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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Durham, NC

    MBB: Duke vs Michigan State Pre-Game & In-Game Thread

    This will be the first game where playing a 3 guard lineup could really hurt us. Draymond Green had like 15 boards last game from the 3 spot. Hopefully Gbinije gets some run trying to guard him.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by loldevilz View Post
    This will be the first game where playing a 3 guard lineup could really hurt us. Draymond Green had like 15 boards last game from the 3 spot. Hopefully Gbinije gets some run trying to guard him.
    I'm not so confident that Mike G can handle a senior who had 18 rebounds against UNC (and outweighs Mike by 25 pounds), any more than anybody else on our team can. I'm not sure Green really played the "3 spot," either. The other starting forward for Michigan State against UNC was Branden Dawson (freshman, 6'6" 215) who is shorter and lighter than Green (6'7" 230). Both forwards, however, are taller and heavier than Andre or Austin, so I see where you're coming from, but I don't see that freshman Gbinije is the answer, unfortunately.

    On the other hand, whoever is playing the "4" for Michigan State is going to have their hands full with Mason or Ryan. Seems like we might just be trading mismatches there. From a rebounding perspective, Michigan State outrebounded UNC 42 to 31, while still losing the game by 12 points.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I'm not so confident that Mike G can handle a senior who had 18 rebounds against UNC (and outweighs Mike by 25 pounds), any more than anybody else on our team can. I'm not sure Green really played the "3 spot," either. The other starting forward for Michigan State against UNC was Branden Dawson (freshman, 6'6" 215) who is shorter and lighter than Green (6'7" 230). Both forwards, however, are taller and heavier than Andre or Austin, so I see where you're coming from, but I don't see that freshman Gbinije is the answer, unfortunately.

    On the other hand, whoever is playing the "4" for Michigan State is going to have their hands full with Mason or Ryan. Seems like we might just be trading mismatches there. From a rebounding perspective, Michigan State outrebounded UNC 42 to 31, while still losing the game by 12 points.
    I am starting to believe that Mason is a better rebounder than anyone wearing light blue. Miles is working hard to grab more boards as is Kelly. It will be interesting to see who wins the rebound battle in this game. Green will be a problem and I am interested to see who K assigns to him. I suspect Mason to start with, and then Kelly. I can't see us trying to defend him with Austin or Andre which means it will get interesting when Tyler subs in for Andre. But like you say, that works both ways. Can you see green trying to guard Andre? Izzo has issues there as well.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    Can you see green trying to guard Andre? Izzo has issues there as well.
    Depends on which Andre shows up. If it's the Andre we've seen for most of his career, well it's not too hard for Green to just stand out by the 3 pt. line. If Andre shows good movement w/o the ball and any driving ability . . . then Coach K has a big new weapon to work with.

  5. #5
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    Feb 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by duke09hms View Post
    Depends on which Andre shows up. If it's the Andre we've seen for most of his career, well it's not too hard for Green to just stand out by the 3 pt. line. If Andre shows good movement w/o the ball and any driving ability . . . then Coach K has a big new weapon to work with.
    Yikes! I got my A's mixed up there. I meant to type Austin and somehow typed Andre instead. I agree with your point. Andre will have to take advantage and move to exploit the matchup. If he floats around the line, Green will not have any issues.

    Austin, however, just needs to be himself. Green should tie his shoes and shorts up real tight if he finds himself attempting to guard Austin.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by duke09hms View Post
    Depends on which Andre shows up. If it's the Andre we've seen for most of his career, well it's not too hard for Green to just stand out by the 3 pt. line. If Andre shows good movement w/o the ball and any driving ability . . . then Coach K has a big new weapon to work with.
    But another way to look at that is whoever's guarding Andre absolutely must stand out by the 3 pt line. Even if Andre just camps out behind the line, as long as he's actually shooting he helps open up our offense.

    I'd love to see Andre develop a more 3 dimensional game, but I really do think he can help just by doing more of what he does best. No coach in their right mind would sag off of him.

    [Edited due to the fact that Green might not be the guy guarding Andre. Thx everybody!]
    Last edited by Mcluhan; 11-14-2011 at 10:09 PM.

  7. #7
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    Mar 2007
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    Chicago, IL
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcluhan View Post
    But another way to look at that is whoever's guarding Andre absolutely must stand out by the 3 pt line. Even if Andre just camps out behind the line, as long as he's actually shooting he helps open up our offense.

    I'd love to see Andre develop a more 3 dimensional game, but I really do think he can help just by doing more of what he does best. No coach in their right mind would sag off of him.

