Sports, scandals, scars and why I am doubting if I can be a fan anymore

[KenTankerous]

My work and family life is very tumultuous. I deal in dangerous situations that are at best anxiety ridden due to the constant possibility of violence, destruction and lawsuits. I found harbor in college sports. There, on the court, pitch, field or yard, turmoil, conflict, rivalry and dispute were settled for no other reason than to build strong bodies, strong resolve and school pride. In no more than 60 minutes, the good guys either won or lost and you moved on. Next play.

And when people would criticize it as corrupt or misplaced emotions, I could point to Penn State or Duke and say, "No. Not there. These are good guys." Well, not anymore.

Between Ky hiring greasy Calipaymi, the NCAA wanting to pay athletes and now the abomination and institutional abuse from Penn State, I feel like a kid who just found out there is no Santa Claus. And I'm having a hard time processing this. Is anyone else lost with me? Do you fear something like this could ever happen at Duke? IS it happening at Duke and they are just too smart to get caught?

I started a new thread because we have a place to debate the nuts and bolts of who knew what when and due process and the court of public opinion presided over by the lynch-media (kudos to the coiner of that one!) . I want to talk about how these things have changed your perception of sports, the institutions that allegedly govern them and how much enjoyment has been sucked from the diversion that is, or used to be, amateur athletics.

[Mike Corey]

I want to talk about how these things have changed your perception of sports, the institutions that allegedly govern them and how much enjoyment has been sucked from the diversion that is, or used to be, amateur athletics.

I completely understand where you're coming from.

I would suggest, however, that not much has changed in college athletics between this week and last, in the sense that the naughtiness you rightly lament--the continued rise of snake oil salesmen like John Calipari; the misfeasance or nonfeasance at Penn State (only the alleged cover up being a University matter, not the sexual predation); and today's NYTimes story on the parallel judicial system for college athletes--has been present for decades. Is it worse now, or are we just more aware of it now?

My thought would be that though there is a higher quantity of money flowing through college sports now than ever before, the collusion and troubled waters have been distilled a bit over the years. We're just more aware of the troubles that arise because of increases in transparency. That makes it all the more bothersome though, doesn't it? These guys are going to get caught...and yet they still try to keep wrongdoing under wraps.

People speak of corruption in college sports much the same way they talk about corruption in politics. I think that in both instances, things are generally better than they once were, they're just not as good as any of us as fans (or voters) would like them to be.

None of the above solves your quandary. For that, I apologize.

[Jim3k]

I dunno, Ken. There are levels of misconduct, some of which are arcane and nonsensical, such as the inadvertent recruiting stuff that most schools experience. These are usually self-reported. Duke had one of those with assistant Chris Collins a couple of years ago. Feather on the wrist penalty stuff.

Then there are those involving honest, but serious mistakes, such as Lute Olson's connection to an AAU on-campus tournament. Olson was in the early stages of Alzheimer's, relied on some misinformation, permitted use of his autopen and the the UofA chose to clean house. Still, not really serious as far as venality is concerned. In fact, until then, I don't believe the UofA ever had any unethical issues.

I'm sure that there are many universities out there, both state and private, which run perfectly honorable programs--even those with minor blemishes. Stanford is certainly one without any blemish.

Then there are those which were extremely dirty, were caught and cleaned up. Michigan, Cal and San Francisco come to mind. Sure, it took years for them to reacquire their reputations, but they did it. That doesn't mean the teams have returned to their high status on the field/court afterwards.

Then, there are the line-walkers, Calimari being the most visible. I think the academic progress rules should have a positive effect there.

And, of course, there are the outliers--PSU is the current example. There is no evidence that the Penn State teams themselves were operating crookedly. By that I mean that PSU has not run afoul of the NCAA. Here the university seems to have put its reputation ahead of all other interests and covered up a crime committed by a retiree who had access to the athletics buildings. (I suppose it's possible that that same attitude permitted cover-up/decline to report NCAA violations, but that has not come up.) Oddly, here the teams are reputable, but the university has lost its reputation. PSU's outlier status seems plain.

