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Thread: Austin Rivers

  1. #1
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    Feb 2007

    Austin Rivers

    A good friend of mine asked me to ask other Duke fans what they thought about Austin Rivers. Do you think he is, 1- As good as you expected, 2- not as good as you expected or 3- Better than you expected. I said that it was a little too early to give any valid answer, but I thought I would ask anyway.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by NYC Duke Fan View Post
    A good friend of mine asked me to ask other Duke fans what they thought about Austin Rivers. Do you think he is, 1- As good as you expected, 2- not as good as you expected or 3- Better than you expected. I said that it was a little too early to give any valid answer, but I thought I would ask anyway.
    1,2 and 3- all depends on what part of his game you are talking about. And it is too early to give a valid answer.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukelifer View Post
    1,2 and 3- all depends on what part of his game you are talking about. And it is too early to give a valid answer.
    I really just don't understand it. There is so much general reservation about Austin Rivers, despite the fact that he is actually quietly leading this team. As a freshman. He is leading in scoring, something a freshman hasn't done at Duke in over TWO DECADES. He's also chipping in 2.7 rebounds, 2 assists, and 1 steal per game. They may not quite be Kevin Durant's numbers, but he has been the most steady and reliable presence on the team. I just can't see how he has done anything but exceed expectations. Even his play on defense, though not quite at a Nolan Smith level, is decent. And his constantly criticized turnover rate? It is a less-than-desirable 2.3 per game, but still no worse than two of our other primary ballhandlers: Mason (2.3) and Seth (2.8). And while being, again, our most steady player, he has constantly and publicly reaffirmed that his game is far from perfect and that he is constantly striving for improvement. And rather than whine about all this unfair criticism, he has accepted it as legitimate, and uses it as motivation. It's astonishing, really, when you think about it.

    So what's not to like? Is it his body language? Or the little competitive sneer he does sometimes? Or is it his "edginess?" I don't know. But to me, it seems unjustified. Keep it up Austin.

    (Clearly I'm very emotional about this )

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYC Duke Fan View Post
    A good friend of mine asked me to ask other Duke fans what they thought about Austin Rivers. Do you think he is, 1- As good as you expected, 2- not as good as you expected or 3- Better than you expected. I said that it was a little too early to give any valid answer, but I thought I would ask anyway.
    My answer would be that it is early January and he is a freshman.

  5. #5
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    My answer is simple: He is not Kyrie Irving. I have watched a couple of Cavalier games, and Kyrie is gold. He has a multi pronged attack -- he can make a 3, make a layup though traffic, and feed the post after a drive. He makes very good decisions.
    Now Austin is talented and appears to be a smart guy. So he needs to learn which of these three options to exercise on a given possession. He has demonstrated that he can accomplish all three, the problem is for hin to decide which to emply and when. He also needs to learn how to carry the ball on his hip for protection, a la Kyrie and then Nolan Smith.
    I believe that by tournament time, Austin will have learned these things.

  6. #6
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    Albemarle, North Carolina
    At this point in the season this is exactly how I thought Austin would be doing. Now I do expect him to become a little more consistent and raise his scoring a bit I also expect his play making (for others). Only disappointing thing to me so far has been his attitude. I knew he had a bad one coming in and figured he would get straightened out fairly quick but it still seems to be a work in progress. Ask for a final analysis come tourny time.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Jderf View Post
    I really just don't understand it. There is so much general reservation about Austin Rivers, despite the fact that he is actually quietly leading this team. As a freshman. He is leading in scoring, something a freshman hasn't done at Duke in over TWO DECADES. He's also chipping in 2.7 rebounds, 2 assists, and 1 steal per game. They may not quite be Kevin Durant's numbers, but he has been the most steady and reliable presence on the team. I just can't see how he has done anything but exceed expectations. Even his play on defense, though not quite at a Nolan Smith level, is decent. And his constantly criticized turnover rate? It is a less-than-desirable 2.3 per game, but still no worse than two of our other primary ballhandlers: Mason (2.3) and Seth (2.8). And while being, again, our most steady player, he has constantly and publicly reaffirmed that his game is far from perfect and that he is constantly striving for improvement. And rather than whine about all this unfair criticism, he has accepted it as legitimate, and uses it as motivation. It's astonishing, really, when you think about it.

