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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, VA

    MBB: Duke vs Wake Forest Pre-Game and In-Game Thread

    The game tips-off tomorrow at 7:02 pm. Here are links to the game notes and full game notes at GoDuke.com:

    http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.db...DB_OEM_ID=4200

    https://www.nmnathletics.com//pdf8/8...DB_OEM_ID=4200

    Vegas odds have opened with Duke a 22.5 points favorite and the over/under set at 146:

    http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-...-vegas/?s=2166

    We should be looking for a final score in the neighborhood of 85-62.
    Bob Green
    United States Navy (Retired)
    @JBobGreen

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area
    Well, the uva final score missed Vegas by a good bit. But I'm always hopeful. Not quite "Ozzietomistic," but hopeful. (I was permanently scarred in the early 70's. Gone in 17 seconds and all that.)

    -jk

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    How bad (or good) is Wake this year? They must be better than the Wake of last year, but that's like saying that McCants had a better NBA career than Sean May...
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Norfolk, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    How bad (or good) is Wake this year?
    According to the ACC Sports Journal, Wake is the worst team in the ACC:

    http://www.accsports.com/articles/20...ngs-jan-16.php
    Bob Green
    United States Navy (Retired)
    @JBobGreen

  5. #5

    Things to watch for

    We should be well favored against Wake, especially at home. Rather than watch for the score, or how much we win by, etc. I would be looking for how we continue with the improvement areas. In my view, these are:

    1. Getting started with intensity. We certainly are having a lot of games where we don't seem to come alive for the first 5 or 10 minutes into the game. To me, Mason is a slow starter and seems to catch fire later on in the game. To beat the better teams, we will need to learn to come out with intensity.
    2. Will Quinn continue his solid PG play. If Quinn starts, it might help us get off a little better, since he is unlikely to have the turnovers early on. He can also set up some plays inside to get our bigs going.
    3. Will Austin get his offensive game going more smoothly. Clearly he is in the adjustment process, finding what works and what doesn't at the ACC level. With so much skill and desire, I expect him to break out of his scoring slowdown. My view is that he has to ask himself "what is the best way for the team to score" rather than "how do I score" to make that kind of improvement. Less turnovers, more team offensive efficiency.
    4. Will Mason continue his free throw shooting improvement that he showed against Clemson. While no one can expect lights out 100 % shooting, I would be satisfied if he could hit 2/3s of his FTs.
    5. Finally, will Andre continue to return from his disappearing act and provide offensive points going forward? He can be such a weapon, we really need him to get double figures on a regular basis.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Nashville
    Quote Originally Posted by Saratoga2 View Post
    We should be well favored against Wake, especially at home. Rather than watch for the score, or how much we win by, etc. I would be looking for how we continue with the improvement areas. In my view, these are:

    1. Getting started with intensity. We certainly are having a lot of games where we don't seem to come alive for the first 5 or 10 minutes into the game. To me, Mason is a slow starter and seems to catch fire later on in the game. To beat the better teams, we will need to learn to come out with intensity.
    2. Will Quinn continue his solid PG play. If Quinn starts, it might help us get off a little better, since he is unlikely to have the turnovers early on. He can also set up some plays inside to get our bigs going.
    3. Will Austin get his offensive game going more smoothly. Clearly he is in the adjustment process, finding what works and what doesn't at the ACC level. With so much skill and desire, I expect him to break out of his scoring slowdown. My view is that he has to ask himself "what is the best way for the team to score" rather than "how do I score" to make that kind of improvement. Less turnovers, more team offensive efficiency.
    4. Will Mason continue his free throw shooting improvement that he showed against Clemson. While no one can expect lights out 100 % shooting, I would be satisfied if he could hit 2/3s of his FTs.
    5. Finally, will Andre continue to return from his disappearing act and provide offensive points going forward? He can be such a weapon, we really need him to get double figures on a regular basis.

