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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Corey View Post
    Coach Paterno is speaking to the media now from his house.

    He has reportedly said, "Say a prayer for all the victims and their families."
    Thank goodness. There isn't much more he can say right now, but that's what should be at the center of any of these arguments above.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by peterjswift View Post
    Just to add to this, this is a rally in support of Joe Paterno. Joe also spoke to the crowd a couple of times from his front lawn.
    This seems just as premature as calls for his dismissal, but I do hope he has a chance to speak publicly soon.

  3. #183

    Millen's Anger

    I thought the Millen video was strange on many levels - all of them having to do with his various emotional reactions. In the first half, he almost seemed more upset that JoePa was being accused of not reacting strongly enough than he was the allegations of an epidemic of child rape with its epicenter being the Lasch building @ PSU. After he broke down, he seemed to give some thought to the kids ... but for a guy on the board of Second Mile, I expected/hoped he'd be more concerned about the kids from the get-go.

    SCMatt33 really captured much of it well with his 5 stages of grief. But to me, the question was: to what was Millen's grief directed? Coach Paterno? PSU? The kids of Second Mile? Can you imagine being Millen - or a number of famous others who have helped fundraise for The Second Mile ... realizing that the organization MIGHT have been founded as a front for getting a pedophile close access to particularly vulnerable kids? It would be hard to countenance that notion, even if you believe the organization probably did a lot of good for a lot of other kids.

    I agree with SCMatt33 also about PSU's alumni being tight and proud; I worked with many of them early in my career (PSU has an actuarial science major I think, so many future actuaries came out of that school). They had a bond closer to that of a smaller school - and I heard another commentator from PSU today say that many mistake the school for one about 1/4-1/3 of its size, in terms of the closeness. So this has got to hurt.

    We still have much to learn ... the latest stuff I've heard seems to indicate that JoePa is claiming that the GA left out virtually all the sordid details of the incident, which seems to contradict the claim in the GJ presentment, which provided IMO sufficient detail to warrant a call to police or child protective services (or at the very least ask the GA for further clarification - "you saw what????" AND then a call to the police/CPS. It will be very interesting to see which way this difference is resolved. JoePa seems to be putting all his chips in the middle on this one.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by weezie View Post
    Thank goodness. There isn't much more he can say right now, but that's what should be at the center of any of these arguments above.
    I'll apologize if I've rushed to judgment, but Paterno could say more. He could say, "you know, I was blinded by my friendship with Sandusky and psychologically crippled by my status as demigod coach and so I declined to get the ball rolling in terms of the investigation. I am currently beset by devils that make me rethink my moral compass, and while we should all say a prayer for these particular victims as well as victims all over the world, I just wanted to apologize specifically for not having pushed forward the investigation so that no one else would get hurt."

    So, yes, he could say more. And, yes, I'm aware he's an old man, but he's the one (one of the ones) who made the mistake, but he's also the one who decided to stay as the coach when he should have retired 5-10 years ago.

    We can liken this to our basketball program, but as someone pointed out 500 posts ago, its hard to imagine Coach K hearing such an allegation from, say, Wojo, and then doing nothing after reporting it to the AD...

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnb View Post
    I'll apologize if I've rushed to judgment, but Paterno could say more. He could say, "you know, I was blinded by my friendship with Sandusky and psychologically crippled by my status as demigod coach and so I declined to get the ball rolling in terms of the investigation. I am currently beset by devils that make me rethink my moral compass, and while we should all say a prayer for these particular victims as well as victims all over the world, I just wanted to apologize specifically for not having pushed forward the investigation so that no one else would get hurt."

    So, yes, he could say more. And, yes, I'm aware he's an old man, but he's the one (one of the ones) who made the mistake, but he's also the one who decided to stay as the coach when he should have retired 5-10 years ago.

    We can liken this to our basketball program, but as someone pointed out 500 posts ago, its hard to imagine Coach K hearing such an allegation from, say, Wojo, and then doing nothing after reporting it to the AD...
    In the same way that the regularly scheduled press conference was canceled by the University, I'm guessing that Coach Paterno, as an employee of the University, has been instructed/advised about speaking at this time.

    This is a very sad and mean situation on many levels. The type of accusation is one of the hot buttons that can bring highly emotional responses from all sides. It's easy to speculate about what should have been done, but none of us knows what we'll do in a high pressure situation until we face one.... even when there's been training and practice in what to do. The follow up and investigation seem to have faltered repeatedly. There's plenty of blame to go around.

