Page 81 of 101 FirstFirst ... 3171798081828391 ... LastLast
Results 1,601 to 1,620 of 2016
  1. #1601
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by Class of '94 View Post
    But again, the move would kill their non-revenue, olympic sports. Can you imagine their track and field or baseball teams traveling to Iowa for competitions; or even the states of Texas and Okla. That money received would from the move would have to be really good to compensate for travel expenses for those teams. And even if initially it was feasible, travel expenses would still continue to go up from year to year imo; and eventually FSU would still end up in similar financial crunch in the future like they are now. And in terms of filling FSU's stadium, similar to ACC baskeball now, I don't see fans packing the stadium out except for teams like Texas and Okla. So for two games, you get sellouts...I just don't see fans all that excited to see Kansas, KSU, Baylor, Iowa St, etc. That would be a "great" improvement on current conditions [I say this sarcastically].
    It's all about football, though, with a modicum of basketball involved. I believe ADs and school presidents when they say they are worried about travel for the kids, etc. But when decision time comes, the Board of Regents don'ts seem to here that. Look at Mizzou going to the SEC East as a prime example.

    Everything that FSU is saying and doing right now, including the fist shaking at the ACC for red herring issues, is running on the exact same rails as A&M's locomotive out of the Big XII. Right down to the Board of Regents cutting the legs out from under the athletic department's statements of commitment.

  2. #1602
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Tampa
    After making the single best decision of my life to attend Duke and the single worst decision of my life to attend law school in Tallahassee, I can tell you that 95% of their fans have NEVER considered themselves to be in the ACC. Despite their own above average but below superior athletic program, that has non-championship football these days, mediocre fan support, and a remote location, they have looked down on the rest of the conference since the beginning. They also feel that basketball is for losers (still do, even after this year).

    The average FSU fan's priorities, roughly in order, based on my personal observations and encounters since 1997 are as follows:

    1. Football
    2. Spring Football
    3. Football Recruiting
    4. Baseball
    5. Convincing themselves that Baseball is a major revenue sport that is only barely topped by football.
    6. Baseball recruiting
    7. Thumbing their nose at other ACC schools.
    8. Thumbing their nose at basketball
    9. Thumbing their nose at schools that care more about academics than athletics.
    10. Mocking people for watching/supporting women's sports. (They also have a conspiracy theory about ESPN and women's hoops that I don't even understand).
    11. Getting angry at those pesky academics at the school who are getting in the way of athletics.
    12. Thinking of ways to get rid of academics, because it just gets in the way of the university mission.

    These are the same people who are still mad at Myron Rolle for going to his Rhodes scholar interview (he was awarded a Rhodes) and showing up at halftime against Maryland because he was flying for his interview.

    As an FSU fan who is a lawyer told me, "we don't give the school money and pay for tickets for them to be smart, they just need to win." Another told me Rolle's career was a failure because he focused on his academics and his football career was a disappointment.

    They have an overinflated belief of their own value and they are a clear second to UF in Florida and always have been. Whether or not they are really a fit for the ACC can be debated, but they have never felt they were a fit. When I moved back to Tampa after graduating, their fans used to constantly complain that the local ABC affiliate was showing an ACC regional game with two ACC teams not named FSU instead of other games around the country THEY were more interested in. (As their program declined and they realized they were not going to go 8-0 every year, this complaint subsided some). Now, they are convinced that all of their football problems are a result of the ACC refs, ACC office keeping them down, and Swofford wanting them to lose.

    No one said this was a logical bunch. And their leadership has been poor for the past decade (their last president was a former football player whose only qualification for the job was being a former football player). Their Board of Trustees has been a joke since at least the mid 2000s when they started using their muscle to eject their iconic coach.

    Nothing would make me happier than if they left (and I don't think they will). Yes, I am biased, but I feel I have good reason.

    The only thing I despise more than FSU is Carolina. But Carolina is worthy of being my blood enemy and I consider them our equal, as Duke's rival would have to be. FSU, not so much.

