smarter than the rest at not getting caught?)

At this point, with how, um, flexible, labs have been, and how determined the French have been to get Lance... the fact that they've failed would indicate to me that it's unlikely Lance cheated.

[Lavabe]

Are you Phil Liggett? I love how much her roots for Evans... not just this year, but for like, I don't know... the past 4 years. Evans is his BOY! And he gets so damn excited about it. Love it!

I am working from home right now waiting for Lowe's to deliver our replacement grill. S'cool though, 'cause I'm watching the stage. Exciting stuff and still an HC to the finish!

Evans' time trial was solid. I'm pulling for anyone who has a chance to beat Rasmussen. I didn't like him last year, and I didn't like him the year before. Julich has also written some criticism of Rasmussen. I am also pulling for Contador (young, how he raced against Rasmussen the last few stages). As for my daughter, she's pulling for anyone wearing shark helmets in the time trials!

Having said that, today's HC finish was compelling. Wonder if the VS power failure at the top was related to the naked guy who was streaking alongside today's front riders!

I missed the opening five minutes when all the commentators talked about Vino and Rasmussen. I barely caught the highlight of the protest at the start. What happened?

Cheers,
Lavabe

[Cavlaw]

WOW was today a great race. I worked long into the AM last night, so decided to watch the end of the stage and come to the office late. I was not disappointed in that decision.

I was pulling for Discovery, as I always do, but Rasmussen was just unbelievable!

[Lavabe]

Team Cofidis has quit the tour after one of their riders tested positive for non-natural, administered testosterone. The rider will not wait for the B sample.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ap/index.html

The fans were booing Rasmussen at the start of today's race. Got to see the protest that many of the teams made in the start.

Umm ... ETA had a device go off today near the Spanish portion of today's race. I could swear I saw a series of ETA chalkings on the race course.

Also, Vino now claims that he never doped, but will not pursue proving his innocence.

Cheers,
Lavabe