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  1. #1
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    MBB: Duke vs Michigan State Pre-Game & In-Game Thread

    This will be the first game where playing a 3 guard lineup could really hurt us. Draymond Green had like 15 boards last game from the 3 spot. Hopefully Gbinije gets some run trying to guard him.

  2. #2
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    MBB: Duke vs Mich St Pre-Game & In-Game Thread

    The other thread is more about which Duke Alums/Fans are attending and where to meet up. Did not want that thread to get messed up with pre-game analysis so use this thread for the analysis please.

    Should be a great test for our guys. Looking forward to see how they perform on a neutral court in a big time setting!
    I strongly feel that thats not a basketball issue. Im in charge of the basketball program as much the chancellor and the athletic director allow me to be. And its not a basketball issue.
    Williams said, he is aware of the classes that his players take. I think it varies on a coach, he said. I mean, Im pretty aware of what our guys are doing. And its not a basketball issue, guys. It is not a basketball issue. Its a university issue.
    Roy Williams 2012

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    The other thread is more about which Duke Alums/Fans are attending and where to meet up. Did not want that thread to get messed up with pre-game analysis so use this thread for the analysis please.

    Should be a great test for our guys. Looking forward to see how they perform on a neutral court in a big time setting!
    Neutral court? Don't you mean "Cameron North?"

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by devildeac View Post
    Neutral court? Don't you mean "Cameron North?"
    So say the haters for sure! I suspect there will be a few folks there wearing Pantone 287 and cheering loudly for good guys! Hopefully we will pack the place and give our guys the vibe!
    I strongly feel that thats not a basketball issue. Im in charge of the basketball program as much the chancellor and the athletic director allow me to be. And its not a basketball issue.
    Williams said, he is aware of the classes that his players take. I think it varies on a coach, he said. I mean, Im pretty aware of what our guys are doing. And its not a basketball issue, guys. It is not a basketball issue. Its a university issue.
    Roy Williams 2012

  5. #5
    There's a nice little tradition brewing between Duke and MSU.

    Against MSU, i'll be looking for the Plumlees/Kelly response to playing bigger, better more physical post players. Also, will obviously be looking at the ability of our guards to defend as well as how well they generate offense. We don't really have much going on in the way of wings. Other than D. Green, i don't know much about this iteration of the Sparties, but an Izzo-led team is bound to play tough D and be patient on O, so this game will be mostly about concentration and focus for us.

    Interesting side-note will be to see how Duke handles MSU relative to UNC. Nice little corollary, UNC was down early to UNC-A but pulled away to win by only 16. They did travel cross-country and arrived in Asheville at an odd hour, however Duke played less than 24 hours after a tight game with Belmont and won by 41. Both teams had substantial height advantages on their 2nd opponents. Marshall racked up a sick 16 assists, albeit he was passing to HenZeller down low over shorter guys.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by loldevilz View Post
    This will be the first game where playing a 3 guard lineup could really hurt us. Draymond Green had like 15 boards last game from the 3 spot. Hopefully Gbinije gets some run trying to guard him.
    I'm not so confident that Mike G can handle a senior who had 18 rebounds against UNC (and outweighs Mike by 25 pounds), any more than anybody else on our team can. I'm not sure Green really played the "3 spot," either. The other starting forward for Michigan State against UNC was Branden Dawson (freshman, 6'6" 215) who is shorter and lighter than Green (6'7" 230). Both forwards, however, are taller and heavier than Andre or Austin, so I see where you're coming from, but I don't see that freshman Gbinije is the answer, unfortunately.

    On the other hand, whoever is playing the "4" for Michigan State is going to have their hands full with Mason or Ryan. Seems like we might just be trading mismatches there. From a rebounding perspective, Michigan State outrebounded UNC 42 to 31, while still losing the game by 12 points.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DukieInBrasil View Post
    Against MSU, i'll be looking for the Plumlees/Kelly response to playing bigger, better more physical post players.
    Except based on the heights and weights, Michigan State's frontcourt players are not bigger than Miles, Mason, or Ryan. Their starting center is 6'10" 240 (vs. Miles 6/10" 245). Not sure which is their PF, but their starting forwards are 6'7" 230 and 6'6" 215, both smaller than Mason (6'10" 235) or Ryan (6'11" 230). Granted, Michigan State's backup center is 6'9" 270, so he sounds bigger, although not taller. I haven't seen enough of Michigan State to say whether their guys are better than ours (as you say) but as well as our guys are playing I have my doubts (except for Green, who may be better). Knowing they play on Michigan State, I agree with you they're probably more physical.

  8. #8
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    First real test for the bigs coming up! Let's see if we can put that "soft Duke" label to sleep. I'm looking for some toughness and aggressiveness from Miles and Mason to set the tone. Do not back down guys - channel the ZOUBS!!!