So I think your concerns are a bit overblown. Sure...any of these schools might be sitting on a bombshell which may never explode; most likely though, there is no bombshell. All of them are at some risk because you always have outsiders whose activities are hard to monitor. A good athletics department makes an effort to keep things clean. It's not easy and when a gambler gets hold of a Tulane or Michigan player, how does one judge the institution? Staff members are less problematical for judging the school. North Carolina's football staff includes an associate head coach wired to a pro agency? That's a school problem. Grade fraud?--the university's reputation takes that one.

For the most part, though, you can be pretty confident that programs are honestly run. Yeah--I've heard coaches say things like, "If you're not cheating, you're not competing," but I think that's just irony speaking. At least I hope so.

[rogermortimer]

While this Penn State scandal is the worst in my lifetime (although some may argue the Dave Bliss incident at Baylor), the worm turned long ago. Division 1 football (in particular) and Division 1 basketball really are not compatible with the mission of most any educational institution. Football really corrupts, even at schools (like Duke) which follow the rules. It costs a fortune, requires the lowering of academic standards not just for a handful of athletes but for tens of them, and disorders the academic priorities of the school. Think Florida State would have a Family Life or Recreation major without football? Likely not.

Football at a place like Penn State is entertainment for the masses. And it permits alums and followers to relive their youth vicariously - the reason why it attracts so much money. But University of Chicago had it right in the 40's when they gave up big time sports.

Accordingly, as disturbing as the event at PSU is, I long ago gave up any illusions over NCAA revenue sports. The notion that the programs exist for young people is hogwash (although it comes closer at Duke and other places with high grad rates) and even more absurd is that they exist for the development of young people. They are businesses on campus, and their interests often prevail over virtually anything else.

[SMO]

I feel your pain KenT. For me, sports are less of an escape than they used to be but that's not a bad thing. There's sadness in realizing there are fewer "good guys" in sports than I thought and that much of the system is flawed. Finding other outlets can be refreshing.

[SCMatt33]

I'm kind of mixed on this. I completely understand that you want to find something pure to go home and enjoy at the end of the day. On the other hand, if the mistakes of some, or even many sully your view of the entertainment you get from watching them, you can end up being completely cynical about life. It's not like there is much out there to get entertainment from that doesn't have a dark side: sports, movies, music, tv. If you really want to enjoy yourself in a pure way, you have to find something that has value to you, but not everyone. Spend time with friends and family, go to a local theater or small time sporting event, be it a niche college sport or a minor league pro sport.

You came here for advice on it because you can rely on open and honest discussion. No one has to pay to access any content, and it is small enough to be intimate, but large enough to be interesting. You can't find that in big time entertainment. If you want to enjoy those things as they are that's great. I tend to separate the on court and off court aspects of basketball and other sports. If I was a UK fan, I frankly wouldn't care about anything people say about Calipari or whether he follows all the rules. Those things don't make the on court experience any less fun to watch. We can sit here and say that it would make the accomplishments less valuable, but really, accomplishments in sports have no intrinsic value to fans. The value to fans is going along for the ride. The trophies and banners are only reminders of how much we enjoyed the ride. For the players and coaches, the value comes from the life experiences gained along the way. The off court stuff doesn't affect that.

If you truly can't or don't want to separate the on court and off court stuff, I respect that and I would hope that you can find something in which you don't have to separate those things, but I personally prefer to enjoy what happens as its happening and worry about the other stuff as separate issues.

[tfl9399]

Don't judge what you think you know.

While this Penn State scandal is the worst in my lifetime (although some may argue the Dave Bliss incident at Baylor), the worm turned long ago. Division 1 football (in particular) and Division 1 basketball really are not compatible with the mission of most any educational institution. Football really corrupts, even at schools (like Duke) which follow the rules. It costs a fortune, requires the lowering of academic standards not just for a handful of athletes but for tens of them, and disorders the academic priorities of the school. Think Florida State would have a Family Life or Recreation major without football? Likely not.

Football at a place like Penn State is entertainment for the masses. And it permits alums and followers to relive their youth vicariously - the reason why it attracts so much money. But University of Chicago had it right in the 40's when they gave up big time sports.

