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  1. #261
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    Feb 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNort View Post
    Yes we must have different definitions. He averaged 17 and 6 in his first two years and that was him being the 3rd option on offense! He won ACC roty fair and square imo because nobody else stood out as much (Save for Kyrie but he got hurt early on). He scored the most points by a freshmen in the ACC tourny since Ford back in the 70's! Then in the NCAA tourny he scored more than any frshmen Tarheel in school history. Also had the most points scored in one game by a freshmen in the ACC tourny. Both years he was there they finished 1st in the regular season of ACC play.


    Did he live up to the hype? LOL not even close! But to say his 2 year career was not outstanding seems to be a little biased. I may despise everything carolina but Barnes was a dang good player who happened to be on a tram with 2 of the best players in the country (Henson and Zeller and some may even say Marshall).
    I think, as your post shows, that Harry was excellent at scoring, but only during the games that Kendal Marshall played PG. In the games prior to Kendall starting in year 1, and after Kendall got hurt in year 2, his scoring was significantly lower (an nowhere near excellent/outstanding). He was a below average defender, mediocre ball handler, and good not great rebounder. Even with the poor handle I was mystified at how terrible Barnes was at attacking the basket off the dribble. Head scratcher. In year one he was outstanding at hitting shots at or near the buzzer. Really outstanding. The 40 point tourney game against Clemson was outstanding. The next day, not so much.

    Had he scored at the same level w/o Kendall as with, I think most people would agree he was really good in his two years. I would say that Kendall and Zeller were the real outstanding players in that group of heels.

    Had Barnes taken the reins when Kendall went down, and dropped 20+ points the rest of the way, I think people would have a better opinion of him. Problem is, not only did he not do that he actually disappeared. Were it not for Bullock, they get beat by Ohio.

    Honestly, Barnes was one of the strangest college players in a long time.

    Wainstein Report Page 19 Section G:
    In men’s basketball, academic counselor Burgess McSwain (“McSwain”) and
    her successor Wayne Walden routinely called Crowder to arrange classes for their
    players.
    Roy Williams Of Nazareth had no knowledge however. He is sinless.

  2. #262
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    Feb 2007
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    Asheville
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Rosenrosen View Post
    Having grown up in FL, I would say at the absolute minimum, folks who attended UM would have something to say about that comment. It's a heck of a school and actually more highly regarded.
    Having grown up in Florida myself, and having attended Coral Gables High School (a few miles away from U of M), I would like to add that Sun-Tan-U (as it was called in my day, and for many years before and afterwards) was highly regarded enough to garner a high ranking number in the Playboy top 10 party schools for many, many years. The summer school courses I happened to take there were not especially difficult, by the way. Now, that's not to say that things have not changed drastically in the years since.

    I would also like to add that Nova University in Florida is certainly more highly regarded than either Florida or U of M.

    ricks

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by ricks68 View Post
    Having grown up in Florida myself, and having attended Coral Gables High School (a few miles away from U of M), I would like to add that Sun-Tan-U (as it was called in my day, and for many years before and afterwards) was highly regarded enough to garner a high ranking number in the Playboy top 10 party schools for many, many years. The summer school courses I happened to take there were not especially difficult, by the way. Now, that's not to say that things have not changed drastically in the years since.

    I would also like to add that Nova University in Florida is certainly more highly regarded than either Florida or U of M.

    ricks
    As someone who grew up in One-Hour-From-Anything-Interesting, Central Florida (as, it should be said, a Gator fan), I would say that the perception where I lived was that UF was best overall. FSU was considered better for polical science and such (being in the state capital) and Embry Riddle got an honorable mention for basically being NASA pipeline. Miami was kinda just there, at least for us. I suspect that was partly geography and partly cost - not only is Miami more expensive, it doesn't qualify for Bright Futures, so the thinking was that if you could afford Miami, you might as well go out of state. I ad never heard of Nova University before this thread, so I'll refrain from commenting on it.

    For what it's worth, US News ranks Miami higher than UF, while Forbes considers Florida better.

  4. #264
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    Dec 2011
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    Albemarle, North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    Outstanding, yet the third option on his team?
    Remember, only 5 play at a time.

