MBB: Duke vs. Kansas Pre-Game and In-Game Thread

[77devil]

Excellent point, this is a big game for Ryan's defense. Miles, PLEASE no reach-in fouls. Mason, PLEASE watch the offensive fouls.

Jay Bilas had a good line about Mason. Anytime he dribbles more than once on a post move, it likely will result in a charge. Then there was the play last night where Mason channeled his inner Austin. He got the ball after a high screen and proceeded to dribble 8 or 9 times finally into his planted defender for a charge.

Even close to the basket, MP1 & 2 are still struggling to put the ball up without a dribble. But there are moments every game that give us hope that it will all come together for them.

[OldPhiKap]

Jay Bilas had a good line about Mason. Anytime he dribbles more than once on a post move, it likely will result in a charge. Then there was the play last night where Mason channeled his inner Austin. He got the ball after a high screen and proceeded to dribble 8 or 9 times finally into his planted defender for a charge.

Even close to the basket, MP1 & 2 are still struggling to put the ball up without a dribble. But there are moments every game that give us hope that it will all come together for them.

Agreed 100%.

And this was also a problem for Zoubs for all but the last month of his career. But, boy, when he learned that lesson he was a BEAST. So better late than never, and no reason to wait until February!

[gam7]

Okay, you got the big ones -- Final Four, regionals and ACC Tournament. Let's look at in-season tournies (championship game outcomes):


Great Alaskan Shootout: 1-2 (won in 1995-6, lost in 1998-99 and 2003-4 ... interesting that the two losers each ended up in the Final Four)
...
Trojan-Bud Light Classic: 1-0

The 98-99 Alaska loss was a memorable one. Cincinnati ran a great full-court inbounds play with just a couple of seconds left that resulted in a buzzer beating dunk by The Helicopter (Melvin Levett). The play looked very similar to the famous Valpo NCAA tourney buzzer beater, but Levett was able get to the rim rather than having to settle for a long 3. I thought that would be our only loss that year, and it was ... until UConn.

I don't remember a basketball tournament called the Trojan-Bud Light Classic, but I think my fraternity had a mixer by that name at Myrtle Beach before graduation. It was tremendous.

[Johnboy]

So, what defensive strategy will Coach K employ tonight against Kansas a team whose best player is 6'9" 235 lbs Thomas Robinson?

Will Coach K deploy the Atticus Finch defense? Will Tom Robinson bust up Duke's chiffarobe?







(Sorry, but it's not often we get such a juicy American Lit reference from a basketball opponent . . . )

[Reilly]

...


I count that as 15-7 in champ ... games of in-season tournaments under Coach K.

So 28-9 + 15-7 =

43-16 in championship games for Duke under K ... 73%

[lumberbaron]

So, what defensive strategy will Coach K employ tonight against Kansas a team whose best player is 6'9" 235 lbs Thomas Robinson? Coach K is a master strategist so I'm confident he has a solid plan. I see two obvious options (I'm sure there are more):

1. Take away Kansas' #1 option by double teaming Robinson. Perhaps he becomes frustrated, commits a silly foul or two and ends up on the bench for significant minutes.

2. Think Indiana and Marco Killingsworth a few years ago. Let Robinson get his but shutdown the rest of the team, which turns Kansas into a one man show.

I'm thinking Thomas Robinson is a bit of a ball hog so I'm leaning toward option #2. It will not surprise me if Robinson puts up impressive double-double numbers, but Duke wins the game with a solid team effort.

Bob, I hope like hell that's not what Duke does. I remember that game against Indiana--Duke was the far more talented team and Indiana hung in because Killingsworth was like a man possessed.

You double with the bigs because you're not afraid of that guy Withey hurting you, and you get the ball out of his hands and make somebody else beat you. The key, as it seems to be most every time Duke plays, is stopping guard penetration so they don't get easy looks from the guy driving or on easy dishes to the bigs.

Kansas plays good defense and chances are we won't continue shooting the 3 like we have, so we'll have to figure out how to score effectively in the half court. Can Mason give Robinson a battle on the offensive end, can Miles not drop the ball every time he touches it, and can Rivers finish in the lane and be smart enough to hit the open man rather than turn it over?

[Kedsy]

Can Mason give Robinson a battle on the offensive end, can Miles not drop the ball every time he touches it, and can Rivers finish in the lane and be smart enough to hit the open man rather than turn it over?

Can DBR posters refrain from snarky jabs at Duke players during a 6 and 0 season?

