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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Norfolk, VA

    MBB: Duke vs Michigan Pre-Game & In-Game Thread

    Next up is Michigan and their 1-3-1 zone defense in the Maui Invitational Semifinals. The Wolverines played us tough last year in the NCAA Tournament.
    Bob Green

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    pembroke
    Should be a good low scoring game they have some solid bigs some good 3 point shooters and a game changer in Hardaway jr. For some reason i really dislike the kid Smotrycz and i hope we stick it to him tomarow. Wish mitch would of waited on his decesion maybe this would of factored into it.

    Duke 66
    Michigan 60

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Dallas
    Any idea which time is the Duke Michigan game? I need to set my DVR tonight.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by basket1544 View Post
    Any idea which time is the Duke Michigan game? I need to set my DVR tonight.
    I'd assume the 9:30 game. But I'd say that with very little confidence.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Charlotte, North Carolina
    This is going to be a tough game, make no mistake. That's a hard defense to crack, and Michigan can score it on the other end if you're not disciplined on defense. Our guys are going to have to come out sharp and playing with focus and intensity from the opening tip-off.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by davekay1971 View Post
    This is going to be a tough game, make no mistake. That's a hard defense to crack, and Michigan can score it on the other end if you're not disciplined on defense. Our guys are going to have to come out sharp and playing with focus and intensity from the opening tip-off.
    Agree. One thing the guys will have to guard against is falling in love with the 3. That zone will look so inviting, but Michigan wants you to shoot 30 three's. We have to insure we attack the zone and get points in the paint and balance it with three's at the right time. That will be key. That said, Andre could be a key guy tomorrow. If he is on his game, he could have a big night.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    pembroke
    its at 7

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Quote Originally Posted by basket1544 View Post
    Any idea which time is the Duke Michigan game? I need to set my DVR tonight.
    It is the 7 p.m. Eastern time game.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    This feels like the de facto Maui championship game. Michigan is probably a smidge better than us at this early point in the season (although, like many others, I subscribe to the thought that Duke will improve a great deal in-season [and I also believe Michigan's just very good]). Besides PG, the Wolverines return everyone from last year's team that gave us hell in the second round, and they seem to have found a very talented replacement at point in Trey Burke. They'll be the slightly more cohesive, better-executing team at this stage. Nothing that a hot shooting night or an advantage on the offensive boards couldn't overcome though. I also like that Coach K and staff have great familiarity with Maui and its format and how to prepare for it.

  10. #10
    If Michigan penetrates the lane like Tenn. did tonight, they will win.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by stixof96 View Post
    If Michigan penetrates the lane like Tenn. did tonight, they will win.
    No, because it will mean that we are gameplanning to take away the three- as we should against both Tenn. and Mich- two of the better 3pt shooting teams in the country (and most reliant upon the 3.) The key will be to force them to beat us in mid-range, rather than on 3's off the drive-and-kick- because you can almost be certain that we will press up on their shooters and make them drive past us.

    To me, this game is the ultimate test for this team's mindset early in the year. Will we settle for forced shots and three's that are out of the flow of the offense? Or will we methodically try to break Michigan down and continue to keep Miles and Mason involved in the low post? Will the Plums assert their dominance on the boards- especially offensively? Or will this different style of play force them out of their comfort zones? And how will we exploit our size advantage? WILL we exploit it, or will our bigs get drawn out to the perimeter and have trouble keeping up with Michigan's undersized lineup? Is this potentially a game where we might go to a lineup of 1 big + Hairston/MG/AM + 3 guards? How much time will Quinn Cook get, and how will he and Rivers do against this 1-3-1 defense. Both guys have the requisite ability to penetrate and make things happen against this zone, but will the decision making be there?

    Of course, we could shoot something crazy like 15-30 from three and just blow them out of the water. Here's hoping.

