The Sex Abuse Scandal at PSU

[peterjswift]

I guess I am on a different page (planet?) than some of you. Two points --

1. The Trustees decided that for the good of the University it would be better, far better that Joe paterno did not coach another game. I gotta agree. Saturday would have been a lovefest for Joe Paterno, in the wake of a horrible scandal, where as the head football coach he was at the center. Think of the victims. Talk about inappropriate! The action of the Trustees did not say that Paterno was at fault but that it was best for Penn State for him not to coach any more.

2. Two nights ago I watched and heard and could barely understand a doddering old man, who would not be asked to coach a playground team. If every day is an audition, does anyone think there was any day for years and years where Joe Paterno passed the test?

sagegrouse

I have to agree with the first part of point #1. I think the trustees were backed into a corner (partially by the lynch-media - thanks whoever coined that term!), and they made the right decision for the university. I don't think it is because it would have been a lovefest. I think Paterno, in order to protect his players and the school, should have resigned yesterday. He had to know this was coming, whether he thought he was in the right or not. I cannot imagine what it would be like for those players to hear what they are bound to hear in Columbus next week if Paterno was still coaching. I'm not even convinced it would be a lovefest for Joe on Saturday. I would not be surprised if there was audible booing at the game for him. I live right in the midst of Penn State land, and even the most committed fans fall on both sides with this...some want to not just fire Paterno, but want him jailed, others think he is a saint. I think Joe Pa not coaching on Saturday is a good thing for the players in the midst of this horrible situation.

As far as point 2, I think you're completely wrong on this. I don't personally know Joe, but don't you remember the ESPN segment with Coach K earlier this summer? I thought Joe handled that pretty well and I listen to his radio show almost every week. His brain is functioning just fine. I went down-hill skiing with my own grandfather when he was eighty years old, and he went ice-skating the next day. Not everyone ages the same. I have my doubts about the range and scope of his abilities, and I also think he probably should have retired a while ago, but he is not a "doddering old man, who would not be asked to coach a playground team." I'm not saying he is the same guy he was 40 years ago, or that he should be the head coach of a D1 football team, but doddering old man is far across the line.

[cspan37421]

LOL, you mean like Coach K dominates Duke? What exactly DO you mean by this? How has Paterno dominated Penn State?

My comment stands on its own and applies to any school, country, or business. It is wise for an organization, whether it is a college, country, or business, to put its interests above that of any one employee (or citizen, i.e., we are a nation of laws, not of men). Who determines when the influence or interest of an individual holds improper weight? In the case of PSU it's the Board of Trustees.

I heard audio this morning of JoePa's supporters outside his house last night, when he announced to them that he had been let go via telephone call. They were fiercely loyal to him, expressing their love, appreciation, support, etc. And of course some went on to riot in their outrage.

I am trying to remember ... did anyone riot in outrage that no one called the cops or child protective services when the graduate assistant reported what he saw? I didn't think so. So I'm kind of sickened at that imbalance in loyalty and concern.

[HCheek37]

I have 3 thoughts/opinions to add to the discussion...

1) The decision of the Board must have been very difficult but was very necessary. Joe Paterno may have more or less fault in the situation than we currently know, but it was unimaginable to think he could lead his team on the field this weekend or in the near future. The enormous reach of this case, the vast (growing) allegations, and the uncertainty of who knew what meant that this would continue to spiral out of control without action. Obviously there is nothing the board can do to quell the situation at hand, but they took the first steps needed to right the ship at the University. I have tons of respect for Joe Paterno and what he represents as a coach. As for his role in this case, none of us can be 100% sure of what he knew. I hope that once this case is finalized and Mr. Sandusky is locked up for the rest of his life, we can honor Joe Paterno for the great coach and teacher that he was.

2) Gerald "Jerry" Sandusky must become the focus of the media. I have heard his name 1/10th the amount of times I've heard Joe Paterno. Sandusky has received multiple awards and recognition for his efforts in the community. http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/b...-as-angel.html
and
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...85/2/index.htm
These articles praise him for almost 30 years of service and make me physically sick to think about how many more kids were possibly accosted. The fact that he adopted kids and was a foster parent to others gives me a queasy feeling that more kids are going to come forward. I also cannot believe that he is out of jail on 100k bail, this disgusting human is walking around State College, PA, a free man for the time being. How does the judge let him ever see the light of day before his trial? I have no doubt that he will have a rough go once imprisoned, convicts aren't too kind to people who mess with children.

