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  1. #1621
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexHawk View Post
    I don't think that is necessarily true in the new world of a playoff. In one proposed version, it's only conference champs in the Top 6, and if there aren't four of those, take the top at-large. With the relative weakness of the rest of the ACC (compared to B10, Big12, Pac12, SEC), is FSU guaranteed to make the playoff if it wins the ACC? They would probably need to go undefeated in conference and beat Florida.
    Obviously we can't examine this with certainty until the final details of the playoff are set. But just using the current BCS ranking system as a barometer, I suspect FSU could go 12-1 while playing in the ACC and finish top 4, especially if they started the season with a relatively high ranking. I certainly think they would finish top 6, if the NCAA adopts that model.

    An FSU team that goes 12-1 with an ACC schedule would likely go 11-2 or even 10-3 in the Big 12, and that assumes that they could still win their division and make it to the Big 12 championship game. An FSU team of that caliber would still have a shot at the playoff by virtue of being ACC champ, while the same team could be outright eliminated at that same point in the Big 12.

    So we're back to asking: would FSU rather try to win the ACC or the Big 12 to get to the playoff?

  2. #1622
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    Quote Originally Posted by jafarr1 View Post
    So we're back to asking: would FSU rather try to win the ACC or the Big 12 to get to the playoff?
    But is that question even on the map re: FSU leaving? I think it is, probably, somewhere. I think msduke has hit the nail on the head re: FSU. though. I imagine that many of the wealthiest FSU grads are located mostly in Orlando, Jacksonville, Birmingham and Atlanta where they hear about the SEC from their colleagues and how great the SEC is on a daily basis. They want to be seen on the same level as those teams. It's all a you-know-what measuring contest, and a guy like Haggard grabs the most easily available statistic to claim FSU may not be maximizing their opportunity.

    We (including me) talk about TV revenue and that the Big 12 get $20MM under their contract, the ACC gets $17MM, the SEC is renegotiating its $17MM contract, etc. etc. But check this link out (note it's by football and basketball PROGRAM).

    The teams at the top (including Louisville basketball) have been able to access revenue streams outside of TV so that they aren't as dependent on the conference TV contract. As you get down further, you see that the TV contract becomes a larger and larger percentage of a team's revenue. Some, like UT, Ohios St, etc. have built in advantages. You'd think Florida St. would at least be on par with someone like West Virginia. But check out where FSU lands. You'll have to scroll down a bit. Compare them to Kentucky in the SEC, and you begin to understand why they are so upset. Compare them to NC State or Clemson in conference, and you start to wonder how badly FSU has been mismanaged such that their gross revenues are so low. At ~$18MM revenue (less than both Oregon St. and Iowa St. football programs), they probably need to be looking inward, and not at the ACC. I mean shouldn't they be at least hovering around $30MM?

  3. #1623
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    Quote Originally Posted by A-Tex Devil View Post
    But is that question even on the map re: FSU leaving? I think it is, probably, somewhere. I think msduke has hit the nail on the head re: FSU. though. I imagine that many of the wealthiest FSU grads are located mostly in Orlando, Jacksonville, Birmingham and Atlanta where they hear about the SEC from their colleagues and how great the SEC is on a daily basis. They want to be seen on the same level as those teams. It's all a you-know-what measuring contest, and a guy like Haggard grabs the most easily available statistic to claim FSU may not be maximizing their opportunity.

    ...

    At ~$18MM revenue (less than both Oregon St. and Iowa St. football programs), they probably need to be looking inward, and not at the ACC. I mean shouldn't they be at least hovering around $30MM?
    The problem, even if some FSU boosters don't realize it yet, is that jumping to the Big 12 is not going to put them on par with the SEC schools, because (a) the Big 12 is going to continue to trail the SEC in revenues per school, even if the Big 12 added FSU and another strong football team, (b) even if a new Big 12 contract put FSU on par with SEC schools, FSU's financial mismanagement is going to result in a net loss compared to SEC schools, and (c) it's not going to matter a lick if they can't win football games.

    Do they risk falling further behind if they don't make a jump? I suppose. But they would be trading W's and longer commutes across all sports for cash, which doesn't seem like the best way to rebuild the pride of your football program, even if the locker rooms are a little nicer for it.

