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  1. #1

    MBB: Duke vs. Kansas Pre-Game and In-Game Thread

    Wednesday! Blue Devils! Jayhawks! The Maui Classic Championship! Discuss here!

  2. #2
    Another quality opponent for our young team... Was the 2003 ncaa tourney our last meeting with the jayhawks?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by subzero02 View Post
    Was the 2003 ncaa tourney our last meeting with the jayhawks?
    Can't remember a more recent one.

    I have a KU popcorn tub on my kitchen counter from a visit to Allen Fieldhouse a couple years back. Should I hide it?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    pembroke
    Should be a good test for our big guys to go up aganist a more athletic team and a dominat low post player in thomas robinson to help lead up to nxt week aganist ohio state and sullinger.

    Duke 77
    Kansas 69

  5. #5
    So K goes after another championship tonight. Was wondering about his record in championship games. I didn't have a chance to look through all the yearly records to check for all the in-season tournaments, and I'm not sure whether some in-season tournaments would actually qualify as a championship ... some of what we know ...

    National championship games (4-4)

    Wins: 91 Kansas, 92 Michigan, 01 Ariz, 10 Butler
    Losses: 86 L’ville, 90 UNLV, 94 Ark, 99 UConn

    NCAA regional championship games (11-1)
    Wins: 86 Navy, 88 Temp, 90 UConn, 91 SJU, 92 KY, 94 Pur, 99 Temp, 01 SC, 04 Xav, 10 Bay
    Loss: 98 KY

    ACC Tourney championship games (13-4)

    Wins: 86 GT, 88 NC, 92 NC, 99 NC, 00 MD, 01 NC, 02 ST, 03 ST, 05 GT, 06 BC, 09 FS, 10 GT, 11 NC
    Losses: 84 MD, 89 NC, 98 NC, 04 MD


    ... so, that's 28-9 in those three big categories. Just insane. 28-9 is a stellar season-long record, when you are playing "warm-up" games ... 28-9 in big-time championship games (national title, go to the Final 4, ACC Tournament) - wow ...

    Duke has won Maui all 4 times, right? So, that ups it to 32-9 in champ games ...

    Don't know about other in-season tournaments, and whether some would count ... is the 1980-81 win over Detroit in the Iron Duke Classic a championship win? Is the loss that same year to Tenn in the Sugar Bowl Classic a championship game loss? There's a 1984-85 win over So Cal in the Bud Lite classic -- another championship? The loss in 1986-87 to Illini in a T'giving Classic. Isn't the win over Kansas in 1985-86 the pre-season NIT championship? (It's not denoted as such on the season database at goduke ...) And haven't there been others in NY (recalling DeMarcus getting one ...).

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    It is hard for me to remember a more testing and fast-paced start to a season. Ranked teams, games from New York to Hawaii, very compressed schedule . . . .

    This should be an interesting game. We are still learning to put it all together for 40 minutes, and it is a testament to the team that they have never folded when the games got tight. Seth, Dre and Kelly in particular have hit the shots when the game was on the line.

    Tonight is gonna be fun. Go Devils!!!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Charlotte, North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    It is hard for me to remember a more testing and fast-paced start to a season. Ranked teams, games from New York to Hawaii, very compressed schedule . . . .

    This should be an interesting game. We are still learning to put it all together for 40 minutes, and it is a testament to the team that they have never folded when the games got tight. Seth, Dre and Kelly in particular have hit the shots when the game was on the line.

    Tonight is gonna be fun. Go Devils!!!
    Austin is starting to show a tendence for big baskets as well. I voted for him as MOTM in the Michigan game largely because of his clutch 3 in the 2nd half to push back a Michigan run. It's the second game in a row where he was best in the 2nd half when the game was close. Austin clearly wants the ball in his hands in those situations. Between that desire to be the man and have the pressure on himself and his surly on-court demeanor, he's got a certain swagger and nastiness that reminds me of the attitude of one Mr. Laettner...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    I haven't seen Kansas play yet this year. But looking their roster, it doesn't seem like they have any sort of quality depth. Basically, it's Thomas Robinson inside, Tyshawn Taylor outside, and maybe Elijah Johnson setting things up. After that, there's not a lot of impact players. They have another tall kid (Withey) who rebounds and fouls a lot.