    The ACC could get Louisville and their well run profitable athletic program to come in 5 seconds. I have a hard time thinking that Rutgers, or UConn or even Notre Dame is going to look down on us. Every other school in the ACC has always wanted to be an ACC school. (Well, except maybe Miami, but they have a whole other set of issues.) The ACC isn't going to collapse. And Duke will never leave the ACC absent it collapsing.

    Sorry for unloading, just wanted to give you my up close perspective.
    ___________________
    Mike Stein
    Trinity '97, Tent #1 '97
    Tampa

  3. #1603
    I agree with you on your points. I strongly believe that FSU's bigger picture is they want their own sports network ie longhorn network,etc. Thereby cashing in and really not splitting 3-2-or 1 tier revenue.

  4. #1604
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorp4me View Post
    Blah, blah, blah. A bunch of self-important people thinking their school is the coup de grace of everything. A bunch of saber rattling from people who might have power, but no brains hoping to get more to make up for their own financial windfall. People keep saying it, but South Carolina remains the only school dumb enough to leave the ACC. For the Big 12 no less??? Please!!! Freakin conference wasn't even sure it'd be here a few months ago. Best comment I read was the WVU fan claiming how happy they were they ended up in the Big 12 instead of the ACC. It's all a freakin joke with all of them hoping we won't take the clothes pins off our noses and smell the crap coming from over there.
    It was dumb for South Carolina to leave the ACC. However, it was not because of the conference they left, but more because they had no landing spot. Being independent in football and in the Metro in basketball set the athletic department so far back, they are just recovering now, 40 years later.

    If South Carolina and Georgia Tech had traded places in the 70s (instead of Tech just switching to the ACC), it would be a totally different story. Compare USC's athletic department to Clemson's now. Football and baseball are both better and basketball soon will be with Frank Martin in charge. Clemson is getting left behind because of the growing disparity in revenues between the two schools. Here is a Clemon blog's take:
    http://www.shakinthesouthland.com/20...-budgets-10-11

    And a view of the ACC:
    http://www.shakinthesouthland.com/20...-budgets-10-11

    The average SEC revenue is $89M vs. $63M for the ACC.

  5. #1605
    Quote Originally Posted by Pghdukie View Post
    I agree with you on your points. I strongly believe that FSU's bigger picture is they want their own sports network ie longhorn network,etc. Thereby cashing in and really not splitting 3-2-or 1 tier revenue.
    Again, outside of Tallahassee, who would even care or watch a FSU network? IMO Texas has bigger national appeal through all sports than FSU; and I don't see FSU having the same potential profit windfall that Texas will. It goes back to the point of FSU has above average football but not powerhouse status; and I can't see espn giving the same deal to FSU that Texas has. And if FSU has a money shortfall, then how and where will they find or justify the money to invest in starting a their own network. I don't dislike FSU (at least for the moment); but I'm just no so sure that a FSU network would be all that successful and I would hope that they do their due diligence if the Big 12 is floating the network possibility to FSU to entice them to change conferences and join the Big 12.

  6. #1606
    The "wtf? The Big 12 is a trash conference that almost imploded 12 months ago!" stuff is a bit over-the-top, don't you think? The Big12 recently agreed to a 13 year grant of rights, which basically means nobody is going anywhere for the foreseeable future. That wasn't in place when those 4 schools bolted, and WVU/TCU is at worst a wash with Missouri/A&M (though we'll miss the St. Louis TV sets). Nebraska is the only one that hurts, and that was more over hurt feelings than anything else.

    Also, in the last 12 months...
    --The Big12 dropped the worst commissioner in big college sports, eventually replacing him with one of the most respected ADs out there (Bowlsby negotiated the Pac 12 TV deal).
    --A Big12 player won the Heisman trophy.
    --A non-OU/non-Texas team lived in the Top 3 of NCAAFB polls all season, and arguably should have had a spot in the BCS Championship game.
    --New member WVU put up 70 points in the Orange Bowl.
    --Not that it matters, but three Big12 hoops teams stayed in Top 10 all year. Two made the Elite 8, and one made the title game.