  4. #1624
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    Just want to clarify earlier post... it looks like when FSU restated its per sport earnings in 2010-2011, it improved significantly in 2010-2011. See links below which explains why FSU jumped so much (the articles are interesting in and of themselves). So maybe it's not as dire in Tallahassee as it seemed at first. Apologies.

    http://businessofcollegesports.com/2...ball-programs/

    and ACC by itself: http://businessofcollegesports.com/2...ancials-10-11/

  5. #1625
    Quote Originally Posted by jafarr1 View Post
    The problem, even if some FSU boosters don't realize it yet, is that jumping to the Big 12 is not going to put them on par with the SEC schools, because (a) the Big 12 is going to continue to trail the SEC in revenues per school, even if the Big 12 added FSU and another strong football team, (b) even if a new Big 12 contract put FSU on par with SEC schools, FSU's financial mismanagement is going to result in a net loss compared to SEC schools, and (c) it's not going to matter a lick if they can't win football games.

    Do they risk falling further behind if they don't make a jump? I suppose. But they would be trading W's and longer commutes across all sports for cash, which doesn't seem like the best way to rebuild the pride of your football program, even if the locker rooms are a little nicer for it.

    Swofford may have done a poor job with the ESPN renegotiation. The payout structure is for an extended period, over which time it will appear worse and worse relative to other conferences, when perhaps we should be investing in an ACC Network format which is similar to the Big 10 network. Problem - we are already under contract with ESPN and have or are renegotiating a contract which was entered into during the worst possible time, the financial crisis. FSU's threat of leaving lights a fire under ESPN. Lets hope so, and that it may force ESPN's hand to improve the terms.

    Were FSU to join the Big 12, what would happen to their annual game with Miami? Lose that, and what are they going to do in order to play games in South Florida - play FIU? Joining the Big 12 may hurt recruiting in Florida, Georgia, along the East Coast. Greater travel costs, inconvenient travel, particularly for non-rev who wont be riding on charter flights, some more money, tougher Football coupled with poorer recruiting, and poorer academics. Now, that is a formula for success.

  6. #1626
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    Any effort to tease meaningful analysis from the federally reported numbers is doomed.

    Schools report what they want to report. Their athletic programs have a lot of overlap between varsity, club/IM, and PE.

    I've posted this example before: how does Duke report on the golf course? Is it a team facility and costs go against the team? A hotel facility that generates income? Do greens fees from the hotel go to the team? Does the team pay a fee to use the course? Duke has a lot of latitude in how this one small item gets reported.

    Does the hospital get expenses for the track as a sports medicine facility? How about sports medicine as a department? Athletics or hospital? I feel sure similar examples abound, and different schools report numbers to suit their needs.

    One noteworthy example - does anyone really think Louisville earns more than UK in hoops? Really?

    Yes, schools have financial issues. About the only number that might be clean is the payout for a conference tv package. Otherwise, it's all slight of hand.

    -jk

  7. #1627
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    If FSU wants to leave the southeast to play teams 1000 miles away, including multiple programs that are historically stronger in football (typically, they'd annually lose to both Texas and Oklahoma), then they should leave. fsu is a 2nd/3rd tier university that should be and probably is thrilled to be associated with UVA, unc, georgia tech, and Miami (much less duke).

    ie, they want to leave? yawn. won't happen. and if it does, fine

  8. #1628
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    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    Any effort to tease meaningful analysis from the federally reported numbers is doomed.

    Schools report what they want to report. Their athletic programs have a lot of overlap between varsity, club/IM, and PE.

    I've posted this example before: how does Duke report on the golf course? Is it a team facility and costs go against the team? A hotel facility that generates income? Do greens fees from the hotel go to the team? Does the team pay a fee to use the course? Duke has a lot of latitude in how this one small item gets reported.

    Does the hospital get expenses for the track as a sports medicine facility? How about sports medicine as a department? Athletics or hospital? I feel sure similar examples abound, and different schools report numbers to suit their needs.

    One noteworthy example - does anyone really think Louisville earns more than UK in hoops? Really?