    Outstanding for a player who was primarily a scorer and shot 43% FG and 34.9% from 3-pt for his career?
    Finished his career with a 4-game NCAA tourny run of less than 33% FG and 30% from 3-pt?
    Uh, no. We need another adjective to better describe his college career.
    I vote for over-rated.
    Yes, like I said he is/was over-rated. You are judging him off of the hype around him and the media love fest that followed. I am saying he had an outstanding 2 year career compared to the first two years of most of the guys that come into the ACC or any player on a top 25 contender for that matter.

  5. #265
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    Feb 2007
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    Walnut Creek, California
    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    I think, as your post shows, that Harry was excellent at scoring, but only during the games that Kendal Marshall played PG. In the games prior to Kendall starting in year 1, and after Kendall got hurt in year 2, his scoring was significantly lower (an nowhere near excellent/outstanding). He was a below average defender, mediocre ball handler, and good not great rebounder. Even with the poor handle I was mystified at how terrible Barnes was at attacking the basket off the dribble. Head scratcher. In year one he was outstanding at hitting shots at or near the buzzer. Really outstanding. The 40 point tourney game against Clemson was outstanding. The next day, not so much.

    Had he scored at the same level w/o Kendall as with, I think most people would agree he was really good in his two years. I would say that Kendall and Zeller were the real outstanding players in that group of heels.

    Had Barnes taken the reins when Kendall went down, and dropped 20+ points the rest of the way, I think people would have a better opinion of him. Problem is, not only did he not do that he actually disappeared. Were it not for Bullock, they get beat by Ohio.

    Honestly, Barnes was one of the strangest college players in a long time.
    Very early, but young Harry had a nice night in the Warriors' first exhibition game, a win in Fresno against the Lakers. Plenty of time to see if this is what his season looks like or whether he'll be a dud.

    24 minutes, 3-5 from the floor, 2 rebs and 2 TOs. Box, as if anyone cares.

  6. #266
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Nanjing, China
    I'm actually getting very worried that Florida could end up stealing Parker at the last moment. Consider this:

    1. Florida already has commits from the #8 and #9 players in the 2013 class, PG Kasey Hill and PF Chris Walker, two players who would seem to compliment Parker quite nicely.
    2. Duke's squad in 2013 will feature a slew of other talented wing players, including, but not limited to: Rasheed Sulaimon, Matt Jones, Semi Ojeley, Rodney Hood, Andre Dawkins, and Alex Murphy, meaning Parker may be forced to play an awful lot as a PF, which will not be his natural position in the pros.
    3. Florida has a proven and rock solid center in Patric Young (provided he stays for his senior year), as well as other guys like Will Yeguette who are experienced and can man most of the minutes in the paint, meaning Jabari can play all of his minutes on the perimeter as a SF, his natural position.
    4. Florida is his last visit (I think, not totally sure), meaning Billy Donovan gets the last word in before he makes his decision. Also, the Florida visit will be most clear in his mind, while the Duke which is his first visit, will be more than a month in the past.

    I'm really starting to get nervous . . . Florida seems to be a great choice for basketball reasons. Sorry if I'm being paranoid here, but I just don't think I can handle missing out on another recruit like this. I used to be confident that we could snag these high character guys, but after losing to Carolina of all places on Harrison Barnes, I just don't know anymore . . .

  7. #267
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    On the couch
    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    Outstanding, yet the third option on his team?
    Remember, only 5 play at a time.

    Outstanding for a player who was primarily a scorer and shot 43% FG and 34.9% from 3-pt for his career?
    Finished his career with a 4-game NCAA tourny run of less than 33% FG and 30% from 3-pt?
    Uh, no. We need another adjective to better describe his college career.
    I vote for over-rated.
    Exactly, Barnes was pretty much a spot up shooter, who did have a decent one dribble pull up. Without Marshall he went into the witness protection program.

    I am biased. But HB feed the hype machine like few others have, so I take a much harder look at him. He scored, I'll give you that, but in the other areas of the game he was average at best.