    It would be a great statement game for us if we can match MSU's intensity on the boards and defend the basket. Let's GO DUKE!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I'm not so confident that Mike G can handle a senior who had 18 rebounds against UNC (and outweighs Mike by 25 pounds), any more than anybody else on our team can. I'm not sure Green really played the "3 spot," either. The other starting forward for Michigan State against UNC was Branden Dawson (freshman, 6'6" 215) who is shorter and lighter than Green (6'7" 230). Both forwards, however, are taller and heavier than Andre or Austin, so I see where you're coming from, but I don't see that freshman Gbinije is the answer, unfortunately.

    On the other hand, whoever is playing the "4" for Michigan State is going to have their hands full with Mason or Ryan. Seems like we might just be trading mismatches there. From a rebounding perspective, Michigan State outrebounded UNC 42 to 31, while still losing the game by 12 points.
    I am starting to believe that Mason is a better rebounder than anyone wearing light blue. Miles is working hard to grab more boards as is Kelly. It will be interesting to see who wins the rebound battle in this game. Green will be a problem and I am interested to see who K assigns to him. I suspect Mason to start with, and then Kelly. I can't see us trying to defend him with Austin or Andre which means it will get interesting when Tyler subs in for Andre. But like you say, that works both ways. Can you see green trying to guard Andre? Izzo has issues there as well.
    I strongly feel that thats not a basketball issue. Im in charge of the basketball program as much the chancellor and the athletic director allow me to be. And its not a basketball issue.
    Williams said, he is aware of the classes that his players take. I think it varies on a coach, he said. I mean, Im pretty aware of what our guys are doing. And its not a basketball issue, guys. It is not a basketball issue. Its a university issue.
    Roy Williams 2012

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Except based on the heights and weights, Michigan State's frontcourt players are not bigger than Miles, Mason, or Ryan. Their starting center is 6'10" 240 (vs. Miles 6/10" 245). Not sure which is their PF, but their starting forwards are 6'7" 230 and 6'6" 215, both smaller than Mason (6'10" 235) or Ryan (6'11" 230). Granted, Michigan State's backup center is 6'9" 270, so he sounds bigger, although not taller. I haven't seen enough of Michigan State to say whether their guys are better than ours (as you say) but as well as our guys are playing I have my doubts (except for Green, who may be better). Knowing they play on Michigan State, I agree with you they're probably more physical.
    I think his comparators "better and more physical" were in relation to guys that the plumlees/kelly have played against thus far this season, not in relation to the plumlees/kelly themselves, in which case, the OP is correct that they are the best and most physical guys that we'll have seen so far this year.
    9f

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    Can you see green trying to guard Andre? Izzo has issues there as well.
    Depends on which Andre shows up. If it's the Andre we've seen for most of his career, well it's not too hard for Green to just stand out by the 3 pt. line. If Andre shows good movement w/o the ball and any driving ability . . . then Coach K has a big new weapon to work with.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    I think his comparators "better and more physical" were in relation to guys that the plumlees/kelly have played against thus far this season, not in relation to the plumlees/kelly themselves, in which case, the OP is correct that they are the best and most physical guys that we'll have seen so far this year.
    Ah, that makes more sense. My bad. Or in the immortal words of Emily Litella, "Nevermind."

  13. #13
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    MSU played the Heels really well except for one key 5 minute stretch. That stretch was when their freshman Branden Dawson, a 6'6" kid who was going straight at Barnes and not faring poorly (and talking all kinds of trash) slipped on that ridiculous logo at midcourt and left the game. The Heels also got MSU in foul trouble and went on a run. State had a terrible time shooting, which was in part due to the setting, but this is not a good shooting team to begin with.

    MSU will give Duke matchup problems on the baseline as they are back to the maniacal Izzo rebounding of their vintage teams. However, the Duke backcourt will likely torch Appling and Wood from beyond the arc, though Appling is a solid on-ball defender and will give Austin some trouble with his physicality.

    Unless Duke has a really poor night shooting the ball, I think it's a mirror result-MSU keeps it close for awhile, wins the rebounding war, but is limited by its offensive troubles and the result is a 10-12 Duke victory for K's 903rd.

    dukemsu

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by duke09hms View Post
    Depends on which Andre shows up. If it's the Andre we've seen for most of his career, well it's not too hard for Green to just stand out by the 3 pt. line. If Andre shows good movement w/o the ball and any driving ability . . . then Coach K has a big new weapon to work with.
    Yikes! I got my A's mixed up there. I meant to type Austin and somehow typed Andre instead. I agree with your point. Andre will have to take advantage and move to exploit the matchup. If he floats around the line, Green will not have any issues.