    Taylor and Johnson are pretty athletic, so we'll (again) need to focus on defending the perimeter. I'd take my chances with Mason on Robinson. Not that Mason would shut Robinson down, just that he can give him a tough game inside. But if Taylor and Johnson do what Burke and Hardaway did in the second half, we'll be in for a very very tough night.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    It is hard for me to remember a more testing and fast-paced start to a season. ...
    Last year (or a couple years ago), wasn't there a piece on DBR about the earlier and earlier starts to the b'ball season? I looked to see how many hoops games Duke had played before the last regular season football gameday was over. Since 1986, seven times we had played 0 hoops games when football ended, 4 times we played 1 b'ball game, 5 times 2 b'ball games, three times played 3 b'ball games, twice played 5 hoops games (and one of those was 2001 w/ 9/11 causing a later end to the football season). Starting in 2006, we've played 6, 5, 7, 6, 6 and now tonight is game 7 before the regular football season ends. Perhaps a little attributable to the 12-game football season, but also to the earlier hoops calendar. Think about life as a Duke player: China, MSG, Maui ...

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Mount Kisco, NY
    In doing a little pre-game research, it appears that UCLA did us a favor and kept it interesting against Kansas in the second half forcing Self to play his starters 30+ minutes. I was afraid they'd be the fresher team because they were up 17 at the half yesterday but that shouldn't be the case.

    The scouts have Thomas Robinson pegged as a pro and with the Morris brothers gone, he steps into the spotlight. He's played well so far. He's thicker than Mason, but an inch shorter. Tyshawn Taylor is a talented guard, but he seems like kind of a knuckle head in terms of getting in trouble a lot and being inconsistent. Elijah Johnson had a big game last night in the SG spot. I watched Kansas play Kentucky last week and was impressed by the 7-footer, Jeff Withey.

    We'll be favored, but I feel like it's a pretty even match. We go a few players deeper, but it's not such an advantage that it has to be "overcome". Should be a really good game.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I haven't seen Kansas play yet this year. But looking their roster, it doesn't seem like they have any sort of quality depth. Basically, it's Thomas Robinson inside, Tyshawn Taylor outside, and maybe Elijah Johnson setting things up. After that, there's not a lot of impact players. They have another tall kid (Withey) who rebounds and fouls a lot.

    Taylor and Johnson are pretty athletic, so we'll (again) need to focus on defending the perimeter. I'd take my chances with Mason on Robinson. Not that Mason would shut Robinson down, just that he can give him a tough game inside. But if Taylor and Johnson do what Burke and Hardaway did in the second half, we'll be in for a very very tough night.

    I agree. Kansas is thin. Self has just eight recruited scholarship players. Only one starter returns, Tyshawn Taylor, who runs the point. Junior forward Thomas Robinson played behind NBA lottery picks, Marcus and Markieff Morris. The question on him is whether he can be a versatile scorer, instead of just cleaning up the boards and putting back chippies. Loyola Marymount transfer Kevin Young, a 6-8 forward broke freshman records at Loyola Marymount for rebounds, steals and blocked shots, but he's light and may not have the power to muscle shots up. Incoming freshmen Jamari Traylor and Ben McLemore, whom they were counting on, were ruled ineligible by the NCAA. This is a much different Kansas team from last year's, and Self is probably looking forward to tonight's game to see how his team will respond to the challenge Duke presents. I really like Self. He's a good coach who's going to get the most out of his players, but I don't think Kansas has the talent to compete on the highest levels this year. For Kansas, it's all about preparing for the Perry Ellis era which starts next year. Go Duke.

  12. #12

  13. #13

    tourneys

    Quote Originally Posted by Reilly View Post
    So K goes after another championship tonight. Was wondering about his record in championship games. I didn't have a chance to look through all the yearly records to check for all the in-season tournaments, and I'm not sure whether some in-season tournaments would actually qualify as a championship ... some of what we know ...

