The Sex Abuse Scandal at PSU

[MCFinARL]

Thank you for saying this again. Several others have posted this idea, including me, to no avail.

It is naive and unrealistic to think that we know the answer to this question about what we'd do until we face the real situation which demands an immediate response most likely tinged with some adrenaline. A number of professions incorporate rigorous training and practice to be ready to act without having to decide what to do, but none of us knows what we'll actually do until the real event happens.

Amen And in my case I have enough doubts to hope I never have to find out.

[SoCalDukeFan]

"When I was invited to be part of a panel discussion at the Duke Law School in the wake of the scandal surrounding the men's lacrosse program, one of the most powerful realizations was how little we all knew at an early stage of the process, when key decisions were made and assumptions were treated as fact."

MALCOLM MORAN, Knight Chair in Sports Journalism and Society at Penn State

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-...377,full.story

[peterjswift]

Here's a link: http://content.usatoday.com/communit...rative-leave/1

Not really much information on why the decision was made, but I think it is a good idea...especially for the players. One less level of distraction, one less person that opposing teams will relentlessly boo. It has been said a variety of times on here, but I imagine the entire coaching staff will be gone in the next few months anyhow.

[stillcrazie]

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/...jerry-sandusky

Watch this interview with Jon Ritchie, who knew Sandusky and was recruited by him. Very insightful.

[SCMatt33]

I have stumbled upon a very interesting source of information, one of the members of PSU's board of trustees. My brother lives in NYC and is on a trial membership at a tennis club. Yesterday, he ended up playing against one of PSU's trustees. He didn't find out until he commented about my sister, who is a freshman at Delaware, but almost went to Penn State.

Anyway, he did talk about several aspects of the decision to fire Joe Paterno, but did not talk about much else, including McQueary. The first thing I can tell you is that there was only one dissenting vote in the decision to fire Paterno, who happened to be this particular trustee. His main reason seems to be similar to that of many within the Penn State community. He feels that since Paterno is no legal trouble, no decision should have been made until all the facts played out. He was also very critical of the way the university acted very early on, by not bringing in any lawyers or PR people before releasing statements of support. Despite not supporting firing Paterno, he did support the other actions, including firing Spanier, placing Curley on administrative leave, and getting rid of Schultz.

My brother and I both feel that his views seem a bit hypocritical in that he was critical for not being organized and taking action early on, but then wanted them to wait on firing Paterno.

The other interesting thing that he had to say, and it was obviously speculation on his part, was that they wouldn't have fired Paterno, but had to do it to make up for their earlier blunders and save face in the press.

[weezie]

Wow, this trustee sounds like an idiot. No wonder he was the lone dissenting vote.

[Turk]

SCMatt, your post lines up very well with this article from the Philly Inky about how poorly the board handled this, especially Paterno's dismissal.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20...e_experts.html

Perhaps Trustee Surma, based on his day job as CEO of U.S. Steel and its 140-year history of effective public relations, thought he had the matter well in hand. After all, we learned today the Trustees are appointing a committee to study the matter. Um, I think that work has already been done; the committee in this case is something called a "grand jury".

Paterno certainly lost whatever right to coach anymore, but I believe that the trustees subconsciously took the opportunity for payback when they and Spanier went to his house in 2004 to get him to retire and Paterno pretty much told them "get the hell out of my yard".

[SMO]

I have stumbled upon a very interesting source of information, one of the members of PSU's board of trustees. My brother lives in NYC and is on a trial membership at a tennis club. Yesterday, he ended up playing against one of PSU's trustees. He didn't find out until he commented about my sister, who is a freshman at Delaware, but almost went to Penn State.

My brother and I both feel that his views seem a bit hypocritical in that he was critical for not being organized and taking action early on, but then wanted them to wait on firing Paterno.

The other interesting thing that he had to say, and it was obviously speculation on his part, was that they wouldn't have fired Paterno, but had to do it to make up for their earlier blunders and save face in the press.

if true, this would make the trustee's spokesperson a liar as he said it was unanimous.

