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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by mph View Post
    Paterno's moral culpability primarily hinges on whether the GA told Paterno, Curley, and Schultz that he witnessed the rape of a child or whether he told Paterno, et al that he witnessed "inappropriate" touching while wrestling. If its the latter, then your scenario is plausible. But, if the GA reported the rape of a minor, why would Paterno think it's appropriate for the administration to conduct an internal investigation without notifying the police? If you were the head football coach and the allegations involved a long-time coordinator with an office in your building and access to your facilities, wouldn't you specificity ask your superiors if the police were notified? If the adminstration lied and said the police investigated the allegations and found them to be worthless, wouldn't you suspect deceit when you asked the GA whether he was interviewed by the police or when they never came to interview you or any other member of your staff?

    If the GA's story turns out to be true, I have a hard time seeing how Paterno could have been deceived without at least some degree of negligence on his part. I agree that it's inappropriate to judge Paterno until all of the facts are in, but the grand jury explicitly stated that they found the GA's testimony credible, which raises some difficult and necessary questions.
    I don't know where everyone gets the idea that anyone said that an internal investigation only was appropriate. I had said earlier that it was not Paterno's job to run an investigation into what he heard. By that, I mean that Paterno's only official responsibility is to repeat what he heard, and not necessarily to the police since this is still a workplace related issue. I have said it many times, but we can't even begin to speculate as to what Paterno was told, told his superiors, or suspected. The absolute only thing we know is that he apparently repeated what he was told to his superiors, and that he never contacted the police. Many here are speculating about specific possibilities, which I find pointless given how many different possibilities there are.
    Pratt '09
    GO DUKE!

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Paterno has released a statement, as reported by the Harrisburg Patriot News

    "If true, the nature and amount of charges made are very shocking to me and all Penn Staters. While I did what I was supposed to with the one charge brought to my attention, like anyone else involved I can't help but be deeply saddened these matters are alleged to have occurred.

    "Sue and I have devoted our lives to helping young people reach their potential. The fact that someone we thought we knew might have harmed young people to this extent is deeply troubling. If this is true we were all fooled, along with scores of professionals trained in such things, and we grieve for the victims and their families. They are in our prayers.

    "As my grand jury testimony stated, I was informed in 2002 by an assistant coach that he had witnessed an incident in the shower of our locker room facility. It was obvious that the witness was distraught over what he saw, but he at no time related to me the very specific actions contained in the Grand Jury report. Regardless, it was clear that the witness saw something inappropriate involving Mr. Sandusky. As Coach Sandusky was retired from our coaching staff at that time, I referred the matter to university administrators.

    "I understand that people are upset and angry, but let's be fair and let the legal process unfold. In the meantime I would ask all Penn Staters to continue to trust in what that name represents, continue to pursue their lives every day with high ideals and not let these events shake their beliefs nor who they are."




  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by SCMatt33 View Post
    ...I mean that Paterno's only official responsibility is to repeat what he heard, and not necessarily to the police since this is still a workplace related issue...
    i'm definitely not with you here.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tennessee
    if it was a murder would it be a workplace-related issue?

    is violent crime ever just a workplace-related issue, one that need only be run up to the coach and from the coach to the AD?

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Seriously, this isn't that hard folks. Gimme a flippin' break. You hear an old dude is prancing around naked in the shower with a young boy? Do the math. Don't rest until you've exhausted all avenues of locking the creep up. If you've got a shaken up GA sitting in your office who has no reason to make this stuff up, why would your first call not be to the police? No way are JoePa's hands completely clean here.

    This whole thing makes me want to break something. A bunch of disgusting people covering their tracks and doing the bare minimum when there are kids getting abused.

    I hope Sandusky rots in prison. He deserves worse.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by feldspar View Post
    Seriously, this isn't that hard folks. Gimme a flippin' break. You hear an old dude is prancing around naked in the shower with a young boy? Do the math. Don't rest until you've exhausted all avenues of locking the creep up. If you've got a shaken up GA sitting in your office who has no reason to make this stuff up, why would your first call not be to the police? No way are JoePa's hands completely clean here.

    This whole thing makes me want to break something. A bunch of disgusting people covering their tracks and doing the bare minimum when there are kids getting abused.

    I hope Sandusky rots in prison. He deserves worse.
    Similarly, if you hear second hand that some jocks raped an exotic dancer you pursue all means of locking the guys up. It's that simple. Always is.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    [QUOTE=SCMatt33;526401this is still a workplace related issue. [/QUOTE]

    Showing up to work late is a workplace related issue.

    Stealing office supplies is a workplace related issue.

    Old dude getting naked in the shower with young boys isn't a workplace related issue. That's the kind of thing you call the cops for. It's not something you wait around 10 days to see what the AD decides to do about it. It's not something you sit back and say "gee, golly, okay he got his keys taken away from him, that should do the trick" about.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    The New York Times digs in to many of the questions regarding Paterno that have been discussed here.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Corey View Post
    The New York Times digs in to many of the questions regarding Paterno that have been discussed here.
    We know directly that the New York Times was a terrible source of information in their coverage of the false accusations of the Duke lacrosse players.

