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  1. #521
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    NYC
    Sandusky Speaks:

    This is from an interview that will be airing tonight on NBC with Bob Costas...

    NEW YORK -- Former Penn State defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky is telling NBC that he is innocent of child sex abuse charges that shocked the sports world and resulted in the firing of coach Joe Paterno.

    In a telephone interview with Bob Costas for NBC News' "Rock Center," airing Monday night.

    Sandusky also denies accusations that he is a pedophile, but acknowledged "I could say that I have done some of those things.

    "I have horsed around with kids," Sandusky continued. "I have showered after workouts. I have hugged them and I have touched their legs without intent of sexual contact."

    Sandusky, who founded a charity for disadvantaged youth, acknowledges that he showered with some boys after workouts and shouldn't have done so.

    Paterno was fired last Wednesday for failing to do enough about a 2002 report alleging that Sandusky raped a young boy in the Penn State football showers.

    The Associated Press has made several efforts to reach Sandusky by phone and through his attorney, but messages haven't been returned.


    http://espn.go.com/college-football/...-nbc-interview

  2. #522
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    Nov 2007
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalDukeFan View Post
    Most of all who posted here seem to agree that you don't really know how you would react in the situation you faced it.

    Maureen Dowd has her take in the New York Times.

    Comment 15 is from someone who claims to be have investigated claims of criminal sexual abuse of children in Pennsylvania for 17 years. Not once has a teacher who witnessed the abuse or hear about it from a child called him. Every time they report it the principal or guidance counselor. He or she writes:

    "Not only did Mr. Paterno follow the law as it is written in Pennsylvania, he followed normal protocol as it stands throughout the state of Pennsylvania. For him to be condemned for this is unacceptable.. "

    http://community.nytimes.com/comment...ml?sort=oldest

    Of course after reporting the apparent crime Paterno and McQuery continued to see Sandusky.

    SoCal
    (Emphasis mine)

    I'm still undecided on a lot of things about this, but it seems like it would be pretty easy to counter that normal protocol throughout the state of Pennsylvania (and most likely nationwide) should be condemned entirely. Schools (particularly schools in the K-12 range) do not have the resources to properly investigate these issues and may not have the proper motivation or incentive to see the investigation through as it should. This kind of issue should go straight to the police, end of story.

  3. #523
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by PADukeMom View Post
    My take, the key witness says ...

    …the truth is not out there fully…

    The grand jury report wasn't an impartial, balanced evaluation of the situation, it is a summary of the evidence supporting the conclusion. The whole story hasn't yet come out.

  4. #524
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    Feb 2008
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    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post

    The grand jury report wasn't an impartial, balanced evaluation of the situation, it is a summary of the evidence supporting the conclusion. The whole story hasn't yet come out.
    and the report just happened to be made public. "The grand jury indictment had been filed under seal, but because of a computer glitch it had mistakenly been made public."

    http://althouse.blogspot.com/2011/11...een-filed.html

  5. #525
    How stupid is it that Sandusky admits on prime time TV that he took showers with 10 year old boys? Very creepy.
    ~rthomas

  6. #526
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Quote Originally Posted by rthomas View Post
    How stupid is it that Sandusky admits on prime time TV that he took showers with 10 year old boys? Very creepy.
    Well if he denies that, then nobody is going to believe him about anything, it's already a given that he did take the showers. By admitting to one event he's hoping to persuade somebody that he's also truthful in saying that he didn't have sex with the kids. Gutsy strategy, especially since everything he says publicly is admissable in court. On NPR this morning they were reviewing the interview and really were taken back by his answer to the "are you sexually attracted to young boys" question. He took about a minute to finally say no, when you would hope that his answer would consist of only two words, "hell no". His lawyer needs his head examined for allowing the interview.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  7. #527
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    My take, the key witness says ...




    The grand jury report wasn't an impartial, balanced evaluation of the situation, it is a summary of the evidence supporting the conclusion. The whole story hasn't yet come out.
    No No Noooo I don't think the point I was trying to make was clear enough. It is this whole cycle in Pennsylvania of corruption of children. In my local county 3 judges were convicted to sending children to juvie detention in exchange for cash to the center that was owned & operated by a local attorney & real estate developer. What I was trying to point out was that I was not surprised that this judge was so leinient on bail because she was connections to Sandusky. She needs to resign.