    Meanwhile, it's important to allow the legal process run its course. It may be imperfect, but our legal system is one of the critical features of a democracy.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by cspan37421 View Post
    I thought the Millen video was strange on many levels - all of them having to do with his various emotional reactions. In the first half, he almost seemed more upset that JoePa was being accused of not reacting strongly enough than he was the allegations of an epidemic of child rape with its epicenter being the Lasch building @ PSU. After he broke down, he seemed to give some thought to the kids ... but for a guy on the board of Second Mile, I expected/hoped he'd be more concerned about the kids from the get-go.

    SCMatt33 really captured much of it well with his 5 stages of grief. But to me, the question was: to what was Millen's grief directed? Coach Paterno? PSU? The kids of Second Mile? Can you imagine being Millen - or a number of famous others who have helped fundraise for The Second Mile ... realizing that the organization MIGHT have been founded as a front for getting a pedophile close access to particularly vulnerable kids? It would be hard to countenance that notion, even if you believe the organization probably did a lot of good for a lot of other kids.

    I agree with SCMatt33 also about PSU's alumni being tight and proud; I worked with many of them early in my career (PSU has an actuarial science major I think, so many future actuaries came out of that school). They had a bond closer to that of a smaller school - and I heard another commentator from PSU today say that many mistake the school for one about 1/4-1/3 of its size, in terms of the closeness. So this has got to hurt.

    We still have much to learn ... the latest stuff I've heard seems to indicate that JoePa is claiming that the GA left out virtually all the sordid details of the incident, which seems to contradict the claim in the GJ presentment, which provided IMO sufficient detail to warrant a call to police or child protective services (or at the very least ask the GA for further clarification - "you saw what????" AND then a call to the police/CPS. It will be very interesting to see which way this difference is resolved. JoePa seems to be putting all his chips in the middle on this one.
    I don't think that Paterno can really contradict the grand jury presentment. The report, found here for those who haven't seen it (WARNING: CONTENT OF REPORT IS VERY DISTURBING AND CONTAINS FULL DETAILS), describes what Joe Paterno testified to. The report is clear that Paterno testified that the GA told him specifically that "something of a sexual nature" occurred. It is certainly possible that the memory of an 84 year old man is hazy and he could have been mistaken, but it's hard to back away from that kind of statement.

    I wouldn't think too much into Millen not talking about the kids more. Despite what it turned into, the interview was intended to be Millen the sports analyst with a PSU connection. As much as we should all think of the kids first, as a sports reporter, he is paid to talk about that aspect. You could tell pretty quickly that the sports part wasn't where he wanted to be, and I thought Chris McKendry did a good job letting him go where he wanted to.

    (EDIT: The description of the Paterno testimony is on page 7 of the presentment)
    Last edited by SCMatt33; 11-08-2011 at 09:05 PM. Reason: Extra Info

  7. #187
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    Sad, sad story

    This story is heartbreaking. Despite some of the loose ends, it appears that this assistant coach was a pedophile who committed a horrendous sexual assault on Penn State property.

    I have always liked Coach Paterno. It appears that he was one of the good guys for most of his career. Even if he complied with Pennsylvania law, and this is not clear to me, he and the University are going to face some staggering civil lawsuits.

    I don't think there are any happy endings here but I hope that the University and the coach can quickly agree on a face saving solution that puts someone else in charge of the program.

  8. #188
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    University Attorney: I thought the same thing but ...

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlBluRew View Post
    I agree that both Joe Pa and the GA should have been following up with their superiors, particularly with Sandusky still lurking around the facilities with his at-risk kids. That said, I don't find fault with them not calling the police right away. I can imagine both of them really fearing the impact of the situation on the University and feeling obligated to tell their superiors what they knew ... although I hope that if it were me, I'd add, "We need to call the police." At that point, I'd expect the superiors to first call the University attorney. Next call would probably be to Sandusky, because he'd been a central figure in the program for so many years. But then the third call would be to the police. I cannot imagine a University attorney saying, "We'll be OK if we just tell Second Mile."

    Both Joe Pa and the GA certainly felt an obligation to protect the University and the program, but that obligation is fulfilled by getting the University attorney involved right away. In fact, I really think that any sensible person, on seeing that nothing was being done and the Sandusky was still around, would consult their own attorney to find out both what to do next and how to protect themselves from liability for the inaction of their superiors.
    It appears that the University Attorney (at least one of them) was also the legal counsel for Second Mile. There is a lot of back watching apparent here. I just think they did not want this to get outside Penn State. It is the institution protecting itself: the Catholic Church comes to mind here. Sadly, I think there is a very strong impulse to do that.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by cspan37421 View Post
    But to me, the question was: to what was Millen's grief directed? Coach Paterno? PSU? The kids of Second Mile? Can you imagine being Millen - or a number of famous others who have helped fundraise for The Second Mile ... realizing that the organization MIGHT have been founded as a front for getting a pedophile close access to particularly vulnerable kids? It would be hard to countenance that notion, even if you believe the organization probably did a lot of good for a lot of other kids.
    I believe that we saw Millen get angry/distraught at everything.

