Phase II - 2011-2012

[jipops]

Following the U-Dub game Duke's defensive efficiency is 2nd worst among the top 10 teams with a rating of 28th. Checking back prior years of kenpom records Duke has never finished this low on the defensive side. With so much clamoring over Quinn getting more minutes or dumping it down to the big guys more and more, doesn't it appear that the major point of focus should be elsewhere? I don't think it matters how many minutes Quinn plays or how abundant the Plumlees touch the ball in the post, if the defense doesn't improve March will not last as long as we would like it to.

Granted we have played a pretty rough stretch of schedule so far and the last 6 minutes or so of the U-Dub game skewed this, but that doesn't mask the fact that defense is still a problem. We have finished several games so far in a similar fashion as the last. I do expect this efficiency to improve over the next few weeks solely because of the schedule. But it will be interesting to see where we are around the early part of February. Sorry that would be outside of this defined phase so I guess let's say after Temple.

[Kedsy]

I don't think it matters how many minutes Quinn plays or how abundant the Plumlees touch the ball in the post, if the defense doesn't improve March will not last as long as we would like it to.

I think this is a good point. Less than stellar defense over the course of the 2008-09 season eventually led to us getting killed by Villanova. That season, K ended up popping Elliot Williams into the starting lineup to guard the opposing PG and it helped but apparently not enough. I think we have similar issues this season in containing the opposing ballhandlers.

Not sure who can step up this season, though. I suppose it's possible Austin will improve enough to start guarding opposing PGs, although so far we've seen no inclination on K's part to use Austin in that fashion. I'm not so confident that Seth, Tyler, Quinn, or Andre could consistently stay in front of a quick PG or slashing wing. And I found it interesting that in the minute or two that Mike played against Washington, he guarded Gaddy and Wroten (not Ross as many on this board predicted).

[MChambers]

Following the U-Dub game Duke's defensive efficiency is 2nd worst among the top 10 teams with a rating of 28th. Checking back prior years of kenpom records Duke has never finished this low on the defensive side. With so much clamoring over Quinn getting more minutes or dumping it down to the big guys more and more, doesn't it appear that the major point of focus should be elsewhere? I don't think it matters how many minutes Quinn plays or how abundant the Plumlees touch the ball in the post, if the defense doesn't improve March will not last as long as we would like it to.

Granted we have played a pretty rough stretch of schedule so far and the last 6 minutes or so of the U-Dub game skewed this, but that doesn't mask the fact that defense is still a problem. We have finished several games so far in a similar fashion as the last. I do expect this efficiency to improve over the next few weeks solely because of the schedule. But it will be interesting to see where we are around the early part of February. Sorry that would be outside of this defined phase so I guess let's say after Temple.

Thinking back on the games, I think Duke's defense has been pretty good for the first 25-30 minutes of all of the games other than tOSU. It's the last 10 or 15 minutes where Duke's struggled. Remember Belmont's comeback? And the MSU game? And Michigan? And now UW? For some reason, this team has generally struggled when up big in the second half. I don't know why this is the case.

[NSDukeFan]

Thinking back on the games, I think Duke's defense has been pretty good for the first 25-30 minutes of all of the games other than tOSU. It's the last 10 or 15 minutes where Duke's struggled. Remember Belmont's comeback? And the MSU game? And Michigan? And now UW? For some reason, this team has generally struggled when up big in the second half. I don't know why this is the case.

Tired legs, of course.

[roywhite]

Thinking back on the games, I think Duke's defense has been pretty good for the first 25-30 minutes of all of the games other than tOSU. It's the last 10 or 15 minutes where Duke's struggled. Remember Belmont's comeback? And the MSU game? And Michigan? And now UW? For some reason, this team has generally struggled when up big in the second half. I don't know why this is the case.

Interesting question. My sense is that this is due not only to the defense, but also to sub-par execution of the delay game on offense.

The delay game, which we've seen begun somewhere in the last 4 to 8 minutes of games over the years, has always been a little controversial.
However, some Duke teams have run this to near perfection; moving the ball around and scoring in the last 5 seconds or so of the shot clock.
This year's team is not at that stage yet, which may be a function of ball handling responsibilities that we see discussed in lineup comments.

