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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Wander View Post
    Careful. Road games are very hard, Temple is undefeated at home, and returns a bunch of players from a team that went to the tournament last year (and won a game in it).
    Note, however, that we are not playing Temple in their home gym. They're good, but they'd be better in Liacouras than they will be in Wells Fargo.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    Ken Pomeroy has Temple ranked at #44 which is significantly higher than Penn at #158. However, the Owls needed overtime to defeat the Quakers.
    Big Five games are often tougher than expected. Hard to extrapolate to non-rivalry matchups.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke71 View Post
    I couldn't help but notice that one of the game announcers picked up on a point that I've been a broken record on throughout the season, but DBR posters have been too busy being self-congratulatory to comment on. The announcer said something along the lines of "The last time that Duke had more turnovers than assists in games like they have had most of this year, they exited the NCAA tournament in the first round." Enjoy that ranking and the Sports Center highlights...that may be all we have to show for the season besides blowouts against inferior teams. Your speculations about playing time, point guards, etc. will matter little if that "minor" item isn't addressed...we ended up on the right side of the balance sheet tonight but we need to take care of that business consistently. Pretending that that isn't an important issue could prove deadly. Quinn Cook is doing his level best to tilt the stat column in the right direction as of late.
    No question that whenever Hubert Davis says something we should all stop what we're doing and comment on it. He said a lot of other things I thought were silly, but I'm not commenting on those either.

    Assist to turnover ratio is just one way of saying an offense isn't efficient. Except our offense this year is pretty efficient, so I'm not sure how much a/to matters. In 2006-07 (the year Hubert referenced), Pomeroy rated our offense as the 40th best in the country. This year, so far, he rates us as the 4th best in the country. Big difference. To me, that's more worthy of comment than either Hubert Davis's wisdom or your pessimism.

  4. #24
    Some stats I think are interesting:

    Miles, our one big man who has never been much of a shotblocker, has averaged 3.0 blocks per game in his last five games (4.0 in his last two).

    Andre, who people were legitimately claiming hasn't rebounded enough, is averaging 3.75 rebounds per game in his last four games.

    Quinn has a 10.5 assist to turnover ratio in his last five games (4.83 for the season).

    Seth tonight, playing alongside Tyler:
    17+ minutes; 1 for 8 shooting (1 for 3 from 2-point; 0 for 5 from 3-point), plus 2 for 2 FTs, for 4 points.

    Seth tonight, playing without Tyler:
    7+ minutes; 4 for 5 shooting (1 for 2 from 2-point; 3 for 3 from 3-point) for 11 points.

    Yes, I know it could still be a coincidence. But I don't think it is.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    No question that whenever Hubert Davis says something we should all stop what we're doing and comment on it. He said a lot of other things I thought were silly, but I'm not commenting on those either.

    Assist to turnover ratio is just one way of saying an offense isn't efficient. Except our offense this year is pretty efficient, so I'm not sure how much a/to matters. In 2006-07 (the year Hubert referenced), Pomeroy rated our offense as the 40th best in the country. This year, so far, he rates us as the 4th best in the country. Big difference. To me, that's more worthy of comment than either Hubert Davis's wisdom or your pessimism.
    I appreciate your optimism and your spin on the stats but I'll bet you've never donned a Duke BBall jersey in your illustrious travels...I have. Opinions by sideline swamis - whether erudite sounding or not - don't always address the core issues of the game. Be encouraged. Hot air cools off after a while...and just because Hubie played for the dreaded "other team" doesn't mean he's always wrong. It took some time and distance for me to appreciate some things about UNC after being programmed to detest all things UNC during my campus days, but there is much to be appreciated about our vaunted rival.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke71 View Post
    I appreciate your optimism and your spin on the stats but I'll bet you've never donned a Duke BBall jersey in your illustrious travels...I have.
    Hmmm...time to play the guessing game. Go Duke is telling me two Blue Devils originated from Wilmington, Del.

    Neither graduated in 1971. That's just what the clues are telling me, though.

    Although Carmen Wallace was one of my favorite players of the '90s.

    Well, now look at me, being all sexist. Could be a lady Blue Devil we have here.

    Nice to have you, mysterious former Blue Devil.

