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  1. #1

    Kendall Marshall NBA Chances

    Quote Originally Posted by DukeHoopsGuru View Post
    Roy's recipe to date is very simple. His system requires an extremely fast and good north to south point guard. It's no coincidence UNC did a 180 when Marshall took over the point.
    Well, except Marshall isn't extremely fast. He's good, but footspeed isn't his finest attribute.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by DukeHoopsGuru View Post
    Roy's recipe to date is very simple. His system requires an extremely fast and good north to south point guard. It's no coincidence UNC did a 180 when Marshall took over the point.
    Marshall doesn't fit that description at all. He's in fact fairly slow for a PG. There is virtually no similarity between him and Felton/Lawson. As for Williams, he's had success in the past (at Kansas) without an explosive north-south PG. And now he's had some success without an explosive north-south PG in Marshall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Marshall doesn't fit that description at all. He's in fact fairly slow for a PG. There is virtually no similarity between him and Felton/Lawson. As for Williams, he's had success in the past (at Kansas) without an explosive north-south PG. And now he's had some success without an explosive north-south PG in Marshall.
    Not to make too much of this point, but the ball gets upcourt in a hurry with Marshall.

    He's certainly not the fastest, but he hustles and is not afraid to make long passes ahead.

    Marshall's foot speed, or lack thereof, can be more of an issue on defense.
    His vulnerability on defense can be disguised against many teams, but a team like, say....Duke has such talent on the perimeter that he can be exploited thru attacking and wearing him down.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    Not to make too much of this point, but the ball gets upcourt in a hurry with Marshall.

    He's certainly not the fastest, but he hustles and is not afraid to make long passes ahead.

    Marshall's foot speed, or lack thereof, can be more of an issue on defense.
    His vulnerability on defense can be disguised against many teams, but a team like, say....Duke has such talent on the perimeter that he can be exploited thru attacking and wearing him down.
    Exactly, north-south isn't all foot speed. The secondary break requires getting the ball up the floor in a hurry. Marshall isn't Felton nor Lawson, but he moves the ball extremely well.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    Not to make too much of this point, but the ball gets upcourt in a hurry with Marshall.

    He's certainly not the fastest, but he hustles and is not afraid to make long passes ahead.

    Marshall's foot speed, or lack thereof, can be more of an issue on defense.
    His vulnerability on defense can be disguised against many teams, but a team like, say....Duke has such talent on the perimeter that he can be exploited thru attacking and wearing him down.
    My main point of contention was with the statement "extremely fast." Marshall is, by no means, extremely fast. He's a very crafty player and terrific passer. But the formula with him at PG is very different from the formula with Lawson or Felton at PG. Just like the formula was different with Adonis Jordan at PG on two of Williams's Final Four teams at Kansas.

  6. #6
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    Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    There is a very good chance that Marshall is gone after this season. Credible people, including some scouts, are saying he's likely worked his way into the first round already.
    Really? I thought he was one of those great four year college players. I can't really see him as much in the NBA. Not trying to knock him as a college player, but he's slow and not very physical for an NBA guard. I'm just remembering Nolan taking him completely out of the ACC finals by playing aggressive defense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    Really? I thought he was one of those great four year college players. I can't really see him as much in the NBA. Not trying to knock him as a college player, but he's slow and not very physical for an NBA guard. I'm just remembering Nolan taking him completely out of the ACC finals by playing aggressive defense.
    That's what I'm hearing is possible.
    I personally don't buy it, I think it's more likely after his Jr. year. But I can see the argument some are making that his stock could be really high after this season, and that since Henson, Barnes probably, while Zeller certainly goes, that he may too.

    He struggled with Nolan in that game, Nolan played really well.
    But NBA scouts like his leadership and overall game and they know he makes players around him better.

