Where are they now?: Neill McGeachy

[throatybeard]

I always wondered what became of Neill McGeachy, Duke MBB's head coach during the 1974 season, a 10-17 campaign you can read about in Brill 1986. McGeachy was saddled with the thankless task of following Bucky Waters, who had presided over a period of relative decline after Vic Bubas. (Not to dis Waters). That team may have struggled, but it did record the 1000th win in program history. It's also the team that lost the 8pt/17s game at Carolina. What Carolina fans never mention is that they had no damn business whatsoever trailing that Duke team by 8 points late.

McGeachy is the AD at his alma mater, Lenior-Rhyne. The math seems to indicate he's in his late 60s.

http://www.lr.edu/administration/neill-mcgeachy

I think we're all aware Bucky's still around, but Bubas (1927-) and Bill Foster (1930-) are also still kicking, despite Foster's heart attack in the 1980s.

[uh_no]

Not really relevent, but Bucky was by far my most favorite guy in press row to stand behind in the student section...(much more fun than "suspenders guy" at least...)

[PallasAthena]

I always wondered what became of Neill McGeachy, Duke MBB's head coach during the 1974 season, a 10-17 campaign you can read about in Brill 1986. McGeachy was saddled with the thankless task of following Bucky Waters, who had presided over a period of relative decline after Vic Bubas. (Not to dis Waters). That team may have struggled, but it did record the 1000th win in program history. It's also the team that lost the 8pt/17s game at Carolina. What Carolina fans never mention is that they had no damn business whatsoever trailing that Duke team by 8 points late.

McGeachy is the AD at his alma mater, Lenior-Rhyne. The math seems to indicate he's in his late 60s.

http://www.lr.edu/administration/neill-mcgeachy

I think we're all aware Bucky's still around, but Bubas (1927-) and Bill Foster (1930-) are also still kicking, despite Foster's heart attack in the 1980s.

McGeachy was the coach the first year we bought season tickets (the very same seats we still occupy!). It was pretty easy to get tickets; Dr. Pallas Athena was a resident at Duke Hospital, so we were able to buy the seats two-for-one. That's right, folks, $80 for TWO season tickets in Cameron Indoor Stadium. Been there ever since. Even though people sitting around us said things were on the decline, we loved the games and the atmosphere.

[Bob Green]

Not in Durham! End of discussion. Seriously, 8 points in 17 seconds. I usually get over things in a hurry, but almost 38 years later, I'm not over the 8 points in 17 seconds debacle.

[chrishoke]

Not in Durham! End of discussion. Seriously, 8 points in 17 seconds. I usually get over things in a hurry, but almost 38 years later, I'm not over the 8 points in 17 seconds debacle.

Many people forget that the same year, in Cameron, Duke had the ball out of bounds with the score tied with UNC, the in-bounds pass was stolen by Bobby Jones and he made the game winning lay up just before time expired. Two absolutely gut wrenching losses in Neil's only 2 games against the heels. I was an undergrad at UNC at the time, a big Duke fan, and attended both games. You can imagine the grief I took from my fellow heel students.

[arnie]

Many people forget that the same year, in Cameron, Duke had the ball out of bounds with the score tied with UNC, the in-bounds pass was stolen by Bobby Jones and he made the game winning lay up just before time expired. Two absolutely gut wrenching losses in Neil's only 2 games against the heels. I was an undergrad at UNC at the time, a big Duke fan, and attended both games. You can imagine the grief I took from my fellow heel students.

Actually, our Paul Fox seemed to passthe ball in stride to a streaking Bobby Jones. Those were two very difficult Saturday nights (both were afternoon games if I recall).

[Olympic Fan]

Neil McGeachy got the Duke job because of the timing of Bucky Waters resignation.

