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Thread: K 423, Dean 422

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    I carefully selected my military branch reference to the one in which I was a member so as not to insult the others.
    Jarhead will be pleased.

    Carry on, sir.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    I always drop the nuke on Carolina fans and bring up how Dean was almost fired because of his messy affair that led to the messy end of his first marriage. If you want to argue cursing, let's argue something more important! The most common reaction is "That is something I did not know until now. Huh."
    Nah. Any Carolina fan that doesn't respond to the simple logic of 4 > 2 isn't worth talking to.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by gus View Post
    Throaty, are you adding in the wins attributed to Coach Gaudet?

    That's the logic, right -- the whole season belongs to Coach K?
    I did not include the four Gaudet wins. I took the official total, which I think is 907, and subtracted 73. At least I think that's what I did.

    Someone brought up the point that the "at one school" business is silly, and I agree. Indeed, as legendary coaches move "up" if they have two or three jobs during their career, isn't it more impressive that they ran up a total while having to start over at a second school? Coach K could have bopped around in the Patriot league for another few decades, but instead took on a reclamation project. Brill always said Vince Taylor was Foster's last blue-chip recruit. Which means 1982 and 1983 were going to be hard no matter how you sliced it. Those could have been his sixth and seventh seasons at Army, seasons in which you really get rolling if you're doing a great job. Instead he took a huge risk in moving to a conference with a combination of good/great coaches--Smith, Driesell, Holland, Tacy, and two crackerjack contemporaries, Valvano and Cremins. And at a little private school, not the school whose name is the same as the name of the state, as Dave Odom would say. As impressive at Dean's career total is, I think it's more impressive that K has passed it when he "started over" at a second school, and that his main inheritance was a single year of Banks/Dennard and two of Vince Taylor. No disrespect meant to the other guys on those teams.

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    I did not include the four Gaudet wins. I took the official total, which I think is 907, and subtracted 73. At least I think that's what I did.

    Someone brought up the point that the "at one school" business is silly, and I agree. Indeed, as legendary coaches move "up" if they have two or three jobs during their career, isn't it more impressive that they ran up a total while having to start over at a second school? Coach K could have bopped around in the Patriot league for another few decades, but instead took on a reclamation project. Brill always said Vince Taylor was Foster's last blue-chip recruit. Which means 1982 and 1983 were going to be hard no matter how you sliced it. Those could have been his sixth and seventh seasons at Army, seasons in which you really get rolling if you're doing a great job. Instead he took a huge risk in moving to a conference with a combination of good/great coaches--Smith, Driesell, Holland, Tacy, and two crackerjack contemporaries, Valvano and Cremins. And at a little private school, not the school whose name is the same as the name of the state, as Dave Odom would say. As impressive at Dean's career total is, I think it's more impressive that K has passed it when he "started over" at a second school, and that his main inheritance was a single year of Banks/Dennard and two of Vince Taylor. No disrespect meant to the other guys on those teams.
    Unfortunately, this is logical and reasonable, not what you want when arguing with fans of the lighter blue persuasion. I think this is what you really wanted:

    http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/...-Duke-Argument

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by devildeac View Post
    Jarhead will be pleased.

    Carry on, sir.
    Growing up, I only heard Jarhead curse at Jesse Helms & the occasional drunk unc fan at Wallace Wade, though I would imagine he cursed at my older brothers, I know I sure did.
    -Son of Jarhead

    The Duke fan formerly known as BuschDevil

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuschDevil View Post
    Growing up, I only heard Jarhead curse at Jesse Helms & the occasional drunk unc fan at Wallace Wade
    Jarhead is now my new bestest friend. Double word score there.

  7. #27
    Next argument will be win percentage.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by airowe View Post
    Next argument will be win percentage.
    I bet you're right. No, I'm sure you're right. Good call.