    And, I will have to disagree with those who think he should have be ROY, Marshall was the clear choice for that given UNC's performance after he took over at point. I do not think that it matters that he only started half the year, he was the best freshman in the league by a wide margin in my opinion. Did Barnes make anyone on the court better? Marshall made everyone on the court better.

  8. #268
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    Sep 2008
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    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by licc85 View Post
    1. Florida already has commits from the #8 and #9 players in the 2013 class, PG Kasey Hill and PF Chris Walker, two players who would seem to compliment Parker quite nicely.
    FWIW, they are #6 & #7 in the RSCI.

    Quote Originally Posted by licc85 View Post
    2. Duke's squad in 2013 will feature a slew of other talented wing players, including, but not limited to: Rasheed Sulaimon, Matt Jones, Semi Ojeley, Rodney Hood, Andre Dawkins, and Alex Murphy, meaning Parker may be forced to play an awful lot as a PF, which will not be his natural position in the pros.
    Just a guess, but a redshirt sophomore Alex Murphy seems more likely to slide over to PF, especially if K understood this to be a sticking point for Jabari Parker.

    Quote Originally Posted by licc85 View Post
    I'm really starting to get nervous . . . Florida seems to be a great choice for basketball reasons. Sorry if I'm being paranoid here, but I just don't think I can handle missing out on another recruit like this.
    While the one-and-done types are nice to have, I find it difficult to angst over Parker's recruitment. If everything good happens and we get Austin Nichols and Jabari, and if Andre returns, that would give us 13 recruited scholarship players, an embarrassment of riches. Seriously, when's the last time we had 13 top shelf recruited players on the roster? Sure, Jabari Parker might be the crown jewel in that collection, but if we only have 12 (mostly) top 30 players on the roster, I think we'll still be OK.

  9. #269
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    Nanjing, China
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    While the one-and-done types are nice to have, I find it difficult to angst over Parker's recruitment. If everything good happens and we get Austin Nichols and Jabari, and if Andre returns, that would give us 13 recruited scholarship players, an embarrassment of riches. Seriously, when's the last time we had 13 top shelf recruited players on the roster? Sure, Jabari Parker might be the crown jewel in that collection, but if we only have 12 (mostly) top 30 players on the roster, I think we'll still be OK.
    Yeah . . well, I don't want us to be just "OK" . . . I want us to win it all. You don't usually win it all unless you have at LEAST 1 or 2 all-american caliber guys on your roster. As good as I think Rasheed and Alex are going to be, I just don't see them on that level as sophomores. I think Quinn will be really really good down the road as well, but probably not an all-american. Jabari Parker is capable of being a first-team AA as a freshman, and I think a commit from him pushes the team over the edge to become a clear title contender in 2013-14.

    With him, we are a virtual lock for a #1 seed and a huge favorite to reach the Final 4. Without him, we'll still have a great shot at a #1 or #2 seed, but final four expectations definitely won't be as prevalent. I think we'll be on the outside looking in as far as title favorites. UK will almost certainly still have more NBA talent with the Harrison twins and whoever else they grab (Probably Julius Randle and Andrew Wiggins).

    It's like the media always says, we're Duke, we aren't satisfied with conference championships and final fours. We want national championships every year. Jabari is the best best to take us there. Do I think we can win it all without him? Maybe . . . if a ton of things fall our way, but realistically, against a team with 4 or 5 lottery picks like UK . . . how much of a chance do we really have without a star player like Jabari Parker? A squad of mostly top 30 high school players will have a tough time beating a team of mostly NBA players.

    In an age where John Calipari gets just about every player he wants, I think if want to be in the hunt for title #5, Jabari Parker is one of Duke's most important recruits ever. WE NEED THIS GUY.
    Last edited by licc85; 10-09-2012 at 12:55 AM.

