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Thread: Alex Murphy

  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by oldnavy View Post
    Why would the staff make a "final" deceision to redshirt AM now when they do not have to? However, I do believe that the "working" decision has been to redshirt him and unless something changes it will continue to be the decison until the end of the season. Having said that, there is absolutely no reason for the staff to make a definitive statement now, especially since they are probably keeping the opitions open...
    Bolded tag quote is key point. AM and/or MP3 will be redshirted, automatically, if they do not play at all this season. That AM played but MP3 did not in preseason exhibition games is irrelevant, as both are frosh [in NCAA-rule parlance, "initial-year" players].

    Now, it may be that in the past coaches routinely "announced" that player X would be redshirted. It may be that some coaches did so, others didn't. It may be that the NCAA redshirt rules have changed. But given current rules, it does seem that the sensible approach for a coach to take is exactly what the Duke staff is doing: nothing. Indeed, even if they were to "announce" [oldnavy's reference to "final"] that X is redshirting, if they decided to play X late in the season, they could do so.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    Bolded tag quote is key point. AM and/or MP3 will be redshirted, automatically, if they do not play at all this season. That AM played but MP3 did not in preseason exhibition games is irrelevant, as both are frosh [in NCAA-rule parlance, "initial-year" players].

    Now, it may be that in the past coaches routinely "announced" that player X would be redshirted. It may be that some coaches did so, others didn't. It may be that the NCAA redshirt rules have changed. But given current rules, it does seem that the sensible approach for a coach to take is exactly what the Duke staff is doing: nothing. Indeed, even if they were to "announce" [oldnavy's reference to "final"] that X is redshirting, if they decided to play X late in the season, they could do so.
    It's only an issue for message boards and call-in radio shows.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devilsfan View Post
    I thought he graduated early from high school so that he could play basketball at Duke not have a front row seat on the bench and watch others play. Maybe I'm mistaken.
    I seem to recall that he came with the idea that a redshirt might be in the works, but that a year practicing and training at Duke would be far more useful to him than another year of high school and AAU ball.

    -jk

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devilsfan View Post
    I thought he graduated early from high school so that he could play basketball at Duke not have a front row seat on the bench and watch others play. Maybe I'm mistaken.
    I assume he came because he wants to play for Coach K. Which he will. He will actually get up to five years coaching from him if he redshirts, and still graduate/enter lottery/whatever with the class of folks with whom he was going to high school.

    Why try and sew discontent where there is no evidence of it?

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    I assume he came because he wants to play for Coach K. Which he will. He will actually get up to five years coaching from him if he redshirts, and still graduate/enter lottery/whatever with the class of folks with whom he was going to high school.
    I think this is absolutely right, and not an uncontroversial or confusing thing to understand at all.

    Everyone runs their own race.

  6. #206
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    Uh

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Corey View Post
    I think this is absolutely right, and not an uncontroversial or confusing thing to understand at all.

    Everyone runs their own race.
    I agree with you. By the way, this is the only instance in which I think it is appropriate to play a race card.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Corey View Post
    I think this is absolutely right, and not an uncontroversial or confusing thing to understand at all.

    Everyone runs their own race.
    So he thinks it's more likely he will be at Duke for 5 years than he would have gotten any benefit/minutes from not redshirting this year?

    Seems strange given how much he impressed early.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorilla View Post
    To my knowledge the duke staff never came out and stated that mp3 is going to redshirt. However a lot of duke fans feel that he is sitting out this year, so why can't it be the same for Murphy.
    They have indeed said he is redshirting.
    “I think the decision was made just prior to the start of the season,” said David Gaines, the Christ School basketball coach who had Miles (a 6-10 senior), Mason (6-10 junior) and Marshall on his teams at the private school in Arden.
    “I talked to (Duke assistant coach Chris Collins) and he said Coach K had talked to Marshall and his parents and everyone was on board with the idea,” said Gaines.
    “I think once they evaluated how the preseason had gone and Marshall realized there was a pretty formidable group of (front line) players ahead of him, everybody agreed this is what’s best for his future.”
    http://www.citizen-times.com/article...rshall-Plumlee