[Kedsy]

Thinking back on the games, I think Duke's defense has been pretty good for the first 25-30 minutes of all of the games other than tOSU. It's the last 10 or 15 minutes where Duke's struggled. Remember Belmont's comeback? And the MSU game? And Michigan? And now UW? For some reason, this team has generally struggled when up big in the second half. I don't know why this is the case.

Well, Duke's defense is pretty good, overall. 28th in the country is better than 317 Division I teams. But even in the beginning of games it's not the suffocating defense we're used to seeing from Duke. For this team to reach its potential, our perimeter defenders need to lock down better and our 2nd big needs to rotate faster. It's not just at the end of games.

Having said all that, I'm sure the coaching staff is doing everything they can to improve our defense. Hopefully they'll succeed.

[roywhite]

Well, Duke's defense is pretty good, overall. 28th in the country is better than 317 Division I teams. But even in the beginning of games it's not the suffocating defense we're used to seeing from Duke. For this team to reach its potential, our perimeter defenders need to lock down better and our 2nd big needs to rotate faster. It's not just at the end of games.

Having said all that, I'm sure the coaching staff is doing everything they can to improve our defense. Hopefully they'll succeed.

Hi, Kedsy; did I see that you attended the Duke--UWash game?
Certainly seemed to me from watching on TV that our perimeter defense for the first 30-32 minutes was greatly improved...had rather obviously been a point of emphasis.
Was this your observation in person? Or do you remain concerned about the lack of one or more really good on-the-ball defenders?

[Saratoga2]

We have identified defense as critical to this teams success, and I agree with that. The question is how does the coaching staff address the issue?

Austin is a freshman still and we need to remember that he will have his difficulty defending big, esperienced and quick guards. Andre has the experience and has shown improvement in the defensive side but at the point we are operating by committee. Seth is experienced and has quick hands, but is not big, that quick or long. Tyler is neither big nor particularly quick but brings a vocal leadership to the floor, while Quinn is a freshman who is not big but has a little more quickness. It should surprise no one that while all of our guards are quality guys, none are super defensive players. There really aren't that many super defenders in the league.

From the standpoint of the offense, which has to be considered as well, we are going to want Andre and Austin on the floor for Starter minutes and Seth also, if he generates points (scores or assists) in the manner he started out the year. I feel that Quinn is showing the best ball handling skills on the team while Tyler has some advantage on the defensive side.

It appears that our major advantage is depth at guard and we also have Michael lurking on the bench. We started off the Washington game with a high pressure defense which seemed to take them aback. Washington adjusted and found that Wroten could take just about any player we could put on the floor.

It seems to me that we need to use our depth to keep the pressure on the opposing point. Make it hard for him to initiate the offense and stay in front of him by fighting through screens and keeping fresh legs in the game. A little bodying would also slow the opposing point down.

We did well for the first half against Washington and not well at all in the second half. Against OSU, I didn't feel we did well in either half. Perhaps we need to be satisfied with incremental improvement during the season and not expect the coaching staff can somehow make a silk purse out of a pigs ear.

[MChambers]

Interesting question. My sense is that this is due not only to the defense, but also to sub-par execution of the delay game on offense.

The delay game, which we've seen begun somewhere in the last 4 to 8 minutes of games over the years, has always been a little controversial.
However, some Duke teams have run this to near perfection; moving the ball around and scoring in the last 5 seconds or so of the shot clock.
This year's team is not at that stage yet, which may be a function of ball handling responsibilities that we see discussed in lineup comments.

This could be part of it, in the sense that the offensive struggles down the stretch have led to a lot of fast breaks, but that doesn't fully explain it. In many of the games, the offensive struggles seemed to be mostly at the free throw line, which shouldn't create problems for the defense.

[MChambers]

Well, Duke's defense is pretty good, overall. 28th in the country is better than 317 Division I teams. But even in the beginning of games it's not the suffocating defense we're used to seeing from Duke. For this team to reach its potential, our perimeter defenders need to lock down better and our 2nd big needs to rotate faster. It's not just at the end of games.

Having said all that, I'm sure the coaching staff is doing everything they can to improve our defense. Hopefully they'll succeed.

Agreed that it's not suffocating, although Saturday's first half was pretty darned good. Part of the success was UW missing makeable jumpers, but that wasn't all of it.

