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  1. #1481
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    Feb 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by El_Diablo View Post
    The DBR Homepage links to this article and hones in on this quote: “I’m very foolish. I assumed — and it was a rash assumption on my part — that our friends over in the state capital would want to continue playing us. It turns out they didn’t think we were as much of a rival as we thought of them.”

    DBR then questions: [D]o we understand correctly here? Did he expect the Texas legislature to force Texas to continue to play A&M? And was that part of his decision making?

    The answer, I think, is clearly no. It says "capital," not "Capitol," and the state capital of Texas is Austin. So he was saying "our friends over in Austin"...meaning the University of Texas. Even if the words were switched to refer to Texas A&M's people in the legislature, the context provided by the rest of the sentence wouldn't make sense. It would have to read "our friends over in the state Capitol would have them continue playing us" or "our friends in the state Capitol would make them continue playing us" or something like that.

    Anyway, I think the assumption may have been optimistic in hindsight, but I don't necessarily think it's "rash" or "foolish" to think that rivalries may be preserved across leagues. For example, Louisville and Kentucky are fierce rivals despite playing in different leagues. There might be scheduling challenges in football because there are fewer nonconference scheduling opportunities, but it's still doable. USC schedules Notre Dame every year. Florida and Florida State face off annually. There's nothing really stopping UT from playing Texas A&M regularly, other than spite. Now, perhaps it's foolish to think UT wouldn't act spitefully in deciding not to play A&M as some sort of punishment for leaving. But if the fans/boosters clamor for it enough, then they can always start putting each other on the schedule...perhaps when cooler heads prevail a few years down the road.

    Just to clarify for everyone, including the main page, Bill Byrne refuses to say The University of Texas or Longhorns in any of his alumni communications. He always - always - says "our friends in the state Capitol." I guess he is trying to stay diplomatic by not saying "tu" but it comes across as cute at best, petty at worst.

    I won't get into the reasons why UT (or any Big XII school) isn't continuing the rivalry. Go back a few pages on is thread and I believe I articulated them. But it's a lot more than spite, and the Texas alumni generally support the decision. The general consensus is that A&M made its bed and it's too bad the rivalry isnt continuing. But there are better things on the horizon - for both schools - and for UT that doesnt require playing A&M.

  2. #1482
    Quote Originally Posted by A-Tex Devil View Post
    Just to clarify for everyone, including the main page, Bill Byrne refuses to say The University of Texas or Longhorns in any of his alumni communications. He always - always - says "our friends in the state Capitol." I guess he is trying to stay diplomatic by not saying "tu" but it comes across as cute at best, petty at worst.

    I won't get into the reasons why UT (or any Big XII school) isn't continuing the rivalry. Go back a few pages on is thread and I believe I articulated them. But it's a lot more than spite, and the Texas alumni generally support the decision. The general consensus is that A&M made its bed and it's too bad the rivalry isnt continuing. But there are better things on the horizon - for both schools - and for UT that doesnt require playing A&M.
    A-TexDevil, you've always shown to be pretty well informed on matters dealing with the Big 12. Do you (or anyone else that would like to chime in) think the Big 12 might expand further this summer and look to bring in Louisville? I know C-USA and tje MWC are merging and it appears that could be done by June from reports; but I'm thinking there still could be shuffling among the power conferences this summer with Lousiville, ND, Rutgers and UConn still in play.

  3. #1483
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    Quote Originally Posted by Class of '94 View Post
    A-TexDevil, you've always shown to be pretty well informed on matters dealing with the Big 12. Do you (or anyone else that would like to chime in) think the Big 12 might expand further this summer and look to bring in Louisville? I know C-USA and tje MWC are merging and it appears that could be done by June from reports; but I'm thinking there still could be shuffling among the power conferences this summer with Lousiville, ND, Rutgers and UConn still in play.
    From what I've read, the Big XII is split on expanding. Some schools think it should expand to 12, others are happy at 10. But, truthfully, I kinda hope things have settled down now. Amazingly, what expansion has actually done is bring more teams to the table -- kinda the opposite of what was initially expected. Now, we'll have to see how long the Big East continues to have a seat, but I'm not sure anyone is looking to mess with that right now.