Accordingly, as disturbing as the event at PSU is, I long ago gave up any illusions over NCAA revenue sports. The notion that the programs exist for young people is hogwash (although it comes closer at Duke and other places with high grad rates) and even more absurd is that they exist for the development of young people. They are businesses on campus, and their interests often prevail over virtually anything else.

[ForkFondler]

While this Penn State scandal is the worst in my lifetime (although some may argue the Dave Bliss incident at Baylor), the worm turned long ago. Division 1 football (in particular) and Division 1 basketball really are not compatible with the mission of most any educational institution. Football really corrupts, even at schools (like Duke) which follow the rules. It costs a fortune, requires the lowering of academic standards not just for a handful of athletes but for tens of them, and disorders the academic priorities of the school. Think Florida State would have a Family Life or Recreation major without football? Likely not.

Football at a place like Penn State is entertainment for the masses. And it permits alums and followers to relive their youth vicariously - the reason why it attracts so much money. But University of Chicago had it right in the 40's when they gave up big time sports.

Accordingly, as disturbing as the event at PSU is, I long ago gave up any illusions over NCAA revenue sports. The notion that the programs exist for young people is hogwash (although it comes closer at Duke and other places with high grad rates) and even more absurd is that they exist for the development of young people. They are businesses on campus, and their interests often prevail over virtually anything else.

As a physical activity, sports serve to connect the ivory towers to the outside world. Especially when they are worthy of spectators. The life of the mind is insular. Ahh, 1905.

[jimsumner]

As a physical activity, sports serve to connect the ivory towers to the outside world. Especially when they are worthy of spectators. The life of the mind is insular. Ahh, 1905.

1905 wasn't all that great, either.

The Faustian bargain between academia and the entertainment industry was made a long time ago. We can fine-tune around the edges but it's still a flawed system, one not employed by any other nation.

Perhaps, for good reason.

That may sound cynical. But these seem to be cynical times.

[basket1544]

With all the scandals and scarring that these sports cause or show, why do we still watch? Why do we still participate and teach our children how to take a charge? Ultimately, on a Saturday afternoon after working hard all week, I want to get together with a group of friends and watch a team in play. I know the sports aren't pure, but watching the quick release of a very good three point shooter or the perfect timing of a well placed ally-oop, I'm able to forget about the "TPS reports" due on my boss' desk Monday. Is that selfish of me? I truly wish the important people in life (teachers, fire fighters, police officers, etc.) were paid the millions instead of those that happen to be able to leap tall buildings in a single bound, but that's not how capitalism works. There are only a very small percentage of people capable of doing what the average NBA player can do. Therefore, they get paid well for it. How they proceed to live their lives is up to them.

[cspan37421]

There are only a very small percentage of people capable of doing what the average NBA player can do. Therefore, they get paid well for it.

It's more than just only a very small % of people can do what NBA players do ... it's that WE value it so highly. So that's the crux ... should we reconsider what we value?

btw, loved the TPS reports reference. Don't forget the cover sheet!

[PADukeMom]

WHY DO I WATCH???

Because Saturdays in the Fall in Pennsylvania means Penn State football.

[PADukeMom]

I feel the exact same way. My heart is broken. If you would have told me last Saturday that JoePa would not be coaching against Nebraska I would have thought you would have to be insane.

I watched the game against Belmont last night with so many mixed emotions. I couldn't watch Penn State today. I haven't missed watching or listening to a Penn State game since 1966. I still remember being that 8 year old little girl with her ear pressed against her AM transistor radio praying that the signal wouldn't be lost before the game ended. Howdo/can I ever get that love back?

In this past month, my Raiders lost Al Davis, my Lions lost JoePa &hopefully on Tuesday K will get the record. I will be at MSG in my DUKE shirt cheering for my team & proud of my coach. I will do so with a broken heart & spirit.

[throatybeard]

Then there are those involving honest, but serious mistakes, such as Lute Olson's connection to an AAU on-campus tournament. Olson was in the early stages of Alzheimer's, relied on some misinformation, permitted use of his autopen and the the UofA chose to clean house.

This is neither here nor there, but the way I heard it, he had a stroke. I hadn't heard the Alzheimer's story. Is that the case?