[Kedsy]

Hi, Kedsy; did I see that you attended the Duke--UWash game?
Certainly seemed to me from watching on TV that our perimeter defense for the first 30-32 minutes was greatly improved...had rather obviously been a point of emphasis.
Was this your observation in person? Or do you remain concerned about the lack of one or more really good on-the-ball defenders?

Yes, I was there. I thought our team defense looked much improved -- we covered the passing lanes better, fought through screens, didn't lose our men off the ball as much as we had in previous games. Andre, in particular, stuck to his man off the ball very well (with one exception when Andre tried to help inside and Ross ended up with a wide open three). Austin, too, for the most part.

But one-on-one, I do not think we were significantly better at staying in front of our man and keeping him from getting into the lane. Wroten did whatever he wanted (scored 9 of their first 11 points, mostly on drives) and Gaddy didn't appear to be pressured much at all, although Gaddy also didn't appear to be looking to score when he got into the lane and we were pretty good at making sure he had no easy passes to make. At the end of the game, probably because of our foul trouble, we didn't cover the passing lanes as well, and it led to a lot of easy scores for Washington.

I am hopeful we can continue to play the passing lanes well and stay with our men off the ball. But if the other team has a quick PG and/or slasher and they need to get a basket (because, e.g., they're trying to come from behind) I am concerned about our ability to stop them from getting into the lane. Against a team like Kentucky or Memphis (or Ohio State, I suppose), who plays a lot of dribble-drive and likes to do it right from the get-go, we're going to have to step it up if we want to win.

[robed deity]

One thing that has frustrated me is the tendency to give up leads. Duke had a 16 point lead to Belmont and won by 1. A 15 point lead to Michigan and won by 7. A 19 point lead to Michigan St and won by 4. A 20 point lead to Washington and won by 6. Even in the Davidson game, a 20 point lead was trimmed to a 13 point win. Now, it's great to get up by these margins against solid clubs, but it'd be nice to keep the foot on the gas. I guess this has to do with a combination of things-missed fts, poorly run delay offense, and lax D.

Also, if memory serves, opponents have had some meaningless threes go in at the buzzer this year. I can remember 2 right away. Obviously, that's going to happen sometimes, but 3 points is not insignificant when KenPom calculates PPP at the end of a game.

[MChambers]

One thing that has frustrated me is the tendency to give up leads. Duke had a 16 point lead to Belmont and won by 1. A 15 point lead to Michigan and won by 7. A 19 point lead to Michigan St and won by 4. A 20 point lead to Washington and won by 6. Even in the Davidson game, a 20 point lead was trimmed to a 13 point win. Now, it's great to get up by these margins against solid clubs, but it'd be nice to keep the foot on the gas. I guess this has to do with a combination of things-missed fts, poorly run delay offense, and lax D.

The good news is that this combination of things that led to the trimming of leads (haven't given one up yet) is very correctable and Duke has a pretty solid group of teachers. Part of the issue may be simply not knowing roles. Or it may be that the coaching staff hasn't really worked on this in practice, because it is still trying to get the basics down.

Personally, I'm trying to focus on how good Duke has been for the first 30 minutes in all but one of its games. But I share your frustration to some degree. Good thing it's December.

[superdave]

This Duke team does not have a defensive identity yet. I thought they would be a step or two closer by now to establishing a style but it seems like the experimentation will continue on this end until something clicks.

So far we've seen the team press and trap some and push the ball in transition as a result, play more of half court style that requires execution and efficiency and play some mix of the two. Please add in anything I may be leaving out.

We have a wealth of height and bulk up front and guards and wings. We have a lack of on-the-ball defense, rebounding (outside of Mason-Miles) and seem to be allowing too many easy buckets on defensive breakdowns.

The team arrived back in Durham on 12/26 and will have Western Michigan, Temple and UPenn to start establishing that necessary identity. So 6-7 practices and three games left in Phase II before the ACC begins.

Do we start settling into a rotation with all the guys improving their defensive assignments or does the lineup remain in flux because of breakdowns? I think the rest of the season turns on how this plays out. I really dont know what to expect but I think it's going to clear up a little over the next week.

[Bob Green]

We have a wealth of height and bulk up front and guards and wings. We have a lack of on-the-ball defense, rebounding (outside of Mason-Miles) and seem to be allowing too many easy buckets on defensive breakdowns.

