FB: Miami 49, Duke 14

[Newton_14]

You just have to look at the progress at Northwestern, Vandy, UVa, Stanford since Cutcliffe was hired, Cutcliffe's weak nonsensical recruiting efforts, Cut's predictable playcalling, the lack of progress in the Duke Program (notwithstanding his having been given lower academic thesholds in recruiting than Northwestern and Stanford), to get close to the conclusion that Cutcliffe is not the right man to bring Duke Football back.

As has been noted, oh, about 100 times, the programs at Northwestern, Vandy, UVA, and Stanford were in no where near as bad of shape as the Duke program was 4 years ago when Cutcliffe arrived. It's not even close and I would even call it an apples to oranges comparison. Much worse. The progress at those schools is irrelevant to the progress at Duke. If you thought it would only take 4 years to dig Duke Football out of that quagmire you were sadly mistaken.

Today was a bad day. The team laid an egg against an extremely athletic team on the road. With our current level of talent we are always vulnerable to a blowout if we are not at out best, and college players unfortunately are never at their best for 12 straight weeks. They stumble and have days where they don't execute. Look no further than the UNC/NC State game. On paper UNC is by far the better team yet they were shutout by a mediocre NC State team that Cincy and FSU ran out of the stadium and scored on at will.

Firing Cutcliffe now would be a huge mistake with drastic consequences.

[gep]

It may be difficult to sort out all the psychological factors, but it is very clear that Miami is playing hard, fast football.... much like State did against Carolina in the 12:30P game.

I was at the VT game last week; I saw how well our defense played. That wasn't a fluke. Miami is playing at a very high level in this game and the margin of error we can handle continues to be very small.

In an attempt to keep this glass half-full... I think that Miami so dominated the game is a credit to the players and coaching staff. Coming in off of a loss, Miami already was focused. But, if they simply over-look Duke (as in previous years), maybe it's a game... but they did not, they were extremely focused, and it wasn't a game. Problem with these kinds of games is that it's Duke that ends up looking very bad, more-so than the opponent playing very well. Gotta give credit to Miami, but total trashing of Duke may not be totally warranted.

[uh_no]

In an attempt to keep this glass half-full... I think that Miami so dominated the game is a credit to the players and coaching staff. Coming in off of a loss, Miami already was focused. But, if they simply over-look Duke (as in previous years), maybe it's a game... but they did not, they were extremely focused, and it wasn't a game. Problem with these kinds of games is that it's Duke that ends up looking very bad, more-so than the opponent playing very well. Gotta still give credit to Miami, but total trashing of Duke may not be totally warranted.

what irks me is we come off a great well played game, and lay an egg so bad. I was so pumped after last week...and then we get a game like this. as much as we NEED good games like last week, we NEED to not have games like this weeks.

[Newton_14]

what irks me is we come off a great well played game, and lay an egg so bad. I was so pumped after last week...and then we get a game like this. as much as we NEED good games like last week, we NEED to not have games like this weeks.

That part is disappointing for sure. I thought we played well in the 2nd half of the FSU game, 2nd half of the Wake game, and all of the Vatech game. So 3 weeks in a row of at least one half of good play, and 2 of those games against very strong competition. I was worried about today because of all the athlete's Miami and how bad our offense is right now.

The defense up until today had done their best to keep us in games, but I suppose the weight of that wore them down. We have to fix our offensive issues and the slow starts. We are killing our defense by constantly putting them in a hole early and often.

[Bob Green]

In an attempt to keep this glass half-full...

Virginia earned bowl eligibility today. Wake Forest is up 17 to 10 on Notre Dame and will be bowl eligible if they hold on and win. Duke is looking at another season with a losing record. I am a glass Half-full guy, but tonight my glass is looking half empty.

[duke09hms]

Anyone else still think Renfree has a shot at the NFL? All these swing passes can't be entirely the fault of the OC. I strongly doubt they are the primary receiving option on each play, so some of it surely lies on Sean's decision-making and his being over-willing to checkdown.

I miss Thad Lewis.

[uh_no]

That part is disappointing for sure. I thought we played well in the 2nd half of the FSU game, 2nd half of the Wake game, and all of the Vatech game. So 3 weeks in a row of at least one half of good play, and 2 of those games against very strong competition. I was worried about today because of all the athlete's Miami and how bad our offense is right now.