  7. #1607
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham at heart
    Quote Originally Posted by TexHawk View Post
    The "wtf? The Big 12 is a trash conference that almost imploded 12 months ago!" stuff is a bit over-the-top, don't you think? The Big12 recently agreed to a 13 year grant of rights, which basically means nobody is going anywhere for the foreseeable future. That wasn't in place when those 4 schools bolted, and WVU/TCU is at worst a wash with Missouri/A&M (though we'll miss the St. Louis TV sets). Nebraska is the only one that hurts, and that was more over hurt feelings than anything else.

    Also, in the last 12 months...
    --The Big12 dropped the worst commissioner in big college sports, eventually replacing him with one of the most respected ADs out there (Bowlsby negotiated the Pac 12 TV deal).
    --A Big12 player won the Heisman trophy.
    --A non-OU/non-Texas team lived in the Top 3 of NCAAFB polls all season, and arguably should have had a spot in the BCS Championship game.
    --New member WVU put up 70 points in the Orange Bowl.
    --Not that it matters, but three Big12 hoops teams stayed in Top 10 all year. Two made the Elite 8, and one made the title game.

    Wait a minute... you can't say the loss of Mizzou doesn't hurt and then use them as a point to support the strength of the conference. You can't honestly believe that WVU/TCU is a wash with Mizzou/A&M. WVU is a middling football program from the worst AQ conference in the country. For TCU's status in football and what can be expected in the Big12, I refer you to Utah's inaugural season in the Pac12. I mean, these schools are nice programs, and every so often are going to put together a really good team that deserves to play in a big boy bowl, but in reality TCU is going to get housed in the Big12 for a while. So is WVU.

  8. #1608
    Quote Originally Posted by MulletMan View Post
    Wait a minute... you can't say the loss of Mizzou doesn't hurt and then use them as a point to support the strength of the conference. You can't honestly believe that WVU/TCU is a wash with Mizzou/A&M. WVU is a middling football program from the worst AQ conference in the country. For TCU's status in football and what can be expected in the Big12, I refer you to Utah's inaugural season in the Pac12. I mean, these schools are nice programs, and every so often are going to put together a really good team that deserves to play in a big boy bowl, but in reality TCU is going to get housed in the Big12 for a while. So is WVU.
    Fair point, but I wasn't really trying to use Missouri as support for the strength of the conference. Just that they did help keep the Big12 at the top of everyone's consciousness this last year.

    As far as comparing Mizzou/A&M to TCU/WVU, I don't really have the energy at the moment. Well, other than the fact that WVU has more BCS wins than Mizzou/A&M have appearances. (Combined, those two are 0-1). And Missouri hasn't won a conference championship in football in 43 years (20 years in hoops).

  9. #1609
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Atlantic League; forget Big 12 or ACC or $20M buyout, be BEST







    New Atlantic League:






    FSU, Miami, Georgia Tech, Duke, UNC, UVA, Maryland, Syracuse, Penn State, UConn






    Best in athletics, academics, exposure, revenue, could make their own network like Big Ten Network to show the best mens and womens basketball, football, baseball, softball, soccer, lacrosse, volleyball, field hockey, etc., in the nation, to half the US population and more than half the media and money, dominating forever.






    The schools need more money, but FSU paying $20M to make maybe $3M/year and increase travel time and costs, kill rivalries, scheduling, etc., in a worse academic and athletic conference isn't worth it, things would just get worse.






    Let's face if, FSU was the best in the nation in the 90s when they joined ACC and won 2 national titles, ACC had 9 teams and FSU was the only football power. Things went downhill when VT, Miami, and BC, joined, in basketball, football, overall sports, money, academics, scheduling, rivalries, everything! And now the ACC is dead last and chaos reigns nationwide. It's ideal to be best in basketball and other sports to prepare for NCAA tourneys, but football is the exception where it's best just to be a BCS conference but NOT the toughest. Big 10's won 1.5 titles in 44 years! FSU and Miami were great in football before 12 team ACC, VT played for a national title, Penn State's last great year was 94 right around when they joined Big 10.