  8. #528
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Well, speaking about lenient bail arrangements...if the Attorney General, now the Governor of PA, knew about molestation incidents as far back as 2008, why wasn't Sandusky arrested around that time, instead of waiting until November 2011?

    Edit: Apprarently Corbett got the case in March, 2009

    Penn State probe moved slowly

  9. #529
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    St. Louis
    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    (Emphasis mine)

    I'm still undecided on a lot of things about this, but it seems like it would be pretty easy to counter that normal protocol throughout the state of Pennsylvania (and most likely nationwide) should be condemned entirely. Schools (particularly schools in the K-12 range) do not have the resources to properly investigate these issues and may not have the proper motivation or incentive to see the investigation through as it should. This kind of issue should go straight to the police, end of story.
    It is normal procedure in the state in which I practice (Missouri) for teachers to report such a matter to a principal or counselor, who will ask the victim a few questions (just to confirm that there is reason to suspect abuse or neglect), and the principal or counselor will call the child abuse hot line. It is very clearly NOT the school's responsibility to investigate; their responsibility is to report.

  10. #530
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by rasputin View Post
    It is normal procedure in the state in which I practice (Missouri) for teachers to report such a matter to a principal or counselor, who will ask the victim a few questions (just to confirm that there is reason to suspect abuse or neglect), and the principal or counselor will call the child abuse hot line. It is very clearly NOT the school's responsibility to investigate; their responsibility is to report.
    One of the points made in one of the earliest articles is that "reporting up the chain" is just fine -- provided it does get reported to the authorities. The police don't want to get six separate reports on the same incident.

    sagegrouse

  11. #531
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    One of the points made in one of the earliest articles is that "reporting up the chain" is just fine -- provided it does get reported to the authorities. The police don't want to get six separate reports on the same incident.

    sagegrouse
    Correct. There is a similar procedure in most school districts in Texas. The issue is, and always will be in this case, if McQueary saw what the grand jury report said he saw, it's clearly a crime. This isn't a case of Johnny coming to school with a black eye and a teacher suspecting problems at home. You obviously don't want teachers jumping to conclusions without raising it up the ladder. But in this instance, *if* the facts are as laid out in the GJ report, this goes waaaay beyond that.

    I'm done speculating on why McQueary/Paterno didn't put pressure on their bosses to follow through when I assume they saw Sandusky hanging around the Ath Dept again weeks/months after the incident. There are myriad reasons why they didn't, almost all inexcusable, even if some are to an extent understandable. We'll have to see what comes out as this thing gets played out in the PA justice system.

  12. #532
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lynchburg, VA
    This might change people's view of McQueary.

    A source familiar with the state investigation of child sexual assault allegations against Jerry Sandusky tells ESPN's Tom Rinaldi that Mike McQueary stopped Sandusky's alleged rape of a boy as young as 10 years old that McQueary witnessed at a shower at the Penn State practice facility in 2002.
    and

    In the email, first obtained and reported Tuesday by The Morning Call of Allentown, Pa., McQueary said he "did have discussions with police and with the official at the university in charge of police" after the alleged incident.

  13. #533
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    [QUOTE=mph;528487]This might change people's view of McQueary.




    As several folks have tried to caution people, we just don't know that all that has been reported is true, and much just hasn't been reported at all yet. If McQueary indeed stopped the assault and talked to police... then lots of people (including me, by the way) have been jumping on McQueary for no reason. And this news could shine a kinder light on Joe Paterno, as well.
    Man, if your Mom made you wear that color when you were a baby, and you're still wearing it, it's time to grow up!

  14. #534
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by rasputin View Post
    It is normal procedure in the state in which I practice (Missouri) for teachers to report such a matter to a principal or counselor, who will ask the victim a few questions (just to confirm that there is reason to suspect abuse or neglect), and the principal or counselor will call the child abuse hot line. It is very clearly NOT the school's responsibility to investigate; their responsibility is to report.
    Well, except that you say in your first sentence that they will investigate (on a small level) to determine whether to proceed to the police for further investigation. Do I trust administrators to do the right thing? No, and apparently I shouldn't (there are great administrators out there, not knocking all of them; but even bad one renders the "up the chain" strategy ineffective).