The defense up until today had done their best to keep us in games, but I suppose the weight of that wore them down. We have to fix our offensive issues and the slow starts. We are killing our defense by constantly putting them in a hole early and often.

I honestly think there needs to be an OC change. It's just not working. We have a very good QB, what I think should be one of the best WR corps in the league, a couple of pretty good running backs, and a very promising season...and we turn out squat week in and week out. We're averaging a shade over 17 points in ACC games, and that's just flat out terrible for an offense that has so many pieces as we have and who has shown in the past the ability to put up points. I'm sure the coaches are doing what they think is right, and I respect that to an extent, but its not working...or i should say, it's working for 17.25 points a game. With our defense, that just isn't going to get the job done (not to rip on the defense, but they can only put up so much fight...and even 17.25 would have won it against vt). I just can't fathom how horrible the offense would be if we didn't have a decent quarterback and very good wide receivers. What worries me about coach cutliffe isn't his dedication or ability to get the job done, but his loyalty to his assistants. I understand wanting to be loyal. But you can't be blind to the fact that that trust could be hurting the team.

So, yes, I am calling for the OC's head (to put it harshly without really meaning to). I'm sure he's a great guy, and he's doing what he thinks is best for duke to win, but its not working, and we haven't seen adaptability or flexibility which might effect a different outcome. Do I think cut is the right guy to be here? Yes, so long as he realizes that sometime if an offense which is effectively a year older goes regresses from year to year, you might have to cut the "loyalty" and make the changes which need to be made.

I've tried to say this in the best way possible, and hope this isn't construed as "bailing" in any way, but its the way I feel.

[Greg_Newton]

Do I think cut is the right guy to be here? Yes, so long as he realizes that sometime if an offense which is effectively a year older goes regresses from year to year, you might have to cut the "loyalty" and make the changes which need to be made.

I think this is a pretty fair assessment of the situation. We should be supportive and not run Cut out of town just because he didn't resurrect a dead program overnight, but that doesn't mean he should have a carte blanche if we're not making progress.

I think when you take the last two games in a vacuum, they're pretty in line with expectations. We competed with a top 15 team last week and probably should have won, then got blown out today by a team that had the top recruiting class in 2008 and top 15 classes the following two years. We can only expect our guys to overachieve so often against that kind of talent.

A few more winning plays against Richmond, Wake and VT, and the glass looks a lot different. I do think the glass would also look a lot better with a different OC, though...

[uh_no]

I think when you take the last two games in a vacuum, they're pretty in line with expectations. We competed with a top 15 team last week and probably should have won, then got blown out today by a team that had the top recruiting class in 2008 and top 15 classes the following two years. We can only expect our guys to overachieve so often against that kind of talent.

I just wish we could build off these things. Maybe we do, and you just don't see it on the field. Maybe if we played someone else this week...idk, uva, wake...we could have had a great win. I think the schedule this year hurt us somewhat. It just hurts so much to come off last week thinking so positively and then end up so down after this week (and don't get me wrong, Im sure the team feels the same way).

HOw about I make a deal with the devil...we can get blown out each of the next 2 games if we beat carolina and win the bell...that would be a season saved for me

[Jarhead]

Duke's football team has a coach who can recruit, teach, and lead a disparate group of student athletes as he tries to resuscitate this program. It is a monumentally difficult task that nobody has been able to do for several decades. I am inclined to allow Coach Cutcliffe the slack he needs, and I am willing to give him a number of years to accomplish the task. Ask me later how many. There will be progress. There has been progress, and we all know it. Sometimes, though, I get hung up on the play calling meme in which the offensive coaching staff, or the head coach, sends in the drive killer package I think of as the Connette/Boone never works package. I know. I have never coached football, and I haven't put on the pads since 1945, but one thing I know. If the opponents know what plays will be run, those plays won't work, so what am I missing here? Why does this happen in every game we play? Is there some strategy that I don't understand? I can wait. I've been waiting a long time.

[GDavidson]

Duke's football team has a coach who can recruit, teach, and lead a disparate group of student athletes as he tries to resuscitate this program. It is a monumentally difficult task that nobody has been able to do for several decades. I am inclined to allow Coach Cutcliffe the slack he needs, and I am willing to give him a number of years to accomplish the task. Ask me later how many. There will be progress. There has been progress, and we all know it. Sometimes, though, I get hung up on the play calling meme in which the offensive coaching staff, or the head coach, sends in the drive killer package I think of as the Connette/Boone never works package. I know. I have never coached football, and I haven't put on the pads since 1945, but one thing I know. If the opponents know what plays will be run, those plays won't work, so what am I missing here? Why does this happen in every game we play? Is there some strategy that I don't understand? I can wait. I've been waiting a long time.