    I'm also reminded of the discussion of the New York Times in a recent thread about Harvard and Tommy Amaker.
    Olympic Fan noted:
    "I'm glad that sagegrouse reminded us of the deceitful smear job that the New York Times did on Tommy -- and how it's created a lingerinjg impression that he's done something wrong or skirted the rules while at Harvard. It's funny, the NY Times used to be a respected bastion of journalist -- the paper of record. But in recent years it's become just about as shady and unreliable as the Durham Herald-Sun. What the NY Times did to Tommy is very similar to its warped coverage in the Duke Lacrosse Hoax -- and in both cases "the paper of record" has refused to apologize and correct the mistakes it made."

    Maybe there are better sources for sports related questions?

  10. #50
    Let's let all the facts come out...but, Joe's hair should have been on fire. Reporting up the chain of command was appropriate given the circumstances, but will be informative to know what we may never know...did Joe press the AD or ever confront Sandusky man to man.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Ad hominem attacks on the paper of record will not suffice in discrediting a story on a matter that is not being reported by the authors that wrote on the two stories you reference.

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    No link yet, but local Central PA television stations are reporting that Penn State Athletic Director Tim Curley and administrator Gary Schultz are gone as result of a Board of Trustees meeting Sunday.
    Both have been charged with perjury following a grand jury investigation.

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Corey View Post
    Ad hominem attacks on the paper of record will not suffice in discrediting a story on a matter that is not being reported by the authors that wrote on the two stories you reference.
    When the Times refuses to admit mistakes or issue corrections as in the cases noted, it's more than an issue with an individual reporter.
    Suit yourself, but the "paper of record" has damaged it's own credibility.

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Whether or not you are willing to critically read the most respected newspaper in the country is immaterial; Joe Paterno has admitted to being aware of, at the very least, inappropriate behavior in the shower between his longtime defensive coordinator and an adolescent boy; we know further that no one at Penn State bothered to notify the authorities, a few of them in contravention of state law; and we know that Sandusky was hosting Penn State camps--overnight ones--as recently as 2009.

    That is incorrigible.

  15. #55
    Just for general reference, the Pennsylvannia statue on reporting child abuse can be found here.

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    The City of Brotherly Love
    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    We know directly that the New York Times was a terrible source of information in their coverage of the false accusations of the Duke lacrosse players.

    I'm also reminded of the discussion of the New York Times in a recent thread about Harvard and Tommy Amaker.
    Olympic Fan noted:
    "I'm glad that sagegrouse reminded us of the deceitful smear job that the New York Times did on Tommy -- and how it's created a lingerinjg impression that he's done something wrong or skirted the rules while at Harvard. It's funny, the NY Times used to be a respected bastion of journalist -- the paper of record. But in recent years it's become just about as shady and unreliable as the Durham Herald-Sun. What the NY Times did to Tommy is very similar to its warped coverage in the Duke Lacrosse Hoax -- and in both cases "the paper of record" has refused to apologize and correct the mistakes it made."

    Maybe there are better sources for sports related questions?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Corey View Post
    Ad hominem attacks on the paper of record will not suffice in discrediting a story on a matter that is not being reported by the authors that wrote on the two stories you reference.
    I don't think many people consider the NYT the self described paper of record anymore. Circulation has dropped circa 20% since the mid 90's. If any publication fits the description these days it's the WSJ. The learning from the past reporting of controversial, high profile stories is to take in diverse sources of information.

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO

    WSJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by 77devil View Post
    I don't think many people consider the NYT the self described paper of record anymore. Circulation has dropped circa 20% since the mid 90's. If any publication fits the description these days it's the WSJ. The learning from the past reporting of controversial, high profile stories is to take in diverse sources of information.
    Print circulation is only one measure of a paper's strength. NY Times stories are widely published on line and in other print sources.

    The Wall Street Journal is a business and economics rag with -- ahem -- a fairly limited viewpoint on economics, etc. It's coverage on other subjects is sporadic. This is not the same as a daily newspaper with coverage on everything.

    sagegrouse

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Corey View Post
    Ad hominem attacks on the paper of record will not suffice in discrediting a story on a matter that is not being reported by the authors that wrote on the two stories you reference.
    Nothing personal Mike, but I don't think questioning a publication's credibility based on prior examples of shoddy reporting can be considered an ad hominem attack. That would be like saying a security guard's history of falling asleep on the job shouldn't even be mentioned if a robbery takes place on his watch.

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by SMO View Post
    Nothing personal Mike, but I don't think questioning a publication's credibility based on prior examples of shoddy reporting can be considered an ad hominem attack. That would be like saying a security guard's history of falling asleep on the job shouldn't even be mentioned if a robbery takes place on his watch.
    I'm not sure I agree with the analogy, but I concede the point about the ad hominem language. Thanks for keeping me in line.

    Basketball season just needs to start.

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Cambridge, MA
    Paterno admits he didn't call the police, right? That's enough for him to be fired, and if he didn't take any other action that is currently unrevealed to us, I'd like to see prosecutors try and charge him criminally.

    I'm a little surprised by the tone of some of the posts here. I don't see why it matters that Penn State had less than the average number of arrests for a big time college football program. I'd rather have Butch Davis coaching Duke's football team with Jim Tressel as an assistant and Nevin Shapiro as a booster, John Calipari as Duke's basketball coach, and Jim Calhoun as the athletic director all at once before I'd have a guy who didn't report child molestation to the police.

    Again, this all comes with the big "if" that there isn't more information on JoePa's actions.

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