  4. #1484
    I think the best chance for continued Big 12 expansion is Louisville and ND (sans football). Without ND football, I don't really see the point, but some disturbing amalgam of ND non-football athletics and BYU football has been discussed (part-time Catholics and part-time Mormons? Mortholics?).

    As I understand it, Louisville football coaches were recruiting kids and telling them that they'd be in the Big 12. Maybe jumping the gun, because I agree that the conference is split on further expansion. But the Big East can't be long for the world and ND and Louisville, along with Rutgers, UConn and South Florida, have to be eyeing exit strategies.

  5. #1485
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    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonandblue View Post
    I think the best chance for continued Big 12 expansion is Louisville and ND (sans football). Without ND football, I don't really see the point, but some disturbing amalgam of ND non-football athletics and BYU football has been discussed (part-time Catholics and part-time Mormons? Mortholics?).

    As I understand it, Louisville football coaches were recruiting kids and telling them that they'd be in the Big 12. Maybe jumping the gun, because I agree that the conference is split on further expansion. But the Big East can't be long for the world and ND and Louisville, along with Rutgers, UConn and South Florida, have to be eyeing exit strategies.
    I have a hard time seeing Notre Dame's non-football sports in the Big XII. The Big XII hardly *plays* any of Notre Dame's non-football sports.

  6. #1486
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    I have a hard time seeing Notre Dame's non-football sports in the Big XII. The Big XII hardly *plays* any of Notre Dame's non-football sports.
    I've spoken several times with a fairly prominent UT media type who also went to ND law school, and he said no way no how that Notre Dame ever ends up in the Big XII at least for football.

    That said, the "scuttlebutt" for lack of a better term that has been leaked from "Big Cigar" types (also the alias from where a ton of these rumors are sourced) at UT is that UT and Notre Dame's athletic department are in violent agreement with their view of what the expansion "end game" is going to be. What that is exactly, I am not sure. This particular source has been nails on a lot of other things, but my impression is that any UT/ND/Big XII discussion is preliminary or even wishful at best. It's being presented, however, as something that is actually already in the works, which I'm not sure is the case.

    I can understand how ND might fit in the Big XII in non-football sports. The sports you probably are referring to (hockey, lacrosse) could probably find homes in one of the sport specific conferences hockey and lacrosse have. But I also have a hard time believing this will happen. If Texas and ND were ever aligned, I think it would be as independents, in a different conference (15 and 16 in the Big Ten?), or possibly, and most likely, as annual rivals with the ND at Stanford T-Giving game being replaced by ND at UT.

    But I'd be fairly surprised to see the Big XII do anything this summer. I think people want to see whether the Big East can stay at the grown ups table when the BCS contract is up, and if not, pick off whatever meat may be left on that bone at that time.

  7. #1487
    Quote Originally Posted by A-Tex Devil View Post
    I've spoken several times with a fairly prominent UT media type who also went to ND law school, and he said no way no how that Notre Dame ever ends up in the Big XII at least for football.

    That said, the "scuttlebutt" for lack of a better term that has been leaked from "Big Cigar" types (also the alias from where a ton of these rumors are sourced) at UT is that UT and Notre Dame's athletic department are in violent agreement with their view of what the expansion "end game" is going to be. What that is exactly, I am not sure. This particular source has been nails on a lot of other things, but my impression is that any UT/ND/Big XII discussion is preliminary or even wishful at best. It's being presented, however, as something that is actually already in the works, which I'm not sure is the case.

    I can understand how ND might fit in the Big XII in non-football sports. The sports you probably are referring to (hockey, lacrosse) could probably find homes in one of the sport specific conferences hockey and lacrosse have. But I also have a hard time believing this will happen. If Texas and ND were ever aligned, I think it would be as independents, in a different conference (15 and 16 in the Big Ten?), or possibly, and most likely, as annual rivals with the ND at Stanford T-Giving game being replaced by ND at UT.

    But I'd be fairly surprised to see the Big XII do anything this summer. I think people want to see whether the Big East can stay at the grown ups table when the BCS contract is up, and if not, pick off whatever meat may be left on that bone at that time.
    I know we've hashed this over and over, but how serious at this point do you think ND and some combination of Rutugers/UConn as the 15th and 16th members of the ACC is?