Bucky, who had signed a five year contract in the spring of 1969, had coached four years, going 17-9 (8-6 ACC), 20-10 (9-5 ACC), 14-12 (6-6 ACC) and 12-14 (4-8 ACC). That last season was Duke's first looking record in 34 years. His tenure was marked by the exodus of talented players -- from Jeff Dawson to Jim Fitzsimmons to Richie O'Connor to Sam May to Ron Righter to Dave Elmer (a big man who outplayed Tommy Burleson in a freshman game in Cameron). Worse, Duke spent the 1973 season on probation for two minor violations during the recruitment of David Thompson. Bucky didn't do them and knew nothing about them, but the culprit was a Shelby businessman who had in the past helped Duke football recruiting, He was not a Duke alum, but WAS working for Duke (at the suggestion of AD Carl James, a former football recruiter for the Devils).

Anyway, in the fall of 1973, Bucky went to James and asked about a contract extention. When James refused to commit to such an extention, Bucky quit -- in September! Caught without a coach, James called Adolph Rupp, who had been forced into retirement at Kentucky, and tried to bring hin in for one year as an interim coach. Rupp first accepted, but changed his mind after his estate manager died unexpectedly.

In desperation, James turned to McGeachy, a recently added assistant under Waters, and gave him the job. At the press conference where he was introduced, James made it a point that McGeachy was the new head coach ... not the interim coach. At the same time, he admitted that he would be undertaking a nationwide coach to find the best coach possible for Duk basketball.

McGeachy inherited a veteran -- albiet not all that talented -- team. Junior Bob Fleischer was a burly 6-8 bruiser. Chris Redding was a slender 6-8 scorer. Kevin Billerman was a slow, but very heady point guard. Junior Willie Hodge was a slender 6-9 junior forward, a very athletic kid from Texas, and one of just two black players on the team. Then other was freshman Edgar Burch, a potentially decent 6-2 wing guard guard from Detroit. Interesting that 1973-74 was the first year of freshman eligibility and Burch was the first freshman to play at Duke since Joe Belmont and Ronnie Mayer during the Korean War. He would flunk out after one season.

It wasn't a terrible Duke team -- the problem is that the top of the ACC was so darn good that season. NC State, of course, finished No. 1 and won the national title. Maryland finished No. 3 nationally and lost one game outside the league -- a heartbreaker at UCLA in the season opener. North Carolina was No. 5 in the AP poll going into the ACC Tournament. The amazing thing about those three teams is that they only lost to each other all year ... other that two losses to UCLA (one each by State and Maryland) and an NIT loss by UNC to Purdue (in a made-for-TV matchup, the NIT paired its two best teams ... both in the top 10 ... in the first round).

McGeachy's Blue Devils were blasted in two games with NC State and in two of three games with Maryland. But they did take Maryland to the wire in Cameron (losing 64-61) and in both games with UNC (losing in Cameron on Bobby Jones; steal and layup at the buzzer and in Chapel Hill on the Walter Davis miracle).

In the end, Duke finished 10-16 (2-10 ACC). The team's best win was probably a January victory at Princeton. After it all ended with an 85-66 loss to Maryland in the first round of the ACC Tournament in Greensboro, the players staged a sort of mini-revolt in the locker room afterwards, demanding that the school re-sign McGeachy and give him a chance. Their plea fell on deaf ears as James had already zeroed in on Utah coach Bill Foster who had his team in the NIT finals (and in that era, before NCAA expansion, that was a fairly big deal).

I've always wondered whether ot not McGeachy might have gotten another contract if he had beaten UNC at least once? Probably not ...

[CameronBornAndBred]

Neil McGeachy got the Duke job because of the timing of Bucky Waters resignation.

Bucky, who had signed a five year contract in the spring of 1969, had coached four years, going 17-9 (8-6 ACC), 20-10 (9-5 ACC), 14-12 (6-6 ACC) and 12-14 (4-8 ACC). That last season was Duke's first looking record in 34 years. His tenure was marked by the exodus of talented players -- from Jeff Dawson to Jim Fitzsimmons to Richie O'Connor to Sam May to Ron Righter to Dave Elmer (a big man who outplayed Tommy Burleson in a freshman game in Cameron). Worse, Duke spent the 1973 season on probation for two minor violations during the recruitment of David Thompson. Bucky didn't do them and knew nothing about them, but the culprit was a Shelby businessman who had in the past helped Duke football recruiting, He was not a Duke alum, but WAS working for Duke (at the suggestion of AD Carl James, a former football recruiter for the Devils).