[uh_no]

The other interesting thing that he had to say, and it was obviously speculation on his part, was that they wouldn't have fired Paterno, but had to do it to make up for their earlier blunders and save face in the press.

Its been days since i've read this thread, but I want to comment on how i've felt through the whole thing. I have no special connection to joe paterno or PSU, other than joe is a human being, as am I.

I am convinced that JP is a good man, and this situation has not changed that. JP is of a different generation than most of the people here. His formative years were the forties. I think there are very few, if any people who can comment on what the values and culture was like back then (how many people here were even BORN in the 40s???) People have condemned Joe for not doing more, and I in a way agree. My concern is that having grown up in such a different time, is it possible that JP's upbringing and morals told him that he had done enough? that the proper course of action in situations like this was to yield to your superiors? Thus that by telling his boss, it was now the moral responsibility of the boss to take the proper course of action?

I don't know. I didn't grow up when he did or have a remotely similar upbringing I'm sure, but it seems that respect for authority is somehting that was more heavily emphasized in previous generations. So did joe go to his boss and say whatever, and then feel that he had done his duty by reporting it to his superior? Obviously our current culture says no, but would the culture in the 40s and 50s have said yes? I don't know, but its certainly an interesting thing to consider. What one could argue, and something that I would agree with is that difference in culture, which caused him to not report this incident further is enough to say that he is unfit to be a football coach in today's age.

Therefore, I think it is possible to condemn his actions without condemning him (since his actions were acceptable in a previous time). And thus the firing is justifiable by saying that the culture he grew up in did not provide him with the tools he needs to adequately deal with situations in today's society. That's not Joe's fault, that's not his parents fault, and its not the administrations fault. Its simply that times change, and people, much less so. It's unfortunate that this decision had to be made like this, and that it took this situation to realize that JP could not adequately handle these situations.

I thus hope JP can go out with his head held high at what he has accomplished at PSU. I hope he is satisfied that he did what HE thought was right in the situation (since that may have been what he was taught to do when being molded by society). For all we know, he seems to have agonized about his decision as much as everyone, and may have even agonized over the fact that his boss swept it under the rug. Ultimately we don't know.

It takes a lifetime to build trust, and a moment to lose it. After a lifetime of building trust, I find it hard to believe Joe would avoid doing what he thought was right in order to "save face" or whatever. Perhaps it is simple naivete, and chances are we will never know for sure. In the end I feel bad for a guy who did what he thought was right and may have ended up being the wrong guy in the wrong place at the wrong time.

After all that, It is important to note that the damage to the kids in the case is irreparable, and that is absolutely horrible. Their future is more important than any actions PSU might take. I don't think firing Joe brings any sort of catharsis to them, or that firing JP helps these kids or prevents this from happening in the future. Just that Joe's actions demonstrate that what he believes is right does not mesh with today's culture, and that is sign enough that he needed to cede power.

[g-money]

What this incident has taught me:

1. Lots of people are perfect.
2. Many people know exactly how they would react when confrnted with a terrible act.
3. Numerous people are willing to sit in judgement of others without knowing all the information
4. Our culture loves one thing more than building up heros, and that is tearing them down in a public light.

Yep, that pretty much sums up the public/media reaction to this case. Item 3 is what concerns me the most: In this era of the blogosphere, all I see on the horizon is the "lynch media" phenomenon growing stronger, with nothing by way of government regulation or public outcry to slow it down.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Its been days since i've read this thread, but I want to comment on how i've felt through the whole thing. I have no special connection to joe paterno or PSU, other than joe is a human being, as am I.

I am convinced that JP is a good man, and this situation has not changed that. JP is of a different generation than most of the people here. His formative years were the forties. I think there are very few, if any people who can comment on what the values and culture was like back then (how many people here were even BORN in the 40s???) People have condemned Joe for not doing more, and I in a way agree. My concern is that having grown up in such a different time, is it possible that JP's upbringing and morals told him that he had done enough? that the proper course of action in situations like this was to yield to your superiors? Thus that by telling his boss, it was now the moral responsibility of the boss to take the proper course of action?