    Yes, schools have financial issues. About the only number that might be clean is the payout for a conference tv package. Otherwise, it's all slight of hand.

    -jk

    Louisville does earn more than UK in hoops - gross revenue. But it's because they got Yum! or whoever pays for the stadium name to pay them a ridiculous amount per year for the naming rights. UK, as much as we love to denigrate them, and UNC for that matter, have not done that yet even though they could. The Cherrywine Dean Smith Center could bring in a ton of dough for UNC. As could the Bojangles Cameron Indoor Stadium for Duke.

    Texas makes a very large portion of it's overall athletic department revenues selling its soulless cavern of a basketball stadium for concerts like Lady Gaga, Andrea Bocelli, the Wiggles and Tom Petty.

    Schools have identified different revenue streams to supplement their athletic department. A school like Louisville has been willing to take steps others may not, certainly. But the schools that are finding ways beyond TV to make money (and Duke is one of them) are going to have the most successful athletic departments.

  9. #1629
    Quote Originally Posted by A-Tex Devil View Post
    Louisville does earn more than UK in hoops - gross revenue. But it's because they got Yum! or whoever pays for the stadium name to pay them a ridiculous amount per year for the naming rights. UK, as much as we love to denigrate them, and UNC for that matter, have not done that yet even though they could. The Cherrywine Dean Smith Center could bring in a ton of dough for UNC. As could the Bojangles Cameron Indoor Stadium for Duke.

    Texas makes a very large portion of it's overall athletic department revenues selling its soulless cavern of a basketball stadium for concerts like Lady Gaga, Andrea Bocelli, the Wiggles and Tom Petty.

    Schools have identified different revenue streams to supplement their athletic department. A school like Louisville has been willing to take steps others may not, certainly. But the schools that are finding ways beyond TV to make money (and Duke is one of them) are going to have the most successful athletic departments.
    The situation for Duke, UK, and UNC isn't the same as for Louisville. Naming rights are only valuable if they are used. You see the same thing in European soccer. A new, or newer, stadium's naming rights are more valuable than those of one with an established name. Cameron would never be referred to anything other than Cameron. The new Louisville arena had no identity or history so naming it KFC Yum! Center, despite it sounding stupid, made sense. The Dean Dome, Rupp, and Cameron are akin to the Santiago Bernabeu, Anfield, and Old Trafford. They will always be identified with those names no matter what sign you put on it.

    Unless, of course, Fleets or Dulcolax bought the naming rights to the Dean Dome.

    The KFC Yum! Center also isn't owned by the university. I would have a hard time if Duke sold naming rights to a stadium or venue on campus to a company when it would be better used to honor someone who has had an influence on the university.

  10. #1630
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    Quote Originally Posted by A-Tex Devil View Post
    ...the Bojangles Cameron Indoor Stadium for Duke.
    Your point would be stronger if you didn't pick the one corporate sponsor many of us would actually support. How awesome would the Blue Devil look with a giant spork?

  11. #1631
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattC09 View Post
    The situation for Duke, UK, and UNC isn't the same as for Louisville. Naming rights are only valuable if they are used. You see the same thing in European soccer. A new, or newer, stadium's naming rights are more valuable than those of one with an established name. Cameron would never be referred to anything other than Cameron. The new Louisville arena had no identity or history so naming it KFC Yum! Center, despite it sounding stupid, made sense. The Dean Dome, Rupp, and Cameron are akin to the Santiago Bernabeu, Anfield, and Old Trafford. They will always be identified with those names no matter what sign you put on it.

    Unless, of course, Fleets or Dulcolax bought the naming rights to the Dean Dome. :p

    The KFC Yum! Center also isn't owned by the university. I would have a hard time if Duke sold naming rights to a stadium or venue on campus to a company when it would be better used to honor someone who has had an influence on the university.
    I think Preparation-X would be the best fit for the dean Dome.

  12. #1632
    Quote Originally Posted by jv001 View Post
    I think Preparation-X would be the best fit for the dean Dome.
    That or the Sonesta Dome.