    PAC 12 has the best TV contract in nation and they suck at football with just one traditional power unranked last year, and zero ranked basketball teams recently, they do dominate the entire coast though and are great in overall sports and academics. Big Ten Network gives B10/11/12 most money per school overall showing curling to poor dumb socialists freezing in decaying rusted ruins and empty cornfields full of $5000 houses that anyone with any sense or money left long ago. Atlantic League Network and A League with half the US population and more than half the media and money, best at all sports and academics, would double or triple all those contracts to triple or quadruple the A League school's revenue.






    NCSU wants out from the shadow of Duke and UNC at least twice as much as Texas A&M wanted to leave Texas. Clemson just like South Carolina and 7-9 other schools wants to get away from the dominance of the NC schools, corrupt Chapel Hill refs, and John "Clemson deserves the death penalty but UNC is squeaky clean" Swofford who makes sure to hire NC born and bred and grad and resident refs who make sure UNC gets the most FTs every year even when dead last of 12. BC has been dominated in all sports except ice hockey because nobody else in ACC plays it, instead of bringing in New England or MA or Boston or even Chestnut Hill for the ACC, BC has become like Emerson or Northeastern, completely irrelevant. Wake wants to compete instead of be dominated and historically second worst in football history, and wants to be the academic leader of a stable league like Vandy, Duke, Northwestern, Stanford, instead of going downhill in usnews rankings while watching Vandy which was similarly ranked a decade ago shoot to the top with a great 13% acceptance rate right behind Duke's 12%. VT has been dominated in all sports except football and even there wants to play for a national title like in 99.






    All 12 or the other 7 majority schools should vote to dissolve the ACC instead of paying a dime in exit fees, to triple its revenue per school and be the best in the nation forever with Penn State, Syracuse, and UConn. Penn State fans hate abandoning their eastern rivals and recruiting region being 11th in midwestern Big 10/11/12, they never played any B10 schools before joining only playing schools in the new Atlantic League. Paterno tried to form an eastern allsports league before being turned down by BOTH the ACC and Big East and joining B10 as last desperate option which hurt them. UNC has benefitted from ACC being in and around one state and ACC tourneys in all sports usually being in NC, since ACC MBB tourney has been in NC 48 of 59 years and been won by NC schools 50 of 59 years because the best players and coaches wanted the unfair advantage and fan support and other schools stopped caring. First 22 ACC MBB tourneys were in NC and 21 were won by NC teams, first time it moved was to DC where nearby UVA won its only title ever. Reason is UNC and NCSU fans buy tix from fans of losing teams so could have 5/9 of the fans even for their first round game and 8/9 for the title game, this goes for every sport. Rest of ACC can force fairness and change however, offer UNC the 10th spot telling them either Clemson or BC or NCSU will get it otherwise and UNC would be forced to be the redheaded outlier in a worse league with zero rivals like Big East and kill all their sports and academics. Swofford resigns, Bobby Bowden can be A League commissioner. Atlantic League tourneys in all sports can move between NYC, DC, maybe NC, Atlanta, FL, every year. This is for the best for all involved.








    5 ACC and 6 Big East football schools would add Memphis to make 12. 2 Big East divisions balanced in both football and basketball:

    Big East South: South Florida, Clemson, NCSU, Memphis, Wake, VT

    Big East North: Louisville, Cincinnati, WVU, Pitt, Rutgers, BC


    8 former Big East basketball schools are all catholic: Depaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, St Johns, Seton Hall, Villanova, Notre Dame (could replace ND if poached by Big 10 with St Louis if needed)


    Big 10: should go back to original 10, or replace PSU with Notre Dame and rename itself Big 12

    Big 12: should go back to 12, or rename itself Big 10

    PAC 10: should go back to 10, or stay at PAC 12

  10. #1610
    Quote Originally Posted by TexHawk View Post
    Fair point, but I wasn't really trying to use Missouri as support for the strength of the conference. Just that they did help keep the Big12 at the top of everyone's consciousness this last year.