  10. #270
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by licc85 View Post
    Do I think we can win it all without him? Maybe . . . if a ton of things fall our way, but realistically, against a team with 4 or 5 lottery picks like UK . . . how much of a chance do we really have without a star player like Jabari Parker? A squad of mostly top 30 high school players will have a tough time beating a team of mostly NBA players.
    We'd probably have about as much chance as our 2010 team would've had we played Kentucky in that year's tournament. They had five guys who were chosen in that year's first round, three in the lottery, including the overall #1. We had one guy chosen late in the first round not that year, but the following year, and then a freshman who didn't play much who three years later was chosen late in the first round, and even that was a surprise to many. So yeah, no way we could've hung with that Kentucky team. Except they didn't get far enough, as they got their clocks cleaned by West Virginia, who we then proceeded to blow out in the Final Four, before going on to win the whole thing.

    Don't get me wrong. I'd love love love it were we to get Jabari Parker, and he would unquestionably make us a much better team and he seems like a great fit for our school and our basketball program. But we would be very strong without him, and indeed be competing for championships without him as well.

  11. #271
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Nanjing, China
    I was mistaken on the order of Jabari's visits. The correct order is this:

    1. MSU
    2. Duke
    3. Florida
    4. BYU
    5. Stanford

    I'm still uneasy about Florida, even though nobody seems to be talking about them as much as MSU/Duke/BYU

  12. #272
    No idea whether this major change in LDS mission policy will affect Parker, but it's pretty big news more generally, and going forward.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebaske...byu-recruiting

  13. #273

    Hrmmm... 2010?

    Quote Originally Posted by licc85 View Post
    Yeah . . well, I don't want us to be just "OK" . . . I want us to win it all. You don't usually win it all unless you have at LEAST 1 or 2 all-american caliber guys on your roster.... WE NEED THIS GUY.
    I think the majority of our NCAA Championship team from just two years ago might disagree with you. That was part of what made that win even more satisfying than usual - trumping the one-and-done world of college ball, our seasoned savvy vets managed to string together six in a row.

    Do I want him? Sure. Do we "NEED THIS GUY?" Seems like a stretch. I'm a little weary of hearing hearing every year that if we don't get John Wall, Harrison Barnes, Parker... we might as well not show up the following year. We've got a good team.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain_Devil_91_92_01_10 View Post
    I think the majority of our NCAA Championship team from just two years ago might disagree with you. That was part of what made that win even more satisfying than usual - trumping the one-and-done world of college ball, our seasoned savvy vets managed to string together six in a row.

    Do I want him? Sure. Do we "NEED THIS GUY?" Seems like a stretch. I'm a little weary of hearing hearing every year that if we don't get John Wall, Harrison Barnes, Parker... we might as well not show up the following year. We've got a good team.
    Just playing devil's advocate, but Scheyer was an All American (Second Team, 2010). As was Nolan Smith (First Team, 2011). I agree with you that we've got a good team lined up, though. But I also agree that we'd be better with Jabari Parker.

  15. #275
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Northern VA

    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain_Devil_91_92_01_10 View Post
    I think the majority of our NCAA Championship team from just two years ago might disagree with you. That was part of what made that win even more satisfying than usual - trumping the one-and-done world of college ball, our seasoned savvy vets managed to string together six in a row.

    Do I want him? Sure. Do we "NEED THIS GUY?" Seems like a stretch. I'm a little weary of hearing hearing every year that if we don't get John Wall, Harrison Barnes, Parker... we might as well not show up the following year. We've got a good team.
    Quote Originally Posted by El_Diablo View Post
    Just playing devil's advocate, but Scheyer was an All American (Second Team, 2010). As was Nolan Smith (First Team, 2011). I agree with you that we've got a good team lined up, though. But I also agree that we'd be better with Jabari Parker.
    Sorry Mountain, but just because lightening struck someplace once doesn't mean you should expect it to hit there again, or to plan your recruiting around it. I don't hink anyone is seriously saying it is a binary, "If we get JP we win a Natty, but if we don't get him we won't." Frankly, ANY time you win the NC then you've beaten the odds for that season. Nobody probably enters a season with as much as 10% odds of winning it all - think in terms of "any one team versus the field." BUT, if a superstar player can improve your odds from 5% to 10%, then that is significant, as in "doubling your chances." Not saying that is the case, necessarily, for Jabari, but from all accounts he is a huge talent who WOULD significantly impact our chances (but we'd still have a shot even if we missed on him, like we did in 2010, after we missed out on Patrick Patterson, John Wall, and a few other recruits in the preceding years). But our odds would be better WITH him.
    -BDBD