  13. #1633
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattC09 View Post
    The situation for Duke, UK, and UNC isn't the same as for Louisville. Naming rights are only valuable if they are used. You see the same thing in European soccer. A new, or newer, stadium's naming rights are more valuable than those of one with an established name. Cameron would never be referred to anything other than Cameron. The new Louisville arena had no identity or history so naming it KFC Yum! Center, despite it sounding stupid, made sense. The Dean Dome, Rupp, and Cameron are akin to the Santiago Bernabeu, Anfield, and Old Trafford. They will always be identified with those names no matter what sign you put on it.

    Unless, of course, Fleets or Dulcolax bought the naming rights to the Dean Dome.

    The KFC Yum! Center also isn't owned by the university. I would have a hard time if Duke sold naming rights to a stadium or venue on campus to a company when it would be better used to honor someone who has had an influence on the university.
    Agreed. But I wasn't advocating that Duke or UK or UNC sell naming rights.

    Reading up on Louisville, the more significant sources of revenue come from charging students $35 a pop for games and suites are $85k per year, and selling alcohol at their games. This has worked for them as they are third in attendance even still. But obviously these choices aren't right for most programs.

  14. #1634
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    Quote Originally Posted by A-Tex Devil View Post
    Reading up on Louisville, the more significant sources of revenue come from charging students $35 a pop for games
    You think attendance was bad at Duke games this year? Try telling the students they need to start paying $35 for every game.

  15. #1635
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    Any effort to tease meaningful analysis from the federally reported numbers is doomed.

    Schools report what they want to report. Their athletic programs have a lot of overlap between varsity, club/IM, and PE.

    I've posted this example before: how does Duke report on the golf course? Is it a team facility and costs go against the team? A hotel facility that generates income? Do greens fees from the hotel go to the team? Does the team pay a fee to use the course? Duke has a lot of latitude in how this one small item gets reported.

    Does the hospital get expenses for the track as a sports medicine facility? How about sports medicine as a department? Athletics or hospital? I feel sure similar examples abound, and different schools report numbers to suit their needs.

    One noteworthy example - does anyone really think Louisville earns more than UK in hoops? Really?

    Yes, schools have financial issues. About the only number that might be clean is the payout for a conference tv package. Otherwise, it's all slight of hand.

    -jk
    Right on here. The AD accounting functions are all handled differently. There's a point system at KU where donations get seating preference for football and basketball. That was something like $47 Million "unallocated" revenue last year under KU's accounting that is basically due solely to basketball. There are no easy markers and it's almost always difficult to make apples-to-apples comparisons between schools.

  16. #1636
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    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonandblue View Post
    Right on here. The AD accounting functions are all handled differently. There's a point system at KU where donations get seating preference for football and basketball. That was something like $47 Million "unallocated" revenue last year under KU's accounting that is basically due solely to basketball. There are no easy markers and it's almost always difficult to make apples-to-apples comparisons between schools.
    So I got curious about reported revenues and expenses, and went to the Dept of Ed's athletics portal for all BCS schools (via federal reporting) and USA Today's database for public BCS schools (via Freedom of Info requests; private schools aren't subject to foi).

    I looked at NCAA numbers for all the BCS schools in both 2005 and 2010 on DoE, and for 2010 on USA Today, and included the 2010 numbers below.

    In both 2005 and 2010, under DoE reporting, about a third of the schools netted greater than $5mm, about a third between zero and $5mm, and about a third netted zero. Not a single school reported athletic expenses greater than revenue to DoE. Several schools reported net negatives to USA Today, though.

    There are stark differences between schools' federally reported numbers and the numbers USA Today got via FOI requests, but I didn't look for their methodologies to understand why. Oregon and Oklahoma St (one way), and Louisville (the other) have the largest differences between the two reports. Not sure where the discrepancies come from, other than Knight and Pickens. Oh, and by DoE's report, Louisville edges UK by $3mm; by USA Today's numbers, UK gets Louisville by $15mm.

    Mostly big state schools have the highest nets, which makes sense - large alumni base, low tuition. And my earlier point remains: schools play with their numbers to show the results they want, otherwise there wouldn't be so many net zeros. Some money was pushed around the schools to balance those books.


