Redshirt anyone?

[CameronBornAndBred]

I think it will be a silent redshirt of MPIII. I don't think you will see all three brothers on the court at once this year as K only plays those that are "ready to play" and have earned playing time.

What will be the most telling scene is when Duke is up by a gajillion against someone, and Zafirovsky comes in while Marshall sits.

[jimsumner]

What will be the most telling scene is when Duke is up by a gajillion against someone, and Zafirovsky comes in while Marshall sits.

That opportunity should come tomorrow. Shaw isn't very good.

[stillcrazie]

While I hope for great things from Marshall, we don't yet know the pace of his development. Obviously we don't know Parker's either, but having more guys on the roster gives us a better chance of having at least one ready to contribute.

Personally, I think Parker is more important for 2013 than 2012. We'll still have Ryan and possibly Mason next year, but they're both gone afterwards. Even in the best case scenario for Marshall, I don't think he'll be playing 40 minutes a game as a junior. And while I like Josh and Alex, I'm not eager to see either of them playing center while Marshall is out. We could get Noel Nerlens or Jabari Parker in the 2013 class, but that isn't guaranteed. One on the team is worth two on the recruitment board, to mangle a metaphor.

Is Marshall redshirting? I had not seen this.

[Dukeface88]

Is Marshall redshirting? I had not seen this.

I was responding to the general "we'll have Marshall" point. I have no idea whether he's actually redshirting.

[MCFinARL]

I was responding to the general "we'll have Marshall" point. I have no idea whether he's actually redshirting.

I seem to recall that someone asked Coach K about this after Marshall did not appear in the exhibition games and he said that no decision has been made to redshirt him--but since I don't know the exact words, I'm not sure whether he meant that Marshall would definitely not be redshirted or whether he meant that the question was still open.

If they keep him on the active roster but don't play him, can he be redshirted retroactively? This might be a good strategy if they want to keep him available in case of injury to another big. But I don't know whether, in the case of a non-injury-related redshirt, the rules require a clear declaration early on.

[JasonEvans]

I seem to recall that someone asked Coach K about this after Marshall did not appear in the exhibition games and he said that no decision has been made to redshirt him--but since I don't know the exact words, I'm not sure whether he meant that Marshall would definitely not be redshirted or whether he meant that the question was still open.

If they keep him on the active roster but don't play him, can he be redshirted retroactively? This might be a good strategy if they want to keep him available in case of injury to another big. But I don't know whether, in the case of a non-injury-related redshirt, the rules require a clear declaration early on.

I may be wrong, but my understanding of the redshirt rule is as follows --

You can practice and sit on the bench, but if you go into any game, your redshirt is blown...

...Unless you are applying for a medical redshirt. In the case of a medical redshirt, so long as you have not played in more than 15% of your team's games (generally about 6 games), you can apply for a medical redshirt and get the year of eligibility back.

Seeing as Marshall is not a medical redshirt candidate, Duke must be careful about even playing him in these exhibition games. If he plays, his voluntary redshirt would be blown. But, there is nothing to prevent him from sitting on the bench and practicing.

Duke has not made any announcement about Marshall and they don't have to. There is no time limit on deciding these things. He could sit on the bench all through January and then Duke could decide to blow out his redshirt and start playing him in February. Though that is very rarely done for obvious reasons.

-Jason "it sure seems like they are aiming to redshirt him" Evans

[superdave]

I may be wrong, but my understanding of the redshirt rule is as follows --

You can practice and sit on the bench, but if you go into any game, your redshirt is blown...

...Unless you are applying for a medical redshirt. In the case of a medical redshirt, so long as you have not played in more than 15% of your team's games (generally about 6 games), you can apply for a medical redshirt and get the year of eligibility back.

Seeing as Marshall is not a medical redshirt candidate, Duke must be careful about even playing him in these exhibition games. If he plays, his voluntary redshirt would be blown. But, there is nothing to prevent him from sitting on the bench and practicing.

Duke has not made any announcement about Marshall and they don't have to. There is no time limit on deciding these things. He could sit on the bench all through January and then Duke could decide to blow out his redshirt and start playing him in February. Though that is very rarely done for obvious reasons.

-Jason "it sure seems like they are aiming to redshirt him" Evans

Yes it does. With three experienced guys splitting the 4/5 rotation, and with Josh Hairston grabbing a few minutes at the 4, I think we're set for this year unless someone gets injured.