    Here's one 2012 Mock draft profile that has him as early second round now.
    Last edited by Wheat/"/"/"; 10-06-2011 at 05:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    Really? I thought he was one of those great four year college players. I can't really see him as much in the NBA. Not trying to knock him as a college player, but he's slow and not very physical for an NBA guard. I'm just remembering Nolan taking him completely out of the ACC finals by playing aggressive defense.
    KM was a freshman who was playing against the ACC POY, who is an experienced senior, and who was really on his game that day. The entire Duke team was on their game that day. Nolan's leadership and excellent play took UNC's most important player out of the game that day. KM probably learned a lot from that experience last year. Playing against Lawson and Felton all summer long has probably helped him prepare for this upcoming season. Sure, no one plays D in pickup games, but to completely dismiss the experience wouldn't be fair. In fact, KI played a ton in the Smith Center this year, so KM probably matched up against him as well. A year of experience, a year of physical growth, and a year of improvement can make a really good PG and great PG. His idol is Jason Kidd. They both have the same sort of skill-set, how did Kidd work out?

  9. #9

    I hear what you're saying....

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathby3 View Post
    KM was a freshman who was playing against the ACC POY, who is an experienced senior, and who was really on his game that day. The entire Duke team was on their game that day. Nolan's leadership and excellent play took UNC's most important player out of the game that day. KM probably learned a lot from that experience last year. Playing against Lawson and Felton all summer long has probably helped him prepare for this upcoming season. Sure, no one plays D in pickup games, but to completely dismiss the experience wouldn't be fair. In fact, KI played a ton in the Smith Center this year, so KM probably matched up against him as well. A year of experience, a year of physical growth, and a year of improvement can make a really good PG and great PG. His idol is Jason Kidd. They both have the same sort of skill-set, how did Kidd work out?
    But with all due respect, KM is no where near being what Jason Kidd was when he was in college. KM appears to be an excellent leader and a good passer; but Kidd was a bigger and much faster athlete on the court; and a much better defensive player thatn KM is now. I would even say Kidd was a better passer; he reminded me a lot of Magic in that regard. Kidd was drafted No 2 overall; and no offense, I don't see KM being top 2 draft pick in any draft.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Class of '94 View Post
    But with all due respect, KM is no where near being what Jason Kidd was when he was in college. KM appears to be an excellent leader and a good passer; but Kidd was a bigger and much faster athlete on the court; and a much better defensive player thatn KM is now. I would even say Kidd was a better passer; he reminded me a lot of Magic in that regard. Kidd was drafted No 2 overall; and no offense, I don't see KM being top 2 draft pick in any draft.
    Agreed. Marshall and Kidd have the same type of skillset in the sense that they are floor generals who pass first. But Kidd has a much better collection of those skills (much stronger ballhandler, MUCH better defender, better passer as well). Kidd was also a much more capable scorer than Marshall.

    I'd be fairly surprised if Marshall is ever a first round pick, let alone after his sophomore year. That doesn't mean he wouldn't try to go of course (kids do dumb things).

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Agreed. Marshall and Kidd have the same type of skillset in the sense that they are floor generals who pass first. But Kidd has a much better collection of those skills (much stronger ballhandler, MUCH better defender, better passer as well). Kidd was also a much more capable scorer than Marshall.

    I'd be fairly surprised if Marshall is ever a first round pick, let alone after his sophomore year. That doesn't mean he wouldn't try to go of course (kids do dumb things).
    His father is a member of the IC and he is a regular poster. He mentioned at the end of last season that he thought his son may try to make the leap to the NBA after his Jr season. At that point, KM will be much stronger and much more experienced. He may not be a clone of Kidd, but he is in the same mold. There is no reason he couldn't lead a team in the NBA. Because of his work ethic, he will improve. Once he develops his scoring ability, he will become a much more effective PG.