I don't know. I didn't grow up when he did or have a remotely similar upbringing I'm sure, but it seems that respect for authority is somehting that was more heavily emphasized in previous generations. So did joe go to his boss and say whatever, and then feel that he had done his duty by reporting it to his superior? Obviously our current culture says no, but would the culture in the 40s and 50s have said yes? I don't know, but its certainly an interesting thing to consider. What one could argue, and something that I would agree with is that difference in culture, which caused him to not report this incident further is enough to say that he is unfit to be a football coach in today's age.

Therefore, I think it is possible to condemn his actions without condemning him (since his actions were acceptable in a previous time). And thus the firing is justifiable by saying that the culture he grew up in did not provide him with the tools he needs to adequately deal with situations in today's society. That's not Joe's fault, that's not his parents fault, and its not the administrations fault. Its simply that times change, and people, much less so. It's unfortunate that this decision had to be made like this, and that it took this situation to realize that JP could not adequately handle these situations.

I thus hope JP can go out with his head held high at what he has accomplished at PSU. I hope he is satisfied that he did what HE thought was right in the situation (since that may have been what he was taught to do when being molded by society). For all we know, he seems to have agonized about his decision as much as everyone, and may have even agonized over the fact that his boss swept it under the rug. Ultimately we don't know.

It takes a lifetime to build trust, and a moment to lose it. After a lifetime of building trust, I find it hard to believe Joe would avoid doing what he thought was right in order to "save face" or whatever. Perhaps it is simple naivete, and chances are we will never know for sure. In the end I feel bad for a guy who did what he thought was right and may have ended up being the wrong guy in the wrong place at the wrong time.

After all that, It is important to note that the damage to the kids in the case is irreparable, and that is absolutely horrible. Their future is more important than any actions PSU might take. I don't think firing Joe brings any sort of catharsis to them, or that firing JP helps these kids or prevents this from happening in the future. Just that Joe's actions demonstrate that what he believes is right does not mesh with today's culture, and that is sign enough that he needed to cede power.

If I may intervene with some facts: Joe Paterno was born December 21, 1926. He was in college 1946-1949. I would say that his formative years, in the sense that the term is often applied in describing a person's development, were during the era of the Great Depression, not WWI.

Those of us who were born in the forties are part of the generation now known as the post war baby boom, the generation caught up in the civil unrest of the sixties and the generation who have challenged established notions at every stage of life.

[SCMatt33]

if true, this would make the trustee's spokesperson a liar as he said it was unanimous.

I would guess that he officially changed his vote at the last minute to allow that to be technically true, but was still a dissenter to the end. I didn't talk to my brother about that, and I doubt that he talked to the Trustee about it, but I would guess that is what happened.

[uh_no]

Yep, that pretty much sums up the public/media reaction to this case. Item 3 is what concerns me the most: In this era of the blogosphere, all I see on the horizon is the "lynch media" phenomenon growing stronger, with nothing in the works to slow it down.

It's horrible that our world is so based on feeling superior to others. I think it is that basis that causes us to LOVE tearing down others. Take tiger woods for instance: if one had never cheated on his wife, he could say "yeah i'm a jerk, and a crappy husband and father, but at least i'm not tiger woods," and for people who have, it provides some sort of justification, some sort of feeling that "hey maybe i'm not the huge jerk I thought I was" Essentially by laughing at others' failings, we feel superior to them and are able to in effect, justify our own shortcomings.

It's kind of silly to have a need to feel better than other people rather than just accept who you are, but It's a product being human (IMHO). An individual unfortunately is not going to sway public perception or alleviate the need for others' to feel superior. The best one can do is say these public figures are human. JP is a good man and didn't perform up to societal standards. I'd be honored if I raised kids who were as good people as JP is. Tiger made some mistakes, but I (and frankly no one here) can understand the type of pressure he was under a) from the other women, b) from the media to be perfect, and c) from himself to be perfect. Has no one else in the history of man kind broken down from the pressure to do everything perfectly and made huge mistakes? I know I make bad decisions when I put too much pressure on myself.