3)This point is much less important and something that I should probably save for later, but I hope that nothing, even something to an extent 1/100th as shocking as this marks the end of K's career at Duke. I cannot imagine the shock and disbelief around State College this week as their well-respected, nationally commended football program has fallen from grace. There will never be any mention of Joe Paterno where this scandal is not thought of, and that is a terrible way to end an illustrious and loyal career. Coach K is the closest we have to Joe Paterno in college basketball and I have the utmost faith in Duke and the people at the University to uphold our strong standards of excellence.

[cspan37421]

Even if he had immediately gone to police, I don't know if it would have been enough to clear Paterno in the court of public opinion.

Assuming JP knew nothing of the pre-2002 incident(s), it would have more than cleared him with me. He'd have been a hero. I don't know what the court of public opinion might say though.

For me, it's what he knew, when he knew it, and what he did or didn't do about it.

[dukeballboy88]

Mark Madden just said on WEEI that reports coming that Sandusky & Second Mile pimped out young boys to rich donors!!!

[BD80]

The behind the scenes maneuvering and power struggles and butt-covering must be fascinating yet disgusting.

Is McQueary now accorded "whistle-blower" status and safe from the fall-out?

Why didn't they give JoePa the chance to retire, even if it was now rather than at the end of the year? Sounds like somebody wanted to embarrass Joe, whether to make him a scapegoat and deflect blame from PSU admin or for other reasons.

With perjury charges against 2 officials, how do they proceed with the house-cleaning?

How much do they have to give Urban Meyer, and when do they pull the trigger?

Why did it take the Grand Jury so long to conduct the investigation?

[cspan37421]

The behind the scenes maneuvering and power struggles and butt-covering must be fascinating yet disgusting.

Is McQueary now accorded "whistle-blower" status and safe from the fall-out?

Why didn't they give JoePa the chance to retire, even if it was now rather than at the end of the year? Sounds like somebody wanted to embarrass Joe, whether to make him a scapegoat and deflect blame from PSU admin or for other reasons.

With perjury charges against 2 officials, how do they proceed with the house-cleaning?

How much do they have to give Urban Meyer, and when do they pull the trigger?

Why did it take the Grand Jury so long to conduct the investigation?

McQueary: that's a tough one. Stanley Milgram would understand why he would defer to JoePa's judgment. But if he was 28, and he saw what he saw, he's got to look beyond his employment situation and make the call himself. It's not easy, but boy, there are times when your humanity has to come before your job, and that's one of them. If he really would have gotten fired for reporting Sandusky to the police or child protective services, he'd probably have a pretty solid lawsuit in his favor - eventually.

To your point, though, I don't know about whistleblower status and whether it would apply here - unless there really was an active cover-up and a conscious effort to protect Sandusky despite full knowledge of what he was doing. That's not nearly been established yet.

As for JoePa, it sounded to me from the reports of what he said the BOT should and should not be doing, he didn't want to retire. They tried to do that years ago and he rebuffed them then. I don't think anyone wanted to embarrass Joe - quite the opposite. I think people - even the GJ - would have loved to not have this affect him as it has. If he failed to live up to his own well-known high ethical standards, he embarrassed himself.

[cspan37421]

Mark Madden just said on WEEI that reports coming that Sandusky & Second Mile pimped out young boys to rich donors!!!

This struck me as potentially a violation for rumor mongering, but it is out there:

http://www.nesn.com/2011/11/jerry-sa...rk-madden.html

[JasonEvans]

This struck me as potentially a violation for rumor mongering, but it is out there:

http://www.nesn.com/2011/11/jerry-sa...rk-madden.html

I have seen mentions of this on twitter too. I would prefer we stay away from speculating about this until there is some more solid evidence. What we have right now is a rumor that some zealous members of the media are mentioning as a rumor. In my book, that hardly qualifies as something worth discussing at this point.

--Jason "repeating a rumor does not make it true... I am disgusted at the low standards for journalism these days" Evans

[cspan37421]

Jason, your sig is right ... at the time I posted I didn't catch that the NESN article simply re-iterated what madden had said on the sports talk radio. My apologies for, in effect, repeating the rumor. Thought I had another source.

[A-Tex Devil]

Jason, your sig is right ... at the time I posted I didn't catch that the NESN article simply re-iterated what madden had said on the sports talk radio. My apologies for, in effect, repeating the rumor. Thought I had another source.