  8. #1488
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    Quote Originally Posted by Class of '94 View Post
    I know we've hashed this over and over, but how serious at this point do you think ND and some combination of Rutugers/UConn as the 15th and 16th members of the ACC is?
    I don't really know. I kinda hope we (the ACC) don't bring in UConn or Rutgers for multiple reasons. But I imagine if Notre Dame came knocking the ACC would have to consider it to balance things out. Although in non-football sports, perhaps one could find a way to have a 15 team conference?

  9. #1489
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    The Butler Bulldogs are moving on up to become the replacement 13th team (for Temple) in the mathematically inaccurate Atlantic-10.

    http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...tic-10-2013-14
    Just be you. You is enough. - K, 4/5/10, 0:13.8 to play, 60-59 Duke.

    You're all jealous hypocrites. - Titus on Laettner

    You see those guys? Animals. They're animals. - SIU Coach Chris Lowery, on Duke

  10. #1490
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    It is hard for me to keep track of how many teams are where. Now, lets see, the Big 10 has 12, the Big 12 has 10, and now the Atlantic 10 will have 13? Now, the PAC X, where X is number between 2 and 20 (at least so far), does it right, or at least they used to. They change the name of the conference to the number actually in the conference. I, for one, have no idea how many teams there are (didn't Colorado join up?). and, like many, don't really care.
    Very confusing to simple souls such as I who didn't attend Duke!

  11. #1491
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    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by pfrduke View Post
    The Butler Bulldogs are moving on up to become the replacement 13th team (for Temple) in the mathematically inaccurate Atlantic-10.

    http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...tic-10-2013-14
    Geographically inaccurate as well.

    So the Atlantic-10 will have 13 teams, the Big Ten will have 12 teams, the Big XII will have 10 teams (subject to change without notice), the Pacific-12 will have teams in Colorado and Utah, Missouri has just joined the SEC-East, and the Big East will stretch from Providence to San Diego.

  12. #1492
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    Thats funny -- we had exactly the same posting time!

  13. #1493
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    Arlington, VA
    If you like geographically inaccurate conferences, you would love D1 lacrosse, where the Eastern College Athletic Conference includes Ohio State, Michigan, Air Force and Denver as well as Loyola, Fairfield, Hobart and Bellarmine (which is in Kentucky, in case you were curious).

  14. #1494
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    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by MCFinARL View Post
    If you like geographically inaccurate conferences, you would love D1 lacrosse, where the Eastern College Athletic Conference includes Ohio State, Michigan, Air Force and Denver as well as Loyola, Fairfield, Hobart and Bellarmine (which is in Kentucky, in case you were curious).
    So there's exactly no overlap between the ECAC lacrosse membership and the ECAC hockey membership? Weird.

  15. #1495
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    Just when you thought we might have a year off....

    The Big XII goes and hires a Larry Scott minion as their new commissioner in Stanford AD Bob Bowlsby.

    And this out of Clemson.... FSU, Clemson, Maryland and Louisville to the Big XII rumors.

    I'll take all of this with a grain of salt for now, but I never thought the SEC would bring in A&M and I really didn't believe that the Big XII would stay together (although I was happy that it did). So let's just say I've learned my lesson.

    With the new 4 team playoff format being bandied about, this isn't a completely ridiculous rumor. Slightly to very ridiculous? Yes. But not completely.

    Are we gearing up for Round 3?

  16. #1496
    Quote Originally Posted by A-Tex Devil View Post
    The Big XII goes and hires a Larry Scott minion as their new commissioner in Stanford AD Bob Bowlsby.

    And this out of Clemson.... FSU, Clemson, Maryland and Louisville to the Big XII rumors.

    I'll take all of this with a grain of salt for now, but I never thought the SEC would bring in A&M and I really didn't believe that the Big XII would stay together (although I was happy that it did). So let's just say I've learned my lesson.

    With the new 4 team playoff format being bandied about, this isn't a completely ridiculous rumor. Slightly to very ridiculous? Yes. But not completely.

    Are we gearing up for Round 3?
    I could see FSU and Clemson becasuse of teh football considerations and Maryland (from what I've heard previoulsy) need money for its AD department; yet, it would not make any sense from a travel-cost perspective for their non-revenue sports teams. Would these schools be able to offest those expenses and still profit with a move to the Big 12 conference? It doesn't seem likely; but if the revenue projections are as accurate as this link is proposing, then maybe but I doubt the accuracy of those projections.