    As far as comparing Mizzou/A&M to TCU/WVU, I don't really have the energy at the moment. Well, other than the fact that WVU has more BCS wins than Mizzou/A&M have appearances. (Combined, those two are 0-1). And Missouri hasn't won a conference championship in football in 43 years (20 years in hoops).
    I think football-program-wise, TCU/WVU are on par with MU/ATM, which is to say, they may make some noise in conference, and will be top 25-esque, but aren't anymore national title contenders than are MU/ATM.

    They also don't have the TV sets that MU/ATM have. They were added because they were readily available. TCU first, to replace ATM, because we couldn't allow our TV contracts to come into jeopardy and then WVU to replace MU, for the same reason. They were the best of what we could get.

    The grant of media rights and new TV deals and addition of Bowlsby have solidified the conference's standing. Whether it's realistic or useful to target ACC malcontents, I have no idea. DeLoss Dodds seemed clear that there's no basis to the Fla. State/Clemson stuff as of now. For now, I look forward to another year of playing everyone (no matter the pain) in football and a true double round robin in basketball.

  11. #1611
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North of Chicago

    For the love of god

    Not this again . . .

    1. Penn State is not leaving the Big 10.

    2. That conference is suicide for all its members.

    I know that pointing those two things out won't stop you from keeping to push this fairy tale, but I have to try.


    Quote Originally Posted by laxbluedevil View Post
    Atlantic League; forget Big 12 or ACC or $20M buyout, be BEST







    New Atlantic League:






    FSU, Miami, Georgia Tech, Duke, UNC, UVA, Maryland, Syracuse, Penn State, UConn






    Best in athletics, academics, exposure, revenue, could make their own network like Big Ten Network to show the best mens and womens basketball, football, baseball, softball, soccer, lacrosse, volleyball, field hockey, etc., in the nation, to half the US population and more than half the media and money, dominating forever.






    The schools need more money, but FSU paying $20M to make maybe $3M/year and increase travel time and costs, kill rivalries, scheduling, etc., in a worse academic and athletic conference isn't worth it, things would just get worse.






    Let's face if, FSU was the best in the nation in the 90s when they joined ACC and won 2 national titles, ACC had 9 teams and FSU was the only football power. Things went downhill when VT, Miami, and BC, joined, in basketball, football, overall sports, money, academics, scheduling, rivalries, everything! And now the ACC is dead last and chaos reigns nationwide. It's ideal to be best in basketball and other sports to prepare for NCAA tourneys, but football is the exception where it's best just to be a BCS conference but NOT the toughest. Big 10's won 1.5 titles in 44 years! FSU and Miami were great in football before 12 team ACC, VT played for a national title, Penn State's last great year was 94 right around when they joined Big 10.






    PAC 12 has the best TV contract in nation and they suck at football with just one traditional power unranked last year, and zero ranked basketball teams recently, they do dominate the entire coast though and are great in overall sports and academics. Big Ten Network gives B10/11/12 most money per school overall showing curling to poor dumb socialists freezing in decaying rusted ruins and empty cornfields full of $5000 houses that anyone with any sense or money left long ago. Atlantic League Network and A League with half the US population and more than half the media and money, best at all sports and academics, would double or triple all those contracts to triple or quadruple the A League school's revenue.






    NCSU wants out from the shadow of Duke and UNC at least twice as much as Texas A&M wanted to leave Texas. Clemson just like South Carolina and 7-9 other schools wants to get away from the dominance of the NC schools, corrupt Chapel Hill refs, and John "Clemson deserves the death penalty but UNC is squeaky clean" Swofford who makes sure to hire NC born and bred and grad and resident refs who make sure UNC gets the most FTs every year even when dead last of 12. BC has been dominated in all sports except ice hockey because nobody else in ACC plays it, instead of bringing in New England or MA or Boston or even Chestnut Hill for the ACC, BC has become like Emerson or Northeastern, completely irrelevant. Wake wants to compete instead of be dominated and historically second worst in football history, and wants to be the academic leader of a stable league like Vandy, Duke, Northwestern, Stanford, instead of going downhill in usnews rankings while watching Vandy which was similarly ranked a decade ago shoot to the top with a great 13% acceptance rate right behind Duke's 12%. VT has been dominated in all sports except football and even there wants to play for a national title like in 99.