Anyway, in the fall of 1973, Bucky went to James and asked about a contract extention. When James refused to commit to such an extention, Bucky quit -- in September! Caught without a coach, James called Adolph Rupp, who had been forced into retirement at Kentucky, and tried to bring hin in for one year as an interim coach. Rupp first accepted, but changed his mind after his estate manager died unexpectedly.

In desperation, James turned to McGeachy, a recently added assistant under Waters, and gave him the job. At the press conference where he was introduced, James made it a point that McGeachy was the new head coach ... not the interim coach. At the same time, he admitted that he would be undertaking a nationwide coach to find the best coach possible for Duk basketball.

McGeachy inherited a veteran -- albiet not all that talented -- team. Junior Bob Fleischer was a burly 6-8 bruiser. Chris Redding was a slender 6-8 scorer. Kevin Billerman was a slow, but very heady point guard. Junior Willie Hodge was a slender 6-9 junior forward, a very athletic kid from Texas, and one of just two black players on the team. Then other was freshman Edgar Burch, a potentially decent 6-2 wing guard guard from Detroit. Interesting that 1973-74 was the first year of freshman eligibility and Burch was the first freshman to play at Duke since Joe Belmont and Ronnie Mayer during the Korean War. He would flunk out after one season.

It wasn't a terrible Duke team -- the problem is that the top of the ACC was so darn good that season. NC State, of course, finished No. 1 and won the national title. Maryland finished No. 3 nationally and lost one game outside the league -- a heartbreaker at UCLA in the season opener. North Carolina was No. 5 in the AP poll going into the ACC Tournament. The amazing thing about those three teams is that they only lost to each other all year ... other that two losses to UCLA (one each by State and Maryland) and an NIT loss by UNC to Purdue (in a made-for-TV matchup, the NIT paired its two best teams ... both in the top 10 ... in the first round).

McGeachy's Blue Devils were blasted in two games with NC State and in two of three games with Maryland. But they did take Maryland to the wire in Cameron (losing 64-61) and in both games with UNC (losing in Cameron on Bobby Jones; steal and layup at the buzzer and in Chapel Hill on the Walter Davis miracle).

In the end, Duke finished 10-16 (2-10 ACC). The team's best win was probably a January victory at Princeton. After it all ended with an 85-66 loss to Maryland in the first round of the ACC Tournament in Greensboro, the players staged a sort of mini-revolt in the locker room afterwards, demanding that the school re-sign McGeachy and give him a chance. Their plea fell on deaf ears as James had already zeroed in on Utah coach Bill Foster who had his team in the NIT finals (and in that era, before NCAA expansion, that was a fairly big deal).

I've always wondered whether ot not McGeachy might have gotten another contract if he had beaten UNC at least once? Probably not ...

That's a great report, let me share a small follow up. My dad was a young doctor at Duke then and had always been an avid fan of the sports programs since his undergrad days. I'm not sure how he knew McGeachy, but they were friends. My dad even worked out some sort of program with him where faculty members would sponsor a few members of the team for dinner one night, which is how it ended up that we had the whole team over for dinner one evening. As a little kid, I was awestruck by the size of those guys dunking on the hoop in our driveway, it's a memory I will always have. Anyways...from the story my dad tells me, McGeahy and James did not have a bad relationship...they had NO relationship. James wouldn't even see McGeahy in his office to discuss his job, or how he was doing, or if he would be signed on for another year. Let me restate that...he would not even see him. Can you imagine an AD not even talking to his coach?
So my dad as he is often want to do, decided to see if he could make any headway himself. His solution was to talk to James, which didn't happen, so his next thought was to talk to someone who at least knew James on a professional level, and in this case he figured that Wallace Wade would be a good person to ask. Wade was retired and living on his farm in Durham, so dad took me out with him to meet Wade and pick his brain. Maybe WW wasn't tall enough, or couldn't impress me with his dunking, so I don't remember meeting him at all, but dad did talk to him and got some insight, but little in the way of a solution.
In the end of course McGeahy's contract was not renewed and Duke got Bill Foster. In hindsight, it's hard to find any fault with that hire and it layed the groundwork for where Duke basketball is today. But thanks to Neil McGeahy, I got to eat dinner with Terry Chili and a bunch of other guys that had to duck to get in our doorway. If any of y'all run into my dad at Cameron or a football game, feel free to ask about his attempts at getting McGeahy a contract extension, he tells it way better than I do..mostly because he isn't relying on the memories of a 5 year old kid.