  12. #12
    So I paid a visit to Statsheet.com tonight and hours later came out with a few observations about the team to date. Posted these on another board, figured I'd share here as well. Take these for whatever you will:


    In thinking about Mason's improvement this year and his increased role on this team, I ventured over to Statsheet.com (only go there if you want to lose the next 4 hours of your life) and performed an interesting comparison- Jr year Tyler Zeller to Jr year Mase. Mason compares favorably (excepting his one achilles, that darned FT shooting- and even there, at this point he gets to the line more frequently than just about anyone. C'mon Mase, surely you can be >50% from the line!)



    http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/com...ller=2010-2011



    I also decided to run Austin Rivers' current performance against freshmen Kyrie Irving, Jason Williams, Harry Barnes (just for hype's sake, not similar players,) JJ Redick and Senior Daniel Ewing (because that was the first year Dan's usage % came close to the other guys, and because he was playing the role of a natural SG handling the ball quite a bit on a team without a pure PG in the starting lineup.) I'll let you all check it out, but Austin definitely holds his own amongst that elite company and some of his numbers are eerily similar to the other guys in various categories. Bare in mind that those guys had an entire season (ok, not Kyrie... sniffle) to grow so it's understandable that their numbers are better than Austin's. Also, those are some of the best freshmen to ever play the game (and a senior Daniel Ewing isn't bad either.) Austin is definitely holding his own.



    http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/com...5=daniel-ewing



    Other observations:



    -Mason's fouls per game has gone down each year he has been at Duke. He's doing a great job of staying on the floor so far this year.

    -Andre is playing more mpg this year, but his usage percentage and offensive efficiency is about the same (so far.) What has changed is that he is getting more time (thanks to improved defense and opportunity, I would imagine.)

    -Seth is in a new role, but he is also stepping up rather significantly. Through 5 games, his usage is up 5% while all of his shooting percentages are also up, he's getting to the line more often, while also improving his #s in rebounds, assists and steals. Really, the only downside is the turnovers, but he still holds an A/TO ratio of 1.5

    -Similarly, Ryan's usage is up but his efficiency is up almost across the board as well: he's shooting a better % from 2, 3 and the FT line; he's improved his rebounding efficiency (which takes PT/tempo into account.) His blocks are a little down (early) and his turnovers a little up, but overall the numbers support what I have seen with my eyes- RKelly is a player!

    -Meanwhile, Miles' offensive usage is up but he has yet to match his past efficiency on the offensive end. He's getting to the line at a fantastic rate, but has regressed in his FT shooting (so has Mason.) He's getting a higher percentage of his points from the FT line, but there are more available if he can just get back to his previous career high of a 66% FT percentage (his Soph. season.) Interestingly, he is playing almost an identical MPG as he has the past 2 years. Something tells me that there is more that PlumOne has to offer, and I think he will perform better as the year goes on.



    -Overall, it seems like the majority of the returning guys are ceasing the opportunity for bigger roles and putting forth better and more efficient all-around performances than they have to date in their careers. The one area where each of them has gotten worse is turnover rate, which tells me that these guys are still getting accustomed to the larger roles (read: usage %) that they are taking. I think this team will get better at valuing the ball, rebounding and applying ball pressure as the year goes on. And for the love of God, I just hope that Miles and Mason can figure out the free throw shooting thing! Otherwise, a lot of encouraging things on this team's statsheet profile to date!

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieTiger View Post
    I also decided to run Austin Rivers' current performance against freshmen Kyrie Irving, Jason Williams, Harry Barnes (just for hype's sake, not similar players,) JJ Redick and Senior Daniel Ewing (because that was the first year Dan's usage % came close to the other guys, and because he was playing the role of a natural SG handling the ball quite a bit on a team without a pure PG in the starting lineup.) I'll let you all check it out, but Austin definitely holds his own amongst that elite company and some of his numbers are eerily similar to the other guys in various categories. Bare in mind that those guys had an entire season (ok, not Kyrie... sniffle) to grow so it's understandable that their numbers are better than Austin's. Also, those are some of the best freshmen to ever play the game (and a senior Daniel Ewing isn't bad either.) Austin is definitely holding his own.
    Good stuff, thanks. It reinforces my opinion that Austin is doing just fine so far.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieTiger View Post
    So I paid a visit to Statsheet.com tonight and hours later came out with a few observations about the team to date. Posted these on another board, figured I'd share here as well. Take these for whatever you will:


    In thinking about Mason's improvement this year and his increased role on this team, I ventured over to Statsheet.com (only go there if you want to lose the next 4 hours of your life) and performed an interesting comparison- Jr year Tyler Zeller to Jr year Mase. Mason compares favorably (excepting his one achilles, that darned FT shooting- and even there, at this point he gets to the line more frequently than just about anyone. C'mon Mase, surely you can be >50% from the line!)

