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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    Sounds like we're in excellent shape with him. I don't think it'd be a "horrible scenario" if we don't get him, as our 2013-2014 team is looking awesome already. But man, it's nice to dream.
    Concur. Parker is an amazing player, but he is luxury for the 2013-2014 team with Hood, Murphy, and Jefferson already on board. Randle, on the other hand, fits a much more pressing need.

    I understand that Parker is seen as the better player (barely, though. They are both so talented) but, gun to my head, I'd rather have Randle.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Concur. Parker is an amazing player, but he is luxury for the 2013-2014 team with Hood, Murphy, and Jefferson already on board. Randle, on the other hand, fits a much more pressing need.

    I understand that Parker is seen as the better player (barely, though. They are both so talented) but, gun to my head, I'd rather have Randle.
    Don't disagree. Parker is generally ranked number one, and Randle #2 (or 1a?). They are both very, very talented. And I really agree that we will have a huge interior need starting in 2013-14. BUT let's keep in mind that it would be WONDERFUL to just get EITHER of them. Nothing is guaranteed, for sure. Nice to be one of the very few who can actually be in the conversation with both of these studs. Special, talented kids, both.


  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Concur. Parker is an amazing player, but he is luxury for the 2013-2014 team with Hood, Murphy, and Jefferson already on board. Randle, on the other hand, fits a much more pressing need.

    I understand that Parker is seen as the better player (barely, though. They are both so talented) but, gun to my head, I'd rather have Randle.
    Kind of weird that someone would put a gun to your head for an answer to that question.

    It's not an either/or proposition with these guys, and both would start from Day 1. Hood is often listed as a guard and Jefferson is without question a front court player, so "luxury" is understating how much Parker would contribute to the program.
    "I don't like them when they are eating my azaleas or rhododendrons or pansies." - Coach K

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by gam7 View Post
    Kind of weird that someone would put a gun to your head for an answer to that question.

    It's not an either/or proposition with these guys, and both would start from Day 1. Hood is often listed as a guard and Jefferson is without question a front court player, so "luxury" is understating how much Parker would contribute to the program.
    I would have to disagree. Gun to my head (), it is an either/or proposition. These are the two highest profile players in the country for 2013. They will be option 1 wherever they go. You rarely see teams that have the consensus 1 and 2 player in the country (UK possibly being the exception). On top of that, while their games are different, there is slight overlap between the two (Parker could be a silky smooth 4 and Randle could be a super strong 3). IMO, if one commits to a school, I will happily put money that the other doesn't commit to that school (even with terrible odds). In most schools where there are great recruiting classes (like UCLA this year, Duke last year), there are rarely two players ranked in the two 5. And that makes sense - if you are Parker or Randle-type talent, don't you want to be the focus on the team? Why not get more exposure?

    Secondly, we have the most number of players who can play the 3 in 2013-2014 (Hood, Jefferson, Murphy, Sulaimon). It is a position where there isn't true need. Also, we have no idea about Jefferson right now. He may have a skillset that fits the 4 better, but he can't play the 4 in the ACC right now due to weight issues. I suspect that everyone listed above (minus Hood, of course) will play some 3 this year.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    In most schools where there are great recruiting classes (like UCLA this year, Duke last year), there are rarely two players ranked in the two 5. And that makes sense - if you are Parker or Randle-type talent, don't you want to be the focus on the team? Why not get more exposure?
    I know you said rarely, but it does happen...

    http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketb...sclasses052909

    Fab Five (1991) - 1, 3, 6, 9, 84
    Killer B's (1997) - arguably... 1, 1, 1 (+ Avery)

    I can't find accurate old rankings but I would not be surprised if there are other examples. It does happen. You never know.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Rosenrosen View Post
    I know you said rarely, but it does happen...

    http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketb...sclasses052909

    Fab Five (1991) - 1, 3, 6, 9, 84
    Killer B's (1997) - arguably... 1, 1, 1 (+ Avery)

    I can't find accurate old rankings but I would not be surprised if there are other examples. It does happen. You never know.
    2011 - Anthony Davis (1), MKG (3), Teague (7)
    2009 -John Wall (2), Demarcus Cousins (3)
    2006 - Brandon Wright (3), Ty Lawson (5), Wayne Ellington (8)
    2002- Ray Felton (3), Rashad McCants (4), Sean May (9)

    It happens a lot more often than you might think.