[PaIronDuke]

That's a great report, let me share a small follow up. My dad was a young doctor at Duke then and had always been an avid fan of the sports programs since his undergrad days. I'm not sure how he knew McGeachy, but they were friends. My dad even worked out some sort of program with him where faculty members would sponsor a few members of the team for dinner one night, which is how it ended up that we had the whole team over for dinner one evening. As a little kid, I was awestruck by the size of those guys dunking on the hoop in our driveway, it's a memory I will always have. Anyways...from the story my dad tells me, McGeahy and James did not have a bad relationship...they had NO relationship. James wouldn't even see McGeahy in his office to discuss his job, or how he was doing, or if he would be signed on for another year. Let me restate that...he would not even see him. Can you imagine an AD not even talking to his coach?
So my dad as he is often want to do, decided to see if he could make any headway himself. His solution was to talk to James, which didn't happen, so his next thought was to talk to someone who at least knew James on a professional level, and in this case he figured that Wallace Wade would be a good person to ask. Wade was retired and living on his farm in Durham, so dad took me out with him to meet Wade and pick his brain. Maybe WW wasn't tall enough, or couldn't impress me with his dunking, so I don't remember meeting him at all, but dad did talk to him and got some insight, but little in the way of a solution.
In the end of course McGeahy's contract was not renewed and Duke got Bill Foster. In hindsight, it's hard to find any fault with that hire and it layed the groundwork for where Duke basketball is today. But thanks to Neil McGeahy, I got to eat dinner with Terry Chili and a bunch of other guys that had to duck to get in our doorway. If any of y'all run into my dad at Cameron or a football game, feel free to ask about his attempts at getting McGeahy a contract extension, he tells it way better than I do..mostly because he isn't relying on the memories of a 5 year old kid.

One of the really neat things about being a part of the "DBR community" is the history that many of the posters bring to the board-as in CB&B.Although this is not "history" per se, I wanted to add to the story above that McGeachy's daughter is Ashley McGeachy Fox, who for several years was a respected sportswriter for the Philadelphia Inquirer-quite attractive, by the way.... She left for, as I recall, an upward move-maybe to ESPN, I forget- but my point is that occasionally a Duke reference would surface in her column, and it sometimes had what I perceived to be an "edge" to it-which at the time surprised me, knowing of her dad's association with Duke. She seemed to be quite a talented, objective writer, but the comments above suggest the reason for her attitude. Godspeed, wherever you are, Ashley....

[hq2]

porn-star mustaches

Terry Chili?

[jimsumner]

Terry Chili?

Add Tate Armstrong.

[hq2]

Yeah, but as I recall, Chili was known for more than his mustache!

[77devil]

One of the really neat things about being a part of the "DBR community" is the history that many of the posters bring to the board-as in CB&B.Although this is not "history" per se, I wanted to add to the story above that McGeachy's daughter is Ashley McGeachy Fox, who for several years was a respected sportswriter for the Philadelphia Inquirer-quite attractive, by the way.... She left for, as I recall, an upward move-maybe to ESPN, I forget- but my point is that occasionally a Duke reference would surface in her column, and it sometimes had what I perceived to be an "edge" to it-which at the time surprised me, knowing of her dad's association with Duke. She seemed to be quite a talented, objective writer, but the comments above suggest the reason for her attitude. Godspeed, wherever you are, Ashley....

Never made the connection. Fox didn't use her middle/maiden name in her print byline. I do remember one of her early pieces as an Inquirer columnist at ACC tournament time. Fox described herself as a "Carolina gal" even though, in her words, she didn't attend UNC. Now the affiliation makes more sense.