  7. #27
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    Dec 2011
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    Wilmington, DE
    Having the weirdoes come out of the woodwork isn't the point either. The point is "not focusing exclusively on creating your own shot", sharing the ball, and keeping your teammates engaged. Is that such an esoteric concept? Apparently the game has changed a bit in the last few decades. Long live "Sports Center" I guess. They rarely feature the girl highlights...why is that? John Wooden actually said in his twilight years before he passed away that he preferred watching the ladies games because they played the game the way it's supposed to be played.

  8. #28
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    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke71 View Post
    and just because Hubie played for the dreaded "other team" doesn't mean he's always wrong. It took some time and distance for me to appreciate some things about UNC after being programmed to detest all things UNC during my campus days, but there is much to be appreciated about our vaunted rival.

    I doubt that anyone discounts Davis' opinion because he went to UNC. We discount his opinion because he's not a very good basketball analyst. Just today he claimed - insisted, really - that one of Duke's strengths was offensive rebounding, while in reality this year's Duke team is fairly mediocre in that area.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    I doubt that anyone discounts Davis' opinion because he went to UNC. We discount his opinion because he's not a very good basketball analyst. Just today he claimed - insisted, really - that one of Duke's strengths was offensive rebounding, while in reality this year's Duke team is fairly mediocre in that area.
    Duvall:

    Touche. I agree with that point wholeheartedly.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Durham, within a couple of miles of Cameron

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    I doubt that anyone discounts Davis' opinion because he went to UNC. We discount his opinion because he's not a very good basketball analyst. Just today he claimed - insisted, really - that one of Duke's strengths was offensive rebounding, while in reality this year's Duke team is fairly mediocre in that area.
    Would Hubert have this job if he had not played at unc?
    I for one, discount his offerings, mostly because he rarely tries to distance himself from being a loyal tarheel, as opposed to Jay Williams' and Jay Bilas' obvious attempts at neutrality.
    But then, we've never had a thread on Jay Bilas, have we?

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke71 View Post
    I appreciate your optimism and your spin on the stats but I'll bet you've never donned a Duke BBall jersey in your illustrious travels...I have. Opinions by sideline swamis - whether erudite sounding or not - don't always address the core issues of the game. Be encouraged. Hot air cools off after a while...and just because Hubie played for the dreaded "other team" doesn't mean he's always wrong. It took some time and distance for me to appreciate some things about UNC after being programmed to detest all things UNC during my campus days, but there is much to be appreciated about our vaunted rival.
    While it's obviously great to have someone who has played at Duke here on the board, I wouldn't necessarily discount Kedsy's major point that overall offensive efficiency is more important than how you get there (whether high assist/TO ratio, Zoubek grabbing every offensive rebound, shooting a high effective FG%.) Of course, it is always better to have more assists than turnovers for a multitude of reasons, including that it is much more enjoyable for us fans to watch.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Washington, D.C.

    Exactly

    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    I doubt that anyone discounts Davis' opinion because he went to UNC. We discount his opinion because he's not a very good basketball analyst. Just today he claimed - insisted, really - that one of Duke's strengths was offensive rebounding, while in reality this year's Duke team is fairly mediocre in that area.
    Last night's game was the first time I've heard Hubert do a game. I definitely agree: he's just not that good. Very few insights. He's a big step up from Elmore, however!

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    Last night's game was the first time I've heard Hubert do a game. I definitely agree: he's just not that good. Very few insights. He's a big step up from Elmore, however!
    Personally, I think Hubert does an okay job. Other than Bob Knight and Jay Bilas (and personally, I like Dino Gaudio) there are few color commentators that add much beyond some running commentary to fill the air.

    On the point in discussion -- our turnover:assist ratio is a cause for some concern IF it does not improve going forward. Having said that, we've only lost one game so far -- we must be doing something right.

    I am enjoying watching both Tyler and Quin platoon -- play as hard as you can, come out and rest, go back in -- but Quin's low TO stat is pretty impressive. Of course, it is from a smaller sample against lesser competition so far. K said that Quin's injury was serious and that he's just getting back into form, so I imagine we will see more of him soon.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Seth tonight, playing alongside Tyler:
    17+ minutes; 1 for 8 shooting (1 for 3 from 2-point; 0 for 5 from 3-point), plus 2 for 2 FTs, for 4 points.

    Seth tonight, playing without Tyler:
    7+ minutes; 4 for 5 shooting (1 for 2 from 2-point; 3 for 3 from 3-point) for 11 points.