    Code:
    2010 Expenses and Revenues as reported to Dept of Ed and USA Today for BCS Schools
    
    School		DoE Rev		DoE Exp		DoE Net		USA Rev		USA Exp		USA Net
    
    Alabama		123,910,432	 92,225,560	31,684,872	130,542,153	 98,961,214	31,580,939
    Arizona		 58,274,431	 56,750,057	 1,524,374	 58,118,950	 56,919,148	 1,199,802
    Arizona State	 55,378,783	 55,378,783	         0	 63,487,395	 61,257,743	 2,229,652
    Arkansas	 91,768,113	 80,482,490	11,285,623	 78,072,620	 71,801,905	 6,270,715
    Auburn		103,982,441	100,497,784	 3,484,657	 92,611,558	 90,908,902	 1,702,656
    Baylor		 59,859,235	 59,859,235	         0			
    Boston College	 64,078,272	 64,078,272	         0			
    Cal-Berkeley	 65,006,338	 64,825,171	   181,167	 69,345,931	 69,345,912	        19
    Cincinnati	 37,367,392	 37,367,392	         0	 40,920,893	 43,478,383	-2,557,490
    Clemson		 61,174,977	 60,958,659	   216,318	 57,562,999	 56,780,518	   782,481
    Colorado	 60,923,253	 59,186,620	 1,736,633	 49,521,517	 48,590,915	   930,602
    Connecticut	 63,043,322	 62,948,800	    94,522	 58,505,719	 58,379,090	   126,629
    DePaul		 23,795,916	 23,795,916	         0			 
    Duke		 67,986,188	 67,418,981	   567,207			 
    Florida		123,008,257	112,951,656	10,056,601	117,104,407	105,824,376	11,280,031
    Florida State	 86,946,503	 86,946,503	         0	 74,402,269	 75,209,181	  -806,912
    Georgetown	 31,671,020	 31,671,020	         0			 
    Georgia		 92,341,067	 82,765,498	 9,575,569	 89,735,934	 77,250,831	12,485,103
    Georgia Tech	 46,910,364	 46,910,364	         0	 55,359,742	 55,221,082	   138,660
    Illinois	 57,539,367	 55,723,771	 1,815,596	 75,189,489	 71,957,222	 3,232,267
    Indiana		 70,172,641	 64,878,825	 5,293,816	 69,287,811	 65,796,415	 3,491,396
    Iowa		 92,903,555	 87,607,487	 5,296,068	 88,735,093	 74,438,196	14,296,897
    Iowa State 	 48,574,989	 48,453,303	   121,686	 46,871,554	 46,656,014	   215,540
    Kansas		 70,028,683	 70,028,683	         0	 70,548,520	 69,241,375	 1,307,145
    Kansas State 	 68,875,266	 45,479,858	23,395,408	 53,436,790	 42,337,682	11,099,108
    Kentucky	 84,878,315	 81,755,641	 3,122,674	 79,700,856	 79,002,986	   697,870
    Louisiana State	106,421,671	 96,019,689	10,401,982	111,030,795	102,326,769	 8,704,026
    Louisville	 87,736,320	 83,783,719	 3,952,601	 63,487,395	 61,257,743	 2,229,652
    Marquette 	 24,797,869	 24,797,869	         0			 
    Maryland	 57,765,018	 57,501,307	   263,711	 54,661,992	 54,661,992	         0
    Miami		 60,325,003	 57,561,177	 2,763,826			 
    Michigan	122,486,490	 95,836,991	26,649,499	106,874,031	 89,133,850	17,740,181
    Michigan State 	 80,963,182	 67,450,913	13,512,269	 83,545,892	 78,162,447	 5,383,445
    Minnesota	 78,924,683	 78,924,683	         0	 78,706,900	 78,706,900	         0
    Mississippi	 48,916,161	 48,916,161	         0	 45,737,904	 45,737,904	         0