    All 12 or the other 7 majority schools should vote to dissolve the ACC instead of paying a dime in exit fees, to triple its revenue per school and be the best in the nation forever with Penn State, Syracuse, and UConn. Penn State fans hate abandoning their eastern rivals and recruiting region being 11th in midwestern Big 10/11/12, they never played any B10 schools before joining only playing schools in the new Atlantic League. Paterno tried to form an eastern allsports league before being turned down by BOTH the ACC and Big East and joining B10 as last desperate option which hurt them. UNC has benefitted from ACC being in and around one state and ACC tourneys in all sports usually being in NC, since ACC MBB tourney has been in NC 48 of 59 years and been won by NC schools 50 of 59 years because the best players and coaches wanted the unfair advantage and fan support and other schools stopped caring. First 22 ACC MBB tourneys were in NC and 21 were won by NC teams, first time it moved was to DC where nearby UVA won its only title ever. Reason is UNC and NCSU fans buy tix from fans of losing teams so could have 5/9 of the fans even for their first round game and 8/9 for the title game, this goes for every sport. Rest of ACC can force fairness and change however, offer UNC the 10th spot telling them either Clemson or BC or NCSU will get it otherwise and UNC would be forced to be the redheaded outlier in a worse league with zero rivals like Big East and kill all their sports and academics. Swofford resigns, Bobby Bowden can be A League commissioner. Atlantic League tourneys in all sports can move between NYC, DC, maybe NC, Atlanta, FL, every year. This is for the best for all involved.








    5 ACC and 6 Big East football schools would add Memphis to make 12. 2 Big East divisions balanced in both football and basketball:

    Big East South: South Florida, Clemson, NCSU, Memphis, Wake, VT

    Big East North: Louisville, Cincinnati, WVU, Pitt, Rutgers, BC


    8 former Big East basketball schools are all catholic: Depaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, St Johns, Seton Hall, Villanova, Notre Dame (could replace ND if poached by Big 10 with St Louis if needed)


    Big 10: should go back to original 10, or replace PSU with Notre Dame and rename itself Big 12

    Big 12: should go back to 12, or rename itself Big 10

    PAC 10: should go back to 10, or stay at PAC 12

  12. #1612
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    And, FSU, if you don't like an ACC where the North Carolina schools have influence, I am sure you will absolutely lo-o-o-ve the Big 12, where Texas and OU, or their Boards, or the wealthy oilmen in those states call the shots.
    Exactly. I find it ludicrously tragicomic that anyone is talking about leaving a stable conference in order to join a conference with Texas in it. Texas. Four schools have left that conference to get the heck away from Texas. Four.

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  13. #1613
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by MulletMan View Post
    Wait a minute... you can't say the loss of Mizzou doesn't hurt and then use them as a point to support the strength of the conference. You can't honestly believe that WVU/TCU is a wash with Mizzou/A&M. WVU is a middling football program from the worst AQ conference in the country. For TCU's status in football and what can be expected in the Big12, I refer you to Utah's inaugural season in the Pac12. I mean, these schools are nice programs, and every so often are going to put together a really good team that deserves to play in a big boy bowl, but in reality TCU is going to get housed in the Big12 for a while. So is WVU.
    I just don't get how fans of ACC schools can with a straight face denigrate what West Virginia and TCU have done in the BCS era. To call WVU middling is to call the whole of the ACC something worse.

    West Virginia has won more BCS games then the entire ACC (3-2), and TCU's won as many as any ACC school. I don't disagree that the ACC is a better football conference than the Big East, and no one is arguing that WVU and TCU have more supporters or are more attractive from a marketing perspective than A&M and Mizzou. But based on results in the BCS era? The Big XII upgraded in strength. I'm not sure that's arguable.

