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  1. #1381
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area
    It's official: Missouri to the SEC.

    And ESPN riffs...

    -jk

  2. #1382
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    And ESPN riffs...
    There are several funny and insightful lines in that ESPN article:

    Texas and the rest of the Big 12 believe that West Virginia will fill Missouri's slots in the master schedule in 2012, just as TCU stepped in for Texas A&M. The Big East believes that West Virginia will live by its agreement and remain in the conference for two more seasons. The judicial system will decide what happens. Prediction -- the money spent on attorneys' fees would fund several non-revenue sports.
    And, as for Mizzu's chance of football success in the SEC, the column says this:

    And now the Tigers, visions of long-term security in their heard, are stepping up their level of competition. The Tigers are like the Midwestern executive who takes a job in New York because it pays more. Only when he gets to Manhattan and discovers the price of rent and groceries does he understand that the rise in pay will include a decline in the standard of living.
    -Jason "The B12 is going to do anything it can to convince the BEast to let WVa go by 2012... this could speed the move of Syrac and Pitt our way" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  3. #1383
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    I guess current events in Happy Valley will pretty much leave Penn State out of any further discussions of becoming a member of the ACC.

  4. #1384
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by devildeac View Post
    I guess current events in Happy Valley will pretty much leave Penn State out of any further discussions of becoming a member of the ACC.
    Didn't stop us from taking Miami. $$$$$$$$$.

  5. #1385
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Didn't stop us from taking Miami. $$$$$$$$$.
    Or retaining them either.

  6. #1386
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    While the Penn State allegations are obviously troubling and disturbing, I am not sure if it is an indictment of the school and staff so much as the sick acts of one who happened to be employed on the staff. That would be much different than {cough} systematic {Butch} failures (Davis) which raises concerns about the institutional culture. My view may change if JoPa or others at the University actively covered it up, of course, but even then the scandal would not disqualify PSU from the ACC.

    And, if the allegations are true, all of the guilty should fry. I think everyone agrees on that point. And, as always, we need to see what all of the facts (not allegations) are before reaching conclusions.

  7. #1387
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO

    The Conference Changes Are a GOOD Idea!

    Here's my reasoning. One of the valid complaints about the BCS is that it is exclusionary, focusing only on 66 teams -- 65 conference members plus the special deal on Notre Dame. Now there will be 74 teams under the BCS deal. I think that is a step in the right direction.

    Now the mechanism is interesting. It isn't only that the BCS conferences decided to expand the number of members, but it is also that a number of schools tried to move up in the world by becoming members of richer and more prestigious conferences. This produced a chain reaction, where primarily the Big East -- which is at the bottom of the heap because of its challenges -- is bringing a number of teams under the Big East and, therefore, BCS banner.

    The new additions to BCSLand will apparently turn out to be: Utah, TCU, Houston, Boise State, Air Force, Navy, Central Florida, and SMU. We can give the Pac12 credit for adding Utah. The Big East gets an assist on TCU, which will end up in the Big 12. The others will end up in the Big East.

    And BTW, the Big East will gain a lot more political muscle on Capitol Hill with its expanded membership.

    sagegrouse
    'This means that the only Southwest Conference team not in a BCS conference will be my other alma mater, the Fighting Rice Owls'
    Last edited by sagegrouse; 11-07-2011 at 11:56 AM. Reason: Added last sentence

  8. #1388
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Maryland
    The service academies may opt out. Army has already said they aren't interested -- which is why they are never mentioned. If Air Force joins, the Navy probably will too -- but that is still very much up in the air:

    http://www.gazette.com/sports/names-...-thompson.html

    Without Navy, the BE East would be the five remaining members plus Central Florida, and then you'll have the Far East composed of teams west of the Mississippi. Houston, Boise, SMU, and then pick 3: BYU, SDSU, Nevada, Fresno, Tulsa, Colorado State, Wyoming.

    But of course, if UConn, Rutgers, Lousiville and Cincy all depart for greener ACC/B12 pastures, then maybe there will be yet another round of "expansion". In five years, the New New New Big East might look like this:

    East: ECU, SF, CF, Southern Miss, Southern Methodist, Houston (but West Virginia would make it all directional)
    Far East: SDSU, Fresno, BYU, Boise, Colorado State, Wyoming.

    Maybe Tulane and Rice can get in the next time

  9. #1389
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by ForkFondler View Post
    The service academies may opt out. Army has already said they aren't interested -- which is why they are never mentioned. If Air Force joins, the Navy probably will too -- but that is still very much up in the air:

    http://www.gazette.com/sports/names-...-thompson.html

    Without Navy, the BE East would be the five remaining members plus Central Florida, and then you'll have the Far East composed of teams west of the Mississippi. Houston, Boise, SMU, and then pick 3: BYU, SDSU, Nevada, Fresno, Tulsa, Colorado State, Wyoming.