I'm optimistic our on-the-ball defense will improve as the season progresses. I'm not expecting earth shattering improvement here but do believe we will see some improvement. Rebounding is definitely an area for concern and is one skill set where Andre Dawkins needs work. Dawkins is averaging 1.8 rebounds per game and has a total of two offensive rebounds so far this year. Comparing Dawkins to other wing players:

UNC - Harrison Barnes: 4.8 rpg
Kentucky - Doron Lamb: 3.8 rpg
UConn - Jeremy Lamb: 4.5 rpg
Virginia - Joe Harris: 3.5 rpg
Washington - Terrence Ross: 6.5 rpg

I'm a huge Andre Dawkins fan but it is evident he needs to become more active on the glass. Seth Curry (2.6 rpg) and Austin Rivers (2.5 rpg) have better numbers than Dawkins.

[superdave]

I'm optimistic our on-the-ball defense will improve as the season progresses. I'm not expecting earth shattering improvement here but do believe we will see some improvement. Rebounding is definitely an area for concern and is one skill set where Andre Dawkins needs work. Dawkins is averaging 1.8 rebounds per game and has a total of two offensive rebounds so far this year. Comparing Dawkins to other wing players:

UNC - Harrison Barnes: 4.8 rpg
Kentucky - Doron Lamb: 3.8 rpg
UConn - Jeremy Lamb: 4.5 rpg
Virginia - Joe Harris: 3.5 rpg
Washington - Terrence Ross: 6.5 rpg

I'm a huge Andre Dawkins fan but it is evident he needs to become more active on the glass. Seth Curry (2.6 rpg) and Austin Rivers (2.5 rpg) have better numbers than Dawkins.

Good stats, Bob. Duke is only out-rebounding opponents by about 3 per game. That has to improve or our steals have to go way up. With our ability to get to the free throw line (Mason, Austin particularly) do you send the guards to the paint to rebound on defense, play a more half court style and out-physical opponents? Or do you pressure a lot more because of our guard depth and play more up tempo? Or does it depend on the opponent? A lot depends on how Coach K sees this team executing on D. Seems to be very up in the air.

[tommy]

Good stats, Bob. Duke is only out-rebounding opponents by about 3 per game. That has to improve or our steals have to go way up. With our ability to get to the free throw line (Mason, Austin particularly) do you send the guards to the paint to rebound on defense, play a more half court style and out-physical opponents? Or do you pressure a lot more because of our guard depth and play more up tempo? Or does it depend on the opponent? A lot depends on how Coach K sees this team executing on D. Seems to be very up in the air.

Here's what I see: Our direct, on-the-ball pressure, particularly at the point, is below the standards that have been set at Duke. I don't see that changing much. Tyler gets in his man's grill, but too often his man just goes right around him, or through him. Quinn -- because of his knee? -- has not exhibited the ability to move his feet quickly enough to consistently stay with his man when his man makes a move to the hoop. I think we're going to see more improvement from him on this, but he's not going to be Bobby Hurley or Chris Duhon in this regard. At least not soon.

Without that real good ball pressure, I don't think we're going to be able to increase our steals significantly. If we want to push the ball, it's mostly going to have to come when one of our three bigs takes the ball off the defensive board. Fortunately, Mason Plumlee is one of the best defensive rebounders in the country, IMO, and has the ability to start a lot of breaks.

But if we want to get more easy hoops in transition, I think the guy who Mason or other rebounders need to find with that first pass isn't Seth or Tyler, but Austin Rivers. Austin is obviously our quickest guy with the ball in his hand. He hasn't shown that he's an elite passer in transition, but that's not the point. The point is that Austin has already proven to be near-impossible to stop in the halfcourt when he decides to go to the hoop. He'll only be more dangerous when he's got it in his hand in transition, when there isn't a wall of bigs waiting for him, and when even the smaller guys who are getting back are on their heels and backpedaling. I think Rivers should be leading the break whenever possible, and that's going to be the best way for us to force tempo. And of course the more we make people pay with Rivers in transition, the less aggressive the opponent will be in sending guys to crash the offensive boards, as they'll know they have to stay back. So our defensive rebounding numbers would stand to improve.

But besides not having elite ball pressure, I think our primary defensive deficiency as a team is handling perimeter screens. The smaller, screened man is not fighting through consistently enough, we're trailing behind on too many screens, and our bigs have too often not stepped up to challenge a shot coming off a screen. Of course, sometimes they have, but I think that's an area we need to improve in.