    -Jason "plenty of folks had JWill and Boozer both in the top 5 in 1999 as well... and Dunleavy was regarded as top 10 by some too" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    2011 - Anthony Davis (1), MKG (3), Teague (7)
    2009 -John Wall (2), Demarcus Cousins (3)
    2006 - Brandon Wright (3), Ty Lawson (5), Wayne Ellington (8)
    2002- Ray Felton (3), Rashad McCants (4), Sean May (9)

    It happens a lot more often than you might think.

    -Jason "plenty of folks had JWill and Boozer both in the top 5 in 1999 as well... and Dunleavy was regarded as top 10 by some too" Evans
    But interestingly enought, only four of those examples (including Dr Rosenrosen's) won a NC. And except for the KY class with Davis, it took the other two teams three years of playing together to win a NC. Goes to show that even with a recuriting cllass having multiple players ranked in the top 10, NC is not guaranteed and it normally takes time to win one if you are fortunate to do so.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Class of '94 View Post
    But interestingly enought, only four of those examples (including Dr Rosenrosen's) won a NC. And except for the KY class with Davis, it took the other two teams three years of playing together to win a NC. Goes to show that even with a recuriting cllass having multiple players ranked in the top 10, NC is not guaranteed and it normally takes time to win one if you are fortunate to do so.
    Which really just goes to show how unlikely winning a NC is in any given year.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    I would have to disagree. Gun to my head (), it is an either/or proposition. These are the two highest profile players in the country for 2013. They will be option 1 wherever they go. You rarely see teams that have the consensus 1 and 2 player in the country (UK possibly being the exception). On top of that, while their games are different, there is slight overlap between the two (Parker could be a silky smooth 4 and Randle could be a super strong 3). IMO, if one commits to a school, I will happily put money that the other doesn't commit to that school (even with terrible odds). In most schools where there are great recruiting classes (like UCLA this year, Duke last year), there are rarely two players ranked in the two 5. And that makes sense - if you are Parker or Randle-type talent, don't you want to be the focus on the team? Why not get more exposure?

    Secondly, we have the most number of players who can play the 3 in 2013-2014 (Hood, Jefferson, Murphy, Sulaimon). It is a position where there isn't true need. Also, we have no idea about Jefferson right now. He may have a skillset that fits the 4 better, but he can't play the 4 in the ACC right now due to weight issues. I suspect that everyone listed above (minus Hood, of course) will play some 3 this year.
    Ehhh, I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with the idea that we need Randle over Parker. First of all, in my opinion Parker is a better player, no question. There's no 1 and 1a. (In fact, Scout.com already rates Andrew Harrison ahead of Randle) Parker is clearly #1 in my mind. He's got a complete offensive game, which is something you can't say for Randle. Most of all, his jumper is silky smooth, he's got guard-like handles, and he's got a pretty decent post up game. Before Nerlens Noel reclassified, he was still #2 behind Parker in the class of 2013. I mean, people are saying he's the best high school player since LeBron. That's pretty unbelievable praise. There's been some pretty dang good players since LeBron. (Anthony Davis, Kyrie Irving, Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, KEVIN DURANT?) If Parker is better than those guys, are you freakin kidding me? Sign me up NOW. If this guy is as good as people think he is, he's gonna do soooo much good for Duke when he's dominating in the NBA.

    Second, Randle is not Elton Brand. I'm sorry, but every video that I've seen him in and every article I've read about him says little about his low post game. In fact, I don't think it really exists yet. I'm not saying he can't develop one, especially with his size and strength, but to me, he looks like he wants to be a perimeter player who takes people off the bounce, and when he starts playing with college level guards, his handle will not be strong enough to do this. His college coaches are going to want him to operate mainly down low.

    Now don't get me wrong, I'd love to get Randle as well as Parker, but to me, Parker is far and away the superior player, and will help our team much more in the hunt for a national title. He's a go-to scorer . . he reminds me a little of Kevin Durant almost, but with a higher ceiling on the defensive end. So yeah, to me, I think Parker over Randle is a no-brainer, and I'm shocked that anyone would prefer to get Randle over him, especially considering that Parker is perfectly capable of playing the 4 in college.

    Another thing, why does everyone keep saying Amile Jefferson can play the 3?? I've seen nothing that suggests he is capable of doing so. At least not yet. He played the 4 pretty much exclusively in high school. So now all of a sudden he has the perimeter skills to play the 3 in college? Amile is a natural 4 imo, similar to Lance Thomas, but with better offensive skills. He just needs to get stronger. With that in mind, I think Parker would fit in just fine with the roster we have projected for 2013-14. He is capable playing and defending 3 positions (2, 3, and 4), and with Parker, Hood, Dawkins, Sulaimon, Murphy, and Jones we would have the deadliest collection of wing players in the nation for sure. I think a lineup of Cook/Sulaimon/Murphy/Parker/Randle would be able to dominate like no team anyone's seen in recent memory, especially when you consider that we would also have Andre Dawkins, Rodney Hood, Amile Jefferson, Matt Jones, Tyler Thornton, Marshall Plumlee, and possibly another top recruit freshman sitting on the bench as well.

