Alberto Contador "B Test" tests positive

[JohnGalt]

I saw Pumpkinfunk had this in the TdF thread, but I thought - after the B Test results came through - it deserved another thread...

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/SPORT/09...nned/?hpt=Sbin

Alberto Contador tested positive for clenbuterol. The "B Test" confirmed the results. He blamed the positive testing on "contaminated meat."

Wow. Again? Really?? What is going on with cycling?

[PumpkinFunk]

What is going on with cycling?

Doping happens in all sports. The Tour de France happens to be the event where the most doping seems to be present because it, like other Grand Tours, is a 3-week hell for the riders, and they look for the quick, easy fix. Sports doping was starting en masse in cycling and the sport fundamentally does more than other sports to keep itself clean. Unfortunately, a lot of riders get caught as they try and cultivate a cleaner reputation.

[hughgs]

I saw Pumpkinfunk had this in the TdF thread, but I thought - after the B Test results came through - it deserved another thread...

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/SPORT/09...nned/?hpt=Sbin

Alberto Contador tested positive for clenbuterol. The "B Test" confirmed the results. He blamed the positive testing on "contaminated meat."

Wow. Again? Really?? What is going on with cycling?

There is a bit of a caveat to his positive result.

The amount of clenbuterol found was 40x below the minimum threshold required for a WADA approved lab to detect. And the lab that detected the clenbuterol is the only lab capable of finding that small amount. I'm not saying that he did or did not dope but it does muddy the waters a bit.

[DukieInKansas]

There is a bit of a caveat to his positive result.

The amount of clenbuterol found was 40x below the minimum threshold required for a WADA approved lab to detect. And the lab that detected the clenbuterol is the only lab capable of finding that small amount. I'm not saying that he did or did not dope but it does muddy the waters a bit.

However, there is no limit on what makes it a positive test. I don't think the level muddies the waters. It's just AC's misfortune that the test was run in that particular lab.

[hughgs]

However, there is no limit on what makes it a positive test. I don't think the level muddies the waters. It's just AC's misfortune that the test was run in that particular lab.

Are you saying that even though the level is 40x below the threshold that all other labs are able to detect that there aren't any legitimate concerns about the positive test? I could buy that argument if other labs could detect that small amount or if the level was only 2-3x below other labs. But, 40x and exclusivity are issues that seem quite legitimate to me. And if one can bring up legitimate concerns, then the result isn't crystal clear.

[DukieInKansas]

Are you saying that even though the level is 40x below the threshold that all other labs are able to detect that there aren't any legitimate concerns about the positive test? I could buy that argument if other labs could detect that small amount or if the level was only 2-3x below other labs. But, 40x and exclusivity are issues that seem quite legitimate to me. And if one can bring up legitimate concerns, then the result isn't crystal clear.

From what I have been reading, the UCI doesn't consider what the level is - just whether the test found any clenbuterol in the sample. The low level can be used as part of AC's defense that the presence in the sample is due to a food source and not because he took the medication. He may avoid sanctions with this defense but that remains to be seen.

[hughgs]

From what I have been reading, the UCI doesn't consider what the level is - just whether the test found any clenbuterol in the sample. The low level can be used as part of AC's defense that the presence in the sample is due to a food source and not because he took the medication. He may avoid sanctions with this defense but that remains to be seen.

At no time did I say anything about whether clenbuterol was or wasn't in Contador's system or whether the detection of the clenbuterol was considered a positive test. What I said was that the circumstances wasn't as clear cut as simply saying that Contador tested positive for clenbuterol. You're arguing against something that I never said and tried to make clear in my initial post.

[DukieInKansas]

At no time did I say anything about whether clenbuterol was or wasn't in Contador's system or whether the detection of the clenbuterol was considered a positive test. What I said was that the circumstances wasn't as clear cut as simply saying that Contador tested positive for clenbuterol. You're arguing against something that I never said and tried to make clear in my initial post.

I'm not trying to argue with you - just pointing out that there are no minimum levels for a positive test. The lab in Cologne is capable of testing at this low a level. I have not read that anyone is questioning the accuracy of the lab's results.

In my mind, the 2 arguments to be discussed are:
1. Since most labs aren't as accurate in testing low levels as the one in Cologne, should any levels below what most WADA accredited labs must be able to detect be considered a non-positive result?

2. Should Contador be sanctioned or not?

Currently, WADA/UCI say no to #1. I think the extremely low level detected will help AC in his defense to avoid sanctions.

In my mind, his positive is clear cut but whether he subject to sanctions is not clear cut. There is an argument that this low level could be due to food contamination. My guess is that they will try to find a way to settle this so that they do not have to strip the title for a 2nd Tour de France champion.

[hughgs]

I'm not trying to argue with you - just pointing out that there are no minimum levels for a positive test. The lab in Cologne is capable of testing at this low a level. I have not read that anyone is questioning the accuracy of the lab's results.

In my mind, the 2 arguments to be discussed are:
1. Since most labs aren't as accurate in testing low levels as the one in Cologne, should any levels below what most WADA accredited labs must be able to detect be considered a non-positive result?