These are just a couple of examples, but if I had to sit down with these guys, what I would say to them is "I know you're not perfect, neither am I...I admire you for your success in your respective domains, and thanks for doing that, because you certainly drive me to be as successful as I can be in mine."

[Turk]

Next comes the news that the NCAA wants a peice of the action, since they did such a good job with Ohio State and Miami...

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...enn_State.html

What I find infuriating is that the writer has the gall to quote Barry Switzer, yes, THAT Barry Switzer offering his opinions on Paterno. That's wrong on so many levels I don't know where to start. Ah, but then the googler sets me on the right path. We can begin with a quick summary of the more colorful highlights of Coach Switzer's tenure at Oklahoma. (We won't go into details about the SEC's accusation of insider trading, because Switzer was found innocent. And by "SEC" I mean the government agency, not the football conference.) Go ahead and read it. I'll wait.

http://www.newson6.com/story/1055033...edirected=true

Is that the next wave of media coverage? All the cheaters, criminals, and frauds in college sports get to take free shots at Paterno? No, sir.

[uh_no]

Is that the next wave of media coverage? All the cheaters, criminals, and frauds in college sports get to take free shots at Paterno? No, sir.

disgusting.

[MaxAMillion]

I don't think Joe Paterno is a good man. I think if his grandbabies were being assaulted by a monster, he would have made sure that the monster was stopped. I certainly doubt that he would have allowed the molester to continue to have contact with his program.

[uh_no]

I don't think Joe Paterno is a good man. I think if his grandbabies were being assaulted by a monster, he would have made sure that the monster was stopped. I certainly doubt that he would have allowed the molester to continue to have contact with his program.

Unfortunately there is no argument someone could make to which I couldn't respond "cultural difference between the 40's and today," which in a sense makes my argument weaker, but in the end none of us no JP or what he thought or why he thought the decisions he made were right. I therefore withhold passing judgement. There is always a difference when you are dealing with your family. Would I treat my coworkers how I do my siblings? Would I help a person on the street as much as I would help a family member? I don't, and thus can't condemn a man solely on that basis.

[ForkFondler]

Here's a link: http://content.usatoday.com/communit...rative-leave/1

Not really much information on why the decision was made, but I think it is a good idea...especially for the players. One less level of distraction, one less person that opposing teams will relentlessly boo. It has been said a variety of times on here, but I imagine the entire coaching staff will be gone in the next few months anyhow.

This is what they should have done with Paterno too.

[SCMatt33]

This is what they should have done with Paterno too.

They didn't really have that option with Paterno. Anyone put on leave will presumably stay there until the facts play themselves out, which will take several months at the very least. There was no chance of Paterno coaching past this year as his contract was up and he wasn't likely to get a new one. Letting him sit on leave until the problem goes away would be like the business version of a pocket veto.

[GDT]

What this incident has taught me:

1. Lots of people are perfect.
2. Many people know exactly how they would react when confrnted with a terrible act.
3. Numerous people are willing to sit in judgement of others without knowing all the information
4. Our culture loves one thing more than building up heros, and that is tearing them down in a public light.

It's always good to learn something from as appalling an event as this. I guess my lesson is that a monster can hide in plain sight, founding a charity for abused kids then grooming them to be abused again, abusing them in public places on a university's campus, taking them on away games and sleeping with them alone in a hotel room, be witnessed at least twice in the act, be accused by one of the children but not charged; in fact, follow the entire pedophile's handbook from cover to cover in as brazen a manner as I have ever heard with every warning sign flaunted to the public and a group of men, including one deemed the ethical paragon of his profession (turning boys in to men) still turned a blind eye to it all. I hope others learn it too, because that's the only way anything remotely life-affirming comes of the whole affair so that maybe next time who know how many children's lives are not ruined. But your four things are good too.