    Would we be slightly undersized without Randle? Sure, I guess. We may have to start Marshall at the 5, which wouldn't be terrible. I think as a rebounder and post defender, he should be just fine, considering it would be his 3rd year in the program at that point. He wouldn't need to be relied on at all for offense, which I think is a good thing, but he should get a few put backs and alley oops every game anyway, which would be icing on the cake. My point is, it would still be a dominant team without Randle. We would still be really, really good without Parker, but it wouldn't be the same. Parker is special. He's a once in a generation type player that we would be blessed to have on our team. However, if we got both guys, it would be the most talented, deepest Duke team since 1999. There might be 5 NBA first rounders on that team, maybe 2 of the top 3 picks. I'm getting giddy just thinking about it.
    Last edited by licc85; 08-02-2012 at 09:58 PM.

  10. #90
    I caught Parker on a bad day for him, when Findlay smothered him at Hoophall. He was obviously really good, but didn't strike me as like off the charts special. Like I said, I probably just caught him on a bad day, and it was the one time I'd seen him live. But the best since LeBron comments are hyperbole for sure. Off the top of my head, I could run off like 7 high school guys easily better than Parker since LeBron came out. (Our guy, Kyrie, is one of those.)

    Mind you, I'm not saying Parker's not really good. He is, and Duke would be fortunate to have him. But LeBron James would have made virtually any team in America a Final Four team just by virtue of being there. I don't get the feeling Parker's like that. His game kind of reminds me of Luol Deng's -- which isn't a slight -- and I'd think his impact would be about the same; if you have a good team already, he'll put you over the top to elite. In that sense, the people who are saying they'd rather have Randle, I can't knock it. It'd be nice to see Duke again have a no-question elite big man. The last time they had one, or even a reasonable facsimile of one, they won a National Title. I trust they'll have wings/guard play, you know?

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter View Post
    I caught Parker on a bad day for him, when Findlay smothered him at Hoophall. He was obviously really good, but didn't strike me as like off the charts special. Like I said, I probably just caught him on a bad day, and it was the one time I'd seen him live. But the best since LeBron comments are hyperbole for sure. Off the top of my head, I could run off like 7 high school guys easily better than Parker since LeBron came out. (Our guy, Kyrie, is one of those.)

    Mind you, I'm not saying Parker's not really good. He is, and Duke would be fortunate to have him. But LeBron James would have made virtually any team in America a Final Four team just by virtue of being there. I don't get the feeling Parker's like that. His game kind of reminds me of Luol Deng's -- which isn't a slight -- and I'd think his impact would be about the same; if you have a good team already, he'll put you over the top to elite. In that sense, the people who are saying they'd rather have Randle, I can't knock it. It'd be nice to see Duke again have a no-question elite big man. The last time they had one, or even a reasonable facsimile of one, they won a National Title. I trust they'll have wings/guard play, you know?
    I dunno . . . I mean, I media types like to use hyperbole to hype up their own stories, but I think these people actually believe he's the best since Lebron, I mean, I just googled Jabari, and here's a few articles that make the "best since Lebron" argument, including a Sports Illustrated article literally titled "Jabari Parker Is...THE BEST HIGH SCHOOL BASKETBALL PLAYER SINCE LEBRON JAMES"

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/prep-p...154124631.html

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...8498/index.htm

    http://thegrio.com/2012/05/16/high-s...-since-lebron/

    http://www.themarsreel.com/2012/05/s...-lebron-james/

    You have to realize, this kid has been considered the #1 high school player in the nation 2 years in a row, and he's still got another year to go. Only 4 players have been named Gatorade player of the year before their senior year: LeBron James, Greg Oden, Brandon Knight, and Jabari Parker. His game isn't flashy, and I'm not sure when you saw him play, (maybe his injury was a factor?) but I think you might be underselling him. You just don't get this type of hype if you aren't the real deal.

    Heck, even Coach K is on the hype train, check this out:

    ". . .in a recent conversation with Duke Coach Mike Krzyzewski, he was given some mighty praise by a man who knows a thing or two about hoops.
    “He compared me to Kobe Bryant and he compared me to Grant Hill,” the 6-foot-7, 220-pound Parker said Wednesday at the Peach Jam."

