I did not include the four Gaudet wins. I took the official total, which I think is 907, and subtracted 73. At least I think that's what I did.
Someone brought up the point that the "at one school" business is silly, and I agree. Indeed, as legendary coaches move "up" if they have two or three jobs during their career, isn't it more impressive that they ran up a total while having to start over at a second school? Coach K could have bopped around in the Patriot league for another few decades, but instead took on a reclamation project. Brill always said Vince Taylor was Foster's last blue-chip recruit. Which means 1982 and 1983 were going to be hard no matter how you sliced it. Those could have been his sixth and seventh seasons at Army, seasons in which you really get rolling if you're doing a great job. Instead he took a huge risk in moving to a conference with a combination of good/great coaches--Smith, Driesell, Holland, Tacy, and two crackerjack contemporaries, Valvano and Cremins. And at a little private school, not the school whose name is the same as the name of the state, as Dave Odom would say. As impressive at Dean's career total is, I think it's more impressive that K has passed it when he "started over" at a second school, and that his main inheritance was a single year of Banks/Dennard and two of Vince Taylor. No disrespect meant to the other guys on those teams.
A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
---Roger Ebert
Some questions cannot be answered
Who’s gonna bury who
We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
---Over the Rhine
Unfortunately, this is logical and reasonable, not what you want when arguing with fans of the lighter blue persuasion. I think this is what you really wanted:
http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/...-Duke-Argument
Next argument will be win percentage.
I bet you're right. No, I'm sure you're right. Good call.
Dean Smith .776
Krzyzewski at Duke .787
Krzyewski overall .761
Well now, any sane person would concede that this is all basically with the margin of error, concede that 1962-1980 and 1998-present are different eras, and would proceed to chill out. But almost none of theirs are sane and I'm not real optimistic about ours, frankly.
So Dean is +.015 overall but -.011 when both guys were at ACC schools. Also, this is the finally the spot where the Carolina fans would benefit from sticking him with Gaudet's losses. Interestingly, with the Ohio State woodsheding the other night, Coach is at 285 losses, so those phantom Gaudet losses his fake spine is supposedly responsible for in Carolinanschauung--those would put him at exactly 300. Four more wins gives you 911-300, so that takes his overall win-% all the whopping way down to .759. That amazes me. Allow them their Gaudet lust and it knocks him down a whopping .002. I wouldn't believe that if I hadn't actually hit the buttons on the calculator. For the group, there's some defense. Next time some antagonistic UNC instigator brings Gaudet up, shove that up their...rhetorical opening. .002.
Mind you, K's 73-47 at Army ain't bad at all, .608. I'm not going to sit down and figure out what it would take over this season (thru age 65) and, say, seven more (2019, or thru his age 72 season) to "make up" the .015 to atone for his "lesser" three-fifths winning percentage at Army. But it wouldn't hurt to average .800, I guess. Win four out of every five. Since we had our last "lousy" season (2007, 22-11, or, wait for it, two-thirds), excluding this year so far, he went 125-23 (.844). And it doesn't hurt that the ACC seems to be getting suckier.
At this point, it's instructive to pause. The one allegedly "lousy" season since the mid-90s health issues (including 1996 in that) still saw the team win .667 and go .500 in the league. That's the "bad" season. That's sick! In the last four seasons, we won a title that shut everyone pro- and contra Duke up for a hot minute, but there was a ludicrous amount of grave-dancing/rending of royal blue garments in the other three seasons, which included two ACC titles but ended in the S16 twice and the 2R once. In 2007-08 thru 2010-11, the team is 102 games over .500. Or, .845. 108 games over .500 if you include this year so far. In those four complete seasons Duke is averaging over 25 games/year above .500. What? Yeah.
So, who knows, but a few more 30-win seasons may put the win-percentage argument out to pasture as well.
I think it would be funny if he petitioned the NCAA to give him the 4-15 and then still smoked Dean with like a .795 career win percentage or something.
We're so spoiled that not only do we not know how spoiled we are, you're surprised when you go in with a non-spoiled attitude and find out we're even more spoiled than you thought past that. Or something.
Last edited by throatybeard; 12-01-2011 at 02:40 AM.
A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
---Roger Ebert
Some questions cannot be answered
Who’s gonna bury who
We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
---Over the Rhine
___________________
Mike Stein
Trinity '97, Tent #1 '97
Tampa
I calculated it the other day and as long as Duke keeps at about the rate they've been winning lately, it will take about 7 years for K to improve his win percentage to even with Dean. I have a feeling that benchmark will be gone soon to so the goalposts will need to be moved once more.
While watching the game, I began to wonder if it's possible Mike Krzyzewski will have half of Duke's all-time wins when he retires.
I think we're at 917 career wins, but you have to subtract the Army wins, so that knocks it down to 843. I added up the total of all the other guys as listed in the Wiki article and got 1115, which sounds about right, because McGeachy's team won #1000 in 1974, and Foster won 113. Further, you have to include Gaudet's four wins. So that's 1119 non-Krzyzewski wins.
So 274 wins or thereabouts. Even at the recent pace, which can't necessarily be assumed, you're looking at nine or ten seasons. He turns 65 next month. You'd be looking at his age-74 or age-75 season, and a career total close to 1200.
Doesn't seem too likely. Then again, I didn't really think human civilization would last this long. 2012. We're already living in the future.
Last edited by throatybeard; 01-28-2012 at 01:56 PM.
A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
---Roger Ebert
Some questions cannot be answered
Who’s gonna bury who
We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
---Over the Rhine
devildeac, thank you! I don't know how I missed that video in the past but it is a pretty accurate reflection of the conversations I have endured since I was a child. Again, thank you! I haven't laughed that hard in a really long time!
As for the Coach K vs. Dean debate, you can't reason with those who are too ignorant to participate in the debate. No contest, Coach K is superior and they will never accept it.
Just a small corection. The victory over St. John's was 918.
Easy to remember, K started the year at 900. After Saturday';s win, Duke is 18-3.
BTW ... next time any Carolina fan gives you grief about Dean's winning percentage, ask him (or her) what Adolph Rupp's career winning percentage was. [Hint: it's .822 .. significantly better than El-Deano; and Rupp also won four titles ... like K, twice as many as Dean].
On a hilarious note, I was just perusing the Carolina boards and, based on Wes Miller's recent five-game winning streak at UNC-Greensboro, they are calculating the odds of Wes overtaking K as the all-time wins leader after Wes takes over for Roy and averages 30 wins per year for 50 years. It seems that they've already got it figured out. I say that Dean's fall from the record books coupled with Roy's vanishing act in Tallahassee has really *&$#%! with them. And it's pretty fantastic.
Along this same line of thinking, I would contend that there is also a very probable chance that Mike Krzyzewski's successor is Marylin Manson.
A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
---Roger Ebert
Some questions cannot be answered
Who’s gonna bury who
We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
---Over the Rhine