    Free throw shooting is such a problem for the two Plumlees- particularly Mason. This is something that you have to practice over and over again. Mason has decent form but it is not a very reliable shot. He has not figured it out. Ryan is money from the line- Mason is not. Very frustrating because this is something that can be fixed with lots of hours. That said, he has worked on his hook and footwork. Overall, Mason has shown improvement and is becoming a rebounding machine.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by dukelifer View Post
    Free throw shooting is such a problem for the two Plumlees- particularly Mason. This is something that you have to practice over and over again. Mason has decent form but it is not a very reliable shot. He has not figured it out. Ryan is money from the line- Mason is not. Very frustrating because this is something that can be fixed with lots of hours. That said, he has worked on his hook and footwork. Overall, Mason has shown improvement and is becoming a rebounding machine.
    I've heard he practices free throw shooting a lot. I think it's at least as much in his head as in his form or lack of practice.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by dukelifer View Post
    Free throw shooting is such a problem for the two Plumlees- particularly Mason. This is something that you have to practice over and over again. Mason has decent form but it is not a very reliable shot. He has not figured it out. Ryan is money from the line- Mason is not. Very frustrating because this is something that can be fixed with lots of hours. That said, he has worked on his hook and footwork. Overall, Mason has shown improvement and is becoming a rebounding machine.
    Yes, it can be fixed or greatly improved.
    Don't agree that Mason has decent form.
    In short, he has too many moving parts, which makes it hard to repeat a regular set of motions.
    Notice for example that he sometimes bends his torso backwards (or occasionally leans forward).
    Just my observations.

    Getting to 60% would be significant at this point...and important for team success.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    Yes, it can be fixed or greatly improved.
    Don't agree that Mason has decent form.
    In short, he has too many moving parts, which makes it hard to repeat a regular set of motions.
    Notice for example that he sometimes bends his torso backwards (or occasionally leans forward).
    Just my observations.

    Getting to 60% would be significant at this point...and important for team success.
    Agree with this. Getting to 60% could mean an additional 2-3 ppg for Mason (when you factor in missed 1-and-1 opportunities). That is very relevant to the team's chances in close games.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Agree with this. Getting to 60% could mean an additional 2-3 ppg for Mason (when you factor in missed 1-and-1 opportunities). That is very relevant to the team's chances in close games.
    When Mason goes to the line I pretty much expect him to hit 1 of 2.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    When Mason goes to the line I pretty much expect him to hit 1 of 2.
    Hey, I'm rooting for 1 of 2. If only he were that good. Unfortunately, so far this season he's only hitting 38% of his free throws. And he leads our team in free throw attempts, which only compounds the problem.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    San Francisco
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieTiger View Post
    So I paid a visit to Statsheet.com tonight and hours later came out with a few observations about the team to date. Posted these on another board, figured I'd share here as well. Take these for whatever you will:


    In thinking about Mason's improvement this year and his increased role on this team, I ventured over to Statsheet.com (only go there if you want to lose the next 4 hours of your life) and performed an interesting comparison- Jr year Tyler Zeller to Jr year Mase. Mason compares favorably (excepting his one achilles, that darned FT shooting- and even there, at this point he gets to the line more frequently than just about anyone. C'mon Mase, surely you can be >50% from the line!)



    http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/com...ller=2010-2011



    I also decided to run Austin Rivers' current performance against freshmen Kyrie Irving, Jason Williams, Harry Barnes (just for hype's sake, not similar players,) JJ Redick and Senior Daniel Ewing (because that was the first year Dan's usage % came close to the other guys, and because he was playing the role of a natural SG handling the ball quite a bit on a team without a pure PG in the starting lineup.) I'll let you all check it out, but Austin definitely holds his own amongst that elite company and some of his numbers are eerily similar to the other guys in various categories. Bare in mind that those guys had an entire season (ok, not Kyrie... sniffle) to grow so it's understandable that their numbers are better than Austin's. Also, those are some of the best freshmen to ever play the game (and a senior Daniel Ewing isn't bad either.) Austin is definitely holding his own.



    http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/com...5=daniel-ewing



    Other observations:



    -Mason's fouls per game has gone down each year he has been at Duke. He's doing a great job of staying on the floor so far this year.