    I'll take a Kobe or Grant. Gimme that please.
    Last edited by Newton_14; 08-03-2012 at 10:40 PM. Reason: language

  12. #92
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    Nashville
    Quote Originally Posted by licc85 View Post
    “He compared me to Kobe Bryant and he compared me to Grant Hill,” the 6-foot-7, 220-pound Parker said Wednesday at the Peach Jam."

    I'll take a Kobe or Grant.
    He's also compared Julius Randle to Lebron James. Playing-style comparisons do not equal "as good as".

    There's also the fact that Randle dominated their only head-to-head matchup this summer, with Matt Jones shutting down Parker.

    Also, the fact that media outlets say something doesn't mean it's not hyperbole. In fact, it's usually the contrary...

    In any case, both are great players and I'd love to have either one at the 4 alongside JR Cook and 2 of RS-SO Hood, RS-SO Murphy and SO Sulaimon on the wing. Zaf could play center and we'd still win 30+ games.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg_Newton View Post
    He's also compared Julius Randle to Lebron James. Playing-style comparisons do not equal "as good as".

    There's also the fact that Randle dominated their only head-to-head matchup this summer, with Matt Jones shutting down Parker.

    Also, the fact that media outlets say something doesn't mean it's not hyperbole. In fact, it's usually the contrary...

    In any case, both are great players and I'd love to have either one at the 4 alongside JR Cook and 2 of RS-SO Hood, RS-SO Murphy and SO Sulaimon on the wing. Zaf could play center and we'd still win 30+ games.
    Actually . . I think that's exactly what it means. I actually remember when he compared Randle to James, and it wasn't a straight up comparison, I believe he was only comparing their size and aggressiveness in attacking the paint off the dribble. Suggesting that Randle's ball skills even approach Lebron's is laughable.

    You wouldn't compare two players directly with no stipulations (as K did with Jabari and Kobe/Grant) if they weren't in the same general stratosphere of talent. For example, how many players are compared to Michael Jordan? Probably only Kobe and LeBron. Beside how can you say playing style comparisons doesn't equal "as good as"? It's impossible to have a remotely similar playing style as those guys unless you are unbelievably talented. Nobody is comparing Harrison Barnes to Larry Bird (because he's nowhere near as talented), and I'd argue they have similar playing styles. On the other hand, people are having no problem comparing Anthony Davis to Bill Russell. Why? Because he's really really good.

    Regardless, I'm just not as high on Randle as you guys are. Randle's absolute ceiling is Elton Brand, (Similar size, more athletic, but has a MUCH smaller wingspan and is much less skilled), while Jabari has the potential to be just as good as, or maybe better than Grant Hill.
    Last edited by licc85; 08-03-2012 at 12:39 AM.

  14. #94
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    Actually, I think a more accurate NBA comp for Jabari would be Paul Pierce. He's a more explosive, quicker version of Paul Pierce, or perhaps a slightly less athletic Grant Hill with a jumper.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by licc85 View Post
    ... a slightly less athletic Grant Hill with a jumper.
    You mean the current version of Grant rather than the college version?

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by licc85 View Post
    Actually, I think a more accurate NBA comp for Jabari would be Paul Pierce. He's a more explosive, quicker version of Paul Pierce, or perhaps a slightly less athletic Grant Hill with a jumper.
    I see him more as a spicy fusion between J.R. Smith, Kurt Rambis, and a dash of Kyrie Irving. Wait... maybe i'm thinking of Marshall.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter View Post
    It'd be nice to see Duke again have a no-question elite big man. The last time they had one, or even a reasonable facsimile of one, they won a National Title.
    Mason Plumlee.

    Quote Originally Posted by licc85 View Post
    You just don't get this type of hype if you aren't the real deal.
    Harrison Barnes.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Jderf View Post
    Mason Plumlee.

    Nah, you know that's not what I mean. Mason was a very good player last season, but I think it's a big stretch to call him elite. I'm talking about an Anthony Davis, Thomas Robinson type player, one that changes the scope of games and forces other teams to adjust. The much ballyhooed Brand-Boozer-Landlord trio, that's what I'm talking about from a Duke perspective. What we thought we'd get from McRoberts and Shav Randolph. For a while, Zoubek was playing at what I consider to be an elite level in terms of defense and rebounding, and I thought that team wouldn't have even sniffed the Final Four if he wasn't playing like that.

