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  1. #1661
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDevilBrowns View Post
    Interesting article from The Tennessean regarding expansion:

    LINK:http://www.tennessean.com/article/20...text|FRONTPAGE

    I'm sure the NCSU and Tech fanbases would be all for a move out of the "unfair" ACC but I just don't see how the UNC School System would allow State to go without UNC. Also, if the SEC wasn't interested in WVU, I don't think they would be interested in VTech.
    Where we may end up in all of this is precisely the kind of split up which pulling NC State into the SEC or another conference would entail. We are talking about TV. Schools in the same geographic location in the same conference dont particularly help the TV contract. Duke and North Carolina could continue their rivalry in separate conferences. Would it not be more likely that the SEC would want UNC and that NCState might end up in the Big 12? Where might Duke end up? I could see the Big 10 being interested, for the national appeal of our Basketball program, academics, prominence as a research instituion. On the other hand, were we to end up poorly, I could see a rethinking of our Football program. Its an unsettling mess. But, what is the ultimate downside to Duke?

  2. #1662
    I don't see Duke dropping its football program, if they do they'll definitely demote themselves even though the team isn't that good right now.
    I'd love to go to thr Big 10 though, is this a slightly realistic chance if the ACC begins to fall apart?

  3. #1663
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDevil16 View Post
    I don't see Duke dropping its football program, if they do they'll definitely demote themselves even though the team isn't that good right now.
    I'd love to go to thr Big 10 though, is this a slightly realistic chance if the ACC begins to fall apart?
    When this was going down with KU the last couple of summers, many fans & alumni wanted to push hard for the Big10 too. The hilarious-but-true argument was "we are AAU, we bring a Top 5 hoops program, and you likely have a guaranteed football W". Of course, KU is not in the same stratosphere as Duke academically, but the primary problem for both is their tiny football stadiums. KU holds roughly 50K, Duke 34K. Northwestern is the smallest in the Big10, and they are about 50K (a little less I think).

  4. #1664
    Quote Originally Posted by pamtelp View Post
    As much as I love college basketball, the demise of the Big East serves as a warning to the ACC. The Big East has been the best college basketball conference the past few years and covers many of the biggest and best media markets in the country, but it proved to be unstable. It just doesn't work.

    Success in college football is required be a thriving conference these days.
    Let the schools who want to join join...including FSU if that is what they want. Let them have their own BCS organization for all sports. Reorganize the remaining non-BCS schools under the NCAA banner in a way that is geographically and economically more sound, stable, and efficient and see what's what.

    The simple fact is there are far too many schools out there to simply include 64 teams. For a tournament yes. For a play off yes. But not for the entire organization. Yes those 64 are some of the strongest, but there are plenty of strong schools left after that to go along with the hundreds of others. Done right there may come a time when the 64 are seen as the "others".

    I'm just sick of all of the pandering, whining, scheming, the whole bloody lot of it. I don't want to move to the Big 10. I don't want 16 team conferences. This is all being done for the sake of football. So let's go a different direction and do it for the sake of the schools. For the sake of the athletes. For the sake of the fans. Heck, for the sake of competition.

  5. #1665
    Quote Originally Posted by TexHawk View Post
    When this was going down with KU the last couple of summers, many fans & alumni wanted to push hard for the Big10 too. The hilarious-but-true argument was "we are AAU, we bring a Top 5 hoops program, and you likely have a guaranteed football W". Of course, KU is not in the same stratosphere as Duke academically, but the primary problem for both is their tiny football stadiums. KU holds roughly 50K, Duke 34K. Northwestern is the smallest in the Big10, and they are about 50K (a little less I think).
    Wade easily expands to 44 - 46k without adding upper decks and without adding seats in the open end other than as the field were lowered about 12 feet. Close in the open end and we are at 60k plus. Lowering the field, going to 46k, plus and including adding an entirely new track facility is a $25 million proposition.

  6. #1666
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    Quote Originally Posted by formerdukeathlete View Post
    Wade easily expands to 44 - 46k without adding upper decks and without adding seats in the open end other than as the field were lowered about 12 feet. Close in the open end and we are at 60k plus. Lowering the field, going to 46k, plus and including adding an entirely new track facility is a $25 million proposition.
    I have warm feelings for the Duke football program for many reasons, including that it helped put me through Duke years ago and crystallized a love of travel to new places in me....but it might just be a good idea to figure out how we are going to get folks to fill those 46,000 (or 60,000) seats before expanding Wallace Wade. I don't think this is a case of "Build it and *they* will come."

  7. #1667
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmartDevil View Post
    I don't think this is a case of "Build it and *they* will come."


    Agreed. I always find it funny to point out when folks use this line, that it came from a FICTIONAL movie. Not Adam Smith.