    Dean Smith .776
    Krzyzewski at Duke .787
    Krzyewski overall .761

    Well now, any sane person would concede that this is all basically with the margin of error, concede that 1962-1980 and 1998-present are different eras, and would proceed to chill out. But almost none of theirs are sane and I'm not real optimistic about ours, frankly.

    So Dean is +.015 overall but -.011 when both guys were at ACC schools. Also, this is the finally the spot where the Carolina fans would benefit from sticking him with Gaudet's losses. Interestingly, with the Ohio State woodsheding the other night, Coach is at 285 losses, so those phantom Gaudet losses his fake spine is supposedly responsible for in Carolinanschauung--those would put him at exactly 300. Four more wins gives you 911-300, so that takes his overall win-% all the whopping way down to .759. That amazes me. Allow them their Gaudet lust and it knocks him down a whopping .002. I wouldn't believe that if I hadn't actually hit the buttons on the calculator. For the group, there's some defense. Next time some antagonistic UNC instigator brings Gaudet up, shove that up their...rhetorical opening. .002.

    Mind you, K's 73-47 at Army ain't bad at all, .608. I'm not going to sit down and figure out what it would take over this season (thru age 65) and, say, seven more (2019, or thru his age 72 season) to "make up" the .015 to atone for his "lesser" three-fifths winning percentage at Army. But it wouldn't hurt to average .800, I guess. Win four out of every five. Since we had our last "lousy" season (2007, 22-11, or, wait for it, two-thirds), excluding this year so far, he went 125-23 (.844). And it doesn't hurt that the ACC seems to be getting suckier.

    At this point, it's instructive to pause. The one allegedly "lousy" season since the mid-90s health issues (including 1996 in that) still saw the team win .667 and go .500 in the league. That's the "bad" season. That's sick! In the last four seasons, we won a title that shut everyone pro- and contra Duke up for a hot minute, but there was a ludicrous amount of grave-dancing/rending of royal blue garments in the other three seasons, which included two ACC titles but ended in the S16 twice and the 2R once. In 2007-08 thru 2010-11, the team is 102 games over .500. Or, .845. 108 games over .500 if you include this year so far. In those four complete seasons Duke is averaging over 25 games/year above .500. What? Yeah.

    So, who knows, but a few more 30-win seasons may put the win-percentage argument out to pasture as well.

    I think it would be funny if he petitioned the NCAA to give him the 4-15 and then still smoked Dean with like a .795 career win percentage or something.

    We're so spoiled that not only do we not know how spoiled we are, you're surprised when you go in with a non-spoiled attitude and find out we're even more spoiled than you thought past that. Or something.
    Last edited by throatybeard; 12-01-2011 at 02:40 AM.

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by airowe View Post
    Next argument will be win percentage.
    Well, K has a much better win percentage AT DUKE than Dean, but I know they will try to have it both ways.

    I always felt that K getting to 880 at Duke was the most important number (at least to me, more than 903), but then I was a senior when Dean got 879...
    ___________________
    Mike Stein
    Trinity '97, Tent #1 '97
    Tampa

  10. #30
    I calculated it the other day and as long as Duke keeps at about the rate they've been winning lately, it will take about 7 years for K to improve his win percentage to even with Dean. I have a feeling that benchmark will be gone soon to so the goalposts will need to be moved once more.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    i always drop the nuke on carolina fans and bring up how dean was almost fired because of his messy affair that led to the messy end of his first marriage. if you want to argue cursing, let's argue something more important! The most common reaction is "that is something i did not know until now. Huh."
    more info, please !!!!

  12. #32
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    While watching the game, I began to wonder if it's possible Mike Krzyzewski will have half of Duke's all-time wins when he retires.

    I think we're at 917 career wins, but you have to subtract the Army wins, so that knocks it down to 843. I added up the total of all the other guys as listed in the Wiki article and got 1115, which sounds about right, because McGeachy's team won #1000 in 1974, and Foster won 113. Further, you have to include Gaudet's four wins. So that's 1119 non-Krzyzewski wins.