    Yes, I know it could still be a coincidence. But I don't think it is.
    Will have to pay attention to this going forward. If the ball moves that well with Quinn in the game, the rotation could shift considerably. Tyler could be relegated back to more of a high energy role.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Personally, I think Hubert does an okay job. Other than Bob Knight and Jay Bilas (and personally, I like Dino Gaudio) there are few color commentators that add much beyond some running commentary to fill the air.

    On the point in discussion -- our turnover:assist ratio is a cause for some concern IF it does not improve going forward. Having said that, we've only lost one game so far -- we must be doing something right.

    I am enjoying watching both Tyler and Quin platoon -- play as hard as you can, come out and rest, go back in -- but Quin's low TO stat is pretty impressive. Of course, it is from a smaller sample against lesser competition so far. K said that Quin's injury was serious and that he's just getting back into form, so I imagine we will see more of him soon.
    I actually don't mind Davis that much, either. He praised Duke considerably last night and didn't hesitate to say they have a legitimate shot at the Final Four. And I thought he knew the Duke players' strengths and weaknesses better than most color guys. He also gave Quinn a ton of praise. The offensive rebounding comment didn't make sense. And I also disagree that UNC gets the edge over Duke because of depth (something Len and Hubert both repeated) as I think in Miles, Andre, and Quinn Duke has far more experience on the bench than MacAdoo, Hairston, and Bullock at UNC. But otherwise he was pretty good with his analysis. Granted, the bar isn't set very high, but I'd rather have Davis than Elmore any day of the week, even if I'd prefer Bilas, GMan, or the General over all.

    As for the a/to ratio, as of last night we ventured into positive territory with 179 total assists to 176 total turnovers. Hopefully that will continue to improve. http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...ke-blue-devils

  16. #36
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    Raleigh
    I did not mind Hubert too much yesterday as he was a breath of fresh air over Elmoron.

    Did anyone catch The Sweaty One interviewing Beilein yesterday after the Michigan-Minnesota game on the Big 10/11/12 Network? He was amazingly calm and dry.

  17. #37

    Question for anyone....

    Can a 3 guard lineup work defensively against teams like UNC, KY and Syracuse with protypical small forwards that are 6'7-6'8. Hubert made an interesting point yesterday during the broadcast (and I know it has been brought up before on DBR) that Duke may have a problem matching up with HB of UNC because of size mismatches. Silent G could play a pivotal role as the team continues to develop in regards to matching up with those types of teams. If MG were to continue to develop and make shots, would the team ultimately be best starting MG and QC while bringing Seth, Andre and Tyler off the bench? I know it may sound crazy bringing Seth off the bench; but from a defensive matchup perspective, a starting 5 with MG and QC (again assuming MG consistently makes shots and QC improves defensively) along with Austin, Ryan and MP2 could matchup defensively with any team and still provide a punch offensively. In addition, the bench would be incredibly loaded with firepower bringing Andre and Seth off the bench to go with MP1, Tyler and Josh.

    I doubt it would happen and I can't see Seth coming off the bench because he is one of our 5 best players; but I thought I put this out there to get your thoughts. Please don't roast me too badly for mentioning this.

  18. #38
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    Feb 2007
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    Washington, D.C.

    It's a valid question

    Quote Originally Posted by Class of '94 View Post
    Can a 3 guard lineup work defensively against teams like UNC, KY and Syracuse with protypical small forwards that are 6'7-6'8. Hubert made an interesting point yesterday during the broadcast (and I know it has been brought up before on DBR) that Duke may have a problem matching up with HB of UNC because of size mismatches. Silent G could play a pivotal role as the team continues to develop in regards to matching up with those types of teams. If MG were to continue to develop and make shots, would the team ultimately be best starting MG and QC while bringing Seth, Andre and Tyler off the bench? I know it may sound crazy bringing Seth off the bench; but from a defensive matchup perspective, a starting 5 with MG and QC (again assuming MG consistently makes shots and QC improves defensively) along with Austin, Ryan and MP2 could matchup defensively with any team and still provide a punch offensively. In addition, the bench would be incredibly loaded with firepower bringing Andre and Seth off the bench to go with MP1, Tyler and Josh.

    I doubt it would happen and I can't see Seth coming off the bench because he is one of our 5 best players; but I thought I put this out there to get your thoughts. Please don't roast me too badly for mentioning this.
    Hubert did make that point, although I thought he made too much of it.

    Although I'd love to see Michael earn more minutes at the 3, last night's game didn't give me a lot of hope that it will happen this year. I thought our offense suffered when he was in. To be fair, he looked better the game before. Having said that, he didn't play much, if at all, until there were only about 10 minutes left, making me think that the coaches didn't think he had earned more time. (It's also possible they thought he didn't match up well with Penn's perimeter.)