But I also like the few things I've read about Marshall getting after his brothers in practice. It sounds like the three Plumlees have been duking it out behind the scenes.

Super "Pun Intended" Dave

[94duke]

I may be wrong, but my understanding of the redshirt rule is as follows --

You can practice and sit on the bench, but if you go into any game, your redshirt is blown...

...Unless you are applying for a medical redshirt. In the case of a medical redshirt, so long as you have not played in more than 15% of your team's games (generally about 6 games), you can apply for a medical redshirt and get the year of eligibility back.

Seeing as Marshall is not a medical redshirt candidate, Duke must be careful about even playing him in these exhibition games. If he plays, his voluntary redshirt would be blown. But, there is nothing to prevent him from sitting on the bench and practicing.

Duke has not made any announcement about Marshall and they don't have to. There is no time limit on deciding these things. He could sit on the bench all through January and then Duke could decide to blow out his redshirt and start playing him in February. Though that is very rarely done for obvious reasons.

-Jason "it sure seems like they are aiming to redshirt him" Evans

How are these last two exhibition games different from the overseas exhibition games? Didn't Marshall play in some of them?

[Kedsy]

Seeing as Marshall is not a medical redshirt candidate, Duke must be careful about even playing him in these exhibition games. If he plays, his voluntary redshirt would be blown.

There seems to be conflicting information about this. Someone said freshmen are allowed to play in the exhibition games and still redshirt. And I thought I read that elsewhere as well, but I'm not certain.

Not that it matters anymore because the exhibition games are finished, but is it true or untrue?

[jimsumner]

I seem to recall that someone asked Coach K about this after Marshall did not appear in the exhibition games and he said that no decision has been made to redshirt him--but since I don't know the exact words, I'm not sure whether he meant that Marshall would definitely not be redshirted or whether he meant that the question was still open.

If they keep him on the active roster but don't play him, can he be redshirted retroactively? This might be a good strategy if they want to keep him available in case of injury to another big. But I don't know whether, in the case of a non-injury-related redshirt, the rules require a clear declaration early on.

Actually, I asked K if a decision had been made on Marshall. K's response was that no decision had been made and one did not have to be made.

Obviously, K was being a bit disingenous. If a decision had been made to play Marshall, he would be playing. If he doesn't play, he can play later on. If he does play, he can't be redshirted later on (barring injury).

If he doesn't play a second, Duke doesn't have to file for a redshirt or ask for a redshirt or announce a redshirt or anything else. I suspect we won't see Marshall this season unless there are significant injuries to the 4/5 rotation or he demonstrates in practice a clear superiority over the other options (not likely).

Call it insurance.

Note that Duke did this a few years ago with walk-on Jordan Davidson. He practiced and dressed out for every game. He just didn't play. Likewise with Todd Z as a freshman. There was no announcement. They just didn't play.

[ChillinDuke]

If he doesn't play a second, Duke doesn't have to file for a redshirt or ask for a redshirt or announce a redshirt or anything else. I suspect we won't see Marshall this season unless there are significant injuries to the 4/5 rotation or he demonstrates in practice a clear superiority over the other options (not likely).

Call it insurance.

Note that Duke did this a few years ago with walk-on Jordan Davidson. He practiced and dressed out for every game. He just didn't play. Likewise with Todd Z as a freshman. There was no announcement. They just didn't play.

Jim, I'm confused. So are you saying they would just use up his freshman year? Jordan and Todd were walk-ons, no? Marshall is obviously a recruited scholarship player. Clearly, K wouldn't want to just burn his recruited player's freshman year. A redshirt would be filed at some point if it was decided he wouldn't play. Am I misunderstanding?

- Chillin

[superdave]

Jim, I'm confused. So are you saying they would just use up his freshman year? Jordan and Todd were walk-ons, no? Marshall is obviously a recruited scholarship player. Clearly, K wouldn't want to just burn his recruited player's freshman year. A redshirt would be filed at some point if it was decided he wouldn't play. Am I misunderstanding?

- Chillin

I think what Jim is saying is that most likely Marshall wont play this season (barring an injury at the 4/5 spots) and will be redshirted but that there wont be a formal announcement forthcoming.

[SCMatt33]

A few notes to clear up on the medical redshift (even though it's not really relevant). I believe that a player can play in 25% of the games, as I seem to remember 8 games as the cutoff point for basketball. The second is that none of those games can be past the halfway point of the year. I Think most people intuitively assume the second one, but it's worth stating anyway.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Note that Duke did this a few years ago with walk-on Jordan Davidson. He practiced and dressed out for every game. He just didn't play. Likewise with Todd Z as a freshman. There was no announcement. They just didn't play.