I think it's a bit more than a rumor at this point. There is supposed to be an article coming out tomorrow on this subject. But I agree no need to speculate on details until we see it. Madden is the guy that wrote the April article and was vilified for it, so take that for what it's worth.

On another note, the BOT had to fire JoePa. He wouldn't retire, and the university is facing a triple whammy of lawsuits, pulled sponsorships and decreased donations. The alleged cover up is going to hurt Penn State as an institution, not just the athletic department. If the grand jury report is accurate, this is a little mini-catholic priest situation that Penn State has created. Instead of investigating/turning in its own it covered up and made poor attempts at trying to prevent future occurrences (e.g. moving priest to another parish = not letting Sandusky bring kids to the Ath Dept anymore). As far as telling him "in person." That was probably impossible considering the mob outside JoePa's house.

Interesting theory on Mcqueary as a whistleblower and the need to avoid a retaliation suit. He did what he was supposed to do, technically, under the law. That's an interesting predicament. But what is statute of limitations on retaliation? Probably won't matter. This whole staff is gone after the season is over.

[davekay1971]

This is an incredibly sad saga, and there are no heroes here. Tragically, the lack of heroes undoubtedly increased the number of child victims.

Why did McQueary not pull the child out of the shower at the moment he saw the crime in action? Why did he not call the police immediately upon witnessing a heinous crime in action? When he told Paterno, and eventually nothing came of that action, why did he not pursue the matter either with the AD or, more appropriately, the police?

As for Paterno, recognizing a long and honorable career, I still believe he absolutely should have been fired, immediately, for being informed of a crime being committed by his associate on a child, and not aggressively pursuing the matter, not only through the AD, but with the law.

I can't help but put myself in the shoes of the father of one of the children that Sandusky assaulted - either that poor child in the shower, or any of the children attacked by Sandusky afterwards. I would have no sympathy at all, and tremendous anger, at anyone who knew about the crime witnessed by McQueary, who did not do everything in their power to bring Sandusky to justice for that crime, and prevent the crimes he committed later on.

[peterjswift]

Did Coach K ever make a comment about this whole situation? I would really be interested to hear what he has to say.

[GDT]

I went to the Second Mile website yesterday and was sure I saw Joe Paterno listed on the honorary board of trustees. Today, he's not. I tried the wayback machine and the most recent capture was October 2008, where he was listed. It there another source or way to find out if this was changed yesterday or today? I have been mistaken before in this thread.

I suppose my point still stands. From 2002 up until at least 2008, Paterno explicitly endorsed a charity run by a man found in his program's shower alone at 9:30 on a Friday night with a 10 year-old boy

Those seem to be facts. And this presupposes that:

• Schultz didn't expressly tell him about the 1998 investigation of his then defensive coordinator in 1998
• Paterno didn't hear it from the other people involved
• The 1999 retirement wasn't connected the 1998 incident
• McQueary lied before the grand jury about what he told Paterno
• Schultz didn't mention the 1998 incident in 2002 when they discussed the 2002 incident
• He was told by someone sufficiently in authority that what McQueary reported was incorrect and that it had been investigated completely
• Assumed the ban of Sandusky from campus facilities with young boys was for a reason unconnected with any molestation

Sounds like a 'conspiracy theory' to me.

[greybeard]

The Grand Jury Presentment (which I really need to save to my hard drive, I've worn out googling it!) specifically states (IIRC) that Schultz admits he did not take it to even the University Police in 2002, even though he was over it. It also states he was surprised to learn of the existence a very detailed UP report from the 1998 incidents. I think it was the 1998 incident in which the local DA (who later disappeared) decided not to pursue a criminal case.

I don't draw conclusions from this relationship either - or even an inference, frankly. [edit: maybe I should! But I'm tired] But I would raise the question about the UP and how they relate to municipal police. At Duke and other private universities, I'm not sure the campus safety officers really have any jurisdiction over criminal matters (particularly violent criminal matters). I could be wrong, but I suspect they're really there to enforce university policy and civil matters - like speeding, parking, noise violations, etc. But at a state school, I don't know if there would be such a distinction as that which I conjecture exists at a private school. Anyway, food for thought.

Iam aware of at least one university, a very prominent one, whose campis police are regarded as members of the local police force and handle serious criminal matters, i.e., repeat burgleries that resulted, in one instance, of students chasing after the burglers. Had they caught them, who gets hurt and how much, who knows. The campus police caught one of the burglers, and, with the knowledge of a VP of the university with authority over the police's knowledge, practically let the young man who had been caught walk--a citation for disorderly and return of a single item stolen in that single instance--the stash of other items, the other young men involved, the fences they used, no effort to get the guy to give any of this up. The DA in town was very nice. He explained just how seriously the town took burgleries precisely because of the violence they portend, the invasion of sanctuary. He had direct authority over the campus police and how this was to go down.