    [Edited due to the fact that Green might not be the guy guarding Andre. Thx everybody!]
    I'd be absolutely stunned if Green is on Andre for more than a few plays.

    Green and Nix/Payne will guard Miles and Mason to start. Appling gets Rivers. Dawson will check Dawkins, and Wood will guard Curry.

    Green played some 3 last year, but it didn't go well, especially defensively. He'll be guarding 4s and 5s this year to maximize his rebounding.

    dukemsu

  8. #8
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    Jan 2009
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    Clifton, VA
    I am not nearly as knowledgeable as many (especially DukeMSU) on the MSU roster, but based on my more limited knowledge it seems that they are as weak at guard as they have been in many, many years. In contrast, we seem to have a lot talent at the guard position (albeit somewhat inexperienced). Plus, our Bigs are underrated. No disrespect to Izzo and the MSU program who I think a ton of but I like Duke in this match up by about 15. Just does not seem that MSU has the horses this year and that this match up favors our Blue Devils.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukemsu View Post
    I'd be absolutely stunned if Green is on Andre for more than a few plays.

    Green and Nix/Payne will guard Miles and Mason to start. Appling gets Rivers. Dawson will check Dawkins, and Wood will guard Curry.

    Green played some 3 last year, but it didn't go well, especially defensively. He'll be guarding 4s and 5s this year to maximize his rebounding.

    dukemsu
    I agree with the rest of your post except for the bolded part. I'm pretty sure I remember Summers playing the 3, with Thornton backing him up. I checked the stats, and the following players played perimeter roles for MSU last year (excluding the absolute end-of-bench guys):

    Lucas: 33.4 mpg
    Appling: 22.9 mpg
    Summers: 29.3 mpg
    Lucious: 12.9 mpg (24.4 mpg over 18 games)
    Thornton: 11.1 mpg
    Kebler: 9.8 mpg

    That's 119.4 mpg, or roughly all of the minutes for PG, SG, and SF.

    In other words, Green didn't play SF last year. He did spend more time on the perimeter, but it was in the "stretch 4" role with guys like Roe, Sherman, Nix, and Payne playing the 5 (and the rest of the minutes at 4).

    Sorry for beating a dead horse here, as I think it's clear that Green isn't going to guard (or be guarded by) Dawkins except on the occasional screen switches. I just wanted to clarify how unlikely it'd be for Green to play at the 3.

  10. #10
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    Apr 2010
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    Columbus, OH
    As much as I would have liked for Michigan State to beat UNC in 2009, Tom Izzo doesn't have 2 national titles. Nice graphic ESPN.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Winterville, NC
    I like Andre coming out aggressive even if he makes a few mistakes.

  12. #12
    no rebounding. giving up tons of 2nd chance points. MSU is just geting all the loose balls, knocking it away after rebs. we'd be ahead by 8 if we don't give up those Oboards.
    Last edited by DukieInBrasil; 11-15-2011 at 07:44 PM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Winterville, NC
    I know we have a good record at MSG but I hate playing there. The rims are stiff and awkward.

  14. #14

    Plumlee Hands

    FOR GOD'S SAKE! Hang on to the ball! Plumlee hands.

  15. #15
    DRE!!!! 3-4 3s!!! Comin' aliiiiiiiiivvveeee!!!!!!!!!!!

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Dayton, OH

    Kelly

    I understand that Kelly is one of our smartest players, but he makes our defensive rotations way too slow. He is a liability on D in a game like this.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Durham, NC
    For all those people that love talking about how great Wojo is- I hope you are watching this game.

  18. #18
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    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by loldevilz View Post
    For all those people that love talking about how great Wojo is- I hope you are watching this game.
    Oh for Pete's sake...

  19. #19
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    Sep 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by loldevilz View Post
    For all those people that love talking about how great Wojo is- I hope you are watching this game.
    Agreed. To be fair, the bigs do seem to be contributing more this year on offense. However, I can't tell if that's due to improvement or just increased touches leading to increased comfort.

    Plumlees have left a lot of points on the court and a couple dumb turnovers, but then again so has MSU, so it's hard to really describe the game. Definitely a tight one.

    I'd rather have Dawkins be 3-4 from two-point range instead of three-point.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Such an incredibly boring 1st half. Tons of fouls and stoppages in the game. The crowd is completely silent. The announcers have been terrible.

    -Everything about that 1st half made me want to turn the channel.

    I won't even get into the frustration I had while watching Miles and Rivers. Thank god Dawkins shot lights out.

    Hopefully our guys can get into some sort of rhythm during the 2nd half...

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