[crimsonandblue]

Well, I don't think "ball hog" is the right way to describe Robinson. He's their best player and only consistent inside scoring threat. As such, he should shoot a lot. And despite that, he's still averaging 2.3 apg, which is pretty good for a big man.

Also, if he was a ball hog, I'd suggest that a double team makes more sense. If you know he's going to shoot it, you send the help early and make his shot more difficult and/or force a turnover. If you know he's a willing and able passer, the double-team/trap is dangerous because he'll find the open man.

I'd expect we'll play straight up unless he gets close to the rim. In that situation, if our other big is nearby, he'll come over and try to block the shot.

As far as the overall defense, I'd be more concerned about keeping Taylor and Johnson from getting into the lane. If they get into the lane, it won't matter what type of defense we want to play on Robinson - he'll be getting uncontested layups when our big has to provide help defense.

Robinson is dealing with new looks and a new role with this Kansas squad. He was just an energy and garbage guy in a backup role to the Morris twins. Now, he's forced into a featured role and is seeing double teams with more frequency. He hasn't exactly looked great passing out of big-to-big double teams, but that's mostly because he's a little undersized (he doesn't look 6'10") and isn't all that experienced in being the focal point of an offense or the opposing defense. He has good vision, good handle for a big, and he's fairly skilled. But he's mostly an athlete.

It's an odd Kansas team for Self. Unusually thin, particularly up front. We'll struggle to score at times and have to rely on defense. If Withey and Robinson get in foul trouble, it will be a long night.

[lumberbaron]

Can DBR posters refrain from snarky jabs at Duke players during a 6 and 0 season?

Really? Is honesty not allowed here if it isn't pro-Duke? What is this, Fox News?

I root hard for Miles and am a huge backer of the Plumlees. Without them we have no defense, they cover up for a lot. Is it not fair to say that it's been frustrating to see Miles turn the ball over as much as he has?

[jamesfrommaiden]

If I hadn't already seen this Duke team play at the level they have against some tough competition I would be pretty worried going up against Kansas. These Devils have been tested early and have responded well. We have a more talented and deeper squad than KU. That is not a guarantee of victory, but I am confident in another Maui Championship tonight. If MPs 1 and 2 can control Robinson and the boards without fouling out we should pull it out. I don't know who Kansas will use to defend Ryan, but I believe this a big advantage for Duke. Lets bring home the first of many championships for the 2011/2012 basketball season.
LETS GO DUKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hurleyfor3]

I don't remember a basketball tournament called the Trojan-Bud Light Classic, but I think my fraternity had a mixer by that name at Myrtle Beach before graduation. It was tremendous.

Which product was the emphasis on, the former or the latter?

[-jk]

Really? Is honesty not allowed here if it isn't pro-Duke? What is this, Fox News?

I root hard for Miles and am a huge backer of the Plumlees. Without them we have no defense, they cover up for a lot. Is it not fair to say that it's been frustrating to see Miles turn the ball over as much as he has?

You can critique the team; that's never been a problem. But "can Miles not drop the ball every time he touches it" borders on destructively negative.

-jk

[tele]

I haven't seen Kansas play this seaon, but from the info here sounds like a good matchup. Should be a great game. The third game in three days for both teams is an aspect to consider too, for both teams. Be interesting to see how Coach K uses his bench, especially early in the game, might see more early substitutions and minutes for the bench than in the first two games. Go Duke!

[Bob Green]

Bob, as long as we have two big mobile guys in the middle we will contest Mr. Robinson and probably have the second guy try to swat the ball away -- not a true double-team but a help situation.

I'd expect we'll play straight up unless he gets close to the rim. In that situation, if our other big is nearby, he'll come over and try to block the shot.

If I had to guess, I would think we would aim to shut down Taylor. Let Robinson get his. Although "his" might not be as much as usual given he's 6'9" dealing with a pair of high-leaping, 6'10"+ big men at all times.

Bob, I hope like hell that's not what Duke does. I remember that game against Indiana--Duke was the far more talented team and Indiana hung in because Killingsworth was like a man possessed.

You double with the bigs because you're not afraid of that guy Withey hurting you, and you get the ball out of his hands and make somebody else beat you.

Thanks to all for the responses. It appears the consensus is we will double team (at least to a degree) Thomas Robinson in order to shutdown Kansas' leading scorer. It will be interesting to look for this strategy while watching the game tonight.

My follow on question is: will Duke's big men encounter foul trouble tonight due to the need to focus on containing Robinson? If yes, how does Coach K respond?