    Great points. I would also add the perimeter rotation to things to keep an eye on. As Tommy's excellent stats have indicated as well as K's own desire to return more frequently to the Seth, Andre, Austin backcourt, our defense seems to be at it's best with those three on the court. Many believe, as do I, that for this season the degree of success of these three on the court together is a major component in determining how far the team can go. If Andre can continue his strong play, it makes it easier to keep this lineup on the floor. It also makes our size disadvantage on the perimeter less of an issue. Quinn and Tyler have a lot to offer. Certainly a fast paced attack led by Quinn is appealing as is the defensive intensity Tyler brings. However, there are many things to love about the lineup that started the season and I hope that those three can continue their strong play.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by Saratoga2 View Post
    3. Will Austin get his offensive game going more smoothly. Clearly he is in the adjustment process, finding what works and what doesn't at the ACC level. With so much skill and desire, I expect him to break out of his scoring slowdown. My view is that he has to ask himself "what is the best way for the team to score" rather than "how do I score" to make that kind of improvement. Less turnovers, more team offensive efficiency.
    Two things that I've seen Austin do that are correctable -

    First, he occasionally dribbles too high, allowing defenders more room to swipe at the unprotected ball. I think he does it leading up to a jump-stop sometimes and if he tries to turn a corner or split defenders other times. If he can avoid high dribbles and keep the ball lower then he'll protect the ball more.

    Second, Austin is a little too casual at taking his two steps and going up for his shot and it allows the ball to be stripped. He could stand to tuck the ball in like a running back once he's committed to getting to the rim. I've seen other players do this in the past, putting a second hand on the ball or cuffing the ball in order to prevent a strip while jumping towards the rim. I think this is what Jay Bilas' is referring to as "being strong with the ball".

    He's improved at keeping his head up and finding a shooter and I hope to see him continue to look for the floater on occasion too. Austin is definitely still on the learning curve when it comes to decision making and protecting the ball.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    Two things that I've seen Austin do that are correctable -

    First, he occasionally dribbles too high, allowing defenders more room to swipe at the unprotected ball. I think he does it leading up to a jump-stop sometimes and if he tries to turn a corner or split defenders other times. If he can avoid high dribbles and keep the ball lower then he'll protect the ball more.

    Second, Austin is a little too casual at taking his two steps and going up for his shot and it allows the ball to be stripped. He could stand to tuck the ball in like a running back once he's committed to getting to the rim. I've seen other players do this in the past, putting a second hand on the ball or cuffing the ball in order to prevent a strip while jumping towards the rim. I think this is what Jay Bilas' is referring to as "being strong with the ball".

    He's improved at keeping his head up and finding a shooter and I hope to see him continue to look for the floater on occasion too. Austin is definitely still on the learning curve when it comes to decision making and protecting the ball.
    Good observations superdave. I think Austin or any guard that is able to get to the rim should take a look at Kyrie's ability to finish strong. He's taken that ability to the next level against even tougher play. Sometimes he would tuck the ball and other times he somehow got the ball in the basket by using his strength. But it could be that strength is not quite there for Austin yet. Another reason for coming back to Duke next year. GoDuke!

  9. #9

    identity

    Thought I'd return to this post from the Clemson thread, as it seems a good question that didn't get much of an answer in the couple of days after that game.

    Quote Originally Posted by -bdbd View Post
    From those who watched [the Clemson game], do you get the impression that this team is continuing to progress and "find themselves" as the season progresses? Honestly, I'm looking for that "identity progress" thing as much as I am for big wins at this point of the season...
    Now might be a good time to think about the team's identity, as we get 2 games in 48 hours. Maybe this won't be a full test, as Wake and FSU are both home games, but still, by Sat eve the Devils will have played 5 conference games.

    I suppose, early on, the Maui tourney performance led us to think that this would be a reasonably fluid, tough team that would be exciting to watch. This Maui tourney seemed special, with an absolutely rousing atmosphere for the final. Ryan was Maui MVP, Mason played superbly against Robinson in the final, Andre, Seth, and Austin had good moments, and of course Tyler capped it off. As I say, exciting, even joyful performances.

    Since then, mostly good, a little bad, but a lot more inconsistency - for almost all players and the team generally - than the Maui games might seem to have predicted. Mason has perhaps been our most consistent player, not dominant exactly, but dependable. Has any of Seth, Austin, Ryan, Andre put together 3 good games to start conference play? OTOH, in the first 3 ACC games, at least 3 of our 8-rotation have had good games.

    Still, the puzzling issue of "identity progress." Perhaps Duke has not progressed as much as the joyfulness of Maui promised. And maybe identity is tough to pin down, if almost every player is somewhat inconsistent - really good, then not so much, then another guy steps up, then another, but not the same 3 guys every game. Or maybe the team's identity isn't tied to some threesome-consistency, but to team depth, Mason's emergence, Quinn's arrival, Miles's strong rebounding and hustle-injection, and the still-consistent-enough 4-tandem-3-bombers. I'd claim, too, that this is a shot-blocking team. Part of our hidden identity.

    On his TV show last Sat, K stated: "The 2 keys for our team this year are the evolution of our junior class, and their setting the standard for the big freshman class." Not sure whether this evolution is yet definable. I guess the identity is still a "work in progress." Maybe we'll be able to see it by Sat eve. Or not, even if we win both games.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by Saratoga2 View Post
    If Quinn starts, it might help us get off a little better, since he is unlikely to have the turnovers early on.
    Well, Quinn started against Clemson, and he contributed to our slow start by turning it over 21 seconds into the game, so he's not a panacea. I think defensive intensity at the outset is the key, both in the beginning of the game and the rest of it. Though the items on your list are certainly worth watching, I'd put defense at the top of any list of things to look for in any Duke game this season.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    Mason has perhaps been our most consistent player, not dominant exactly, but dependable. Has any of Seth, Austin, Ryan, Andre put together 3 good games to start conference play? OTOH, in the first 3 ACC games, at least 3 of our 8-rotation have had good games.
    There's a difference between good games and great games. I think Seth has had three pretty good games. I think Ryan, Andre, Miles, and Quinn have all had at least two good games out of three. I think Tyler has done exactly what he was supposed to do (play pesky defense). So really, the inconsistency in conference play has all been Austin, and as a freshman with a ton of expectations on him, we should expect some inconsistency.

    As far as the elusive "identity," I believe the only identity we're lacking is a defensive identity. Once the team begins to gel on defense and consistently bring defensive intensity, this sort of conversation won't be needed anymore.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Wow, no one has posted about this game since 1pm today???

    We're having a shaky start but a 3-point lead as of now . . .
    Quel est si drole de la paix, de l'amour, et de la comprehension?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Dawkins!

    (might as well talk to myself in here)
    Quel est si drole de la paix, de l'amour, et de la comprehension?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Decatur, GA
    A few early TOs, but they seem to be playing with some intensity - not like they can just sit back, relax, and put a W in the column.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Kelly is playing really well tonight.
    Quel est si drole de la paix, de l'amour, et de la comprehension?

  16. #16
    For those interested, live tempo-based stats for the game here, we recently upgraded our server so any slowness with the site that you may have experienced should now be resolved.

    http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame...Schedule=10522
    Follow SCACCHoops.com on Twitter and Facebook!

    Check out our NCAA Scoreboard featuring live tempo-based stats.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Decatur, GA
    At some point, Wake may figure out that Dawkins is just hanging around the 3 pt line, and actually put someone on him. Until then, just keep putting up and sinking those unguarded 3s!

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC
    wow - 3 fouls on Curry?
    Quel est si drole de la paix, de l'amour, et de la comprehension?

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Wow, Andre!
    Quel est si drole de la paix, de l'amour, et de la comprehension?

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio

    Andre

    Man I like it when Andre smiles like that - keep knockin' em down.

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