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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    Jacksonville, NC

    Barry Jacobs on Duke Football (Front Page)

    I certainly thought the piece from the front page deserved its own thread, however, mods feel free to move it to the Phase section of Duke Football if you feel it appropriate.

    I think Barry Jacobs brings up some good points about Duke Football and its progress or lack there off under David Cutcliffe. However, I think to look at things from a statistical stand point at this point do little to paint a picture of the improvement. He is right that there is little statistical evidence to point toward improvement but I'm not a fan of comparing statistics. I think statistics are something we can look at down the road when Cutcliffe has made this program a bit more sustainable and I think he will do just that.

    I wrote a piece on my blog last week about how I think Duke Football needs a new measuring stick aside from just counting wins and loses. Now I realize that wins and loses are the ultimate benchmark but at this state the program needs time to build and grow. I've watch lots of Duke football for a while and aside from the Spurrier years all three of them, and the one lightening in a bottle year under Goldsmith, and everything in between and after. Under Cutcliffe is the first time I see the program as whole, the product on the field and around the field making forward progress.

    I'm not super excited about the statistical drop off that this season has brought, especially on the offensive side of the ball but the team as a whole just looks more like a quality team. There is some speed and considering how young the team is they can only get better.

    Perhaps I'm just looking at the team through some seriously tented Duke Blue colored glasses, and I certainly don't mean to insinuate that I know more than Barry Jacobs on the topic, but from my strict fan point of view I'm happy with the progress and will continue to be watching, cheering, and writing about Duke Football. I mean if I could watch the Barry Wilson, Carl Franks and Ted Roof years, I can't wait it out until Cutcliffe does what he came to do.
    http://www.dukesportsblog.com/

    Twitter: @MikeKlineDSB

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Carrboro
    My take on Mr. Jacobs' article is that it's a sign of Duke's progress that he didn't trot out a retread of his annual suggestion that Duke abandon Division I football altogether. I'm more impressed with his "bottom line" assessment than the one he offers a couple of lines below that.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by orrnot View Post
    My take on Mr. Jacobs' article is that it's a sign of Duke's progress that he didn't trot out a retread of his annual suggestion that Duke abandon Division I football altogether. I'm more impressed with his "bottom line" assessment than the one he offers a couple of lines below that.
    I don't remember Barry Jacobs saying that - John Feinstein, yes.
    "This is the best of all possible worlds."
    Dr. Pangloss - Candide

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tennessee
    Quote Originally Posted by mkline09 View Post
    However, I think to look at things from a statistical stand point at this point do little to paint a picture of the improvement. He is right that there is little statistical evidence to point toward improvement but I'm not a fan of comparing statistics. ... I think Duke Football needs a new measuring stick aside from just counting wins and loses.
    If you don't judge a program by wins and losses, nor judge it by statistics (keep in mind, that's a broad category), what is left on which to base an evaluation of progress in a football program? I'm being serious.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Carrboro
    Quote Originally Posted by chrishoke View Post
    I don't remember Barry Jacobs saying that - John Feinstein, yes.
    I was shooting from the hip and don't have firm documentary evidence, but here are some links that give a sense of where he's coming from:

    http://www.indyweek.com/indyweek/tim...nt?oid=1193771
    http://www.indyweek.com/indyweek/coa...nt?oid=1199387
    http://www.wral.com/news/local/blogpost/1769162/
    http://www.wralsportsfan.com/rs/story/2091264/

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by cspan37421 View Post
    If you don't judge a program by wins and losses, nor judge it by statistics (keep in mind, that's a broad category), what is left on which to base an evaluation of progress in a football program? I'm being serious.
    A good measuring stick is to go to the games and judge for yourself. If you (this isn't directed at your cspan) have gone to the games the product on the field has improved. The program as all whole is on a different standard, if you ask me. I am proud to be a Duke Football fan, through thick and thin, and I see a winning season on the horizon.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Jacksonville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke of Nashville View Post
    A good measuring stick is to go to the games and judge for yourself. If you (this isn't directed at your cspan) have gone to the games the product on the field has improved. The program as all whole is on a different standard, if you ask me. I am proud to be a Duke Football fan, through thick and thin, and I see a winning season on the horizon.
    I agree with what you say here. In my originial post I'm not suggesting that wins and loses aren't important. But at this stage to suggest they or some statistics are the end all be all of determining improvement or progress in the program, is being a bit short sited. This program isn't like others being rebuilt. This program has to be rebuilt in every facet. And that takes a lot more time than just about any other sport. Recruiting philosophy, facilities, fan involvement and interest just to name a few things are all being reworked. There is just so much that Cutcliffe is working on and to just measure him or the team based on two things wins/loses and stats is to forget all the other things he has done to make Duke Football attractive to recruits and fans. I do believe the wins will come and I think within two years if Duke is still mired in losing close games and they have all the other tools then you look at stats and wins and loses to evaluate. But for now all I am suggesting not just look at the team, look at the entire program. If you can't see it is clearly better than it was just five years ago then you are missing the big picture. I think that is what Cutcliffe is doing now and we as fans will begin to reap the rewards of that soon enough.
    http://www.dukesportsblog.com/