[Newton_14]

Here's what I see: Our direct, on-the-ball pressure, particularly at the point, is below the standards that have been set at Duke. I don't see that changing much. Tyler gets in his man's grill, but too often his man just goes right around him, or through him. Quinn -- because of his knee? -- has not exhibited the ability to move his feet quickly enough to consistently stay with his man when his man makes a move to the hoop. I think we're going to see more improvement from him on this, but he's not going to be Bobby Hurley or Chris Duhon in this regard. At least not soon.

Without that real good ball pressure, I don't think we're going to be able to increase our steals significantly. If we want to push the ball, it's mostly going to have to come when one of our three bigs takes the ball off the defensive board. Fortunately, Mason Plumlee is one of the best defensive rebounders in the country, IMO, and has the ability to start a lot of breaks.

But if we want to get more easy hoops in transition, I think the guy who Mason or other rebounders need to find with that first pass isn't Seth or Tyler, but Austin Rivers. Austin is obviously our quickest guy with the ball in his hand. He hasn't shown that he's an elite passer in transition, but that's not the point. The point is that Austin has already proven to be near-impossible to stop in the halfcourt when he decides to go to the hoop. He'll only be more dangerous when he's got it in his hand in transition, when there isn't a wall of bigs waiting for him, and when even the smaller guys who are getting back are on their heels and backpedaling. I think Rivers should be leading the break whenever possible, and that's going to be the best way for us to force tempo. And of course the more we make people pay with Rivers in transition, the less aggressive the opponent will be in sending guys to crash the offensive boards, as they'll know they have to stay back. So our defensive rebounding numbers would stand to improve.

But besides not having elite ball pressure, I think our primary defensive deficiency as a team is handling perimeter screens. The smaller, screened man is not fighting through consistently enough, we're trailing behind on too many screens, and our bigs have too often not stepped up to challenge a shot coming off a screen. Of course, sometimes they have, but I think that's an area we need to improve in.

I am not sure how high the ceiling is for this team concerning perimeter defense. I do think each of the guys can improve as individuals, some more than others, and that can translate collectively, but, "great perimeter defense" is not likely to be a staple for this team. Hopefully, it will be a case of steady improvement over the course of the season.

Mason is a great defensive rebounder, but I would add, that he is also a great outlet passer. Definitely agree that is something that needs to be utilized and taken advantage of. Also agree that hitting Austin with that pass is a good idea and one way to put pressure on the defense and yet another way to utilize Austin's skillset.

Disagree on one thing though. Quinn is actually the fastest Blue Devil with the ball in his hands. Austin is quick, but Quinn can go coast to coast with the ball quite a bit faster than Austin in my view.

Concerning rebounding, which we need to help offset the shortcomings of the perimeter D, we have to get more out of the 3 position. Andre is where that starts of course. Bob's numbers were disturbing. Especially the part about 2 offensive rebounds on the season. That has to change. This is one area where we really miss Singler. Whoever is playing wing-forward has to make it a focal point to crash the defensive boards, during normal course of play and on free throws. I noticed something in the last game related to this. UNC-G was shooting a free throw. Mason and Ryan were on the low blocks, and Andre and I believe Seth were on the high blocks. I expected Seth to take the shooter so Andre could crash the middle of the lane. (Singler got tons of rebounds from that spot on free throw misses). Instead, Andre took the shooter, and Seth didn't really crash the middle. With Andre's hops, he needs to play the same role Kyle played in that scenario.

The guys have had 4 days of practices to work on some of these things, so it will be interesting to see what improvements have been made and what changes K has made to various areas. Looking forward to the next week to ten days to see how the guys perform.

[Kedsy]

Concerning rebounding, which we need to help offset the shortcomings of the perimeter D, we have to get more out of the 3 position. Andre is where that starts of course. Bob's numbers were disturbing. Especially the part about 2 offensive rebounds on the season. That has to change. This is one area where we really miss Singler. Whoever is playing wing-forward has to make it a focal point to crash the defensive boards, during normal course of play and on free throws. I noticed something in the last game related to this. UNC-G was shooting a free throw. Mason and Ryan were on the low blocks, and Andre and I believe Seth were on the high blocks. I expected Seth to take the shooter so Andre could crash the middle of the lane. (Singler got tons of rebounds from that spot on free throw misses). Instead, Andre took the shooter, and Seth didn't really crash the middle. With Andre's hops, he needs to play the same role Kyle played in that scenario.