    I think the ACC has an advantage in its history and academics that will be an asset to prevent it from being ripped apart. I'm also not sure FSU needs to be a part of that future, if the ACC's core (along with Va Tech) can continue to put on a united front. But any argument that tries to put the ACC on the level with the Big XII from a football perspective just doesn't hold water. Example #1 is the Conference Championship Game attendance figures. Geography (well, and academics, if they mattered to the 'Noles in this debate) are the *ONLY* good reasons for FSU not to jump if they get an invite [*SEE EDIT*]. There is a lot of blame to go around as to why the ACC has struggled nationally in football . There is some merit to the idea that it is a deep conference, and that it's difficult to get out without less than 2 losses. If only non-conference play and bowl game results actually bore that out.

    If you are Florida St. comparing yourself to SEC and Big XII football powerhouses you believe you are on par with, the ESPN/ACC contract pretty much sucks. I don't doubt that FSU probably has too high of an opinion of itself, but I'm not too sure it's hard to understand their potential motivation in light of this new contract.


    Edited to add: I overstated that FSU has no other reason to stay -- I meant that from an FSU perspective, considering the money difference. I think they have lots of reasons to stay. I'm not sure I care if they leave, though, and they'd be fun to have in the Big XII, certainly.
    Last edited by A-Tex Devil; 05-14-2012 at 02:11 PM.

  14. #1614
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by A-Tex Devil View Post
    Geography (well, and academics, if they mattered to the 'Noles in this debate) are the *ONLY* good reasons for FSU not to jump if they get an invite. .

    I would argue that "stability" is just as important as "geography." And the Big 12 is hardly the Rock of Gibraltar.

    sagegrouse

  15. #1615
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by A-Tex Devil View Post
    Geography (well, and academics, if they mattered to the 'Noles in this debate) are the *ONLY* good reasons for FSU not to jump if they get an invite.
    The other good reason is if FSU wants to win national championships in football, it is going to be easier for them to do that from the ACC than the Big 12. And if they are struggling to get out of the ACC with fewer than three losses, what's going to happen to them if they join the Big 12? They will risk dropping to second-tier status in their own conference, especially if they finish their first Big 12 season around .500, a real possibility given their ACC results in recent years.

    It wouldn't surprise me if FSU goes. Still, a bigger payday isn't going to solve FSU's problems, nor will a tougher schedule. The move is not without its risks.

  16. #1616
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by jafarr1 View Post
    The other good reason is if FSU wants to win national championships in football, it is going to be easier for them to do that from the ACC than the Big 12. And if they are struggling to get out of the ACC with fewer than three losses, what's going to happen to them if they join the Big 12? They will risk dropping to second-tier status in their own conference, especially if they finish their first Big 12 season around .500, a real possibility given their ACC results in recent years.

    It wouldn't surprise me if FSU goes. Still, a bigger payday isn't going to solve FSU's problems, nor will a tougher schedule. The move is not without its risks.
    Sure. But that same logic (which I agree is sound) didn't make a difference for the ex-Big XII schools either (other than perhaps Colorado).

    And like A&M, the move is going to do nothing to solve the substance of FSU's management and financial woes. Yeah, they'll get more money, but will it get applied right? And what are the consequential costs of these moves that aren't considered until after it's done? Teams that are jumping (maybe excusing Nebraska and Colorado) seem to be jumping for fairly short-sighted reasons without any concept of the term "cyclical."

    So anyway, I am not saying FSU should jump, or that it will be better off. I don't know that I even agree with that. But stepping into the shoes of their fans, it seems pretty enticing. And the more and more I look at that ACC contract, the more and more I understand why the football schools are upset about it.

  17. #1617
    Quote Originally Posted by jafarr1 View Post
    The other good reason is if FSU wants to win national championships in football, it is going to be easier for them to do that from the ACC than the Big 12.
    I don't think that is necessarily true in the new world of a playoff. In one proposed version, it's only conference champs in the Top 6, and if there aren't four of those, take the top at-large. With the relative weakness of the rest of the ACC (compared to B10, Big12, Pac12, SEC), is FSU guaranteed to make the playoff if it wins the ACC? They would probably need to go undefeated in conference and beat Florida.