  8. #1668
    Quote Originally Posted by SmartDevil View Post
    I have warm feelings for the Duke football program for many reasons, including that it helped put me through Duke years ago and crystallized a love of travel to new places in me....but it might just be a good idea to figure out how we are going to get folks to fill those 46,000 (or 60,000) seats before expanding Wallace Wade. I don't think this is a case of "Build it and *they* will come."
    a few things:

    WW is a negative in terms of capacity and vis a vis symbolism of Duke's interest in, let alone commitment to Football.

    Average attendance, fans, demographics come into the equation in conference realignment and potential interest in the Duke as a school to be invited to a new conference.

    Remove the track and put seats down on top of a lowered field and we will improve the game day experience at Wade 5 fold. Even if we draw 30k in stadium seating 46k the crowd will be louder and more into the game.

    Renovation proposals, which faculty are choking on because of the dollars involved, focus on premium seating while not bringing seats down around the field as well as might be done.

    These proposals are estimated to cost between 100 and 150 million.

    FAU built an entirely new stadium seating 30k for 62 million. It can be expanded to 60k for a total all in of 80 million. They have 5k club seats and multiple suites.

    At this point it is up to the University to decide whether they want a Football program. They ultimately will need a stadium sans track with around 46k capacity. This and a new track facility is a 25 million proposition, tops. And, it puts fans around the field, and it gives us a D-1 stadium worthy of consideration in the era of conference realignment.

    Seems to me a no brainer.
    Last edited by formerdukeathlete; 05-20-2012 at 09:53 PM.

  9. #1669
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    Quote Originally Posted by formerdukeathlete View Post
    a few things:

    WW is a negative in terms of capacity and vis a vis symbolism of Duke's interest in, let alone commitment to Football.

    Average attendance, fans, demographics come into the equation in conference realignment and potential interest in the Duke as a school to be invited to a new conference.

    Remove the track and put seats down on top of a lowered field and we will improve the game day experience at Wade 5 fold. Even if we draw 30k in stadium seating 46k the crowd will be louder and more into the game.
    Absolutely right. The problem with Wally Wade is that, regardless of size, it just isn't a very good football stadium. Fix that, and then maybe there will be a capacity problem.

  10. #1670
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForkFondler View Post
    Absolutely right. The problem with Wally Wade is that, regardless of size, it just isn't a very good football stadium. Fix that, and then maybe there will be a capacity problem.
    I dunno, ForkFondler. How long ago was it that Sports Illustrated wrote in its college football issue that Wallace Wade was "the best place in the country to watch bad football?" The bookend to that line was that Nebraska, whose stadium had a gentle cant, was "the worst place in the country to watch good football."

    sage

  11. #1671
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    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    I dunno, ForkFondler. How long ago was it that Sports Illustrated wrote in its college football issue that Wallace Wade was "the best place in the country to watch bad football?" The bookend to that line was that Nebraska, whose stadium had a gentle cant, was "the worst place in the country to watch good football."

    sage
    In addition to having a track in the way, WW also has a gentle cant -- so unless SI was giving points for tradition, I can't see why they liked it. Maybe track and field counts as bad football.

  12. #1672
    What is the goal? Do you want Duke to build a football program to compete with Texas, Florida, Alabama and Ohio State? Not going to happen. What was the last small private school to win a national championship in football?

    I don't think Duke should try to follow where big time college football is headed. If the final product excludes all but 4 super conferences then, in the end, the product will be diminished. Just be who you are and it will work out for basketball and all sports.

    The Charlotte Hornets had the league attendance record and a great facility that was easy to get in and out of but they just had to have a new facility with more luxury boxes so people who didn't really care about the games could socialize with a bar and a buffet with the game playing on TV in the background. I think it's worthwhile to note how that turned out for the Hornets and the Bobcats

  13. #1673
    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    What is the goal? Do you want Duke to build a football program to compete with Texas, Florida, Alabama and Ohio State? Not going to happen. What was the last small private school to win a national championship in football?

    I don't think Duke should try to follow where big time college football is headed. If the final product excludes all but 4 super conferences then, in the end, the product will be diminished. Just be who you are and it will work out for basketball and all sports.

    The Charlotte Hornets had the league attendance record and a great facility that was easy to get in and out of but they just had to have a new facility with more luxury boxes so people who didn't really care about the games could socialize with a bar and a buffet with the game playing on TV in the background. I think it's worthwhile to note how that turned out for the Hornets and the Bobcats
    This is not about doing anything extravagant, that is, not what I am describing. Its basic stuff which makes Wade workable for Football, if not ideal. Better approach would be to demo and redig the entire bowl. And, the finished product under any scenario would be further to the goal of Duke remaining in an upper tier FBS and all sports conference. It would be a far cry from being representative of a football factory.