In another instance, campus police forced a university disciplinary proceding on a reneged report of a physical assault (pushing) a woman student, beer and fake id issues, and then sought prosecution by the city prosecutor.

Now, in a case like the one at Penn State, one would assume that the campus police would have been the place to begin, especially that evening when the GA walked in as the assault was taking place, but that the nature of the crime alleged would have required that detectives and the DA immediately. I see this as the responsibility of Schultz, the University President, the chief of police on campus, but not Paterno. If Paterno knew that those individuals had not done their jobs, then he should have done it for them. Should Paterno have demanded to know whether Schultz et al had reported this to the authorities, should he have demanded that the GA keep him apprised when the authorities contacted him or should he have expected that the GA would have been expressly instructed by the authorities Not To Discuss the Matter With Him. Experts here please, you know who you are. This was Paterno's program, this was his ex assistant, this happened in his house, this involved a GA under his authority, this involved the question of what Joe knew and when he knew it, this involved a question of how a Big University works such matters.

Let me be clear again, I agree 100 percent with the Trustees' decision. They could not let Paterno coach another game, and the prompt action they took was, as the man said repeatedly last night, demanded by the best interests of the University.

[cspan37421]

there were a lot of famous names on the second mile list of board members and honorary board members. Matt Millen is one of them; he says it's a fundraising role. The honorary list as of right now:

John R. Cappelletti - Retired PSU & NFL Football Player, Heisman Trophy Winner

R. R. M. Carpenter, III - Former Owner, Philadelphia Phillies

James E. Ford - Retired Vice President, Kmart

William A. Gettig - President, Gettig Technologies, Inc.

Jack Ham - Retired NFL Player, Pittsburgh Steelers, Hall of Fame

Franco Harris - Retired NFL Player, Pittsburgh Steelers, Hall of Fame

Lou Holtz - Retired Football Coach, Sportscaster, and Motivational Speaker

Dr. Bryce Jordan - Retired, Penn State University President

Willi Maier - President, Omni Plastics, Inc.

Matt Millen - ESPN Football Analyst

Arnold D. Palmer - President, Arnold Palmer Enterprises

Andy Reid - Head Football Coach, Philadelphia Eagles

Dr. John Reidell - General Surgeon, Past Second Mile Board President

Dominic Toscani - Owner & President, Paris Business Forms

Richard Vermeil - Retired NFL Head Coach, (Kansas City Chiefs, St. Louis Rams, Philadelphia Eagles)

Mark Wahlberg - Actor, Rapper, and Film & TV Producer

Verne Willaman - Retired Chairman and President, Ortho Pharmaceutical Corp.

Quentin Wood - Retired Chairman and CEO, Quaker State Oil Refining Corp.

Richard A. Zimmerman - Retired Chairman of the Board, Hershey Foods

[roywhite]

Thanks for the list of prominent board members and honorary board members of the Second Mile. It illustrates just how prominent Sandusky's charity work became.

I would think the Second Mile is likely to be added to the casualty list here.
Certainly any potential or regular donors would have to take major pause before any further commitments; aren't the Second Mile's financial resources likely to be devoted to legal costs at this point?

[Mike Corey]

Duke Prof. Clotfelter speaking on "sports and ethics" right now: http://www.ustream.tv/dukeuniversity

[A-Tex Devil]

Getting back on the McQueary/retaliation question. McQueary, technically, reported the incident correctly back in 2002 to both the coach and the AD, etc. Setting aside his moral duty to see justice through if he saw what he says he saw, if Penn State fires him now because he "didn't do enough" back in 2002, it just seems "weird" to me from a technical standpoint, and seems retaliatory as well.

I believe McQueary should resign, but the more and more I think about it, I kinda get why PSU hasn't canned him yet. As an employee, he did what he was supposed to, even as a person he did not.

[Duvall]

Interesting theory on Mcqueary as a whistleblower and the need to avoid a retaliation suit. He did what he was supposed to do, technically, under the law. That's an interesting predicament. But what is statute of limitations on retaliation? Probably won't matter. This whole staff is gone after the season is over.

That might be it. Why open yourself up to yet another lawsuit by firing or suspending someone that will be let go in six weeks regardless?