    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    One of the points made in one of the earliest articles is that "reporting up the chain" is just fine -- provided it does get reported to the authorities. The police don't want to get six separate reports on the same incident.

    sagegrouse
    True, which is why I would want the first person that finds out to contact the police, and then inform up the ladder that police have been contacted and the school may want to pursue some action of its own with the knowledge that a member of the faculty has been accused of sexual abuse. As long as the higher ups are aware that a report has been filed there shouldn't be any concern of multiple reports.

    An alternative to reporting straight to the police...report directly to the parents and see how they want to proceed. Just don't like adding administrators as "middle-men" here when they might have other interests that conflict with the best interests of the child as it appears may have happened here.

  15. #535
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    St. Louis
    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    Well, except that you say in your first sentence that they will investigate (on a small level) to determine whether to proceed to the police for further investigation. Do I trust administrators to do the right thing? No, and apparently I shouldn't (there are great administrators out there, not knocking all of them; but even bad one renders the "up the chain" strategy ineffective).



    True, which is why I would want the first person that finds out to contact the police, and then inform up the ladder that police have been contacted and the school may want to pursue some action of its own with the knowledge that a member of the faculty has been accused of sexual abuse. As long as the higher ups are aware that a report has been filed there shouldn't be any concern of multiple reports.

    An alternative to reporting straight to the police...report directly to the parents and see how they want to proceed. Just don't like adding administrators as "middle-men" here when they might have other interests that conflict with the best interests of the child as it appears may have happened here.
    My reference was not to some "chain" that has a large number of links in it. Teachers normally will talk to a principal and/or counselor, who makes a report (although the teacher is also free to make a report).

  16. #536
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalDukeFan View Post
    Most of all who posted here seem to agree that you don't really know how you would react in the situation you faced it.

    Maureen Dowd has her take in the New York Times.

    Comment 15 is from someone who claims to be have investigated claims of criminal sexual abuse of children in Pennsylvania for 17 years. Not once has a teacher who witnessed the abuse or hear about it from a child called him. Every time they report it the principal or guidance counselor.

    How very interesting that you posted this because we JUST had an in-service on this today at our school and I have the paperwork sitting in front of me. According to our school district's policy for reporting student abuse by a school employee (which our administrators actually verbally compared to the sex scandal at Penn State because it was an "former" employee), it states:
    "A school employee shall immediately contact the principal when the school has reasonable cause to suspect that the student....is as victim of serious bodily injury or sexual abuse or sexual exploitation by a school employee."

    After going over the 7 page document, our administrators told us not to contact the police or Children and Youth Services unless the accused employee is the principal. At that point we would contact the Superintendent.

    So, this comment about teachers not contacting police and/or outside services is a little off-base. If the policy is in place to contact an administrator or school counselor who then reports it to authorities, then it makes perfect sense that they are the ones reporting it every time. It is our responsibility as a district to report, not investigate.

    If there was no follow-up by the district and I suspected the abuse was ongoing, then I can sit here and say I'd contact the police because I am a good person and want to do everything to protect that child, but we never know how we would actually react given a certain situation until we are in it. I just pray to God I'm never presented with anything so horrific!
    Last edited by DukeGirl4ever; 11-16-2011 at 06:27 PM.

  17. #537
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeGirl4ever View Post
    So, this comment about teachers not contacting police and/or outside services is a little off-base. If the policy is in place to contact an administrator or school counselor who then reports it to authorities, then it makes perfect sense that they are the ones reporting it every time. It is our responsibility as a district to report, not investigate.

    If there was no follow-up by the district and I suspected the abuse was ongoing, then I can sit here and say I'd contact the police because I am a good person and want to do everything to protect that child, but we never know how we would actually react given a certain situation until we are in it. I just pray to God I'm never presented with anything so horrific!
    So, to relate this back to the Penn State situation, didn't Joe Paterno also follow an established policy by reporting the incident to his administrator? And his original involvement was second-hand, not directly witnessing the act.