    Mississippi St 	 49,893,731	 43,587,148	 6,306,583	 38,127,591	 36,265,186	 1,862,405
    Missouri	 59,005,954	 58,862,366	   143,588	 61,052,303	 61,766,109	  -713,806
    Nebraska	 83,679,756	 78,509,148	 5,170,608	 73,483,733	 71,738,068	 1,745,665
    NC Chapel Hill	 71,369,784	 70,709,553	   660,231	 72,825,407	 72,685,335	   140,072
    NC State	 54,711,001	 54,518,850	   192,151	 49,459,002	 45,880,314	 3,578,688
    Northwestern 	 56,214,293	 56,214,293	         0			 
    Notre Dame	 94,507,919	 75,360,209	19,147,710			 
    Ohio State	131,815,819	113,184,855	18,630,964	123,174,176	122,739,754	   434,422
    Oklahoma	104,338,843	 96,274,366	 8,064,477	 98,512,287	 87,678,199	10,834,088
    Oklahoma State	 70,123,206	 55,757,830	14,365,376	106,362,128	 83,748,207	22,613,921
    Oregon		 85,740,068	 69,306,426	16,433,642	122,394,483	 77,856,232	44,538,251
    Oregon State 	 50,843,837	 49,889,155	   954,682	 55,613,345	 52,669,946	 2,943,399
    Penn State	116,118,026	 84,498,339	31,619,687	106,614,724	 88,041,921	18,572,803
    Pittsburgh	 56,044,309	 56,044,309	         0			 
    Providence	 20,650,327	 20,650,327	         0			 
    Purdue		 66,066,303	 59,293,193	 6,773,110	 61,653,561	 58,365,143	 3,288,418
    Rutgers		 53,436,027	 53,436,027	         0	 64,203,255	 64,203,255	         0
    Seton Hall 	 21,785,714	 21,785,714	         0			 
    South Carolina	 83,704,667	 82,941,941	   762,726	 79,879,193	 78,295,030	 1,584,163
    South Florida	 43,494,246	 43,494,246	         0	 39,190,939	 39,088,660	   102,27
    Southern Cal	 75,707,273	 75,707,273	         0			 
    St John's	 32,289,136	 32,289,136	         0			 
    Stanford 	 81,125,476	 81,125,476	         0			 
    Syracuse 	 51,433,840	 50,716,023	   717,817			 
    Tennessee	102,495,204	102,480,757	    14,447	115,729,599	111,670,619	 4,058,980
    Texas		150,295,932	125,978,117	24,317,815	143,555,354	130,436,534	13,118,820
    Texas A & M	 74,944,301	 71,719,872	 3,224,429	 82,774,133	 75,941,926	 6,832,207
    Texas Tech 	 51,190,970	 48,066,724	 3,124,246	 61,974,623	 59,341,489	 2,633,134
    UCLA		 66,003,893	 66,003,893	         0	 61,875,531	 61,875,531	         0
    Vanderbilt 	 55,632,098	 49,864,555	 5,767,543			 
    Villanova 	 29,523,919	 29,523,919	         0			 
    Virginia	 78,439,006	 72,400,342	 6,038,664	 81,841,633	 70,870,412	10,971,221
    Virginia Tech	 61,077,122	 56,762,362	 4,314,760	 63,613,464	 55,738,633	 7,874,831
    Wake Forest 	 42,286,588	 42,286,588	         0			 
    Washington	 70,231,336	 67,900,835	 2,330,501	 64,034,410	 61,640,598	 2,393,812
    Washington St 	 40,617,093	 40,617,093	         0	 39,352,096	 38,045,842	 1,306,254
    West Virginia 	 58,003,719	 58,003,719	         0	 62,030,104	 56,607,917	 5,422,187
    Wisconsin	 93,594,766	 92,939,345	   655,421	 96,038,912	 92,259,330	 3,779,582
    -jk