    He is angry that his mentor and father figure, Joe Paterno, is being dragged through the mud and tarnished like this. Matt clearly loves Joe and thinks the world of him. It makes Matt sad to see Joe tarnished this way and angry at the world for blaming Joe so much...

    But, at the same time, I sense that Matt is angry at Joe for not handling this better. He is probably angry Joe did not take the whole thing to the cops a decade ago and maybe even mad that Joe did not know what was going on with a close, trusted assistant.

    Matt is certainly angry at the public for rushing to judgement on his dear Penn State program. He makes a point of saying they have not broken any NCAA rules...

    But, at the same time, Matt is clearly angry at Penn State for not handling this better, for not following a stricter moral guideline.

    And, finally, Matt is certainly angry at Sandusky-- a man he was very close to; a man he trusted in so many ways; a man he helped to found Second Mile...

    But, at the same time, I bet Matt is angry at himself; angry at his conflicted feeling; angry that he did not see this coming after knowing Sandusky for so long.

    Matt is angry and sad and probably does not know what to do with himself. I feel for him.

    -Jason "that was an enlightening segment to watch" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I believe that we saw Millen get angry/distraught at everything.

    He is angry that his mentor and father figure, Joe Paterno, is being dragged through the mud and tarnished like this. Matt clearly loves Joe and thinks the world of him. It makes Matt sad to see Joe tarnished this way and angry at the world for blaming Joe so much...

    But, at the same time, I sense that Matt is angry at Joe for not handling this better. He is probably angry Joe did not take the whole thing to the cops a decade ago and maybe even mad that Joe did not know what was going on with a close, trusted assistant.

    Matt is certainly angry at the public for rushing to judgement on his dear Penn State program. He makes a point of saying they have not broken any NCAA rules...

    But, at the same time, Matt is clearly angry at Penn State for not handling this better, for not following a stricter moral guideline.

    And, finally, Matt is certainly angry at Sandusky-- a man he was very close to; a man he trusted in so many ways; a man he helped to found Second Mile...

    But, at the same time, I bet Matt is angry at himself; angry at his conflicted feeling; angry that he did not see this coming after knowing Sandusky for so long.

    Matt is angry and sad and probably does not know what to do with himself. I feel for him.

    -Jason "that was an enlightening segment to watch" Evans
    I agree...while watching, I was at first a bit upset with Millen, then it occurred to me that I can't imagine what he's going through. I give him a lot of credit for putting himself out there to speak when he's surely still coming to terms with this. There have got to be hundreds of good people who unknowingly subjected kids to Sandusky thinking that they were doing a great thing thing (guidance counselors, youth workers, social workers, therapists, etc.) only to now discover that they were delivering kids whom they loved and wanted to help into the hands of a perverted psychopath. I think I read that Sandusky had a degree in family therapy, as well...it's just horrifying.

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by fan345678 View Post
    There have got to be hundreds of good people who unknowingly subjected kids to Sandusky thinking that they were doing a great thing thing (guidance counselors, youth workers, social workers, therapists, etc.) only to now discover that they were delivering kids whom they loved and wanted to help into the hands of a perverted psychopath. I think I read that Sandusky had a degree in family therapy, as well...it's just horrifying.
    I read that Sandusky and his wife did not have any kids (if the allegations are true, one has to wonder about his ability to be intimate with his spouse) but they adopted 6 children.

    Can you imagine what the adoption officials who placed children with him are thinking today?!?!

    -Jason "anyone know if Sandusky is still married? Has his wife or kids spoken up yet" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I read that Sandusky and his wife did not have any kids (if the allegations are true, one has to wonder about his ability to be intimate with his spouse) but they adopted 6 children.

    Can you imagine what the adoption officials who placed children with him are thinking today?!?!

    -Jason "anyone know if Sandusky is still married? Has his wife or kids spoken up yet" Evans

    Jason,
    I posted this before, but it's worth reposting. My brother football played for Sandusky's son, EJ, at Albright College (and now coaches at West Chester, IIRC). He was asked to resign after some shady business that occurred at Albright the last 2 years he was there. As far as I knew, that was Sandusky's real son. He also has another son, Jon. Again, as far as I knew, they were his offspring (sorry...it's 10pm and a better word choice is escaping me).