[gotoguy]

McGeachy inherited a veteran -- albiet not all that talented -- team. Junior Bob Fleischer was a burly 6-8 bruiser. Chris Redding was a slender 6-8 scorer. Kevin Billerman was a slow, but very heady point guard. Junior Willie Hodge was a slender 6-9 junior forward, a very athletic kid from Texas, and one of just two black players on the team. Then other was freshman Edgar Burch, a potentially decent 6-2 wing guard guard from Detroit. Interesting that 1973-74 was the first year of freshman eligibility and Burch was the first freshman to play at Duke since Joe Belmont and Ronnie Mayer during the Korean War. He would flunk out after one season.

Great recap of the turmoil of the Duke 73-74 season by Olympic Fan. Bob Fleisher has always been one of my favorite Duke players and Chris Redding bears a remarkable resemblence to this years Ryan Kelly with beard. Edgar Burch did play as a freshman in 73-74 but the freshman recruits and my classmates for the 72-73 season, Willie Hodge, Paul Fox, Dave O'Connell and Terry Chili all played for the Devils as freshmen as 72-73 was the first year of freshman eligibility, not 73-74.

8 points in 17 seconds would have been moot if Pete Kramer, one of Duke's better FT shooters, not missed the front end of a one and one during that agonizing segment in Carmichael.

One last comment on Buckey who also had a career as a decent color man of ACC and other NCAA hoops broadcasts. When Bubas retired, two of his assistants, Hubie Brown and Chuck Daley, applied for the head coaching job. James was looking for a candidate with head coaching experience so he hired former Bubas assistant Waters who had left to coach West Virginia. Had anyone of the assistants McGeachy, Daley or Brown been hired full time by James, Duke basketball history might have been much different.

[hq2]

Had anyone of the assistants McGeachy, Daley or Brown been hired full time by James, Duke basketball history might have been much different.

Yes, but it's hard to say. People tend to blame Bucky without recognizing how difficult that historical era (the war, the race riots) was to deal with.
I certainly don't think Brown would have done much better; he's about as old school as Bucky was. Daly might have had more success, but who knows.
The admininstration did what they thought was right at the time; it just didn't work out that way.

[Indoor66]

Yes, but it's hard to say. People tend to blame Bucky without recognizing how difficult that historical era (the war, the race riots) was to deal with.
I certainly don't think Brown would have done much better; he's about as old school as Bucky was. Daly might have had more success, but who knows.
The admininstration did what they thought was right at the time; it just didn't work out that way.

When Bucky left for West Virginia he was the heir apparent to Vic. When Vic retired, somewhat suddenly, Bucky was hired as his replacement. I don't think there was much thought about doing anything different. I don't remember Carl James or others speaking of anyone except Bucky to replace Vic.

When Bucky returned, the world had changed, as has been alluded to. Bucky never seemed to be able to relate to the kids of the Vietnam era. I also think that the societal changes that took place led to Vic retiring as well. It was a hard time to deal with young people.

[77devil]

One last comment on Buckey who also had a career as a decent color man of ACC and other NCAA hoops broadcasts. When Bubas retired, two of his assistants, Hubie Brown and Chuck Daley, applied for the head coaching job. James was looking for a candidate with head coaching experience so he hired former Bubas assistant Waters who had left to coach West Virginia. Had anyone of the assistants McGeachy, Daley or Brown been hired full time by James, Duke basketball history might have been much different.

When Bucky left for West Virginia he was the heir apparent to Vic. When Vic retired, somewhat suddenly, Bucky was hired as his replacement. I don't think there was much thought about doing anything different. I don't remember Carl James or others speaking of anyone except Bucky to replace Vic.

When Bucky returned, the world had changed, as has been alluded to. Bucky never seemed to be able to relate to the kids of the Vietnam era. I also think that the societal changes that took place led to Vic retiring as well. It was a hard time to deal with young people.

I've wondered how interested Daly was in the Duke job. His Penn teams at the time were very talented, much better than Duke, and competed at the national level. Maybe the challenge of trying to restore Duke to a national power was an allure. I do know for certain from someone who played for Daly, that the Duke job was never mentioned by him to the team nor a rumor in the Penn locker room.

