Surprised nothing on the board yet, but UNC issued their response to the NCAA investigation a couple of hours ago, including some self-imposed penalties:
http://espn.go.com/college-football/...-ahead-hearing
Basically, they vacated their wins from 2008 and 2009, imposed a two-year probation on themselves, fined themselves $50,000 and imposed a three-scholarship reduction on themselves for the next three years. They used the Sgt, Schultz defense to explain their nine major violations: "I know nothing ... NOTHING!" It was all a rogue agent-coach (who they paid $75,000 to resign), a rogue tutor and a rogue head coach (who they paid millions to do away, without requiring him to cooperate with the NCAA to get his buyout as Ohio State did with Tressel).
The penalties are laughably light -- ESPN's Stewart Mandell is already ripping them on twitter. We'll find out the real penalties after their hearing in late October. My guess is that the NCAA adds another year of probation (for three years total), a one-year bowl ban (this season) and reduces scholarships by at least five a year, maybe 7-8. Oh yes, the fine will be larger than $50,000 (Georgia Tech was just fined $100,000 for far, FAR less).
BTW: With UNC vacating their wins over Duke is 2008 and 2009, do we get the victory bell ... or do they keep it with their 2010 win (unless the NCAA vacates that one too).
Why would the comment about the victory bell be considered a joke? Duke did not win the game, so it doesn't get the bell. UNC, even though it is not not forfeiting the game (losing), has now, however, not "won" the game, either, so why should it get the bell?
I actually think it would be a good move on UNC's part to say, in effect, "you know, we got away from our true mission there for a while, and sullied the game, and that's not who we really are, so we shouldn't have the bell right now, and it reverts to Duke [who is clean, and almighty, and better than us] until we can win the bell again, fair and square ..."
Because the game never happened. Therefore it would stay in the possession of the holder. Since UNC won the last non-vacated game between the two teams, they would retain possession of the Bell.
And trust me, you do not want to think about the 2007 Duke-Carolina game. Or the 2006 one. Or the 2005 one.
Actually, the last 20+ years.
But I digress.
So if these "offers" made by unc represent their acknowledged mea culpa (meaning they are apparently content with their own suggested punishment) what is the likelihood now that the NCAA might really slam them with sanctions far more severe??
If it's anything like a courtroom plea bargain, one would think the "other side" (NCAA) might really be loaded for bear and unc already knows it! Will (fake?) contrition work for the heels?
Something akin to the teenager who wrecks the family car and then offers as punishment that he will not stay out past 2 am on one Saturday night.
k
Since the wins were "vacated" instead of the games being forfeited, do we still have losses? Otherwise, how can we be 0-2 and the dark side 0-0 for the same contests? Not that it helps our overall futility that much. But I still hope the games are forfeited so we can be bowl eligible for 2009. As for the bell, today's students (and those of the past decade) probably don't know there is one, or think its part of the Carolina cheer squad.
But the game *did* happen. Duke showed up, fielded a team per the rules, and was looking for a fair contest. UNC also showed up, did not field a team per the rules, and had no interest in upholding the rules of college football.
The winner of the game gets the bell. UNC did not win, per its actions today. Duke did not win, per the score on the field. Under the circumstances, I say it should go to Duke. Not because I hate UNC (I do), not because I want the bell (I do) ... but I do think UNC needs to come to grips w/ what it has done. They violated the sense, spirit and literal rule of fair play. On some level, goofy trophies like The Victory Bell, and the ax, and the old bucket, and this and that, are all about the sense of fun and fair play -- gather w/ your rival, play for something goofy, sport at its best, realize we're all in this together. At least that's what it symbolizes to me. Maybe I missed the fine print that said the bell goes to the team with the agent runner associate coach, the felony-indicted former player in the weight room who allegedly transports peanut butter and pepper balls, and "A"'s for papers about Mohammedism and Africa w/ its 115 million people. UNC won the last time we played fairly for it, but it hasn't given us a fair game in a while, so should not keep the bell during its time of not living up to its end of the bargain.
Man, if your Mom made you wear that color when you were a baby, and you're still wearing it, it's time to grow up!
You're right. The games did happen. UNC did not win them. But Duke did lose them. The stats for the game count. UNC's wins were vacated but Duke's losses were not. A curious situation. We're told that team sports are zero sum but in this instance they aren't.
But losing a game whose win is later vacated by the winning team doesn't equate to a win by the original losing team. It's still a loss.
A forfeit is a different thing. But these aren't forfeits.
And yes, this all makes my head hurt.
http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/Charl...120271264.html
Barcott was nearing graduation at UNC Chapel Hill and committed to joining the Marines. But as he'd soon discover, something would happen on the way to war.
"I was fortunate enough to take Swahili classes with the starting lineup of the men's basketball team at UNC. That was quite an experience," he said.
http://followthetarheels.posterous.c...of-will-graves
In addition, his academic track record was often less than sparkling as well. As one former teammate noted: “I think he failed Swahili. Everyone on the team takes that class and I’m pretty sure Will was the first one to fail.”
I had a teacher in the 6th grade that used to let us paddle ourselves...we made a lot of noise and looked like we were killing ourselves. But we sure weren't going to inflict much damage. So we didn't take it very seriously...
hud