    So what's not to like? Is it his body language? Or the little competitive sneer he does sometimes? Or is it his "edginess?" I don't know. But to me, it seems unjustified. Keep it up Austin.

    (Clearly I'm very emotional about this )

    I would have answered this way for most Freshman. They are Freshman and still have much to work on. This is not a knock on Austin but rather just the way it is for a Freshman. His decision making is still not great. His free throw shooting is not as good as I expected and needs to be better. That said- he is explosive- he is the best driver on the team and is a very good albeit streaky shooter. He still needs to work on his shooting mechanics. His D is actually a bit better than I expected. He is much better than Nolan was a Freshman and we saw what happened with him with time. Austin is going to be a great player- he just has to work on his game- which I am sure he will do.

  8. #8
    http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/teams/dau/stats

    Austin is shooting 40% from the three point line, he's scoring 14.7 points off 11.1 field goal attempts per game, he's clutch, and he has played 15 college basketball games in his entire career. I don't see how people can have huge complaints. Sometimes I find myself wishing he would drive and pass the ball to an open three point shooter like Jordan, but then I realize I'm comparing him to Michael Jordan.
    Last edited by Aditya; 01-08-2012 at 11:06 PM. Reason: clarification

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNort View Post
    At this point in the season this is exactly how I thought Austin would be doing. Now I do expect him to become a little more consistent and raise his scoring a bit I also expect his play making (for others). Only disappointing thing to me so far has been his attitude. I knew he had a bad one coming in and figured he would get straightened out fairly quick but it still seems to be a work in progress. Ask for a final analysis come tourny time.
    This is where I feel many have missed the boat. The whole "Austin has an attitude" myth. I don't see it at all. He is a competitive kid who hate losing, and hates it when he makes a mistake. That's it. Guys with "attitudes" are not coachable. Every report has suggested that Austin soaks up every bit of the instruction he gets from the coaching staff. I have yet to see him so much as give a coach a bad look, let alone mouth back.

    I think people are totally misreading the kid with the bad attitude suggestions. I have seen nothing of the sort in person or on TV. What I have seen is a kid who has greatly improved in just about every aspect of the game since game 1. I think he has gotten off to a great start in his freshman season.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by JNort View Post
    At this point in the season this is exactly how I thought Austin would be doing. Now I do expect him to become a little more consistent and raise his scoring a bit I also expect his play making (for others). Only disappointing thing to me so far has been his attitude. I knew he had a bad one coming in and figured he would get straightened out fairly quick but it still seems to be a work in progress. Ask for a final analysis come tourny time.
    I see nothing out of the ordinary with Rivers' attitude. No major blowups, always plays hard, evolving as a player. He'll pout at the refs a bit, but so does his coach.

    I'll tell you what I like: his defense. I know Rice lit Duke up, but the majority of those were very difficult shots defended well by Rivers, the last three-pointer notwithstanding. I love watching his development, and the fact that he has contoured his game perfectly to this team. He also had arguably the play of the game when he picked off that late pass and took it the distance. I love watching him play and he figures to get better and better; I just wonder if he gets good enough that we don't have him next year.

  11. #11

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter View Post
    I see nothing out of the ordinary with Rivers' attitude. No major blowups, always plays hard, evolving as a player. He'll pout at the refs a bit, but so does his coach.

    I'll tell you what I like: his defense. I know Rice lit Duke up, but the majority of those were very difficult shots defended well by Rivers, the last three-pointer notwithstanding. I love watching his development, and the fact that he has contoured his game perfectly to this team. He also had arguably the play of the game when he picked off that late pass and took it the distance. I love watching him play and he figures to get better and better; I just wonder if he gets good enough that we don't have him next year.
    Yeah, that's about the way I see it, too. Austin's defense has come a long way and he's simply a great competitor who wants to make winning plays in late game situations.

    Just use some better judgment on those drives to the basket. He's getting stripped occasionally (ball poked from behind a couple times vs Tech) and either missing badly or getting blocked on some other forays. I would assume he'll adjust, maybe look to drop off the ball more frequently. Exciting player; I'm glad he's on our side.

  13. #13
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    Steamboat Springs, CO

    Austin and Bobby

    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    This is where I feel many have missed the boat. The whole "Austin has an attitude" myth. I don't see it at all. He is a competitive kid who hate losing, and hates it when he makes a mistake. That's it. Guys with "attitudes" are not coachable. Every report has suggested that Austin soaks up every bit of the instruction he gets from the coaching staff. I have yet to see him so much as give a coach a bad look, let alone mouth back.