    So 274 wins or thereabouts. Even at the recent pace, which can't necessarily be assumed, you're looking at nine or ten seasons. He turns 65 next month. You'd be looking at his age-74 or age-75 season, and a career total close to 1200.

    Doesn't seem too likely. Then again, I didn't really think human civilization would last this long. 2012. We're already living in the future.
    Last edited by throatybeard; 01-28-2012 at 01:56 PM.

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  13. #33
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    Mar 2009
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    Kannapolis, NC
    devildeac, thank you! I don't know how I missed that video in the past but it is a pretty accurate reflection of the conversations I have endured since I was a child. Again, thank you! I haven't laughed that hard in a really long time!

    As for the Coach K vs. Dean debate, you can't reason with those who are too ignorant to participate in the debate. No contest, Coach K is superior and they will never accept it.

  14. #34
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    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    But the other is just straight numbers. I note that, at 7-1 this year, Coach K has 834 wins at Duke University. The Carolina meme now is "wins at one University," solely because it allows Dean (2 titles) to still excel both K (4 titles) and RMK (3 titles), since the latter two coached at more than one school. Boeheim was in the neighborhood with the one-school thing, but he's in a wee bit of trouble, if I've seen the news. No disrespect.
    Funny to see this come back now that Boeheim is two wins away from catching Dean for most wins at one school. Could be one back in another twenty minutes.

  15. #35
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    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    Funny to see this come back now that Boeheim is two wins away from catching Dean for most wins at one school. Could be one back in another twenty minutes.
    DUKE REFS steal a win for Syracuse against West Virginia, Boeheim now needs one win to catch Dean Smith with 879 wins at one school.

  16. #36

    918

    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    I think we're at 917 career wins, but you have to subtract the Army wins, so that knocks it down to 843. I added up the total of all the other guys as listed in the Wiki article and got 1115, which sounds about right, because McGeachy's team won #1000 in 1974, and Foster won 113.
    Just a small corection. The victory over St. John's was 918.

    Easy to remember, K started the year at 900. After Saturday';s win, Duke is 18-3.

    BTW ... next time any Carolina fan gives you grief about Dean's winning percentage, ask him (or her) what Adolph Rupp's career winning percentage was. [Hint: it's .822 .. significantly better than El-Deano; and Rupp also won four titles ... like K, twice as many as Dean].

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    Just a small corection. The victory over St. John's was 918.

    Easy to remember, K started the year at 900. After Saturday';s win, Duke is 18-3.

    BTW ... next time any Carolina fan gives you grief about Dean's winning percentage, ask him (or her) what Adolph Rupp's career winning percentage was. [Hint: it's .822 .. significantly better than El-Deano; and Rupp also won four titles ... like K, twice as many as Dean].
    I find the whole idea of arguing with a Carolina fan amusing. They, at least the ones on IC, are completely crazy. It's like the old saying, "Never wrestle with a pig. You'll get dirty and the pig will enjoy it" (or something like that)

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyClark View Post
    I find the whole idea of arguing with a Carolina fan amusing. They, at least the ones on IC, are completely crazy. It's like the old saying, "Never wrestle with a pig. You'll get dirty and the pig will enjoy it" (or something like that)
    This is another expression I like:

    “Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.”
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  19. #39
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    Toledo
    On a hilarious note, I was just perusing the Carolina boards and, based on Wes Miller's recent five-game winning streak at UNC-Greensboro, they are calculating the odds of Wes overtaking K as the all-time wins leader after Wes takes over for Roy and averages 30 wins per year for 50 years. It seems that they've already got it figured out. I say that Dean's fall from the record books coupled with Roy's vanishing act in Tallahassee has really *&$#%! with them. And it's pretty fantastic.

    Along this same line of thinking, I would contend that there is also a very probable chance that Mike Krzyzewski's successor is Marylin Manson.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    Just a small corection. The victory over St. John's was 918.
    I was writing during the game and didn't want to jinx 918. Which ended up being a lot closer than expected.

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

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