    If Mason reaches that elite level next year, mind you, that'd be terrific. I personally just think he'll probably add a few more wrinkles to his already very good arsenal. But I can't see him completely and totally dominating games when he hasn't really shown that so far.

    Quote Originally Posted by licc85 View Post

    You have to realize, this kid has been considered the #1 high school player in the nation 2 years in a row, and he's still got another year to go. Only 4 players have been named Gatorade player of the year before their senior year: LeBron James, Greg Oden, Brandon Knight (wtf?), and Jabari Parker. His game isn't flashy, and I'm not sure when you saw him play, (maybe his injury was a factor?) but I think you might be underselling him. You just don't get this type of hype if you aren't the real deal.
    I saw him in January, his foot was presumably fine, I think? Like I said, I caught him on a bad day. But I mean, LeBron James didn't have bad days in high school. Doesn't have many now. I acknowledge that Parker is obviously a very good player based on some of the online things I've seen, I'm not saying he isn't.

    I'm just saying, is Jabari a better high school player than Dwight Howard, Durant, Rose or Kyrie? How about Oden? How about Nerlens Noel, who I thought was incredible when I saw him? Anthony Davis? Wall? I saw Michael Kidd-Gilchrist play a whole lot in person, and he was amazing. Kevin Love? Heck, Andrew Wiggins? Shabazz? That guy was an absolute force when I saw him in the same tournament. All I'm saying is, you call a guy the best since LeBron, you're going to have guys like me being skeptical, especially when I've seen some very, very good high school players. He might be better than all of them were, but if you give me the side of "Not the best guy since LeBron," I like my odds there, especially having seen him live and not been blown away. If he's in the Top 10 since LeBron, of course, and he has a pretty decent chance at that, I think that's nothing to sneeze at.
    Last edited by Starter; 08-03-2012 at 10:32 AM. Reason: Adding Shabazz. That guy is crazy!

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Starter View Post
    It'd be nice to see Duke again have a no-question elite big man. The last time they had one, or even a reasonable facsimile of one, they won a National Title.
    Are you calling Brian Zoubek a reasonable facsimile of an elite big man? That's certainly not what people thought at the time. And despite Z's incredible defense, screen-setting, and offensive rebounding in 2010, I'd argue Mason last year was more of an "elite big man" than Z ever was.

    If you're not talking about Zoubek, then I don't understand your statement. We had Carlos Boozer in 2002 and Shelden Williams from 2003 to 2006, plus Josh McRoberts in 2007-2008, who coming out of high school was considered at least as elite as Julius Randle is now.

    EDIT: I see you clarified in your latest post. Still, I disagree. Zoubek played great down the stretch in 2010. That didn't make him an "elite big man" in the sense we're talking about now. Also, the ballyhooed Brand-Boozer-Landlord trio played 9 seasons for us and won one championship (although they did make 3 Final Fours). And in that one championship, Boozer was the 3rd or maybe even 4th option on offense (and wasn't that great a defender, either).

    Quote Originally Posted by licc85 View Post
    Nobody is comparing Harrison Barnes to Larry Bird (because he's nowhere near as talented), and I'd argue they have similar playing styles.
    In what way is Barnes's playing style like Bird's? Larry Bird was an incredible passer and great defender who made his teammates better and could score any way he pleased. His best attributes were his court vision and uncanny understanding of the game. So far, at least, Barnes is basically a good shooter. I'd argue people don't make that comparison because the players are nothing alike.
    Last edited by Kedsy; 08-03-2012 at 10:36 AM.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter View Post
    Nah, you know that's not what I mean. Mason was a very good player last season, but I think it's a big stretch to call him elite. I'm talking about an Anthony Davis, Thomas Robinson type player, one that changes the scope of games and forces other teams to adjust. The much ballyhooed Brand-Boozer-Landlord trio, that's what I'm talking about from a Duke perspective. What we thought we'd get from McRoberts and Shav Randolph. For a while, Zoubek was playing at what I consider to be an elite level in terms of defense and rebounding, and I thought that team wouldn't have even sniffed the Final Four if he wasn't playing like that.

    If Mason reaches that elite level next year, mind you, that'd be terrific. I personally just think he'll probably add a few more wrinkles to his already very good arsenal. But I can't see him completely and totally dominating games when he hasn't really shown that so far.
    Yeah, I know, I know. It was a very simplistic response, and I was mostly just having a little fun. Also I was definitely stating it in the forward-looking sense, being wildly hopeful about next season. My refrain for this off-season:

    Get. Mason. The ball.

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