    I also read that he had some adopted children, but I do not know how many. If any one else has any info on whether or not EJ and Jon are his real children, I'd appreciate it! I have been under that assumption since my brother played football for EJ.

    Addition - The children and wife all have Facebook pages, but of course nothing has been posted there. I can't even begin to imagine what they feel...or if they knew what went on all these years.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by johnb View Post
    I'll apologize if I've rushed to judgment, but Paterno could say more. He could say, "you know, I was blinded by my friendship with Sandusky and psychologically crippled by my status as demigod coach and so I declined to get the ball rolling in terms of the investigation. I am currently beset by devils that make me rethink my moral compass, and while we should all say a prayer for these particular victims as well as victims all over the world, I just wanted to apologize specifically for not having pushed forward the investigation so that no one else would get hurt."

    So, yes, he could say more. And, yes, I'm aware he's an old man, but he's the one (one of the ones) who made the mistake, but he's also the one who decided to stay as the coach when he should have retired 5-10 years ago.

    We can liken this to our basketball program, but as someone pointed out 500 posts ago, its hard to imagine Coach K hearing such an allegation from, say, Wojo, and then doing nothing after reporting it to the AD...
    I'd say with regards to the first paragraph, there is no question of "if" you rushed to judgement, for you have created quite an interesting story based on no factual evidence.

  14. #194
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    So, I have held off on posting on the subject to let the anger subside and insure I did not say something inappropriate. As a father of 2 kids (14 & 6), a life-long athlete who developed great relationships with some very fine men who coached and mentored me along the way, a person who fully believes sports is a powerful tool to teach kids life lessons, and finally as a person who believes we all have a responsibility to protect the children around us, this ordeal has just sickened me to my core.

    The one thing that has just screamed out for an answer since the very first article I read on this case is this: Why oh why did the GA not intervene immediately when he happened upon Sandusky molesting the 10 year old in the shower? How could he not immediately run in there, stop the activity, grab the child and get him to safety, and then immediately dial 911 and get the police there to arrest Sandusky? If that is your child in that shower, do you want the GA to immediately stop it and get your child out of there, or do you want him to slip out the back and report it to the head coach the next day? The only thing that was important at that point in time was saving that child and getting him to safety. I don't care who the perp was and what the relationship was between the perp and the GA. To me, there is no rational choice other than to immediately intervene.

    I am hugely disappointed with Paterno, and the others the incident was reported to. I believe in due process, but each of these men have some tough questions to answer. If the allegations are true, there are serious consequences for all to face. At the end of the day though, I just cannot get past the GA not intervening that day and saving that child. That would haunt me forever.

    At what point did any of these folks put the welfare of the children front and center with their decision making?

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    The one thing that has just screamed out for an answer since the very first article I read on this case is this: Why oh why did the GA not intervene immediately when he happened upon Sandusky molesting the 10 year old in the shower? How could he not immediately run in there, stop the activity, grab the child and get him to safety, and then immediately dial 911 and get the police there to arrest Sandusky? If that is your child in that shower, do you want the GA to immediately stop it and get your child out of there, or do you want him to slip out the back and report it to the head coach the next day? The only thing that was important at that point in time was saving that child and getting him to safety. I don't care who the perp was and what the relationship was between the perp and the GA. To me, there is no rational choice other than to immediately intervene.
    I think the first thing to mention is that from the GA's prospective, there is nothing rational about the situation, and having a rational response is pretty tough. We don't know how long he witnessed anything. Was it 5 seconds, 30 seconds, a few minutes. It's plausible that he was able to comprehend what happened, but by the time he got over the shock, it was done. My second thought is that even if he did get over it quickly, there is still fear about who it is. This guy, even though he was retired, still had major clout, and probably had significant influence compared to a GA. It's not irrational to have fears about your job if you say something and they take his word for it. In those seconds and minutes, the myriad of things that can run through your mind and paralyze you is mind boggling to say the least.

    The grand jury presentment says that the first thing he did after leaving the locker room was call his father. Honestly, that's probably what I would have done too. My first instinct is to call someone who I absolutely trust, and is not part of my workplace to ask for advice. He could have a tendency to doubt himself and not even be sure if what he saw was real. In any case, he would want some advice before doing something he couldn't take back. His father told him to go to Paterno, who then relayed it to the AD. The GA later met with the AD who told him that Sandusky's locker room keys were taken away and it was reported to the director of the second mile. It's really only at this point where the GA lapsed in judgement. Before this, he had the confidence that it was moving up the ladder and that the police would presumably be brought in, and it would be done by someone in a more authoritative position. However, when he was told that Sandusky merely lost his locker room privileges, that's when he needed to question why the police weren't called and do it himself if necessary.

    It's all well and good to talk about what the right thing to do at that moment was, but it's really easy to get paralyzed by the moment when something that outrageous happens before your eyes. Once he had time to think and saw that his superiors were doing nothing, he really needed to act further, and that's where he erred. While on the subject, that is also the exact same way in which Joe Paterno erred. When it comes to heinous crimes like this, there is no rational, and trying to put people's responses into rational terms is impossible.

  16. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCMatt33 View Post
    I think the first thing to mention is that from the GA's prospective, there is nothing rational about the situation, and having a rational response is pretty tough. We don't know how long he witnessed anything. Was it 5 seconds, 30 seconds, a few minutes. It's plausible that he was able to comprehend what happened, but by the time he got over the shock, it was done. My second thought is that even if he did get over it quickly, there is still fear about who it is. This guy, even though he was retired, still had major clout, and probably had significant influence compared to a GA. It's not irrational to have fears about your job if you say something and they take his word for it. In those seconds and minutes, the myriad of things that can run through your mind and paralyze you is mind boggling to say the least.

    The grand jury presentment says that the first thing he did after leaving the locker room was call his father. Honestly, that's probably what I would have done too. My first instinct is to call someone who I absolutely trust, and is not part of my workplace to ask for advice. He could have a tendency to doubt himself and not even be sure if what he saw was real. In any case, he would want some advice before doing something he couldn't take back. His father told him to go to Paterno, who then relayed it to the AD. The GA later met with the AD who told him that Sandusky's locker room keys were taken away and it was reported to the director of the second mile. It's really only at this point where the GA lapsed in judgement. Before this, he had the confidence that it was moving up the ladder and that the police would presumably be brought in, and it would be done by someone in a more authoritative position. However, when he was told that Sandusky merely lost his locker room privileges, that's when he needed to question why the police weren't called and do it himself if necessary.

    It's all well and good to talk about what the right thing to do at that moment was, but it's really easy to get paralyzed by the moment when something that outrageous happens before your eyes. Once he had time to think and saw that his superiors were doing nothing, he really needed to act further, and that's where he erred. While on the subject, that is also the exact same way in which Joe Paterno erred. When it comes to heinous crimes like this, there is no rational, and trying to put people's responses into rational terms is impossible.
    Thanks for the reply Matt. The part I bolded makes sense and I did consider that. I still lean strongly on intervening right then if you are sure of what you are witnessing. My impression from the GA's account is that he was sure of what he saw. I am trying to give the GA the benefit of the doubt, but the thought of the kid left alone with the perp just keeps bringing me back to "stop it and save the kid". Maybe I am not being entirely fair to the GA but I just cannot reconcile it.

    This is just a tough tough deal...

  17. #197
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    Hey, is this a possibility?

    Is it clear that paterno did not drop the dime on his boy at the start?

    I am not following everything that the prosecutors have been saying--heads on dc sports radio made a big deal that prosecutor referred to him as "mr." instead of "coach," but i see nothing of import in that.

    If paterno did go to the authorities, would he feel the need to validate his integrity at this point, or would he just let events play way out? Authorities might not have wanted him to disclose to anyone in the administration that he had gone to the authorities, to even be explicit with them about what he had heard. Grand jury reports do not always reflect the details of a witness' testimony. In this case, the general wording might be purposeful. If this does not go to trial, we might never know. I don't know that paterno will feel the need to justify his actions to anyone.

  18. #198
    I read about 4 pages, when I thought why is all the focus on Paterno? Just because he's a big football coach. Just to make the story even bigger? To make yourself feel morally superior to a famous coach (semi-jk). In the big picture, the authorities are going after the guys they should be going after, Sandusky and the 2 school officials. If you have so much self righteousness in you, sure go after the coach too.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by JamminJoe View Post
    I read about 4 pages, when I thought why is all the focus on Paterno? Just because he's a big football coach. Just to make the story even bigger? To make yourself feel morally superior to a famous coach (semi-jk). In the big picture, the authorities are going after the guys they should be going after, Sandusky and the 2 school officials. If you have so much self righteousness in you, sure go after the coach too.
    Fantastic quote. Living in State College, interacting with co-workers/students, reading the newspapers and seeing the protests, it's insane how much the focus of this has been on Paterno rather than the guy that stands accused of 40 counts of child abuse.

  20. #200
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    What's your take on the PSU students "rioting" tonight

    --I think many of them are missing the point here. I understand the love for Paterno and it is nice to see that they care deeply about their school... but it all seems like the wrong thing to do. Maybe that's just me though. Hard to make sense of any of this to be honest...

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