Neill seemed like a decent guy thrown into an untenable situation. It should come as no surprise that he did just fine. I'd just as soon forget the 1973-74 season, all things considered

[Olympic Fan]

I've wondered how interested Daly was in the Duke job. His Penn teams at the time were very talented, much better than Duke, and competed at the national level. Maybe the challenge of trying to restore Duke to a national power was an allure. I do know for certain from someone who played for Daly, that the Duke job was never mentioned by him to the team nor a rumor in the Penn locker room.

Neill seemed like a decent guy thrown into an untenable situation. It should come as no surprise that he did just fine. I'd just as soon forget the 1973-74 season, all things considered

Daly wanted the Duke job VERY badly in 1969, when Bubas retired ... he was not a candidate in the fall of 1973 (or spring on 1974) when the job opened up again.

When Bubas stepped down, AD Eddie Cameron had a choice of four candidates for the job -- and three of them are now in the Hall of Fame. He hired the fourth guy.

Daly, who was Bubas' top assistant, was regarded as a strong candidate. When Bucky got the nod, Daly went to BC for two years (replacing Bob Cousy), then to Penn. Hubie Brown, who was Bubas' freshman coach, applied, but never got a serious look.

In addition, Davidson coach (and Duke grad) Lefty Driesell, who was en route from Charlotte to College Park, Md., for the 1969 East Regionals didn't fly with his team. He drove on hios own and stopped in Durham on the way. I know he met with Vic and he tried to meet with Cameron ... not sure Cameron ever saw him. I know he never gave him a formal interview. Disappointed, Driesell went on to College Park. The day after Charlie Scott beat the Wildcats in the finals with a last-second shot, Driesell toured the Maryland campus and took the job there.

Like Daly, Driesell was no longer a viable candidate in 1973-74.

All in all, I can't complain about the way hirngs worked out. The 1970s were a tough decade for the devils -- at least until Foster got it going in 1977-78, but all that misery led to the greatest coaching hire in Duke (and maybe NCAA) history in 1980.

PS You are right, gotoguy, Burch was in the second class to play as freshmen. Do you remember Dave O'Connell from Cincinnati? Reputed to be a better leaper than David Thompson, OConnell was always hurt ... and when he did play, he could do little more than jump high.

[throatybeard]

When Bucky left for West Virginia he was the heir apparent to Vic. When Vic retired, somewhat suddenly, Bucky was hired as his replacement. I don't think there was much thought about doing anything different. I don't remember Carl James or others speaking of anyone except Bucky to replace Vic.

When Bucky returned, the world had changed, as has been alluded to. Bucky never seemed to be able to relate to the kids of the Vietnam era. I also think that the societal changes that took place led to Vic retiring as well. It was a hard time to deal with young people.

Everybody says this about Bucky Waters, and I'm not disputing it, because I wasn't around at the time. But I've always thought it odd, given that he started at WVU when he was just 30 and was still only 34 when he came back to Duke. So yeah, he's Silent and the kids are Boom by that point, but it's not like he's retirement age like Wooden in 1975, or Dean in 1997. I'm aware of all the societal changes at the time, but it still seems to me a little strange that a guy in his mid-30s would be incapable of handling 20-year-olds. Don't trust anyone over 30, I suppose.

[77devil]

Everybody says this about Bucky Waters, and I'm not disputing it, because I wasn't around at the time. But I've always thought it odd, given that he started at WVU when he was just 30 and was still only 34 when he came back to Duke. So yeah, he's Silent and the kids are Boom by that point, but it's not like he's retirement age like Wooden in 1975, or Dean in 1997. I'm aware of all the societal changes at the time, but it still seems to me a little strange that a guy in his mid-30s would be incapable of handling 20-year-olds. Don't trust anyone over 30, I suppose.

Nevertheless, all the transfers, Dawson, O'Connor, Fitzsimmons, etc. happened in a period of a few years. Bucky had a problem whether it was communicating with the college students of the time or something else.

The 1969-70 freshman team was loaded going undefeated. Only Gary Melchionni and Alan Shaw were left for Bucky's last season. What could have been?