  18. #1618
    Quote Originally Posted by TexHawk View Post
    I don't think that is necessarily true in the new world of a playoff. In one proposed version, it's only conference champs in the Top 6, and if there aren't four of those, take the top at-large. With the relative weakness of the rest of the ACC (compared to B10, Big12, Pac12, SEC), is FSU guaranteed to make the playoff if it wins the ACC? They would probably need to go undefeated in conference and beat Florida.
    Who could FSU leap frog to get an at large bid into the BCS if they didn't win the Big 12 conference? I'm sorry; but I don't see FSU as currently constituted (and based on previous performance in the ACC) being an at large bid. I don't see them regularly beating Okla or Texas imo; and FSU would be in a dogfight (at this point) with the 2nd-3rd best teams of the SEC (Alabama or LSU) and Big 10 (Ohio ST) for an at large bid. FSU would have to go undefeated imo regardless of what conference it was in to be in the BCS championship imo.

    And wouldn't FSU eventually run into the same financial problems trying to compete in a conference where a large majoirty of the schools are in multiple time zones? I would imagine that expenses for non-revenue, Olympic sports would go out dramatically when talking about going to the Texas teams, Okla teams, Kansas and Iowa, for example.

    And again, I contend that the Big 12 conference is not that much different from the ACC in football if you take away Texas and Okla. I think outside of those two schools, the ACC is very competitive with the Big 12; and as I said in a previous post, if Miami and FSU had remained the dominant football powers the league thought they would be, the ACC would be right there with the Big 12 imo.

  19. #1619
    Quote Originally Posted by Class of '94 View Post
    Who could FSU leap frog to get an at large bid into the BCS if they didn't win the Big 12 conference? I'm sorry; but I don't see FSU as currently constituted (and based on previous performance in the ACC) being an at large bid. I don't see them regularly beating Okla or Texas imo; and FSU would be in a dogfight (at this point) with the 2nd-3rd best teams of the SEC (Alabama or LSU) and Big 10 (Ohio ST) for an at large bid. FSU would have to go undefeated imo regardless of what conference it was in to be in the BCS championship imo.
    Oh, I didn't mean to suggest that it would be *easy* to get to that theoretical playoff. Far from it. Just projecting a future 12-1 FSU team* against a Big12 schedule that included Texas, OU, OSU, K-State, WVU would be in the conversation most years. Just not sure the BCS numbers from a 12-1 ACC championship run would put them closer to the playoff (as the original poster suggested).

    * Truly a hypothetical, because I have little knowledge on what FSU's future looks like, ACC or no ACC. But let's also not pretend that Texas and OU are going to be Top 5 juggernauts ever year either. The last two seasons should show that, especially with UT. (They went 4-5 in the Big12 in 2011).

  20. #1620
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham at heart
    Quote Originally Posted by A-Tex Devil View Post
    I just don't get how fans of ACC schools can with a straight face denigrate what West Virginia and TCU have done in the BCS era. To call WVU middling is to call the whole of the ACC something worse.
    And? What ACC program, outside of perhaps VT, can be referred to as anything more than middling right now? Florida State? Because they appear to be on an upswing? Certainly not Clemson. Nor UNC. GT? Hah. Please don't make me continue. ACC football is pretty bad, man. I never said anything to the contrary.

    Maybe middling was a poor word choice. Average program at the AQ BCS level with potential for a good-to-great season here and there (great being 2 losses or fewer, a conference title if the chips fall right) but with equal potential for a .500 or worse season.

    Yay. TCU won a BCS game. Whooop tee freekin do! Again, while I pull for these guys to blow up the BCS each year, the first data point (Utah) indicates that the jump to a full time BCS conference schedule is bigger than some may think.

Similar Threads

  1. Baseball Realignment
    By SoCalDukeFan in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 07-06-2011, 11:36 PM
  2. Big East Realignment
    By johnb in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 04-23-2011, 09:29 PM
  3. The Kyrie Irving Toe Vigil
    By diveonthefloor in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 1507
    Last Post: 02-05-2011, 06:25 PM
  4. NCAA Conference Realignment
    By A-Tex Devil in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 78
    Last Post: 03-04-2010, 05:16 PM
  5. Sentinel: 5 Years After Realignment: Are Schools Better Off?
    By gotham devil in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-04-2008, 11:28 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •