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  1. #541
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    The bigger problem for Joe Paterno is a long string of incidents and a clearcut pattern of behavior that indicated Sandusky had a problem with young men and boys (gosh, it is painful even to write that sentence). Costa this AM said he was surprised how much Sandusky said during his interview this week and, while his admitted behavior was not criminal, it was indeed "creepy." I tend to believe that Paterno knew everything that happened relative to Penn State football (much as K knows everything that happens at Duke). Let me restate that: "Joe Pa knew EVERYTHING related to Penn State football." There was a criminal investigation against Sandusky in 1998 for incidents that happened in Penn State athletic facilities. Does anyone really believe that Paterno did not know about this? Sandusky, by his own words, has said that he was told that year that he would not be head coach at Penn State. Then he retired the following year and never coached again, despite his immense reputation as a coach and recruiter. Does anyone really believe these events and non-events were unrelated to the criminal investigation and his "creepy" behavior? Meanwhile, Sandusky still had status at Penn State, was allowed to use facilities, and was able to bring young boys into the athletic facilities. Joe Pa could have stopped all of his Penn State access at any time and did not.

    sagegrouse
    It's not at all clear that Sandusky's behavior was recognized by those he worked with going back into the 1990's. I could not put my hands on a link, but I have seen references that Sara Ganim, the Hsbg Patriot-News reporter, who has done the original and best reporting on this scandal, has indicated that Paterno told the grand jury he was not aware of charges against Sandusky in 1998. The Second Mile Foundation had a long list of very prominent people who inter-acted with Sandusky and attached their names to his charity, which seems unlikely if there was some general buzz about his creepy behavior. Sandusky was married with six children; there have been no public utterances from them about aberrant behavior by Sandusky.

    For what it's worth, the concept of Paterno knowing everything that goes on or has gone on with any relevance to the football program is contrary to the gripes of many Penn State football fans who have said going back to at least 2000 that Paterno had lost his touch, was not as sharp or energetic as he had been, and should have retired from the job much earlier.

    Again, Paterno did testify under oath to the grand jury, and was found to be credible. At some point, we should learn more about just what he said.

    He's obviously been the face of Penn State football and his reputation is tarnished by this scandal and his abrupt departure. But how much blame should really go toward him?

  2. #542
    I believe that a decision was made to protect Penn State first when the pedofile was caught raping the boy in the shower and I believe everyone from the President of Penn State down to Paterno was in on the coverup. In the end, it's all about money and nothing else.

  3. #543
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    Well if he denies that, then nobody is going to believe him about anything, it's already a given that he did take the showers..
    But that's the thing about our legal system-- the defendant is under no obligation to confirm or deny a gosh-darned thing. The Fifth Amendment is a powerful tool, and he should be making full avail of it (under the assumption that he's innocent until proven guilty).

    He's some interesting thoughts on it and some facts I didn't know..

    http://www.courtroomstrategy.com/201...5th-amendment/

  4. #544
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by turnandburn55 View Post
    But that's the thing about our legal system-- the defendant is under no obligation to confirm or deny a gosh-darned thing. The Fifth Amendment is a powerful tool, and he should be making full avail of it (under the assumption that he's innocent until proven guilty).

    He's some interesting thoughts on it and some facts I didn't know..

    http://www.courtroomstrategy.com/201...5th-amendment/
    Sandusky's lawyer, ... Joe Amendola got his 16 year old client pregnant. ... 16 is the age of consent in Pennsylvania
    Maybe his lawyer understands the beast within.

    This whole thing has become so macabre. A lawyer having sex with his client his despicable - because of the nature of the relationship and the trust the client is encouraged to place in the lawyer. That abuse was multiplied by the adult/child dynamic. Beyond creepy.

    But still, why is Sandusky's lawyer's history an issue? Isn't it more relevant that the complaining witness "Victim 1" has a lawyer and his mother is giving interviews? What is the statute of limitations for a civil action? "Victim 1" alleged the contact ended in spring of 2008. Will they have to file suit before the criminal trial, giving the testimony a pecuniary taint?

  5. #545
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    Maybe his lawyer understands the beast within.

    This whole thing has become so macabre. A lawyer having sex with his client his despicable - because of the nature of the relationship and the trust the client is encouraged to place in the lawyer. That abuse was multiplied by the adult/child dynamic. Beyond creepy.

    But still, why is Sandusky's lawyer's history an issue? Isn't it more relevant that the complaining witness "Victim 1" has a lawyer and his mother is giving interviews? What is the statute of limitations for a civil action? "Victim 1" alleged the contact ended in spring of 2008. Will they have to file suit before the criminal trial, giving the testimony a pecuniary taint?
    Sex with a client would get you disbarred in most states, in and of itself.

    The rest, if true, is truly nauseating.
    "Enjoy every sandwich" -- Warren Zevon

  6. #546

    Syracuse?

    For those that haven't seen the story, now, in addition to the allegations at The Citadel, a potential victim is now alleging that a Syracuse Assistant BBall coach molested him. http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/...ting-boy-1980s

    Ff anything positive comes out of the PSU situation I wonder if it will be victims all around the country feeling compelled to come forward.

  7. #547
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC

    USA Gymnastics

    Another ugly situation and reports of sexual abuse, this time from gymnastics.

    Former U.S. Olympic Gymnastics Coach Banned After Sex Abuse Allegations


    In a week already marred with a mounting sexual abuse scandal at Penn State, a former U.S. Olympic gymnastics coach has had his coaching privileges permanently revoked and has been kicked out of the sport's Hall of Fame following an investigation into sexual abuse allegations.

    Don Peters, 62, who led the 1984 U.S. Olympic women's gymnastics team with all-around champion Mary Lou Retton and coached many gymnasts to medal podiums over several of decades, has been listed as "permanently ineligible" for membership by USA Gymnastics, the nation's governing body of the sport. The action means he can no longer work or volunteer at more than 2,000 member clubs across the country.

  8. #548
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Nashville
    Well, if there's one positive to come out of all of this, maybe it's that a bunch of child molesters across the country get put behind bars. Seems like the PSU situation has given more people courage to come forward in their respective situations.

  9. #549
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Penn State: Danger in the unknown

    And with that, it is official: Public ignorance has become the currency of the Sandusky scandal. Not willful ignorance, although surely there have been ample amounts of that, but a more ordinary, everyday, lack-of-basic-information, we-just-don't-have-it-yet type of ignorance. It is terrifyingly obvious that many people are operating off shards of factoids and little else, and drawing broad conclusions based upon those shards, and generally not knowing very much with absolute certainty, because the case so far doesn't allow for that.
    The scandal involving Jerry Sandusky and Penn State might not travel the same path as the Duke story did. It is not the same story. It certainly might not be subject to a legal reversal on the scale of the Duke case.

    What the stories share, though, is a strikingly similar sort of venal public response, a certain "they're all guilty as sin" quality that permeates so much of the national conversation. If nothing else, recent history suggests that at least a modicum of restraint today might prove wise later on. Here's hoping it doesn't get lost in all the shouting.

  10. #550
    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post

    I followed links from that article to this one about Mike McQueary.


    There's some statements from a former FBI employee who worked specifically with child abuse. Here's a few choice ones:

    Turner said most adults have never even seen a photo of a man having sexual relations with a young boy, much less witnessed it. Further complicating things, Turner said, was the fact that Sandusky was seen as a role model in the community and someone McQueary had known nearly his entire life.

    "You're trying to comprehend something your brain can't handle," Turner said. "You can't rationalize it. Compute it. Handle it. Most people turn around and walk away. And then they try to figure out, 'Oh my God. What the hell did I just see?' The people who say they would go in there and break it up? They're wrong. Nine times out of 10, that's just not how the human brain works."
    This seems a lot like what was said, way upthread (quoting in its entirety, because I think it is worth reading):

    Quote Originally Posted by SCMatt33 View Post
    I think the first thing to mention is that from the GA's prospective, there is nothing rational about the situation, and having a rational response is pretty tough. We don't know how long he witnessed anything. Was it 5 seconds, 30 seconds, a few minutes. It's plausible that he was able to comprehend what happened, but by the time he got over the shock, it was done. My second thought is that even if he did get over it quickly, there is still fear about who it is. This guy, even though he was retired, still had major clout, and probably had significant influence compared to a GA. It's not irrational to have fears about your job if you say something and they take his word for it. In those seconds and minutes, the myriad of things that can run through your mind and paralyze you is mind boggling to say the least.

    The grand jury presentment says that the first thing he did after leaving the locker room was call his father. Honestly, that's probably what I would have done too. My first instinct is to call someone who I absolutely trust, and is not part of my workplace to ask for advice. He could have a tendency to doubt himself and not even be sure if what he saw was real. In any case, he would want some advice before doing something he couldn't take back. His father told him to go to Paterno, who then relayed it to the AD. The GA later met with the AD who told him that Sandusky's locker room keys were taken away and it was reported to the director of the second mile. It's really only at this point where the GA lapsed in judgement. Before this, he had the confidence that it was moving up the ladder and that the police would presumably be brought in, and it would be done by someone in a more authoritative position. However, when he was told that Sandusky merely lost his locker room privileges, that's when he needed to question why the police weren't called and do it himself if necessary.

    It's all well and good to talk about what the right thing to do at that moment was, but it's really easy to get paralyzed by the moment when something that outrageous happens before your eyes. Once he had time to think and saw that his superiors were doing nothing, he really needed to act further, and that's where he erred. While on the subject, that is also the exact same way in which Joe Paterno erred. When it comes to heinous crimes like this, there is no rational, and trying to put people's responses into rational terms is impossible.
    Anyhow - I thought it was interesting to see an article about McQueary that included the thoughts of an expert on the subject matter, and even more interesting to see that it seemed to match SCMatt33's much earlier post. I hope Mike & Mike read this article...McQueary was put through a blender on their show.

  11. #551
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC

    NCAA

    The NCAA has now gotten involved officially, and will investigate "institutional control" issues at Penn State relating to the Sandusky scandal.

    Letter of Inquiry to Penn State President Erickson

  12. #552
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC

    Paterno sick

    More bad news.

    Joe Paterno has lung cancer.

  13. #553
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Prosecutors change timeline in Sandusky case, saying McQueary incident happened in 2001, not 2002

    Prosecutors no longer thinking that Mike McQueary saw Jerry Sandusky sexually assaulting a boy in a Penn State locker room the night before spring break in 2002.

    Instead, new evidence shows what McQueary saw happened instead in February 2001, the attorney general's office said in court paperwork filed today.

    In the motion, the prosecutor alludes that the change does not affect the allegations of a crime.
    While allegations against Sandusky will proceed, this timeline may bring into play the statute of limitations for allegations against Penn State officials Curley and Schultz.
    Also seems to call into question the credibility of McQueary.

  14. #554
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Louisville, Ky
    Oh, so this is great news! We can maybe sweep this whole thing under the carpet on a timeline technicality. Awesome.

    Yeah, but not really. Because little boys were raped in the Penn Sate locker room. But hey, time expired. Next play.

    Not hardly.

    Not for a minute.

    Not ever.

    Hold them accountable forever, for the full extend of the law, and beyond into social and polite society.

    For Ever.
    Last edited by hurleyfor3; 05-08-2012 at 03:07 PM. Reason: remove ppb

  15. #555
    Quote Originally Posted by KenTankerous View Post
    Oh, so this is great news! We can maybe sweep this whole thing under the carpet on a timeline technicality. Awesome.
    You're clearly not of a mind to deal with any facts that don't fit your pre-conceived notions, but this is a perfect example of why we have statutes of limitation. With the passage of time, physical evidence gets degraded and memories get fuzzy.

    Someone a lot smarter than you or me once said that it's better that a thousand guilty men go free than that one innocent man be wrongly punished.

    If you were accused of a crime, you would want every procedural safeguard that you are so eager to deny to Jerry Sandusky.

  16. #556
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area
    Please, folks, let's not turn this discussion into a policy debate.

    Thanks,

    -jk

  17. #557
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    Please, folks, let's not turn this discussion into a policy debate.

    Thanks,

    -jk
    Or, if I might be allowed to suggest, perhaps it is time to move this thread to the off-topic board.

    As news-worthy and discussion-worthy as this story is, I prefer not to be reminded of these shockingly horrendous accusations every time I drop by for an update on the worlds greatest athletics program on the EK board.

  18. #558
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by GopherBlue View Post
    Or, if I might be allowed to suggest, perhaps it is time to move this thread to the off-topic board.

    As news-worthy and discussion-worthy as this story is, I prefer not to be reminded of these shockingly horrendous accusations every time I drop by for an update on the worlds greatest athletics program on the EK board.
    Well, it's fine if the moderators decide to do that, but this thread hasn't been on the first page for almost 6 months.

  19. #559
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Louisville, Ky
    Guilty.

    Justice sometimes works, still.
    If being a fan were logical, we'd all be Duke fans but some of us were born to a different blue.

  20. #560
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Near Cameron & Wallace Wade Stadium
    Quote Originally Posted by KenTankerous View Post
    Guilty.

    Justice sometimes works, still.
    Guilty on 45 of 48 counts, as to an article I read. Hopefully, the victims can feel that the Justice system did their work, and can move forward from this painful act and abuse againest them as youth. I am sure that Sandusky will spend the rest of his life in jail!

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