I know I have been somewhat of an Andre apologist on the boards lately, but I don't think it's fair to expect Kyle-style rebounding from Andre. Kyle played center his early years at Duke and was used to playing big man. He often lined up on the low block on free throws. Andre has never been asked to play that way at Duke.

This is especially true for offensive rebounds. Whether he's moving or standing still, Andre is always on the perimeter on offense, except for the rare case that he has the ball in his hands and drives. There just aren't a lot of offensive rebounding opportunities for a guy standing around the 3-point line. Whether or not he should be standing (or moving) around the 3-point line is another issue, but obviously that's where the coaching staff has asked him to be.

I believe Andre is big enough to defend most opposing SFs, but that doesn't mean he's not a bit undersized for the position. He rarely is going to have a size advantage on whoever is guarding him, and as I said his place in the offense will rarely put him in good position for an offensive board. Actually Austin should have a better chance to grab these rebounds, as he will much more frequently have a size advantage over the SG who's guarding him, and he almost always has a quickness advantage if he's inclined to slash for rebounds. He also spends more time inside the arc than Andre does.

Defensive rebounds are another story, because they depend on where the player you are guarding is located when the shot goes up. Andre can certainly improve there, but I don't think he should fairly be compared to 6'8" Kyle Singler, 6'8" Harrison Barnes, 6'6" Terrence Ross, 6'6" Joe Harris, or even 6'5" Jeremy Lamb. Based on his game and his size relative to his position, he should at least be as good as Seth and Austin, and he isn't but really he's not that far off (Seth's defensive rebound % = 7.4%; Austin's = 7.8%; Andre's = 6.9%).

For what it's worth, Andre has averaged 4.0 rebounds in his last two games (all defensive), so if he keeps that up maybe this is somewhat of a moot point.

[Newton_14]

I know I have been somewhat of an Andre apologist on the boards lately, but I don't think it's fair to expect Kyle-style rebounding from Andre. Kyle played center his early years at Duke and was used to playing big man. He often lined up on the low block on free throws. Andre has never been asked to play that way at Duke.

This is especially true for offensive rebounds. Whether he's moving or standing still, Andre is always on the perimeter on offense, except for the rare case that he has the ball in his hands and drives. There just aren't a lot of offensive rebounding opportunities for a guy standing around the 3-point line. Whether or not he should be standing (or moving) around the 3-point line is another issue, but obviously that's where the coaching staff has asked him to be.

I believe Andre is big enough to defend most opposing SFs, but that doesn't mean he's not a bit undersized for the position. He rarely is going to have a size advantage on whoever is guarding him, and as I said his place in the offense will rarely put him in good position for an offensive board. Actually Austin should have a better chance to grab these rebounds, as he will much more frequently have a size advantage over the SG who's guarding him, and he almost always has a quickness advantage if he's inclined to slash for rebounds. He also spends more time inside the arc than Andre does.

Defensive rebounds are another story, because they depend on where the player you are guarding is located when the shot goes up. Andre can certainly improve there, but I don't think he should fairly be compared to 6'8" Kyle Singler, 6'8" Harrison Barnes, 6'6" Terrence Ross, 6'6" Joe Harris, or even 6'5" Jeremy Lamb. Based on his game and his size relative to his position, he should at least be as good as Seth and Austin, and he isn't but really he's not that far off (Seth's defensive rebound % = 7.4%; Austin's = 7.8%; Andre's = 6.9%).

For what it's worth, Andre has averaged 4.0 rebounds in his last two games (all defensive), so if he keeps that up maybe this is somewhat of a moot point.

I don't disagree with anything you say here. I did not mean to imply Andre needed to rebound as well as Kyle. Sorry, after re-reading, I see my original post was not clear. Like you indicate, Kyle was a great rebounder for 4 years. Andre does not have that skillset. I do believe that Andre can me a better rebounder than he is now. The point about Kyle was really about how much we miss his rebounding from the 3 spot. No one person on this team can replace his rebounds from the 3. We will have to replace those rebounds by committee. All of the guys playing the 3, collectively need to rebound better is what I was trying to say.



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