2. Should Contador be sanctioned or not?

Currently, WADA/UCI say no to #1. I think the extremely low level detected will help AC in his defense to avoid sanctions.

In my mind, his positive is clear cut but whether he subject to sanctions is not clear cut. There is an argument that this low level could be due to food contamination. My guess is that they will try to find a way to settle this so that they do not have to strip the title for a 2nd Tour de France champion.

I agree with everything you say.

But, please the next time you try not to argue with me don't start by saying that "I don't think the level muddies the waters" in response to a post where I say that the level muddies the waters.

[DukieInKansas]

I agree with everything you say.

But, please the next time you try not to argue with me don't start by saying that "I don't think the level muddies the waters" in response to a post where I say that the level muddies the waters.

Mea culpa.

I will point out that I did not say those two items in the same post.

[hughgs]

Mea culpa.

I will point out that I did not say those two items in the same post.

Were you disagreeing with me in your initial response to me and now you're agreeing with me? I don't understand.

[Ping Lin]

While you two are busy arguing over semantics (;p), the plot thickens.

Doesn't look good for Contador.

[JasonEvans]

While you two are busy arguing over semantics (;p), the plot thickens.

Doesn't look good for Contador.

A test for plastic bags-- too cool!! Now that is really good testing! Next thing you know, they will have a test to see if you have stuck a needle in your arm.

Contador is in deep doo-doo!

--Jason "it is starting to feel like the testing world may be catching up to the doping world... a little bit" Evans

[hughgs]

A test for plastic bags-- too cool!! Now that is really good testing! Next thing you know, they will have a test to see if you have stuck a needle in your arm.

Contador is in deep doo-doo!

--Jason "it is starting to feel like the testing world may be catching up to the doping world... a little bit" Evans

Didn't Armstrong have a number of samples frozen, or was that just an idea?

[Ping Lin]

Didn't Armstrong have a number of samples frozen, or was that just an idea?

He does indeed, in a couple of labs scattered throughout the world. (At least if the Daily News is to be believed.)

A lot of the organic telltale signals will have deteriorated by this time, but the plasticizers found in Contador's urine are obviously nonorganic, and should still be fine with freezing. I guess there's the issue of whether the plasticizer test will work with thawed samples, or years+ old samples, but I don't see why not.

I'm under the strong impression, however, that most (if not all) of the frozen Lance samples are only about three or so years old, and honestly, if Lance doped in the past three years while knowing the entire world was going to analyze his samples, he deserves what's coming.

[hughgs]

He does indeed, in a couple of labs scattered throughout the world. (At least if the Daily News is to be believed.)

A lot of the organic telltale signals will have deteriorated by this time, but the plasticizers found in Contador's urine are obviously nonorganic, and should still be fine with freezing. I guess there's the issue of whether the plasticizer test will work with thawed samples, or years+ old samples, but I don't see why not.

I'm under the strong impression, however, that most (if not all) of the frozen Lance samples are only about three or so years old, and honestly, if Lance doped in the past three years while knowing the entire world was going to analyze his samples, he deserves what's coming.

Why would the organic stuff have deteriorated if they're frozen? Isn't that the idea of freezing the sample?

[Bostondevil]

I have a friend who is a fairly serious cyclist. Not good enough to compete on a world level, but very good. He tells me, in cycling circles, the adage is "There are cheaters and there are losers." I have come to believe it is impossible to win the Tour de France without cheating.

[roywhite]

I have a friend who is a fairly serious cyclist. Not good enough to compete on a world level, but very good. He tells me, in cycling circles, the adage is "There are cheaters and there are losers." I have come to believe it is impossible to win the Tour de France without cheating.

Maybe we're headed to a "funny car" segment of sports, where any fuel is permissible in certain events.

I hate what doping has done to sports I like, such as cycling and track and field, not to mention football and major league baseball. I'm really not sure what the answer is.

Should we keep on fighting these battles?

[cf-62]

Maybe we're headed to a "funny car" segment of sports, where any fuel is permissible in certain events.

I hate what doping has done to sports I like, such as cycling and track and field, not to mention football and major league baseball. I'm really not sure what the answer is.

Should we keep on fighting these battles?

What has doping done to football? These guys have obviously been using "muscle builders" and other enhancing drugs since most of us have watched professional football.

I for one have always felt the WADA was essentially a witch hunt organization the worked on innuendo, preyed on fears, and re-established the McCarthyism doctrine of guilt by association.

[OldPhiKap]

Maybe we're headed to a "funny car" segment of sports, where any fuel is permissible in certain events.

I hate what doping has done to sports I like, such as cycling and track and field, not to mention football and major league baseball. I'm really not sure what the answer is.

Should we keep on fighting these battles?

That's what is so sad about this ongoing saga. Cycling is one of the few sports to really try and clean itself up. As a result, it seems like the dirtiest.

Let's start taking A and B samples of baseball and football players on a random basis right after a game. Oh wait, the unions won't allow it? And the owners don't want to know?