    National championship games (4-4)

    Wins: 91 Kansas, 92 Michigan, 01 Ariz, 10 Butler
    Losses: 86 L’ville, 90 UNLV, 94 Ark, 99 UConn

    NCAA regional championship games (11-1)
    Wins: 86 Navy, 88 Temp, 90 UConn, 91 SJU, 92 KY, 94 Pur, 99 Temp, 01 SC, 04 Xav, 10 Bay
    Loss: 98 KY

    ACC Tourney championship games (13-4)

    Wins: 86 GT, 88 NC, 92 NC, 99 NC, 00 MD, 01 NC, 02 ST, 03 ST, 05 GT, 06 BC, 09 FS, 10 GT, 11 NC
    Losses: 84 MD, 89 NC, 98 NC, 04 MD


    ... so, that's 28-9 in those three big categories. Just insane. 28-9 is a stellar season-long record, when you are playing "warm-up" games ... 28-9 in big-time championship games (national title, go to the Final 4, ACC Tournament) - wow ...

    Duke has won Maui all 4 times, right? So, that ups it to 32-9 in champ games ...

    Don't know about other in-season tournaments, and whether some would count ... is the 1980-81 win over Detroit in the Iron Duke Classic a championship win? Is the loss that same year to Tenn in the Sugar Bowl Classic a championship game loss? There's a 1984-85 win over So Cal in the Bud Lite classic -- another championship? The loss in 1986-87 to Illini in a T'giving Classic. Isn't the win over Kansas in 1985-86 the pre-season NIT championship? (It's not denoted as such on the season database at goduke ...) And haven't there been others in NY (recalling DeMarcus getting one ...).

    Okay, you got the big ones -- Final Four, regionals and ACC Tournament. Let's look at in-season tournies (championship game outcomes):

    Maui Classic: 4-0
    BYU Thnaksgiving Classic (1987): 0-1
    Great Alaskan Shootout: 1-2 (won in 1995-6, lost in 1998-99 and 2003-4 ... interesting that the two losers each ended up in the Final Four)
    Coaches vs. Cancer: 1-0
    CBE Classic: 1-1 (won in 2010-11, lost in 2006-07)
    Fiesta Bowl Classic: 0-1
    Iron Duke Classic: 2-0 (the 1981-82 team lost to Davidson, but that was in the first round)
    Preseason NIT: 4-1 (lost to Indiana in 1996-97 title game,. won in 1985-86, 2000-01, 2005-06, 2009-10)
    Rainbow Classic: 1-0
    Sugar Bowl Tourney: 0-1
    Trojan-Bud Light Classic: 1-0

    I'm just counting "tournaments" -- not counting like the ACC-Big-Ten Challenge or the Wooden Classic that just involve just one game. And just counting records in championship games (for instance, Duke lost in the first round of the only Big Four Tournament that K participated in).


    I count that as 15-7 in championshop games of in-season tournaments under Coach K.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    So, what defensive strategy will Coach K employ tonight against Kansas a team whose best player is 6'9" 235 lbs Thomas Robinson? Coach K is a master strategist so I'm confident he has a solid plan. I see two obvious options (I'm sure there are more):

    1. Take away Kansas' #1 option by double teaming Robinson. Perhaps he becomes frustrated, commits a silly foul or two and ends up on the bench for significant minutes.

    2. Think Indiana and Marco Killingsworth a few years ago. Let Robinson get his but shutdown the rest of the team, which turns Kansas into a one man show.

    I'm thinking Thomas Robinson is a bit of a ball hog so I'm leaning toward option #2. It will not surprise me if Robinson puts up impressive double-double numbers, but Duke wins the game with a solid team effort.
    Bob Green

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    So, what defensive strategy will Coach K employ tonight against Kansas a team whose best player is 6'9" 235 lbs Thomas Robinson? Coach K is a master strategist so I'm confident he has a solid plan. I see two obvious options (I'm sure there are more):

    1. Take away Kansas' #1 option by double teaming Robinson. Perhaps he becomes frustrated, commits a silly foul or two and ends up on the bench for significant minutes.

    2. Think Indiana and Marco Killingsworth a few years ago. Let Robinson get his but shutdown the rest of the team, which turns Kansas into a one man show.

    I'm thinking Thomas Robinson is a bit of a ball hog so I'm leaning toward option #2. It will not surprise me if Robinson puts up impressive double-double numbers, but Duke wins the game with a solid team effort.
    I am hoping that Robinson continues the trend of players not shooting as well against Duke inside as you would think they might. This often coincides with Mason, Miles and Ryan contesting a lot of shots. What a great challenge inside for Duke in the next week with Robinson tonight and Sullinger next week. Go Mason, Go Miles, Go Ryan, Go Duke!