    Austin, however, just needs to be himself. Green should tie his shoes and shorts up real tight if he finds himself attempting to guard Austin.
    I strongly feel that thats not a basketball issue. Im in charge of the basketball program as much the chancellor and the athletic director allow me to be. And its not a basketball issue.
    Williams said, he is aware of the classes that his players take. I think it varies on a coach, he said. I mean, Im pretty aware of what our guys are doing. And its not a basketball issue, guys. It is not a basketball issue. Its a university issue.
    Roy Williams 2012

  15. #15
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    Izzo is an outstanding coach and he has a good team this year. Should be a fun game, and a good measuring stick of where we are.

    Go Duke!
    "What, me worry?" -- Roy Williams

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukemsu View Post
    That stretch was when their freshman Branden Dawson, a 6'6" kid who was going straight at Barnes and not fairing poorly (and talking all kinds of trash) slipped on that ridiculous logo at midcourt and left the game.
    Back to the original question, is Dawson too big for Andre to handle? Or Austin? If not, it seems to make sense to put Mason on Green and then I'm not terribly worried about getting killed too badly on the boards. If Dawson's too big for Austin, it will be more difficult to play the Tyler/Seth/Austin or Quinn/Seth/Austin lineups we played at times in the first two games.

    On the other hand, I saw that Appling is listed at 6'1". If he's guarding Austin and Austin can get just a little space, he should be able to shoot over him, right?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Back to the original question, is Dawson too big for Andre to handle? Or Austin? If not, it seems to make sense to put Mason on Green and then I'm not terribly worried about getting killed too badly on the boards. If Dawson's too big for Austin, it will be more difficult to play the Tyler/Seth/Austin or Quinn/Seth/Austin lineups we played at times in the first two games.

    On the other hand, I saw that Appling is listed at 6'1". If he's guarding Austin and Austin can get just a little space, he should be able to shoot over him, right?
    Dawson is too big for Dawkins unless he's in foul trouble and loses his aggressiveness. He's a full 6'6" and built like a free safety. Dawkins has speed on him, though.

    Green will likely be matched up by Mason or Miles for most of the game. Izzo may try to drag Green outside some on offense, but he spends most of his time facilitating the offense from the high post. The best things he does offensively are passing the ball and crashing boards. One of the better rebounders anywhere.

    Appling has a height issue against Rivers, but is a great ball-denial defender. Unless Austin is bringing it up the floor, Appling may be able to keep him from catching the ball where he wants it. In a one-on-one battle, though, yes, Austin can shoot over him. Appling may be able to keep him out of the lane some.

    dukemsu

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Except based on the heights and weights, Michigan State's frontcourt players are not bigger than Miles, Mason, or Ryan. Their starting center is 6'10" 240 (vs. Miles 6/10" 245). Not sure which is their PF, but their starting forwards are 6'7" 230 and 6'6" 215, both smaller than Mason (6'10" 235) or Ryan (6'11" 230). Granted, Michigan State's backup center is 6'9" 270, so he sounds bigger, although not taller. I haven't seen enough of Michigan State to say whether their guys are better than ours (as you say) but as well as our guys are playing I have my doubts (except for Green, who may be better). Knowing they play on Michigan State, I agree with you they're probably more physical.
    I was referring to bigger and better than the guys they've dominated so far. I didn't do a good job of making that clear.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukemsu View Post
    MSU played the Heels really well except for one key 5 minute stretch. That stretch was when their freshman Branden Dawson, a 6'6" kid who was going straight at Barnes and not faring poorly (and talking all kinds of trash) slipped on that ridiculous logo at midcourt and left the game. The Heels also got MSU in foul trouble and went on a run. State had a terrible time shooting, which was in part due to the setting, but this is not a good shooting team to begin with.

    MSU will give Duke matchup problems on the baseline as they are back to the maniacal Izzo rebounding of their vintage teams. However, the Duke backcourt will likely torch Appling and Wood from beyond the arc, though Appling is a solid on-ball defender and will give Austin some trouble with his physicality.

    Unless Duke has a really poor night shooting the ball, I think it's a mirror result-MSU keeps it close for awhile, wins the rebounding war, but is limited by its offensive troubles and the result is a 10-12 Duke victory for K's 903rd.

    dukemsu
    Kedsy: ...Michigan State outrebounded UNC 42 to 31, while still losing the game (to NC@CH) by 12 points.


    I dunno DukeMSU .... we better win by at least 12, or we'll be hearing about all day Wed. around all the water coolers in the state of North Carolina....
    -BDBD

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by dukemsu View Post
    Dawson is too big for Dawkins unless he's in foul trouble and loses his aggressiveness. He's a full 6'6" and built like a free safety. Dawkins has speed on him, though.
    Are you saying that Dawson has a size advantage or that you don't think Dawkins (or rivers) can cover him at all? Because I'm not sure we have a better alternative; I don't expect Silent G or Murph to understand the defense as well as Andre yet.

    Speaking of Alex, I've heard he was held out of the last couple of games due to an injury. Anyone know if he'll be able to play in this one?

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