    I honestly don't care if Murphy plays this year or not, we are a loaded team so I'm not worried about missing something that Alex may bring to the floor. I do have 2 questions though, maybe someone has the answers.
    1. Has Duke ever redshirted 2 freshmen before?
    2. How will it be perceived by current recruits that we have two redshirts on the bench?
    Playing Devil's advocate...I could see a few raised eyebrows from guys wondering if they come are they simply signing up for a year of extra practice.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    2. How will it be perceived by current recruits that we have two redshirts on the bench?
    Playing Devil's advocate...I could see a few raised eyebrows from guys wondering if they come are they simply signing up for a year of extra practice.
    Question #2 is an interesting one. Especially considering that Plumlee and Murphy were both top 30-40 recruits (i.e., guys that frequently play decent minutes as freshman on most college teams). I'm sure nobody ever uses negative recruiting strategies against Duke (sarcasm), but that's certainly a question that the staff may face in the next couple of years.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Question #2 is an interesting one. Especially considering that Plumlee and Murphy were both top 30-40 recruits (i.e., guys that frequently play decent minutes as freshman on most college teams). I'm sure nobody ever uses negative recruiting strategies against Duke (sarcasm), but that's certainly a question that the staff may face in the next couple of years.
    In fairness, Alex came a year early with a possible plan of redshirting being discussed before he made the final decision to come early. When he decided to come early his ranking was adjusted due to the change in class and he landed at 49 in the RSCI. Marshall was ranked 61 in the final RSCI.

    I don't see this as an issue at all to be honest. MP3 has 4 guys in front of him in the rotation, and clearly can benefit from another year of body development. Unlike his brothers, MP3 only spent 4 years in High School so he is in his normal class. Miles and Mason both took a redshirt year in high school so to speak.

    Both are unique situations, and I just don't see this as a negative on the recruiting trail. Even if other coaches try to use this as a negative recruiting tool, it will likely have zero impact. The ego of recruits these days is quite large. They all fully believe they will be NBA stars so they would look at this with a "no way that would happen to me" kind of attitude.

    It is just a unique situation with both kids and certainly not a pattern that could be pointed to.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    They have indeed said he is redshirting.

    http://www.citizen-times.com/article...rshall-Plumlee
    Not that it even matters but that isn't actually an announcement by the team or coaching staff. That is Marshall's HS coach repeating what Coach Collins told him. For all we know the coaching staff has already had similar converstaions with AM's parents and coaches but who haven't repeated it to the press.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    I don't see this as an issue at all to be honest.

    Both are unique situations, and I just don't see this as a negative on the recruiting trail. Even if other coaches try to use this as a negative recruiting tool, it will likely have zero impact. The ego of recruits these days is quite large.

    It is just a unique situation with both kids and certainly not a pattern that could be pointed to.
    I don't disagree with the explanation of the situation. But all it takes is a coach or someone in the kid's ear saying "look at that - Duke has a McDonald's All-American that is redshirting." It doesn't matter that there's a logical reason for it. And I agree it's not a pattern. But perception doesn't always coincide with the logical explanation. And I could easily see that perception being a question Duke has to answer.

    That doesn't mean Duke won't be able to address it. Just that I think it's a real possibility that a recruit could be deterred by the redshirts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    They all fully believe they will be NBA stars so they would look at this with a "no way that would happen to me" kind of attitude.
    That's the best argument against it being a problem, and hopefully that's the case more often than not. I wouldn't use the word "all" though, as I'm quite sure there are plenty of kids who would be deterred by such a thing. Perhaps those are guys we wouldn't want anyway, though.

  13. #213
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    While looking up to see if I could find any official announcement from Duke about anyone redshirting (I couldn't) I did find this, and it makes great sense when you look ahead to next season.
    The two redshirts from Duke is not a common occurrence for the Blue Devils. Mike Krzyzewski can do it this year with a deep roster, but the bigger reason is due to a thin incoming class next season. Duke has only one commitment for the class of 2012 in Rasheed Sulaimon.
    From an article talking about Jeff Goodman's assumption that Murphy will redshirt as well.
    http://www.scacchoops.com/tt_NewsBre...al.asp?NB=6544
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  14. #214
    Coach K has explicitly stated in post-game conferences that there will never be a redshirt announcement during the season because that's a decision that cannot be made until the end of the season. A player is eligible to apply for a redshirt after not having participated in the whole season that just occurred; they can't apply during it. Obviously, the coaching staff/player could say "that's the plan," but I imagine they don't want to officially declare anything in case something comes up (e.g. injuries to the frontcourt that would necessitate Marshall to start playing or something like that). So, in the coaches' minds I would think "that's the plan," but Alex and MP3 aren't official redshirts until the season has concluded and the NCAA has granted it.

