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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Charlotte, North Carolina

    Defamation Question for DBR's lawyers

    Fortunately not directly involving me! Briefly, here's the situation: Person A is starting a small business and asked Person B, who went to art school but does not work as an artist per se, to help design a logo for the business, not as a business contract but as a favor. Person B drew out an idea. Person A didn't want to use the whole logo but had another friend alter a part of the drawing, incorporate it into a different background, and then used that piece of work for the logo. Person B became upset that her drawing was altered and used in a different logo and has since launched into several comments on Facebook about Person A. These comments include describing Person A as having stolen the work, as having behaved in a threatening behavior, and as having made repeated threatening texts. There have been more statements on Facebook by Person B describing Person A has having no class, etc. Unrelated parties (who don't know Person A) have responded to Person B's comments with much nastier remarks about Person A, which Person B has "liked".

    I know for a fact that Person A has not engaged in any threatening behavior or threatening texts. I'm pretty sure, from my own unprofessional understanding of defamation of character, that what Person B has said herself on Facebook meets the definition. My question is whether Person B "liking" degrading and vicious comments made, in response to her posts, by others, contributes to defamation of character since, in my view, it actively endorses a very negative impression of Person A.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by davekay1971 View Post
    Fortunately not directly involving me! Briefly, here's the situation: Person A is starting a small business and asked Person B, who went to art school but does not work as an artist per se, to help design a logo for the business, not as a business contract but as a favor. Person B drew out an idea. Person A didn't want to use the whole logo but had another friend alter a part of the drawing, incorporate it into a different background, and then used that piece of work for the logo. Person B became upset that her drawing was altered and used in a different logo and has since launched into several comments on Facebook about Person A. These comments include describing Person A as having stolen the work, as having behaved in a threatening behavior, and as having made repeated threatening texts. There have been more statements on Facebook by Person B describing Person A has having no class, etc. Unrelated parties (who don't know Person A) have responded to Person B's comments with much nastier remarks about Person A, which Person B has "liked".

    I know for a fact that Person A has not engaged in any threatening behavior or threatening texts. I'm pretty sure, from my own unprofessional understanding of defamation of character, that what Person B has said herself on Facebook meets the definition. My question is whether Person B "liking" degrading and vicious comments made, in response to her posts, by others, contributes to defamation of character since, in my view, it actively endorses a very negative impression of Person A.
    I'm no lawyer, and mods feel free to delete if this is too off-topic:

    As someone who does a little art and graphic design...Person A committed a huge error in having someone alter Person B's work without asking for permission.

    That said, this is a really interesting case. The merits of the defamation case probably depend upon modern judicial interpretations regarding electronic communication/the internet. Since it is a written statement I assume it becomes a case of Libel (published on the internet via Facebook)...and the defendent must prove the statements are untrue, and that harm has occured due to the statements (the hardest part, I think). As far as the "Likes" for statements by other people go -- I believe that would be expressing an opinion and not relevant -- only statements made by Person B could be considered? But I am no lawyer -- this is just conjecture.

    I'm interested in what the real experts have to say!

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by davekay1971 View Post
    Fortunately not directly involving me! Briefly, here's the situation: Person A is starting a small business and asked Person B, who went to art school but does not work as an artist per se, to help design a logo for the business, not as a business contract but as a favor. Person B drew out an idea. Person A didn't want to use the whole logo but had another friend alter a part of the drawing, incorporate it into a different background, and then used that piece of work for the logo. Person B became upset that her drawing was altered and used in a different logo and has since launched into several comments on Facebook about Person A. These comments include describing Person A as having stolen the work, as having behaved in a threatening behavior, and as having made repeated threatening texts. There have been more statements on Facebook by Person B describing Person A has having no class, etc. Unrelated parties (who don't know Person A) have responded to Person B's comments with much nastier remarks about Person A, which Person B has "liked".

    I know for a fact that Person A has not engaged in any threatening behavior or threatening texts. I'm pretty sure, from my own unprofessional understanding of defamation of character, that what Person B has said herself on Facebook meets the definition. My question is whether Person B "liking" degrading and vicious comments made, in response to her posts, by others, contributes to defamation of character since, in my view, it actively endorses a very negative impression of Person A.
    You can sue about anything - filing fees are not that high. Having said that, I would demand a ridiculously high retainer to take this case + a very high hourly rate paid immediately upon rendering a statement. The case would be extremely difficult to win and damages are a real question. Then you would have to collect...

    Probably better to chalk it up to experience and when you seek payment to protect your creative rights, enter into an agreement.
    Last edited by Indoor66; 11-19-2011 at 05:29 PM. Reason: Add 2nd Sentence

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Charlotte, North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    You can sue about anything - filing fees are not that high. Having said that, I would demand a ridiculously high retainer to take this case + a very high hourly rate paid immediately upon rendering a statement. The case would be extremely difficult to win and damages are a real question. Then you would have to collect...

    Probably better to chalk it up to experience and when you seek payment to protect your creative rights, enter into an agreement.
    No question here about damages as far as I know. First of all, neither party has any assets worth going after. Secondly, the party feeling defamed would like an apology for the comments and for the whole matter to go away. As for the artist, the initial offer was made by the artist to make the design as a favor, and there was no discussion at any point about compensation...I think it was just a matter of the work being altered without permission hurting the feelings of the artist. Agreed with the earlier post that altering it without permission was a mistake. My curiosity was more related to the question of defamation on Facebook and whether the artist "liking" truly insulting and derogatory comments from her friends was an affirmative enough action to further a legal claim of defamation.

    Doubt this will ever even get to a lawyer, frankly

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by davekay1971 View Post
    No question here about damages as far as I know. First of all, neither party has any assets worth going after. Secondly, the party feeling defamed would like an apology for the comments and for the whole matter to go away. As for the artist, the initial offer was made by the artist to make the design as a favor, and there was no discussion at any point about compensation...I think it was just a matter of the work being altered without permission hurting the feelings of the artist. Agreed with the earlier post that altering it without permission was a mistake. My curiosity was more related to the question of defamation on Facebook and whether the artist "liking" truly insulting and derogatory comments from her friends was an affirmative enough action to further a legal claim of defamation.

    Doubt this will ever even get to a lawyer, frankly
    Sometimes events in life require a slight level of thickness in our skin. In this instance your friend will probably do better in life by moving on and letting it go.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis
    I'd recommend against letting it get to lawyer stage. The possibly stronger case in the whole thing, depending on how much was used, is that the original artist has a copyright claim. Copyrights stay with the author absent written transfer of rights. Copyrights include rights to derivative works, which the later design arguably is (again depends on how much was used).

    In the future, I'd recommend www.logotournament.com.

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