  12. #12
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    I guess

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathby3 View Post
    His father is a member of the IC and he is a regular poster. He mentioned at the end of last season that he thought his son may try to make the leap to the NBA after his Jr season. At that point, KM will be much stronger and much more experienced. He may not be a clone of Kidd, but he is in the same mold. There is no reason he couldn't lead a team in the NBA. Because of his work ethic, he will improve. Once he develops his scoring ability, he will become a much more effective PG.
    Seems to me that Marshall's weaknesses relate mostly to a lack of extreme athleticism, particularly a lack of speed and lateral quickness, and it's hard to improve those types of things. He could improve his shooting, of course.

    I also think that Marshall has been touted as gifted player since he was quite young and that may influence his thinking and that of his father. That is, they may have an inflated view of his abilities.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    Seems to me that Marshall's weaknesses relate mostly to a lack of extreme athleticism, particularly a lack of speed and lateral quickness, and it's hard to improve those types of things. He could improve his shooting, of course.

    I also think that Marshall has been touted as gifted player since he was quite young and that may influence his thinking and that of his father. That is, they may have an inflated view of his abilities.
    Or you could have a deflated view of his abilities because he wears a different shade of blue?

  14. #14

    agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    Seems to me that Marshall's weaknesses relate mostly to a lack of extreme athleticism, particularly a lack of speed and lateral quickness, and it's hard to improve those types of things. He could improve his shooting, of course.

    I also think that Marshall has been touted as gifted player since he was quite young and that may influence his thinking and that of his father. That is, they may have an inflated view of his abilities.
    In my opinion, KM is more Steve Blake than Jason Kidd. Like Blake, KM can manage a game and not make mistakes but he isn't going to blow you away with his ability.

    Kidd, in the other hand, was really athletic in his early days and remains incredibly strong. Kidd is one of the better rebounding PGs ever. It's amazing to see Kidd gather a contested defensive rebound and lead the fast break.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    Seems to me that Marshall's weaknesses relate mostly to a lack of extreme athleticism, particularly a lack of speed and lateral quickness, and it's hard to improve those types of things. He could improve his shooting, of course.

    I also think that Marshall has been touted as gifted player since he was quite young and that may influence his thinking and that of his father. That is, they may have an inflated view of his abilities.
    Keep in mind that athleticism is great and all, but it's way over-rated in a five man game. Players that are smart and crafty can give up some physical advantages and still be very successful.

    To back up this point, take a look at the '86 Celtics line up. A great team and NBA champions.

    D. Ainge
    D. Johnson
    Bird
    K. McHale
    R. Parrish

    I'd argue that their entire starting line up lacked "athleticism", by run, jump, quickness definition, and they beat some extremely athletic teams.

  16. #16
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    Of course, it could be

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathby3 View Post
    Or you could have a deflated view of his abilities because he wears a different shade of blue?
    But I wouldn't have said the same thing about Felton or Lawson, so I don't think that's what it is. I just don't think he's quick enough to be effective in the NBA.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    Keep in mind that athleticism is great and all, but it's way over-rated in a five man game. Players that are smart and crafty can give up some physical advantages and still be very successful.

    To back up this point, take a look at the '86 Celtics line up. A great team and NBA champions.

    D. Ainge
    D. Johnson
    Bird
    K. McHale
    R. Parrish

    I'd argue that their entire starting line up lacked "athleticism", by run, jump, quickness definition, and they beat some extremely athletic teams.
    The 2010 National Champion Duke Squad was not overwhelming in the athlectic department....out side of Nolan, the rest of the team was pretty floor bound. And not fleet of foot.

    Have we already compared Scheyer and KM? Who would you take?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faison1 View Post
    Have we already compared Scheyer and KM? Who would you take?
    Loaded question, calculated to get me in the doghouse, well played.

    If we are comparing freshman seasons, which is the only fair thing to do, I take Marshall without a doubt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    If we are comparing freshman seasons, which is the only fair thing to do, I take Marshall without a doubt.
    Interesting point. I forgot KM was only a freshman last year. I don't think I've ever agreed with you on anything, but I might on this. Hopefully KM does not progress as well as Jon did over his career.

  20. #20
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    My Carolina sources think that Marshall is more than willing to start taking NBA money sooner than later.

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