There is a pretty big difference between Jordan Davidson & Todd Z AND Marshall Plumlee - a McDonald's All-American. Jordan Davidson and Todd Z were/are never expected to be difference-makers down the line. Marshall Plumlee is.

I think the red-shirt issue is an absolutely interesting one. I agree that Marshall is indeed more of an insurance policy in case (God forbid) something happens to the MP1/MP2/RK line-up. But - and I'm not sure we need this - Marshall is 5 fouls, and that is always useful.

[gumbomoop]

I think what Jim is saying is that most likely Marshall wont play this season (barring an injury at the 4/5 spots) and will be redshirted but that there wont be a formal announcement forthcoming.

I also think this is what Jim is saying. I'd also add/repeat this from his post, for part of the confusion about the "rule" for redshirting is the issue of whether Duke must "file" a redshirt-intent [or some such thing] re Marshall.

Jim said....

If he doesn't play a second, Duke doesn't have to file for a redshirt or ask for a redshirt or announce a redshirt or anything else.

[jimsumner]

I also think this is what Jim is saying. I'd also add/repeat this from his post, for part of the confusion about the "rule" for redshirting is the issue of whether Duke must "file" a redshirt-intent [or some such thing] re Marshall.

Jim said....

Correct. If he doesn't play a second this season, then Marshall Plumlee will have four years of eligibility remaining. There's no form to fill out.

[Duvall]

Correct. If he doesn't play a second this season, then Marshall Plumlee will have four years of eligibility remaining. There's no form to fill out.

How long would Plumlee have to use those four years of eligibility? Would Marshall's participation in practices and team activities start his five-year clock?

[JasonEvans]

How long would Plumlee have to use those four years of eligibility? Would Marshall's participation in practices and team activities start his five-year clock?

The moment you start taking classes as a full-time student, your 5-year clock starts. Marshall's clock started a couple months ago. The only thing that can stop/pause the clock is withdrawing from school to serve in the military or going on a Mormon mission.

-Jason "hope that clears it up-- and thanks to the person who corrected me on the 15% vs 25% for the medical redshirt" Evans

[jimsumner]

The moment you start taking classes as a full-time student, your 5-year clock starts. Marshall's clock started a couple months ago. The only thing that can stop/pause the clock is withdrawing from school to serve in the military or going on a Mormon mission.

-Jason "hope that clears it up-- and thanks to the person who corrected me on the 15% vs 25% for the medical redshirt" Evans

One of the arguments against Marshall taking a non-injury redshirt, is that it precludes his taking a medical redshirt somewhere down the line, should circumstances dictate. This applies to everyone of course. An example is Duke football player Jack Farrell. Farrell sat out 2009, his freshman season. He played last season as a redshirt freshman. He was injured in Duke's third game this season and is out for the year. But he'll still be a junior next season. The injury redshirt option disappeared when he didn't play as a freshman. He still only has five seasons to complete four seasons of competition.

Injury redshirts aren't that common in men's hoops but it does happen. Trajan Langdon, Nate James and Nick Horvath had fifth years because of injuries.

[gam7]

One of the arguments against Marshall taking a non-injury redshirt, is that it precludes his taking a medical redshirt somewhere down the line, should circumstances dictate. This applies to everyone of course. An example is Duke football player Jack Farrell. Farrell sat out 2009, his freshman season. He played last season as a redshirt freshman. He was injured in Duke's third game this season and is out for the year. But he'll still be a junior next season. The injury redshirt option disappeared when he didn't play as a freshman. He still only has five seasons to complete four seasons of competition.

Injury redshirts aren't that common in men's hoops but it does happen. Trajan Langdon, Nate James and Nick Horvath had fifth years because of injuries.

This argument doesn't make sense to me. I think everyone can agree that, even if not redshirted, Marshall almost certainlty will not play any meaningful minutes this season (if Miles were to get hurt, we'd play Mason and Ryan, even though neither is a true center, before we would use Marshall). So, if we do not redshirt him this year, and then he uses a medical redshirt later on (meaning two full years of no meaningful minutes while only losing one year of eligibility), he is in the exact same position as if he were to non-med redshirt this year and then lose a full year to injury.

Having said that, I am not in favor of his redshirting this year. I just don't think the argument above makes any sense.