  17. #1637
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    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post

    Mostly big state schools have the highest nets, which makes sense - large alumni base, low tuition. And my earlier point remains: schools play with their numbers to show the results they want, otherwise there wouldn't be so many net zeros. Some money was pushed around the schools to balance those books.

    -jk
    Great points, and I think Florida St's differences from 2010 to 2011 in Kristi Dash's reports certainly bolster your main point. I definitely concede that any of these reports must be read in context with how the data is being obtained and what the report/rankings are trying to show.

    Getting back to FSU to the Big XII, I get more and more comfortable as a fan of both the ACC and the Big XII that FSU leaving may be good for both conferences. The ACC showed solidarity last year that I don't think the rest of the country and other conferences expected, and I believe that will continue regardless of what FSU decides to do. msduke's thoughts seem to echo not just the Tobacco Road schools, but the ACC in general when it comes to FSU.

    From a Big XII perspective, it's great. It gives the Big XII the same inroads to Florida that the SEC got with A&M in Texas, and even if it's just a fraction, it helps. It potentially adds another football power depending on whether FSU can turn things around.

    Barron is trying hard to make the point for staying in the ACC. But he's doing it about as articulately as one might expect from the FSU president, and it's hurting his case. We saw what boosters and trustees can force on a president and an athletic department with A&M and Mizzou, and I think it may happen with FSU too. Especially if a move will provide a booster shot (pun intended) of donations in its coffers. It certainly did for A&M.

  18. #1638
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    Feb 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Add VCU to the (fifteen team) Atlantic 10, starting this fall. VCU-Butler is now a conference rivalry game (as is VCU-Richmond, keeping things closer to home).

    http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...al-atlantic-10
    Just be you. You is enough. - K, 4/5/10, 0:13.8 to play, 60-59 Duke.

    You're all jealous hypocrites. - Titus on Laettner

    You see those guys? Animals. They're animals. - SIU Coach Chris Lowery, on Duke

  19. #1639
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX

    Interesting podcast...

    If you have 45 minutes, this link is to a pretty juicy podcast from the WVU message board guy that has more or less been screaming about FSU to the Big XII since January. Grain of salt and all. If at the end of July (edit), we are still status quo, you can ding me for wasting your time.

    I tend to agree with his opinion that IF FSU and maybe one other football school goes, the core of the ACC really doesn't care. I also tend to agree (based on what has come to light) that the ESPN renegotiation may have even priced the risk of football schools leaving into the deal. The rest of it is all wait and see....

    If you don't have time, here's a quick summary of the podcast I stole from someone else. None of the below is my opinion. I'm just offering a summary of what is in the link.

    Quick recap but still worth the listen.

    • FSU and Clemson began talking to the Big 12 last November
    • FSU is invetible add for Big 12, too many burnt bridges
    • Georgia Tech now more attractice to Big 12 than Clemson because of ATL market but it is neck and neck
    • Clemson likely add at 13 if not 12.
    • Most likely next add is Pitt, Notre Dame with conference affiliation not football because of GT and Pitt add.
    • Oliver Luck is the ACC intermediary
    • Jimbo Fisher playing a big role and some FSU booster who helped Fisher and force BB out
    • Timing most likely late July
    • Probably major cool down in news over the next couple of weeks in part to threats by ACC to sue for tampering
    • ESPN contract speculated to be really weak for the ACC since they knew that those schools have been talking and could leave, hedging...
    • Everybody saying slow down and distancing, carefully chosen words by Dodds, Bowlsby, Clemson and FSU is right out of the Mike Slive, SEC playbook.
    • ACC would try to pick off Louisville, UCONN, Georgetown to become the elite BB league.
    • Disparity in ACC contractt and Big 12 really more like $9M out of the gate, adding 13th member triggers a renegotiation with TV and that could make the disparity really huge.
    • GT worried about $$$ (lack of alumni donation)
    Last edited by A-Tex Devil; 05-16-2012 at 08:11 PM.

  20. #1640
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Atlanta
    I could see the ACC losing out on their top football teams like FSU, VT, Clemson, Miami, and possible Pitt. I dont thin a league will be grabbing GT as long as Johnson is the coach. That is a gimmic O that just will be of the calibur that the super conferences will want. ACC will be a basketball first league again and football will be a 2nd tier league to the 4 team super conference tier of Big 10, Big 12, SEC, and Pac 12.

    The Big East will cease to exist as the ACC will soak up UCONN and Georgetown. Louisville will be fighting as hard as they can to get into the Big 12. They football just isnt worth mentioning though.

    All these conference changes are crazy and will get annoying as leagues/schools continue to whore themselves out for more money. There is no stopping this though as the this playoff system has started this snowball even moreso than it already was.

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