Lining up your QB in a shotgun formation on 4th and inches is unacceptable. I have been a Duke fan for 45 years so I have given coaches the benefit of the doubt at Duke. I just think in your 4th year at Duke we should be more competitive.

[Bob Green]

Lining up your QB in a shotgun formation on 4th and inches is unacceptable. I have been a Duke fan for 45 years so I have given coaches the benefit of the doubt at Duke. I just think in your 4th year at Duke we should be more competitive.

It is great to see you posting! There has been a lot of water under the bridge since you, my dad and I made those trips from Fayetteville to Durham starting back in the mid-60s.

[Olympic Fan]

I am very much a pro-Cutcliffe guy and as anyone who has read my posts know, I'm about the most optimistic Duke football fan in hyperspace. I really do think Cut has brought the program a long way and with a very, VERY young team this year has them on the verge of success.

All that said, allow me to go negative for a moment.

(1) I hate, hate, HATE the Boone package. I hated it when it was the Connette package. Today was just one example -- we got our two TDs today when they allowed Renfree to stay in and throw into the end zone for one TD and to run for the other. As noted above, Boone's first three appearances resulted in (1) a procedure penalty (different cadence is hard for the OL to handle) that essentally killed a drive; (2) a two-yard loss on fourth and one that literally killed a drive; and (3) a fumbled handoff that essentially ended the game. Today was awful, but the Boone package has been stinking up the join and slowing our offensive momentum for most of the season. Yes, it's sometimes productive on short yardage ... but I think lining up in the I and giving Renfree the option to throw or hand off would be even more effective.

(2) I can't believe how unaggressive Duke's playcalling is. Is that the OC? Or is it Cut's fault. Today, Duke ran 10 first-down plays in the first half. The first eight were I-formation handoffs to the tailback right up the middle (for about an average of 2 yards). The last two were shotgun formation handoffs to the tailback right up the middle (which got a little more yardage because there was less than 30 seconds left in the half and Miami was in a prevent defense).

Think about the start of the game. Miami takes the kickoff and scores in five plays (okay, the TD was bogus, but even if they get the call right, they still have second and goal at the two). Down 7-0, Duke gets the ball near the 30 and runs up the middle and throws a short pass for 3rd and one. That brings in Boone and we get the penalty for procedure. Facing third and six, we bring Renfree back in and try to run a swing pass to the tailback. Against Wake, I wasn't sure whether all the short passes were called or were conservative reads by Renfree, but on this occasion, he was looking for his TB as snoon as he came up from center, so I know it was called. The play gains two yards and we punt (after another penalty).

Miami promptly scores and we're down 14-0. On our second possession, it's run, run and another quick swing pass to the tailback. Another punt, another quick TD and we're down 21-0 and the game io essentially over.

Okay, the way Miami's offense was abusing our defense, there probably wasn't a chance to win anyway, but god, it would have been nice to show some fire on offense, some imagination ... SOME AGGRESSIVENESS.

Watching our offense today was like watching Steve Sloan's offense in the '80s.

I still have a lot of hope for Coach Cut and his program, but today was tough to swallow ... tougher than getting beat so bad by Forida State, I would have thought Cut knew that Duke couldn't simply line up and beat a team like Miami by playing it safe and conservative.

[chrishoke]

Want to feel worse? Old Dominion beat Richmond yesterday by 14! It was their 6th loss in a row.

[GDavidson]

It is great to see you posting! There has been a lot of water under the bridge since you, my dad and I made those trips from Fayetteville to Durham starting back in the mid-60s.

It has been a long time Bob since the 60`s It is a lot easier drive from Fayetteville to Durham now. I don`t post a lot but I read the boards almost every day. I`m just frustrated with Duke football and I`m too stubborn and loyal to quit being a fan. I just feel like Duke should be able to compete on a higher level.

[CameronBornAndBred]

You just have to look at the progress at Northwestern, Vandy, UVa, Stanford since Cutcliffe was hired, Cutcliffe's weak nonsensical recruiting efforts, Cut's predictable playcalling, the lack of progress in the Duke Program (notwithstanding his having been given lower academic thesholds in recruiting than Northwestern and Stanford), to get close to the conclusion that Cutcliffe is not the right man to bring Duke Football back.