    Twitter: @MikeKlineDSB

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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by mkline09 View Post
    I agree with what you say here. In my originial post I'm not suggesting that wins and loses aren't important. But at this stage to suggest they or some statistics are the end all be all of determining improvement or progress in the program, is being a bit short sited. This program isn't like others being rebuilt. This program has to be rebuilt in every facet. And that takes a lot more time than just about any other sport. Recruiting philosophy, facilities, fan involvement and interest just to name a few things are all being reworked. There is just so much that Cutcliffe is working on and to just measure him or the team based on two things wins/loses and stats is to forget all the other things he has done to make Duke Football attractive to recruits and fans. I do believe the wins will come and I think within two years if Duke is still mired in losing close games and they have all the other tools then you look at stats and wins and loses to evaluate. But for now all I am suggesting not just look at the team, look at the entire program. If you can't see it is clearly better than it was just five years ago then you are missing the big picture. I think that is what Cutcliffe is doing now and we as fans will begin to reap the rewards of that soon enough.
    I buy in 100% on what you are saying here. And all I am doing is speaking on a fans perspective as well. It's really an honor to hear how Coach speaks about the team and the program as a whole. We have a great Coach who is exactly what we needed to lead this overhaul of the football program. Cut could go down as one of the most important figures in Duke Football history but he has to start winning. All these improvements (and I am very appreciative and impressed with all of them) might prove to be unsuccessful and I have no clue how long the administration will wait for the ROI.

    Every week I read the other teams comments about Duke and it's usually the same thing about how “this isn't the same Duke team. Or you can't overlook this Duke team anymore. Not an easy win.” For a while there I could only expect to beat a quality ACC opponent only if we snuck up on someone. Now, when Duke does get that signature ACC win I know it will be a legitimate one. I guess what I am trying to say here is that it's not going to get any easier this-on-out.

    If we do not start (please note that I think we will) winning more games what will Cut's or the administration's plan then be? If we have all these other areas that are ideal for success in college football what would the next step be?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Jacksonville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke of Nashville View Post
    I buy in 100% on what you are saying here. And all I am doing is speaking on a fans perspective as well. It's really an honor to hear how Coach speaks about the team and the program as a whole. We have a great Coach who is exactly what we needed to lead this overhaul of the football program. Cut could go down as one of the most important figures in Duke Football history but he has to start winning. All these improvements (and I am very appreciative and impressed with all of them) might prove to be unsuccessful and I have no clue how long the administration will wait for the ROI.

    Every week I read the other teams comments about Duke and it's usually the same thing about how “this isn't the same Duke team. Or you can't overlook this Duke team anymore. Not an easy win.” For a while there I could only expect to beat a quality ACC opponent only if we snuck up on someone. Now, when Duke does get that signature ACC win I know it will be a legitimate one. I guess what I am trying to say here is that it's not going to get any easier this-on-out.

    If we do not start (please note that I think we will) winning more games what will Cut's or the administration's plan then be? If we have all these other areas that are ideal for success in college football what would the next step be?
    Well I've got to think if all things are in place and the team still isn't winning then you have those tough conversation. I see Cut being the first to admit if he isn't getting the job done in the Win and Loss column and everything else is up to par.

    Roof wanted more time but wasn't even close to getting Duke to where Cut has them now. I'd like to see at least two more years before I'd make a move if I'm Kevin White. In an extreme case where they do nothing next year (ie win 0-3 games) then perhaps you rush that talk. But I'm optimistic and I'll think Cut will get it done.
    http://www.dukesportsblog.com/

    Twitter: @MikeKlineDSB

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