  15. #215
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    A few years ago Duke redshirted Jordan Davidson. Kid was a walk-on, who never played much. Practice player and emergency option.

    K would never publically admit that Davidson was redshirting. And he was a walk-on.

    So, the absence of a formal announcement isn't especially telling. Marshall will not play this season and Murphy is highly unlikely to play this season. A catastrophic series of injuries could change this but catastrophic series of injuries don't happen very often.

  16. #216
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    Ah Yes, West Point

    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    A few years ago Duke redshirted Jordan Davidson. Kid was a walk-on, who never played much. Practice player and emergency option.

    K would never publically admit that Davidson was redshirting. And he was a walk-on.

    So, the absence of a formal announcement isn't especially telling. Marshall will not play this season and Murphy is highly unlikely to play this season. A catastrophic series of injuries could change this but catastrophic series of injuries don't happen very often.
    Isn't this West Point training? You have your troops in battle and you have your reserves, available if needed. You don't have to tell your forces in battle to be ready, because they are fighting. But you tell your reserves to be ready, because they are gonna be fighting tomorrow, even if it is unlikely they will be.

    sage

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg_Newton View Post
    So he thinks it's more likely he will be at Duke for 5 years than he would have gotten any benefit/minutes from not redshirting this year?

    Seems strange given how much he impressed early.
    I do think this is an intriguing issue. Not controversial, not dismaying, just intriguing. My guess is that Murphy sure hopes he's good enough after his junior year [4th at Duke] to be a first-rounder. In that eventuality, well, Murphy and the Devils would have "wasted" his first year here. But not so much, as that concussion pushed him back maybe more than minimally, and so the hope that he might challenge for a rotation-spot fell by the wayside. This season, the thinking might go, he's not quite as good on D as Gbinije, nor is he likely, just yet, to bring efficient slash-to-the-basket on O. So, the "gamble" is, a 5th-year senior Murphy will be terrific, so it's worth thinking about that long-range scenario, as Duke isn't likely to win extra games were Murphy to play this season.

    Should (1) Duke fail this season to reach the Final 4, and (2) should Murphy absolutely explode next season, we could look back and imagine "what if Murphy had played...." Further, (3) should Murphy become a star in 2013-14 season, and, say, depart for the NBA after having actually played but 2 seasons, we'd also look back and [some might] say, "Well, K made a mistake on that one." But obviously we'll have to wait and see about this season, and Murphy's next/first 2.

    IMO, and others will disagree, the gamble is reasonable; Murphy is likely to play 3 seasons, just possibly a 4th, and we'll be very pleased with his smarts and skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    Has Duke ever redshirted 2 freshmen before?
    And lost in all this detail about AM and MP3 is the meta-issue of CB&B's question: is this a major change in K's policy? I'm pretty sure it has been authoritatively and convincingly stated by several informed posters that "K does not redshirt guys." Exceptions for injury, and unusual circumstances. So that leaves us to debate whether either or both of these 2 cases is unusual.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    And lost in all this detail about AM and MP3 is the meta-issue of CB&B's question: is this a major change in K's policy? I'm pretty sure it has been authoritatively and convincingly stated by several informed posters that "K does not redshirt guys." Exceptions for injury, and unusual circumstances. So that leaves us to debate whether either or both of these 2 cases is unusual.
    It's pretty rare for basketball programs to redshirt ANY top-100 recruits outside of medical reasons. Redshirting two in a single season is pretty unheard of for Duke or anyone else.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    .



    And lost in all this detail about AM and MP3 is the meta-issue of CB&B's question: is this a major change in K's policy? I'm pretty sure it has been authoritatively and convincingly stated by several informed posters that "K does not redshirt guys." Exceptions for injury, and unusual circumstances. So that leaves us to debate whether either or both of these 2 cases is unusual.
    This is very much a change in K's policy. Whether it's a one-year blip on the radar screen or something more permanent remains to be seen. But prior to this, the last non-injury redshirt of a recruited Duke player was Matt Christensen in 1999 and Matt was coming off a two-year Mormon mission.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    I assume he came because he wants to play for Coach K. Which he will. He will actually get up to five years coaching from him if he redshirts, and still graduate/enter lottery/whatever with the class of folks with whom he was going to high school.

    Why try and sew discontent where there is no evidence of it?
    Or perhaps Coach K just wants another shot at getting Singler's jersey retired. An extra year of coaching has got to put him over the edge. Just with a different last name.

    - Chillin

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