    I think people are totally misreading the kid with the bad attitude suggestions. I have seen nothing of the sort in person or on TV. What I have seen is a kid who has greatly improved in just about every aspect of the game since game 1. I think he has gotten off to a great start in his freshman season.
    I agree completely. Moreover, Bobby Hurley didn't have "an attitude" either. He had a natural facial expression that was a cross between pouty and sullen. It looked like he was always angry. He wasn't -- but he was hyper-competitive. Similarly with Austin, whose facial expressions are benign compared with Bobby.

    sage
    Last edited by sagegrouse; 01-08-2012 at 11:47 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgtr View Post
    My answer is simple: He is not Kyrie Irving. I have watched a couple of Cavalier games, and Kyrie is gold. He has a multi pronged attack -- he can make a 3, make a layup though traffic, and feed the post after a drive. He makes very good decisions.
    Now Austin is talented and appears to be a smart guy. So he needs to learn which of these three options to exercise on a given possession. He has demonstrated that he can accomplish all three, the problem is for hin to decide which to emply and when. He also needs to learn how to carry the ball on his hip for protection, a la Kyrie and then Nolan Smith.
    I believe that by tournament time, Austin will have learned these things.
    This. It is really unfair, but I think many people expect Austin to somehow make up for the year we lost with Kyrie. Not only do they expect Austin to be as good as Kyrie was in those 8 early season games--even though Austin is a very different player with a very different high school experience, and even though Kyrie appeared to be exceptionally mature for his age, beyond any reasonable expectation--but they expect Austin to be as good as we imagine Kyrie was going to be in the 20-odd games we didn't ever see him play. Granted, Kyrie Irving appeared to be a great basketball player, and he has shown a lot of promise in his early NBA games; but we don't actually know that he would have been all that through an entire season of college ball, including conference games. Maybe he would have had bad days. Maybe he would have made some bad decisions from time to time. Maybe he would even have gotten visibly frustrated from time to time when calls went against him. Maybe he would have been a normal 18-year-old boy.

    I think if we judge Austin against a general standard of freshman basketball players he is doing great--let's do that and not put the weight of Kyrie's toe injury on his shoulders (or, maybe, his feet).

  15. #15
    I wish Austin Rivers well and I want him to become a great player. Because of his ability to get around people and to go from point A to point B faster than the person who is guarding him he has the potential to be a devastating offensive force. However, as just about everyone has pointed out he needs to learn how to set up others with a pass while he is driving to the basket and he would benefit from diversifying his shots when he does keep it and attack the basket. How many times can you try to make your shots off the glass? Also, until he learns how to shoot the ball--jumpers and free throws--without splaying both elbows out wide he will never be a consistent shooter. I am stunned that no one--including his father, his high school and pre-high school coaches, and his coaches at Duke--has been able to help him correct this fundamental flaw. Maybe he's just stubborn about continuing to shoot it the way he is used to doing. I wish Ray Allen or JJ could find the time to work with him. I'd hate to see such a superior talent not get realized.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    This is where I feel many have missed the boat. The whole "Austin has an attitude" myth. I don't see it at all. He is a competitive kid who hate losing, and hates it when he makes a mistake. That's it. Guys with "attitudes" are not coachable. Every report has suggested that Austin soaks up every bit of the instruction he gets from the coaching staff. I have yet to see him so much as give a coach a bad look, let alone mouth back.

    I think people are totally misreading the kid with the bad attitude suggestions. I have seen nothing of the sort in person or on TV. What I have seen is a kid who has greatly improved in just about every aspect of the game since game 1. I think he has gotten off to a great start in his freshman season.
    Quote Originally Posted by Starter View Post
    I see nothing out of the ordinary with Rivers' attitude. No major blowups, always plays hard, evolving as a player. He'll pout at the refs a bit, but so does his coach.
    I did not mean for it to sound like he was a ticking time bomb. I am merely saying he could cut out all the pointing and facial expressions after EVERY call that he does not like (That is your coaches job). He also does the same thing Cam Newton of the Panthers takes a lot of criticism for and that is as soon as he goes out he kinda sulks and either a puts a towel over himself i or takes the towel and throws it at the ground. He is competitive and I really am not bothered by these things but the media is always looking at your every move and listening to your every word and I just do not want Duke being brought up in the media in that manner.