  14. #1674
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    What is the goal? Do you want Duke to build a football program to compete with Texas, Florida, Alabama and Ohio State? Not going to happen. What was the last small private school to win a national championship in football?
    Well, Notre Dame, undergrad enrollment of 8,442 and total enrollment of 11,603 compares with Duke enrollment numbers of 6,526 and 14,746. ND has won eight official NCS and three claimed from the Rockne era. The last was under Lou Holtz in 1988.

    I thought USC (11 poll championships) was the other counter example, only to discover that undergrad enrollment there is 17,380 and total is over 50,000.

    sagegrouse

  15. #1675
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    I dunno, ForkFondler. How long ago was it that Sports Illustrated wrote in its college football issue that Wallace Wade was "the best place in the country to watch bad football?" The bookend to that line was that Nebraska, whose stadium had a gentle cant, was "the worst place in the country to watch good football."

    sage
    I love watching a game at WW, there's not a bad seat in the house and even our Carolina friends seem to enjoy watching the games there. That is the problem right there. I find it silly that we're concerned with building a bigger stadium when we can't fill...can't come close to filling the ones we have.

    As for the track, it seems to be the splinter under everyone nail, but I've never really minded it.

    I agree with the previous poster, if only 4 conferences are going to be included then something else will materialize and I'd be completely happy being in the other.

  16. #1676
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorp4me View Post
    As for the track, it seems to be the splinter under everyone nail, but I've never really minded it.
    Hold that thought until the happy day comes when we don't have a track on the field, and tell us what you think. I'm all for the track team having their own stadium (I believe the proposed site is on one of the currently crappy fields between Koskinen and the WaDuke) as soon as possible.

    If nothing else, Duke should see a priority in becoming competitive enough in football to bolster itself in the changing landscape. As much as the NCAA tournament makes, football keeps D1 athletics as a whole viable, and we can't afford to be left out. For that alone, every Duke basketball fan should at least be rooting for a little football success.

    As far as filling the stadium, it's getting better. It takes a long time to build back what years of neglect brought on, and stop comparing us to other private school programs, because none of them have our combination of unfortunate factors working against them. Patience is key.

  17. #1677
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    In regards to the ACC, I'm surprised no one on this thread is talking about Clemson and FSU. I was just told by a Clemson fan that the Clamson A.D. is holding a press conference today at 1:30. I'm assuming it has to do with yesterday's rumors that Clemson is bolting for the BigXII.

    Has anyone been following this, or are we not allowed to discuss rumors/subjects such as these?

  18. #1678
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Well, Notre Dame, undergrad enrollment of 8,442 and total enrollment of 11,603 compares with Duke enrollment numbers of 6,526 and 14,746. ND has won eight official NCS and three claimed from the Rockne era. The last was under Lou Holtz in 1988.

    I thought USC (11 poll championships) was the other counter example, only to discover that undergrad enrollment there is 17,380 and total is over 50,000.

    sagegrouse
    Yep Notre Dame 25-years ago. That pretty much sums up Duke's chances. ND has been a football powerhouse forever and they seem to be the football exception in numerous ways. For instance they evidently don't even need to win or play better than average to remain considered an elite program.

  19. #1679
    Quote Originally Posted by Faison1 View Post
    In regards to the ACC, I'm surprised no one on this thread is talking about Clemson and FSU. I was just told by a Clemson fan that the Clamson A.D. is holding a press conference today at 1:30. I'm assuming it has to do with yesterday's rumors that Clemson is bolting for the BigXII.

    Has anyone been following this, or are we not allowed to discuss rumors/subjects such as these?
    I wouldn't be at all surprised. Clemson is a football minded school and their fans and boosters measure themselves almost exclusively against South Carolina and vice-versa. They've gotten the short end over the last 3-years and they aren't happy at all. On top of tha,t the latest rumors have USC fans crowing loud about how Clemson will be left out in the cold in the ACC. They really couldn't stand being left out in football and I would not be at all surprised to see them panic in this situation.

  20. #1680
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faison1 View Post
    In regards to the ACC, I'm surprised no one on this thread is talking about Clemson and FSU. I was just told by a Clemson fan that the Clamson A.D. is holding a press conference today at 1:30. I'm assuming it has to do with yesterday's rumors that Clemson is bolting for the BigXII.

    Has anyone been following this, or are we not allowed to discuss rumors/subjects such as these?
    There are blogs and team site message boards that have FSU gone from the ACC (believed to the Big12) and Clemson with one foot out the door.

    Hopefully, this shakes out soon; the ACC has been on the acquistion side; maybe we'll see some changes in the other direction?

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