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO

    Swat Time!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    So, what defensive strategy will Coach K employ tonight against Kansas a team whose best player is 6'9" 235 lbs Thomas Robinson? Coach K is a master strategist so I'm confident he has a solid plan. I see two obvious options (I'm sure there are more):

    1. Take away Kansas' #1 option by double teaming Robinson. Perhaps he becomes frustrated, commits a silly foul or two and ends up on the bench for significant minutes.

    2. Think Indiana and Marco Killingsworth a few years ago. Let Robinson get his but shutdown the rest of the team, which turns Kansas into a one man show.

    I'm thinking Thomas Robinson is a bit of a ball hog so I'm leaning toward option #2. It will not surprise me if Robinson puts up impressive double-double numbers, but Duke wins the game with a solid team effort.
    Bob, as long as we have two big mobile guys in the middle we will contest Mr. Robinson and probably have the second guy try to swat the ball away -- not a true double-team but a help situation.

    sagegrouse

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    So, what defensive strategy will Coach K employ tonight against Kansas a team whose best player is 6'9" 235 lbs Thomas Robinson? Coach K is a master strategist so I'm confident he has a solid plan. I see two obvious options (I'm sure there are more):

    1. Take away Kansas' #1 option by double teaming Robinson. Perhaps he becomes frustrated, commits a silly foul or two and ends up on the bench for significant minutes.

    2. Think Indiana and Marco Killingsworth a few years ago. Let Robinson get his but shutdown the rest of the team, which turns Kansas into a one man show.

    I'm thinking Thomas Robinson is a bit of a ball hog so I'm leaning toward option #2. It will not surprise me if Robinson puts up impressive double-double numbers, but Duke wins the game with a solid team effort.
    Well, I don't think "ball hog" is the right way to describe Robinson. He's their best player and only consistent inside scoring threat. As such, he should shoot a lot. And despite that, he's still averaging 2.3 apg, which is pretty good for a big man.

    Also, if he was a ball hog, I'd suggest that a double team makes more sense. If you know he's going to shoot it, you send the help early and make his shot more difficult and/or force a turnover. If you know he's a willing and able passer, the double-team/trap is dangerous because he'll find the open man.

    I'd expect we'll play straight up unless he gets close to the rim. In that situation, if our other big is nearby, he'll come over and try to block the shot.

    As far as the overall defense, I'd be more concerned about keeping Taylor and Johnson from getting into the lane. If they get into the lane, it won't matter what type of defense we want to play on Robinson - he'll be getting uncontested layups when our big has to provide help defense.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by NSDukeFan View Post
    I am hoping that Robinson continues the trend of players not shooting as well against Duke inside as you would think they might. This often coincides with Mason, Miles and Ryan contesting a lot of shots.
    Excellent point, this is a big game for Ryan's defense. Miles, PLEASE no reach-in fouls. Mason, PLEASE watch the offensive fouls.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    New York, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    So, what defensive strategy will Coach K employ tonight against Kansas a team whose best player is 6'9" 235 lbs Thomas Robinson? Coach K is a master strategist so I'm confident he has a solid plan. I see two obvious options (I'm sure there are more):

    1. Take away Kansas' #1 option by double teaming Robinson. Perhaps he becomes frustrated, commits a silly foul or two and ends up on the bench for significant minutes.

    2. Think Indiana and Marco Killingsworth a few years ago. Let Robinson get his but shutdown the rest of the team, which turns Kansas into a one man show.

    I'm thinking Thomas Robinson is a bit of a ball hog so I'm leaning toward option #2. It will not surprise me if Robinson puts up impressive double-double numbers, but Duke wins the game with a solid team effort.
    If I had to guess, I would think we would aim to shut down Taylor. Let Robinson get his. Although "his" might not be as much as usual given he's 6'9" dealing with a pair of high-leaping, 6'10"+ big men at all times.

    On paper, I actually think we match up very well against Kansas. Looking forward to the game.

    - Chillin

  20. #20
    "To be completely frank with you, we came here to play Duke."

    Nice quote from Kansas coach Bill Self.

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