[basket1544]

I've also had a difficult week as I remember that our sports heroes are truly human and shouldn't be deified. It really hit home for me when the reporters stood outside of what is called Paterno-ville with tents up in the background telling of the student riots. What would happen in Durham if such a scandal would occur? I can't help but thing, "Could such a thing happen in Durham?" It's such a sick and twisted and horrible thing that has happened to the most innocent of children. I am very glad that Pennsylvania is finally taking it seriously and that the men who let this happen are facing serious consequences. I just have such a hard time thinking that this is the same kindly looking grandfather who sat on stage with Coach K last spring and they talked about their high standards of excellence. How can someone pretend to have morals and allow such a horrible thing go on?
Sorry that this is such a long ramble. I promise I did have a point, but I can't remember it now. Just that we should remember that people are not infallible.

[COYS]

I look at it this way. The "golden age" of any sport is a myth. Baseball never had a golden age. When Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig ruled baseball, they did so in a league that didn't allow black players (and was unfriendly to the few who represented other ethnic or religious minorities). The mounds were too high in the 60's. Betting and organized crime marred the game in the nineteen-teens (and probably before that, too). Steroids are only the most recent scandal in a history of scandals that goes back beyond 1890. College football is hardly any different. Loose recruiting rules, segregation, racism, outright cheating, doping . . . these things have plagued football, basketball, swimming, track and field, skiing, biking, soccer . . . you name it. Humans are imperfect and sports are a human creation. It makes sense that sports will always be imperfect.

But sports are still lots of fun. They are filled with wonderful people who accomplish amazing things and give their fans a lot of fun and entertainment along the way. It is even filled with amazing people who sometimes make mistakes, even horrible mistakes, which is likely the case with JoePa. There are villains, heroes, good guys, bad guys, and everything in between. Just like no one can point to a period in human history and declare that the world was perfect for everyone, we're kidding ourselves if we can look back and say that scandals in sports are a recent phenomenon. It is possible that they get more press now (although it'd be hard to be worse than the 1919 Black Sox scandal in baseball) thanks to modern technology, but they've always been there. The good and the bad have always been side by side. Personally, i still think the good far outweighs the bad as we tend to remember the scandals more than we remember the multitude of examples of the good in sports. I feel for everyone who is a Penn State fan. It is a terrible situation. But Penn State will live on and has the ability to continue to make a positive impact on those who participate in its football program just as it did for many years under JoePa, Sandusky notwithstanding. And as for sports as a whole, they will continue just as they always have, warts and all.

[rthomas]

Today: Sports, politics, religion, life...

[moonpie23]

money...

[DukieInKansas]

It is always hard when we find out that the people or programs we have respected are all too human and have feet of clay. I think there is still many positives in sports. If time permits, take a trip to a small town and see how sports can pull a town together - football on a fall evening, basketball on a winter night, baseball on a warm summer evening. I know you aren't in NC, but next summer take the time to see if there is a Miracle League in your area. Here is a link to the NC Triangle area league: http://www.miracleleaguetriangle.org...deo/index.html (Thank you, moonpie23, for the information on this wonderful opportunity. I hope Sam is doing well.) After these horrible aspects come to light, we eventually go back to the watching the sports we love. Unfortunately, we lose some of our ideals from this and are not as shocked when the scandal comes to light.

Ken, I hope that your family life becomes less tumultuous and that you stay safe.

eta - Yes, I realize that I am probably rivaling Ozzie's paradigm of optimism here.

[JasonEvans]

Ken,

You forgot to mention the scandal at Miami. That one is a real doozy, if it proves to be true.

You also forgot to mention how traditional rivalries and structures have been torn apart over the past couple months as schools chase the money in this musical chairs game of conference expansion and contraction. I mean, what is the Big East without a few teams from the West Coast... when you say Syracuse, I instantly think - ACC! ... and it should be easy for Texas and TxA&M to forget decades and decades of annual matchups just so A&M can play South Carolina and Vandy instead.

-Jason "if any of this gets you down, Taylor Branch wrote a nice article recently in The Atlantic that should perk you up right away " Evans