Miles and Mason have been prone to foul trouble throughout their careers, so we could see Duke playing a Ryan Kelly plus four guards line-up for significant minutes during tonight's game. Or, if Kelly happens to be one of the guys who picks up too many fouls, we could see a line-up of Plumlee (whichever one is not in foul trouble) plus four guards.

Interior foul trouble could result in some minutes for Mike Gbinije and/or Alex Murphy. I'm not too concerned as long as all three big guys don't become unavailable.

Thoughts? I'm excited for the game. Early season tournaments are exciting times, especially when you end up with a marquee match-up between two Blue Bloods such as Duke and Kansas!

[MChambers]

Thanks to all for the responses. It appears the consensus is we will double team (at least to a degree) Thomas Robinson in order to shutdown Kansas' leading scorer. It will be interesting to look for this strategy while watching the game tonight.

My follow on question is: will Duke's big men encounter foul trouble tonight due to the need to focus on containing Robinson? If yes, how does Coach K respond?

Miles and Mason have been prone to foul trouble throughout their careers, so we could see Duke playing a Ryan Kelly plus four guards line-up for significant minutes during tonight's game. Or, if Kelly happens to be one of the guys who picks up too many fouls, we could see a line-up of Plumlee (whichever one is not in foul trouble) plus four guards.

Interior foul trouble could result in some minutes for Mike Gbinije and/or Alex Murphy. I'm not too concerned as long as all three big guys don't become unavailable.

Thoughts? I'm excited for the game. Early season tournaments are exciting times, especially when you end up with a marquee match-up between two Blue Bloods such as Duke and Kansas!

I think you're forgetting Josh!

[camion]

Our bigs may get in foul trouble against Kansas, but they haven't shown that tendency so far this year. Miles and Mason have each had 4 fouls once in six games and Ryan has never had more than three.

Thornton on the other hand...

[Bob Green]

Thornton on the other hand...

I'm not worried about Thornton as we are deep at guard. I suspect Coach K isn't worried about Thornton's fouls as well and is probably telling Thornton to stay up in the grill of the man he is defending regardless of his foul situation. What's the worst case scenario? The team is in a situation where a reserve guard has to play minutes at a crucial point in the game, but Tyler Thornton fouls out so Coach K is required to respond by playing Quinn Cook. That's not a bad scenario from my perspective. Thornton and Cook are both awesome options to have available on the bench.

[blueduke59]

I'd like to see Cook get more action. As for the bigs I think foul trouble is a good possibilty. Robinson is pretty mobile and quicker than the Plumlees. If Kelly gets in foul trouble....that would really hurt. It would be nice for MP3 to get at least a couple minutes but that's a long shot

[tele]

Our bigs may get in foul trouble against Kansas, but they haven't shown that tendency so far this year. Miles and Mason have each had 4 fouls once in six games and Ryan has never had more than three.

Thornton on the other hand...

Thornton has been getting some fouls called, but I dont think this is an altogether bad thing, in fact I think it may help the team. Besides adding toughness, and spelling other players who are guarding the ball etc, Tyler is also contributing fouls to the team total. Unfortunately, games are called now in the sometimes mistaken belief that an equal number of fouls called on each team equates to a fairly and well called game. No matter if one team actually fouls more than another. So if Duke is going to be called for their "fair quota" of fouls, no matter what, it is preferable to have tyler contribute his five fouls to Duke's total, as opposed to phantom or touch fouls on say Andre or Seth. That way the refs can even up the foul totals and head off any "duke gets all the calls" nonsense, and still not make any borderline or just bad calls against Duke's starters. Kind of doing foul arbitrage in a way. Tyler can afford to give a foul, even a hard foul that prevents a layup, where another player may not want to and have to sit because of foul trouble.

[duke96]

The 98-99 Alaska loss was a memorable one. Cincinnati ran a great full-court inbounds play with just a couple of seconds left that resulted in a buzzer beating dunk by The Helicopter (Melvin Levett). The play looked very similar to the famous Valpo NCAA tourney buzzer beater, but Levett was able get to the rim rather than having to settle for a long 3. I thought that would be our only loss that year, and it was ... until UConn.

I don't remember a basketball tournament called the Trojan-Bud Light Classic, but I think my fraternity had a mixer by that name at Myrtle Beach before graduation. It was tremendous.

Which product was the emphasis on, the former or the latter?

Typically in Myrtle the Bud Light comes before the Trojan.