    How much blame does he deserve here?

  18. #538
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Port Townsend, WA
    wow.

    That seems to me to be a lot of insulation to protect the institutions. I hear you that you would go further if the process didn't work but it also sounds like a whole lot of personal risk just to stop young people from being raped.

    I don't know if any victims read this forum but as one (not of this institution but the Catholics) I want to say to y'all: None of this is your fault. And you do not have to be a victim, or a survivor or any other cliche crap the counselors throw at you! Your only fault is that you trusted somebody in authority, somebody you looked up to, somebody cool, somebody with keys to a kingdom you never dreamed you'd get into. Yet, they took you there. And you got a piece of the dream. And then the nightmare came.

    And it is NOT YOUR FAULT.

    You are not flawed. You aren't discounted. And you are not scarred.

    You've outlived it. Listen to Coach K - Next Play!

  19. #539
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO

    Joe Pa's Liability

    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    So, to relate this back to the Penn State situation, didn't Joe Paterno also follow an established policy by reporting the incident to his administrator? And his original involvement was second-hand, not directly witnessing the act.

    How much blame does he deserve here?
    Joe Paterno went "by the book" in alerting the AD. Whether he accurately reported what was said by McQueary or under-reported it is somewhat irrelevent, in that Curley and Schultz both interviewed McQ. No problems there.

    One problem for Joe P. is an apparent failure to follow up (hector?) Curley to see that action was taken. Sure, Curley was his nominal superior, but Joe P. was far more powerful.

    The bigger problem for Joe Paterno is a long string of incidents and a clearcut pattern of behavior that indicated Sandusky had a problem with young men and boys (gosh, it is painful even to write that sentence). Costa this AM said he was surprised how much Sandusky said during his interview this week and, while his admitted behavior was not criminal, it was indeed "creepy." I tend to believe that Paterno knew everything that happened relative to Penn State football (much as K knows everything that happens at Duke). Let me restate that: "Joe Pa knew EVERYTHING related to Penn State football." There was a criminal investigation against Sandusky in 1998 for incidents that happened in Penn State athletic facilities. Does anyone really believe that Paterno did not know about this? Sandusky, by his own words, has said that he was told that year that he would not be head coach at Penn State. Then he retired the following year and never coached again, despite his immense reputation as a coach and recruiter. Does anyone really believe these events and non-events were unrelated to the criminal investigation and his "creepy" behavior? Meanwhile, Sandusky still had status at Penn State, was allowed to use facilities, and was able to bring young boys into the athletic facilities. Joe Pa could have stopped all of his Penn State access at any time and did not.

    Here are the obvious questions about the future:

    Is Joe criminally liable for any of this? I can't see how.

    Is this going to ruin his reputation to the end of time? Yes, it may well do that.

    Does he have potential liabilities through civil lawsuits? Sure, he has a lot of money and was Sandusky's supervisor for 23 years. (Aha! A "viable" defendant.) Of course, he's gonna get sued, whether he was at fault or not. But the bigger problem to me is that he tried to protect Penn State but did not do nearly enough to protect Sandusky's alleged victims.

    sagegrouse

  20. #540
    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    So, to relate this back to the Penn State situation, didn't Joe Paterno also follow an established policy by reporting the incident to his administrator? And his original involvement was second-hand, not directly witnessing the act.

    How much blame does he deserve here?
    Based on our district's policy, Paterno did what he was supposed to do. It was Curley and Schultz that failed to take the necessary steps.
    That being said, I haven't seen PSU's "abuse" policy although I would assume it is similar. But you know what they say about people who ASSUME things...

    Since JoePa followed the steps (according to our policy) the court system said he would not be charged. Like others have said, however, it was how the follow-up was handled that are making people question his ethics.

    Honestly, I don't know where I stand on all of this. There is way too much info out there for me to sort through and we haven't even come close to hearing every angle. Just wanted to pass on the info that we were given as a district and how we "should" follow through with child abuse situations.

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