Without having read the rest of the responses on this thread, I take huge issue with your calling out Cut's recruiting effort. The fact is that with Duke as what he is trying to sell, David Cutcliffe has done a great job of recruiting. We are both faster and bigger than we have been in recent memory. We will NEVER bring in classes stacked with 4 star recruits. But when you look at the next tier of guys available, I have loved the ones he has sold the university on.

[fuse]

For all the "fire Cut" bandwagon, name even two quality head coaches that would do a better job after Cut that would want the job.
Cutcliffe wants to be here, has a quality staff, and most importantly has changed the expectations of Duke football from being irrelevant to "expecting to win" (results notwithstanding.)

I've thought for the past 2 years we'd be bowling but the Alabama hangover killed us last year and this year has been tough to watch.
I think Cut and his staff deserve another 2-4 years to demonstrate bringing Duke football to a consistent level of competitive in every game, and 5-6/6-5 or better as a season record.

I don't think Duke can win out and be bowl eligible this year and that makes me sad for the seniors who have really put their hearts into making Duke football better.
I think changing coaching staff now sets us back another 4 years and would be a huge mistake.

-g

[Wander]

For all the "fire Cut" bandwagon, name even two quality head coaches that would do a better job after Cut that would want the job.
Cutcliffe wants to be here, has a quality staff, and most importantly has changed the expectations of Duke football from being irrelevant to "expecting to win" (results notwithstanding.)

I think basically all of us who are following the program agree that Cut needs to keep the job. I don't know of any reasonable person who thinks he should be fired. The program is clearly significantly better than where it was before Cut.

But something needs to change with the playcalling. Is there a single other D1 coach in the country who has this bizarre policy involving a backup quarterback? The Leak/Tebow situation at Florida isn't analogous for reasons I explained in another thread, and I've seen other teams give second-string quarterbacks experience by giving them a series or something, but I've never seen anything this nonsensical and pathetically ineffective before. This package is directly responsible for 14 points in the game, and Miami 42, Duke 21 is a whole lot more respectable considering the talent differential in a road game. The package Boone needs to go. Immediately.

Also, Duke going for an onside kick immediately after halftime has to be the worst kept secret in the ACC - it's worked before, but I assume opponents study enough film to see the pattern. I know this is the type of thing that you love when it works, but the surprise factor is gone.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Okay, the way Miami's offense was abusing our defense, there probably wasn't a chance to win anyway, but god, it would have been nice to show some fire on offense, some imagination ... SOME AGGRESSIVENESS.

Agree we need to be more aggressive. But I would amend that slightly to be SMARTLY aggressive. The Boone thing has been stated enough times already. It's neither smart nor aggressive. But I also think about that crucial moment in the game when we scored our second touchdown, had some real momentum on offense, down just 28-14, and we do WHAT? Seriously, we're going to catch Miami off guard with an onside kick? We literally threw the game away right there. Call it aggressive if you want, but I call stupid. It's fine to take some calculated risks - a reverse, a flea flicker on 1st down, whatever. But that was absolutely inane. I know hindsight is 20/20, but really, I cannot believe that call. You've got to have faith that your defense can get it figured out. At least make Miami work for it. But flipping the field on yourself that quickly and at that crucial moment... sorry, I will never understand that.

[sagegrouse]

You just have to look at the progress at Northwestern, Vandy, UVa, Stanford since Cutcliffe was hired, Cutcliffe's weak nonsensical recruiting efforts, Cut's predictable playcalling, the lack of progress in the Duke Program (notwithstanding his having been given lower academic thesholds in recruiting than Northwestern and Stanford), to get close to the conclusion that Cutcliffe is not the right man to bring Duke Football back.

Here are the records for selected schools, comparing the last four years (Cut's tenure) vs. the four years before that (2004-2007)

Duke		
15	30	 0.333 
4	42	 0.087 
Northwestern		
28	20	 0.583 
22	25	 0.468 
Vanderbilt		
15	31	 0.326 
16	30	 0.348 
Stanford		
34	13	 0.723 
14	32	 0.304

Duke has a winning percentage that is FOUR TIMES what is was before.

Northwestern has improved from just below 0.500 to above 0.500.

Vanderbilt is no better than before.

Stanford has had a good run, better than doubling its win percentage.

Now exactly what was your point about other teams improving more than Duke?

sagegrouse