    Also, although we may have a matchup problem with big 3s, especially those that post up, having the other team's 3 guard Austin or Andre can be a matchup advantage for us.

    I hope he earns the minutes this year, but he's got to improve quite a bit.

  19. #39
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Some stats I think are interesting:

    Miles, our one big man who has never been much of a shotblocker, has averaged 3.0 blocks per game in his last five games (4.0 in his last two).

    Andre, who people were legitimately claiming hasn't rebounded enough, is averaging 3.75 rebounds per game in his last four games.

    Quinn has a 10.5 assist to turnover ratio in his last five games (4.83 for the season).

    Seth tonight, playing alongside Tyler:
    17+ minutes; 1 for 8 shooting (1 for 3 from 2-point; 0 for 5 from 3-point), plus 2 for 2 FTs, for 4 points.

    Seth tonight, playing without Tyler:
    7+ minutes; 4 for 5 shooting (1 for 2 from 2-point; 3 for 3 from 3-point) for 11 points.

    Yes, I know it could still be a coincidence. But I don't think it is.
    In fairness, did you also run the same numbers for the WMU game? I would be interested to see those. I was at that game and Seth played at a high level the entire game, irregardless of who his running mate was. Not discounting your overall point, but also not convinced yet, the two things are related.

    I actually lean towards the thought the ankly injury Seth had, played more of a role in his mini-slump, than Tyler starting did. It will be interesting to watch this moving forward though.

  20. #40
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    Fayetteville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Class of '94 View Post
    Can a 3 guard lineup work defensively against teams like UNC, KY and Syracuse with protypical small forwards that are 6'7-6'8. Hubert made an interesting point yesterday during the broadcast (and I know it has been brought up before on DBR) that Duke may have a problem matching up with HB of UNC because of size mismatches. Silent G could play a pivotal role as the team continues to develop in regards to matching up with those types of teams. If MG were to continue to develop and make shots, would the team ultimately be best starting MG and QC while bringing Seth, Andre and Tyler off the bench? I know it may sound crazy bringing Seth off the bench; but from a defensive matchup perspective, a starting 5 with MG and QC (again assuming MG consistently makes shots and QC improves defensively) along with Austin, Ryan and MP2 could matchup defensively with any team and still provide a punch offensively. In addition, the bench would be incredibly loaded with firepower bringing Andre and Seth off the bench to go with MP1, Tyler and Josh.

    I doubt it would happen and I can't see Seth coming off the bench because he is one of our 5 best players; but I thought I put this out there to get your thoughts. Please don't roast me too badly for mentioning this.
    Your question is perfectly legit. I wrote several weeks ago that come March our starting line-up would be vastly different and some people were very skeptical about that. Well since then Andre has been moved into the 6th man role and we are witnessing a great competition between Tyler and Quinn for the PG job. I think it’s safe to say that the Curry experiment as our starting PG was about as successful as the Nolan Smith experiment was several years ago.

    Now everyone knew this team was deep, but the question was, would the pieces fit and could they play coherently as a team. I still believe this team will feature our longest bench in quite sometime. I’m also beginning to wonder if anyone aside from Austin is a sure bet to be a starter. Now I’m sure some will question what I’ve just said, but to me it’s looking more and more as each player develops that Coach K will go with match-ups.

    So now I return to your original question. You mentioned large wing players and specifically HB. Now HB is someone who doesn’t get much love around here and some even want to dismiss his ability, but deep down in everyone’s heart they know this is the one heel we really don’t have a proven answer for. Can I foresee a Duke line-up that has enough firepower to play a kid whose sole function is to stop HB? Yes, I do. Is that player Silent G? Again, yes. Is he there yet? No, he isn’t, but I see the physical skills and believe he can become that player by the time the season ends.

    Now I realize there are a lot of ifs involved in this. If Mason and Ryan can continue to be viable scoring threats. If Quinn becomes the PG that increases the offensive productivity of all the other players. If Austin/Seth continue their progression in becoming lights out scorers. If some or all of these things happen I could easily see us going with a purely defensive stopper on the wing. Heck we won a National Championship with Lance Thomas as our 4 and he wasn’t what anyone would call a gifted offensive player.

    This team is still in flux and I honestly believe we’ll see more changes to our line-up as the season progresses

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