  16. #276
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    Sep 2008
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    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by licc85 View Post
    Do I think we can win it all without him? Maybe . . . if a ton of things fall our way, but realistically, against a team with 4 or 5 lottery picks like UK . . . how much of a chance do we really have without a star player like Jabari Parker? A squad of mostly top 30 high school players will have a tough time beating a team of mostly NBA players.
    Let's wait and see how this year's Duke squad does against this year's Kentucky squad on November 13. Duke will have players ranked by the RSCI as #12, #14, #18, #21, #31, #32, #49, #61, and two unranked vs. Kentucky's #1, #8, #10, #19, #22, and #38 (at least four and maybe as many as six NBA players in a 6 or 7 man rotation). If Kentucky blows us out I'll revise my position on this, but I think our team is as good or better. And even without Jabari Parker I'd say our 2013-14 squad would have a similar chance to compete with the 2013-14 Kentucky squad.

    Quote Originally Posted by licc85 View Post
    In an age where John Calipari gets just about every player he wants, I think if want to be in the hunt for title #5, Jabari Parker is one of Duke's most important recruits ever. WE NEED THIS GUY.
    This is just a recipe for an ulcer. Calm down, man. He's not even close to one of our most important recruits ever.

  17. #277
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    Sep 2008
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    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by licc85 View Post
    With him, we are a virtual lock for a #1 seed and a huge favorite to reach the Final 4. Without him, we'll still have a great shot at a #1 or #2 seed, but final four expectations definitely won't be as prevalent. I think we'll be on the outside looking in as far as title favorites. UK will almost certainly still have more NBA talent with the Harrison twins and whoever else they grab (Probably Julius Randle and Andrew Wiggins).
    Also, let's face it. If Kentucky gets 4 of the top 5 recruits in the country (the Harrisons, Randle, and Wiggins, as you suggest), they're going to be the title favorite. If that happens, whether we get Parker or not we're going to be "on the outside looking in as far as title favorites."

    Doesn't mean we can't win, and having Parker would certainly make it more likely than without him, but even accepting your premise I don't think he's a "must have" recruit.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Let's wait and see how this year's Duke squad does against this year's Kentucky squad on November 13. Duke will have players ranked by the RSCI as #12, #14, #18, #21, #31, #32, #49, #61, and two unranked vs. Kentucky's #1, #8, #10, #19, #22, and #38 (at least four and maybe as many as six NBA players in a 6 or 7 man rotation). If Kentucky blows us out I'll revise my position on this, but I think our team is as good or better. And even without Jabari Parker I'd say our 2013-14 squad would have a similar chance to compete with the 2013-14 Kentucky squad.



    This is just a recipe for an ulcer. Calm down, man. He's not even close to one of our most important recruits ever.
    I dont think a game in mid November is a good measure of either team, which I'm sure you agree with. I just dont think the winner of that game is necessarily the better team.

    Also, I think its important for people on this board to remember that 2010 and 2012 was the exception, not the rule. Before 2010, no team had ever won a championship without someone being selected in that years nba draft, correct? and before last year, none of calipari's uber talented freshman led teams had ever won a title. but i think its equally important for us Duke fans to realize that the landscape of cbball has changed, and that it is helpful for teams to have those really talented freshman, even if they only stay for a year. Here's to JP coming to Duke. If he doesnt, we move on. We've won with less talented squads before.

  19. #279
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    Feb 2007
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    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by jennja01 View Post
    Also, I think its important for people on this board to remember that 2010 and 2012 was the exception, not the rule. Before 2010, no team had ever won a championship without someone being selected in that years nba draft, correct?
    No. Not correct. There may be others, but one I know for sure was 1991 Duke.

    2006 Florida as well.
    Last edited by tommy; 10-09-2012 at 07:29 PM.

  20. #280
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    Feb 2007
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    No. Not correct. There may be others, but one I know for sure was 1991 Duke.

    2006 Florida as well.
    Considering that the NCAA Tournament began in 1939, I suspect we can find lots of examples.

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