    -Andre is playing more mpg this year, but his usage percentage and offensive efficiency is about the same (so far.) What has changed is that he is getting more time (thanks to improved defense and opportunity, I would imagine.)

    -Seth is in a new role, but he is also stepping up rather significantly. Through 5 games, his usage is up 5% while all of his shooting percentages are also up, he's getting to the line more often, while also improving his #s in rebounds, assists and steals. Really, the only downside is the turnovers, but he still holds an A/TO ratio of 1.5

    -Similarly, Ryan's usage is up but his efficiency is up almost across the board as well: he's shooting a better % from 2, 3 and the FT line; he's improved his rebounding efficiency (which takes PT/tempo into account.) His blocks are a little down (early) and his turnovers a little up, but overall the numbers support what I have seen with my eyes- RKelly is a player!

    -Meanwhile, Miles' offensive usage is up but he has yet to match his past efficiency on the offensive end. He's getting to the line at a fantastic rate, but has regressed in his FT shooting (so has Mason.) He's getting a higher percentage of his points from the FT line, but there are more available if he can just get back to his previous career high of a 66% FT percentage (his Soph. season.) Interestingly, he is playing almost an identical MPG as he has the past 2 years. Something tells me that there is more that PlumOne has to offer, and I think he will perform better as the year goes on.



    -Overall, it seems like the majority of the returning guys are ceasing the opportunity for bigger roles and putting forth better and more efficient all-around performances than they have to date in their careers. The one area where each of them has gotten worse is turnover rate, which tells me that these guys are still getting accustomed to the larger roles (read: usage %) that they are taking. I think this team will get better at valuing the ball, rebounding and applying ball pressure as the year goes on. And for the love of God, I just hope that Miles and Mason can figure out the free throw shooting thing! Otherwise, a lot of encouraging things on this team's statsheet profile to date!
    These are interesting stats. Thanks for sharing. I take a slightly different look at the Mason to Zeller comparison, though. The FT% is HUGE. The fact that Mason isn't making above 50% of his free throws means he can't even touch Zeller's offensive rating of 120 from last season. he has improved in every way and bests Zeller in rebounding percentage by a wide margin (Mason might be one of the top two or three rebounders this season. He's right there with Henson, which is impressive). Mason also has a better assist rate, which helps his O-rating. But until more of his possessions end with points at the line, his O-rating won't reach the level of Zellers.

    Speaking of O-rating, Curry's is off the charts good, so far. He's had some conspicuous turnovers (although, I think we might be overlooking how well he managed the game at the end last night because of that one silly backcourt violation down the stretch), but otherwise he's giving us 127+ points per 100 possessions so far. That's pretty incredible, frankly, and is at Scheyer-like levels (and Kyrie, too, although Kyrie only played 11 games). You could argue that it's a fluke for the five games, but he had an O-rating of 123 last year, which was pretty awesome. (To put this into perspective, UNC's heralded Marshall has an O-rating of just 96.4 or less than a point per possession so far, this season). That he's improved his efficiency while simultaneously increasing his usage is a great sign in the early season. Much like Scheyer, a lot of what he gives to the team isn't flashy, but we do well when he's got the ball in his hands. He'll be in for a big test tonight against Michigan's zone. If he can manage the offense well, it will be an even better sign that Curry is a solid point guard.

    Kelly, on the other hand, has an absolutely insane rating of 135. I doubt he stays this high all year, but our eyes are not lying to us. Kelly looks like he's been the best player on offense, and in fact, he has been. He can score in a variety of ways. I'd like to see us use Kelly's talents to help get inside the zone for easy mid range jumpers, tonight. Between our three point shooters and Kelly's outside-in ability, we have a lot of creative ways to beat the zone as long as we keep the ball moving and aren't afraid to get inside the zone.

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