  17. #17
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    Jacksonville, NC
    Once upon a time coaches use to love to say the phrase the best thing about freshman is that they will be sophomores. Unfortunately that isn't really the case these days with one and dones.

    Freshman are coming into the college game much more prepared to contribute. Year round basketball for better or for worse has made freshman more conditioned physically (maybe not so much mentally) to play Division I basketball right away. And as a result kids come in stay there year and go on to the promised land. Some with great success, others not so much.

    Austin Rivers has a combination of pedigree and an already vast amount of playing experience. He is physically ready to play at this level. I've been pleased with his progress so far, realizing that he was in the unfortunate position in terms of perceptions (publicly- by media and fans) of coming to a program that is constantly under the microscope. If he didn't live up to all the hype he would be criticised to no end. Think Harrison Barnes early last season. Rivers seems like a kid that doesn't shy away from the challenge. He isn't afraid of being hated or at the very least strongly disliked. I applaud him for having the courage to come to Duke, take those expectations on his shoulder and not back down from it. His game is evolving despite the impatience of some out there that want him to be Kyrie Irving or some other amazing day-one talent. My evaluation of him is that he is very good but it is unfair to compare him to anyone much less Kyrie Irving. They aren't even close to the same player and trying to compare him doesn't allow his game to mature and grow naturally.

    That isn't to say that Austin isn't good or isn't capable of being on the same level as Kyrie Irving, but he just isn't there yet. He needs more time. Honestly I think he could use another year to develop his all around game. He is getting there physically but he still needs some work mentally on his game on both ends of the floor. He, maybe for the first time ever, playing truly competive basketball with guys who are at least as good if not better than he is. This is new to him. No disrespect to his former high school teammates, but he has never played with guys he can depend on to score and take shots away from him, he has been that guy. And everyone of us knows that the AAU circuit is more of an offensive showcase than truely good, all-around basketball. So I think it has taken him awhile to adjust, but it isn't like he is stinking up the joint. He is the team's leading scorer, he is learning to contribute in other ways too. He has had some off games offensively, but that happens to the best of them. It will come and when it does look out. I expect hims to potentially blow up as the season progresses. Maybe he will want to stay another year, maybe he won't. Either way his game has upside and he is wearing a Duke uniform. And since he is I will support the kid as part of the program that I support. Those that ask about what we think of him in my opinion are just looking for something to talk about and trying to get Duke fans to talk trash about their own. I'll save that for other fan bases to do, I for one will support him whether he is averaging 18 points or 8 and I think most everyone here will too as long as the kid has a good attitude and is giving it his all.

  18. #18

    I love Rivers

    AR is top 3 freshman in the nation and he is first team all acc right now. I think he needs the ball in his hands more.

    Kyrie was handed the keys to a Ferrari, my numbers wouldve looked good playing along side Kyle and Nolan. Senior leadership can make a difference.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkline09 View Post
    Think Harrison Barnes early last season.
    Yeah, I was thinking the exact same thing. Because of a variety of factors, a lot of freshman these days are overhyped and unrealistic expectations are created. Did Barnes start out the season playing poorly last year? No, but he faced the exact same scrutiny that Rivers is now facing. It takes time for most kids to adapt their high school skills to the college game.

    Rivers is not the problem here, unrealistic expectations are.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    I wish Austin Rivers well and I want him to become a great player. Because of his ability to get around people and to go from point A to point B faster than the person who is guarding him he has the potential to be a devastating offensive force. However, as just about everyone has pointed out he needs to learn how to set up others with a pass while he is driving to the basket and he would benefit from diversifying his shots when he does keep it and attack the basket. How many times can you try to make your shots off the glass? Also, until he learns how to shoot the ball--jumpers and free throws--without splaying both elbows out wide he will never be a consistent shooter. I am stunned that no one--including his father, his high school and pre-high school coaches, and his coaches at Duke--has been able to help him correct this fundamental flaw. Maybe he's just stubborn about continuing to shoot it the way he is used to doing. I wish Ray Allen or JJ could find the time to work with him. I'd hate to see such a superior talent not get realized.
    Maybe he's like Jim Furyk.

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