    That said, I could see Louisville leaving for the Big 12 this summer (at least announcing they're leaving); and then go after a possible Cincinatti team. That would make more regional sense; but who knows what will happen at this point.

  17. #1497
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    Dev11 is offline Commissioner of Statistics, DBR Podcast
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    Quote Originally Posted by Class of '94 View Post
    ...That would make more regional sense...
    Boise State joined the Big East, so you can forget this bit of logic from here on out.

  18. #1498
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    Quote Originally Posted by Class of '94 View Post
    I could see FSU and Clemson becasuse of teh football considerations and Maryland (from what I've heard previoulsy) need money for its AD department; yet, it would not make any sense from a travel-cost perspective for their non-revenue sports teams. Would these schools be able to offest those expenses and still profit with a move to the Big 12 conference? It doesn't seem likely; but if the revenue projections are as accurate as this link is proposing, then maybe but I doubt the accuracy of those projections.

    That said, I could see Louisville leaving for the Big 12 this summer (at least announcing they're leaving); and then go after a possible Cincinatti team. That would make more regional sense; but who knows what will happen at this point.
    Agree with all of this other than Cincy to the Big XII. That would be a desperation move for the Big XII similar to the moves that the Big East is making now.

    I am just catching up on all of this scuttlebutt today (apparently it's been out there for a while, but has gained steam at the Big XII meetings), but read up on some rumors that are coming out of the Big XII meetings that there is unanimous approval to go to allow the new commissioner to bring in to more "pre-approved" teams. Teams I see rumored in play for this are Lousiville, Miami (not Maryland), FSU and Clemson. The ADs met with at least one representative that sits on the Athletic Advisory Committee from a school not in the Big XII at some point yesterday as well via conference call. That obviously could be anything.

    One tangential, but not unrelated question: Is Lacrosse a revenue generating sport for the ACC schools yet?

  19. #1499
    Quote Originally Posted by A-Tex Devil View Post
    Agree with all of this other than Cincy to the Big XII. That would be a desperation move for the Big XII similar to the moves that the Big East is making now.

    I am just catching up on all of this scuttlebutt today (apparently it's been out there for a while, but has gained steam at the Big XII meetings), but read up on some rumors that are coming out of the Big XII meetings that there is unanimous approval to go to allow the new commissioner to bring in to more "pre-approved" teams. Teams I see rumored in play for this are Lousiville, Miami (not Maryland), FSU and Clemson. The ADs met with at least one representative that sits on the Athletic Advisory Committee from a school not in the Big XII at some point yesterday as well via conference call. That obviously could be anything.

    One tangential, but not unrelated question: Is Lacrosse a revenue generating sport for the ACC schools yet?
    Sorry for the typos from my earlier post. Miami would make more sense since it "was" a traditional football power. I wonder if that school being referenced is Louisville since they've been fairly open about looking elsewhere.

    Don't know about lacrosse but am curious as to why that would matter since none of the ACC teams being reported (if you replace MD with Miami) have lacrosse teams.

  20. #1500
    Quote Originally Posted by A-Tex Devil View Post
    Agree with all of this other than Cincy to the Big XII. That would be a desperation move for the Big XII similar to the moves that the Big East is making now.

    I am just catching up on all of this scuttlebutt today (apparently it's been out there for a while, but has gained steam at the Big XII meetings), but read up on some rumors that are coming out of the Big XII meetings that there is unanimous approval to go to allow the new commissioner to bring in to more "pre-approved" teams. Teams I see rumored in play for this are Lousiville, Miami (not Maryland), FSU and Clemson. The ADs met with at least one representative that sits on the Athletic Advisory Committee from a school not in the Big XII at some point yesterday as well via conference call. That obviously could be anything.
    So much for a quiet summer. The irony in all of this was that unhappiness in the Big 12 is what triggered all of this movement to begin with and now it looks like they're trying to be proactive in securing their future. I could see those reported schools researching the possibility as part of their due diligence in financial options for the AD department; but I just don't think the numbers will work out. That being said, maybe this potential new round of movement may finally scare ND to join the ACC if Louisville and a non-ACC school (hopefully) joins the Big 12.
    Last edited by throatybeard; 05-03-2012 at 03:32 PM. Reason: fix tags

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