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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    Let's see ... JJ Redick was a two-time concensus first-team All-American, the consensus national player of the year as a senior. He was two-time ACC player of the year and played on one Final Four team and three ACC championship teams (twice, he was Tournament MVP and should have been a third time). The Black Falcon was never a first-team All-American, never a blip on the national player of the year radar, never a candidate for ACC POY and never played in the Final Four or on an ACC championship team.

    And, oh yes, Redick was 6-3 against his biggest rival ... Barnes was 2-3 against Duke.

    Yeah, I can see why a Carolina fan would like to link the two of them ...
    For the win!

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by moonpie23 View Post
    whoa. did u just compare the fallen pigeon to JJ freaking redick?
    I loathe Barnes, but I don't really think that the guy was trying to make a comparison that equated the basketball skills or careers of the two. I read it to say that Barnes's crappy end run didn't mean that he wasn't a solid basketball player most of the time, just like JJ's disappointing finish didn't mean he wasn't one of the greatest college basketball players ever.

  3. #43
    I hope Roy made the "we thought about cutting the nets in Cameron" comment as a joke to get the crowd laughing. If he was serious, I would have loved to of seen them try that in Cameron. There would have been riots and I would have gladly joined in.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by nolan8or View Post
    I hope Roy made the "we thought about cutting the nets in Cameron" comment as a joke to get the crowd laughing. If he was serious, I would have loved to of seen them try that in Cameron. There would have been riots and I would have gladly joined in.
    In fairness to Roy and gladly not being there, I think that was most likely his intent. One may even argue that it was his intent to amuse the audience with this comments about K and Duke concerning Mason and the Zeller. That being said, imo Roy should not have made those comments in public. It just makes him look really bad. In fact, I saw comments from the CBSsports article that was linked on the front page of DBR, and even KY fans were appalled at the comments Roy said, especially in regards to contemplating the cutting down of the nets at Cameron for a regular season championship.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Stealth View Post
    I loathe Barnes, but I don't really think that the guy was trying to make a comparison that equated the basketball skills or careers of the two. I read it to say that Barnes's crappy end run didn't mean that he wasn't a solid basketball player most of the time, just like JJ's disappointing finish didn't mean he wasn't one of the greatest college basketball players ever.
    Thank you kind sir. And to think I was beginning to doubt the reading comprehension of my darker-blue friends.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    ELEVEN trips to Ames? Aren't there restrictions regarding recruiting contacts?

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Tampa
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    Let's see ... JJ Redick was a two-time concensus first-team All-American, the consensus national player of the year as a senior. He was two-time ACC player of the year and played on one Final Four team and three ACC championship teams (twice, he was Tournament MVP and should have been a third time). The Black Falcon was never a first-team All-American, never a blip on the national player of the year radar, never a candidate for ACC POY and never played in the Final Four or on an ACC championship team.

    And, oh yes, Redick was 6-3 against his biggest rival ... Barnes was 2-3 against Duke.

    Yeah, I can see why a Carolina fan would like to link the two of them ...
    He was actually 2 time National Player of the Year. He won the Rupp award in 2005, which is one of the 6 major NPOY awards.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    Let's see ... JJ Redick was a two-time concensus first-team All-American, the consensus national player of the year as a senior. He was two-time ACC player of the year and played on one Final Four team and three ACC championship teams (twice, he was Tournament MVP and should have been a third time). The Black Falcon was never a first-team All-American, never a blip on the national player of the year radar, never a candidate for ACC POY and never played in the Final Four or on an ACC championship team.

    And, oh yes, Redick was 6-3 against his biggest rival ... Barnes was 2-3 against Duke.

    Yeah, I can see why a Carolina fan would like to link the two of them ...
    Redick shot 4-12, 4-14, and 3-18 in the last game of his sophomore through senior years, each of which was a number 1 seed Duke losing to a higher seed. He averaged almost 27 points a game his senior year and scored 11 in his final game. Gethlives' point is that, just as most Duke fans do not define Redick by his sub-par performances in those games, most UNC fans do not define Barnes simply as the guy who couldn't get it done when Marshall went down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    Fair point, but at the end of the day he will be remembered more for what he did not do vs what he did do in terms of performance on the court. In terms of off the court, he will be remembered as a kid with a destructive ego, inflated sense of self worth, and borderline embarrassment to the program. The UNC fans already have turned on him.
    I'd say Newton accurately describes how Barnes' will be remembered.. on Duke message boards. Yes, some UNC fans, myself included, find Barnes' open discussion of his brand off-putting. I wish a parent or older relative would step in and talk a little sense into him. And, yes, a distaste about his brand talk combined with disappointment about the way the season turned out has led a few too many UNC fans' to direct undue ire toward Barnes. But to say that he will be remembered as a borderline embarrassment to the program? Please. The vast majority of UNC fans respect Barnes for a variety of reasons including his accomplishments and conduct on the court, decision to return when he was clearly a lottery pick, and the fact that he was by all accounts a good teammate- both when he was struggling and tearing it up. If you want a summary of a UNC fan's perspective, here: we wish this season had turned out differently, but we're glad Barnes is a part of the UNC family and wish him well in the NBA.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Stealth View Post
    Mocking the ego element has caused people to look at him as more of a basketball disappointment than he actually was....
    It seems obvious - but maybe isn't, so let me know - that Barnes was in fact something of a disappointment as a player, for reasons noted by several posters in this thread. Whether he was a big disappointment is debatable. I think he was, and am happy that he was, as that was a factor in the Heels' failure to get to the FF in either of his 2 years in CH.

    One weird question: Did someone post earlier today [Friday morn, I guess] some quotations from Roy Williams on what kind of player Barnes would be in the NBA? If this question seems strange, well, what do you expect? Perhaps, or probably, I'm hallucinating, but I swear somewhere today I've read such comments, which, in the event, were not entirely flattering. So I'm wondering whether an earlier post was removed, maybe for including info from a pay site, or even for making up stuff.

    So, some kindly mod, please respond by choosing either:
    (a) Yes, there was such a post, and we removed it.
    (b) You're hallucinating.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoHeel View Post
    Redick shot 4-12, 4-14, and 3-18 in the last game of his sophomore through senior years, each of which was a number 1 seed Duke losing to a higher seed. He averaged almost 27 points a game his senior year and scored 11 in his final game. Gethlives' point is that, just as most Duke fans do not define Redick by his sub-par performances in those games, most UNC fans do not define Barnes simply as the guy who couldn't get it done when Marshall went down.



    I'd say Newton accurately describes how Barnes' will be remembered.. on Duke message boards. Yes, some UNC fans, myself included, find Barnes' open discussion of his brand off-putting. I wish a parent or older relative would step in and talk a little sense into him. And, yes, a distaste about his brand talk combined with disappointment about the way the season turned out has led a few too many UNC fans' to direct undue ire toward Barnes. But to say that he will be remembered as a borderline embarrassment to the program? Please. The vast majority of UNC fans respect Barnes for a variety of reasons including his accomplishments and conduct on the court, decision to return when he was clearly a lottery pick, and the fact that he was by all accounts a good teammate- both when he was struggling and tearing it up. If you want a summary of a UNC fan's perspective, here: we wish this season had turned out differently, but we're glad Barnes is a part of the UNC family and wish him well in the NBA.
    I'm by no means an expert in the area of what Carolina fans are thinking......but I would bet that you are a minority when it comes to the opinion of "local" [Triangle] fans in regards to how they feel about HB. I do believe a majority of local UNC fans have negative feelings about HB in terms of not fully living up to the hype and potential. Afterall, he was the one that said he wanted to leave a legacy at Carolina; and didn't do that. And regardless of how Barnes will be viewed on Duke message boards, the fact remains that couldn't/didn't step up when the UNC team needed him most; and as Pro scouts have pointed out, he needs a good PG to set him up properly to be effective. That being said, I wish him the best in the NBA and future endeavors.

    Now, Roy on the otherhand....That's a different story.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    On the couch
    Quote Originally Posted by gethlives View Post
    I agree that many Carolina fans have turned on Barnes, a fact that this Carolina fan finds incredibly disappointing. In the mind of this Carolina fan, Harrison Barnes was an incredibly hard working, well-spoken, nice kid (he was wonderful at a clinic I took my son too earlier in the year) who happened also to be a great basketball player. He represented the program with class and I know will continue to do so for years in the NBA. An embarrassment to the program? I'd take many more Harrison Barnes to come through Chapel Hill. Should he have been named first team all ACC ahead of Kendall--no. Was he obviously #6 yes.

    I know we live in a black and white world where if you aren't amazing you suck, but the attitude to Barnes has gotten out of hand. Yes he had an awful two final games. JJ Reddick shot, I believe about 30% in his final two tournament losses--doesn't mean he wasn't one of Duke's best players of all time.

    Also, note that vitriol coming to Barnes from Duke fans is fine--your biggest rival should have nothing but disdain for players who wear opposing uniforms. I find the attitude of Carolina fans towards him disgusting, as I'm sure a lot of you found attitudes of your fellow fans towards people like Shavlik Randolph who were considered disappointing or people like Will Avery who left before they were deemed ready.
    First bolded part, simply not true. There is no evidence that HB was an incredibly hard worker on his game. If he was we would have expected to see improvement. There was no improvement in his two years, so why assume that he worked hard? Because Roy said he worked hard?

    Second bolded parth, not true some players are good to average. In fact most are. Barnes did not suck except in relation to the expectations the media and he created for himself. He was sold as the best freshman to ever play the game before taking a shot (only preseason Frosh AA) and he seemed more concerned about his image than his actual play based on a call to Jeff Goodman.

    Barnes did not suck. He was a good to better than average player with multiple flaws in his game that did not improve over two years in the UNC system under Roy. The vitriol is if that is what it is push back due to the amount of manure that has been shoveled our way about the Ames Iowa savior.

    Glad he is gone and I suspect will never be heard from again.... another NBA 5 minute a game man....

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by oldnavy View Post
    First bolded part, simply not true. There is no evidence that HB was an incredibly hard worker on his game. If he was we would have expected to see improvement. There was no improvement in his two years, so why assume that he worked hard? Because Roy said he worked hard?
    It wasn't just Roy who said he worked hard--almost every profile of the kid had him spending hours upon hours in the gym working on his game. Obviously you and I disagree on whether that paid off on the court, but don't you think it's possible for someone to work hard and not show improvement?

    I think the criticism about Harrison goes to what the really excellent Tar Heel Blog said in summing up his career at Carolina: "He called his home run shot, and ended up hitting a double." Yes, he came in saying he was going to win a championship and be a national player of the year and yes he fell short, but that doesn't negate his very real accomplishments.

  13. #53

    That's not a bad summary

    Quote Originally Posted by gethlives View Post
    I think the criticism about Harrison goes to what the really excellent Tar Heel Blog said in summing up his career at Carolina: "He called his home run shot, and ended up hitting a double." Yes, he came in saying he was going to win a championship and be a national player of the year and yes he fell short, but that doesn't negate his very real accomplishments.
    However, a guy who expects to be POY as a freshman and admits as much to a sportswriter isn't just calling a homer, he's practically calling a walk off grand slam in the World Series. Nevertheless, he scored 17 PPG IIRC, so that's probably the equivalent of a very respectable double.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by miramar View Post
    However, a guy who expects to be POY as a freshman and admits as much to a sportswriter isn't just calling a homer, he's practically calling a walk off grand slam in the World Series. Nevertheless, he scored 17 PPG IIRC, so that's probably the equivalent of a very respectable double.
    Still a pretty generous assessment for a one-dimensional volume jump shooter that didn't come close to breaking 40% 3FG in either of his two years. Let's call it a sharp single up the middle and be done with it.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    Still a pretty generous assessment for a one-dimensional volume jump shooter that didn't come close to breaking 40% 3FG in either of his two years. Let's call it a sharp single up the middle and be done with it.
    Or maybe a sharp single that was reported as a double by lazy sportwriters (and was regarded as a screaming liner that just missed clearing the fence by gethlives and other disciples of the toilet-water blue).

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoHeel View Post
    Redick shot 4-12, 4-14, and 3-18 in the last game of his sophomore through senior years, each of which was a number 1 seed Duke losing to a higher seed. He averaged almost 27 points a game his senior year and scored 11 in his final game. Gethlives' point is that, just as most Duke fans do not define Redick by his sub-par performances in those games, most UNC fans do not define Barnes simply as the guy who couldn't get it done when Marshall went down.



    I'd say Newton accurately describes how Barnes' will be remembered.. on Duke message boards. Yes, some UNC fans, myself included, find Barnes' open discussion of his brand off-putting. I wish a parent or older relative would step in and talk a little sense into him. And, yes, a distaste about his brand talk combined with disappointment about the way the season turned out has led a few too many UNC fans' to direct undue ire toward Barnes. But to say that he will be remembered as a borderline embarrassment to the program? Please. The vast majority of UNC fans respect Barnes for a variety of reasons including his accomplishments and conduct on the court, decision to return when he was clearly a lottery pick, and the fact that he was by all accounts a good teammate- both when he was struggling and tearing it up. If you want a summary of a UNC fan's perspective, here: we wish this season had turned out differently, but we're glad Barnes is a part of the UNC family and wish him well in the NBA.
    Just to clarify, "borderline embarrassment" was a bit of hyperbole, but was 100% in reference to his off court antics, not his on court play. He was a good college player. Just not close to what he and everyone else expected. I do think the stats over the 2 years with and without Kendall are telling though. Skype hype and spurning Duke aside, I honestly thought the guy was going to be a dominant player that would challenge for NPOY. Why that did not happen is in fact puzzling. I don't get it to be quite honest.

    One of the more mysterious players to come along in this era.

    Congrats to Captains Amile Jefferson & Quinn Cook. Go lead this team to nets and hardware fellas!

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    raleigh
    i often wonder what he thinks about his dream school now? i don't think that flight can leave rdu quickly enough...


    legacy? look at my avatar.....THAT's his legacy....
    "Either we're going down, or they are....... Kirk out!"

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    On the couch
    Quote Originally Posted by gethlives View Post
    It wasn't just Roy who said he worked hard--almost every profile of the kid had him spending hours upon hours in the gym working on his game. Obviously you and I disagree on whether that paid off on the court, but don't you think it's possible for someone to work hard and not show improvement?

    I think the criticism about Harrison goes to what the really excellent Tar Heel Blog said in summing up his career at Carolina: "He called his home run shot, and ended up hitting a double." Yes, he came in saying he was going to win a championship and be a national player of the year and yes he fell short, but that doesn't negate his very real accomplishments.
    Not when it is reported that he has an unlimited upside and potential. Somethng is amiss. He is either not talented enough, or he is practicing incorrectlyl. Remember, only perfect practive make perfect.

    If he spent hours and hour working on his handle, then he wasted his time. If he spent hours and hours on driving to the lane, he wasted his time. If he spent hours and hours on passing the ball, he wasted his time, if he spent hours and hours on rebounding he wasted his time... Sophmore Barnes without KM was no better than freshman Barnes with KM, So he should have spent more time one idsigning a logo or line of clothing gear.... because his game did not improve noticably....

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    On the couch
    I apologise for the multiple typo's in the previous post (had a long day and my back was killing me). Bottomline of what I was trying to say was that spending hours in a gym is not the same as "working on your game". I have know lots of gym rats that just play pick up games and 21, etc... for hours and hours every day that never really improve. I would not say that they are working on their games, I would say they are killing time in the gym....

    I do not know this, but given the paultry improvement made by Barnes over his two years, he may have just been killing time in the gym... I may be wrong, but if he put the work in (and by work I mean specific dedicated drills on ball handling, low post moves, rebounding) that Ol Roy lead us to believe when he said that HB was the hardest working kid he had seen (paraphrase), then he must have pegged his talent meter in high school. Or could it be that UNC just cannot develope wing players???

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Quote Originally Posted by oldnavy View Post
    Not when it is reported that he has an unlimited upside and potential. Somethng is amiss. He is either not talented enough, or he is practicing incorrectlyl. Remember, only perfect practive make perfect.

    If he spent hours and hour working on his handle, then he wasted his time. If he spent hours and hours on driving to the lane, he wasted his time. If he spent hours and hours on passing the ball, he wasted his time, if he spent hours and hours on rebounding he wasted his time... Sophmore Barnes without KM was no better than freshman Barnes with KM, So he should have spent more time one idsigning a logo or line of clothing gear.... because his game did not improve noticably....
    I don't think anyone views Barnes as having unlimited upside and potential anymore. General view is that he is a good but not great athlete who lacks the quickness and explosiveness to be dominant, even at the college level, but is a top tier shooter, especially for his size. From an NBA standpoint, he is seen as someone with a fairly low ceiling, but also limited downside - you know what you are getting, and it is a skill set that is immediately useful for many teams, which is not the case with a lot of other top prospects.

    In hindsight, it seems very odd to me that HB was ever viewed as having such a high ceiling. The fact that he is not a great athlete, especially in terms of quickness, was obvious to me from the first time I saw him play, yet the ESPN, etc. party line remained "potential next Kobe" well past the time it was obvious that would never be the case.

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