    But of course, if UConn, Rutgers, Lousiville and Cincy all depart for greener ACC/B12 pastures, then maybe there will be yet another round of "expansion". In five years, the New New New Big East might look like this:

    East: ECU, SF, CF, Southern Miss, Southern Methodist, Houston (but West Virginia would make it all directional)
    Far East: SDSU, Fresno, BYU, Boise, Colorado State, Wyoming.

    Maybe Tulane and Rice can get in the next time
    Slim to no chance that Southern Miss would move to the Big East. The rest of the teams you list I could see happening. At this point, does Conference USA have a better argument for a BCS bid than the Big East?

    I do hope that the Big 12 wins in court and gets WVU in for the start of next season. That should lead to Pitt and Syracuse being allowed to come to the ACC in time for next season as well. It would be better for all involved if the conferences just let all the teams moving go immediately and start the new alignments in 2012. Dragging it out with lameduck teams is going to benefit no one imo.

  10. #1390
    While WVU takes their move public going to court, Syracuse and Pitt have been very quiet. Are they ok with staying in the Big East for their contracted time? What is their strategy?
    ~rthomas

  11. #1391
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by rthomas View Post
    While WVU takes their move public going to court, Syracuse and Pitt have been very quiet. Are they ok with staying in the Big East for their contracted time? What is their strategy?
    I think maybe they realize they have no legal leg to stand on and their best chance to get out early is to cooperate with the big east and try to come to some sort of agreement. With the lawsuit, I would guess that the chances of getting out early without a prohibitively expensive penalty went to approximately zero.

    The problem is thus: the big east has an idea about how much these teams are worth to the conference in any given year. They will force them to pay more than that to get out early.
    These teams have an idea of how much more they can make in their new conference than in the big east. They will want to pay less than that to get out early.

    I'm not sure the first number is less than the second number, and this is why i don't think its the given that so many people think that pitt and syracuse will be here next year. basically, the teams are worth more to the big east than the difference in the leagues is worth to the teams. Since the league (seems) to have the law on their side (we'll see what happens to uwv), the big east can effectively force the teams to stay if they so choose. Will they do that? Will they cut their losses and take the cash? I don't know. Some finance/accountant guy in the big east does though.
    1200. DDMF.

  12. #1392
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Delaware
    Quote Originally Posted by rthomas View Post
    While WVU takes their move public going to court, Syracuse and Pitt have been very quiet. Are they ok with staying in the Big East for their contracted time? What is their strategy?
    I think this is less a WVU/Pitt/Cuse issue than it is an ACC/Big 12 issue. Big East football is a sinking ship. Even when those three were in the conference, there was no stability as there was tension between football and non-football schools, as well as the conference being well behind the other 5 AQ's in money and performance. All three have been given a chance to move. I doubt they care so much about leaving in 1 year instead of 3 that they would go to court. The issue is that the Big 12 is desperate to get them in now to fulfill it's TV obligations. The ACC has no such time pressure and has sat back and let it play out in front of them. If the conference fell apart to let Pitt and Cuse come early, great, if not, they can wait a few years.

  13. #1393
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    I think maybe they realize they have no legal leg to stand on and their best chance to get out early is to cooperate with the big east and try to come to some sort of agreement. With the lawsuit, I would guess that the chances of getting out early without a prohibitively expensive penalty went to approximately zero.

    The problem is thus: the big east has an idea about how much these teams are worth to the conference in any given year. They will force them to pay more than that to get out early.
    These teams have an idea of how much more they can make in their new conference than in the big east. They will want to pay less than that to get out early.

    I'm not sure the first number is less than the second number, and this is why i don't think its the given that so many people think that pitt and syracuse will be here next year. basically, the teams are worth more to the big east than the difference in the leagues is worth to the teams. Since the league (seems) to have the law on their side (we'll see what happens to uwv), the big east can effectively force the teams to stay if they so choose. Will they do that? Will they cut their losses and take the cash? I don't know. Some finance/accountant guy in the big east does though.
    There are a lot of legal legs to stand on, actually. Not having all of the facts, backroom promises, etc. makes it difficult for us to really judge which arguments in the Big East and WVU complaints may be strong and which may be weak, but "material adverse effect" is a real thing.

    I would agree, though, that this is at its core an econmic breach by WVU (which happens all the time in business -- even on friendly terms), and I am sure they expect to pay somewhere north of $5MM and somewhere well south of whatever number the Big East throws out there. I would be surprisedif it's much north of $10MM when it's all said and done. The Big East needs to move on more than anyone else, though. If the Big East holds this thing up, they are hurting whatever slim chance they have of being part of the club next time around. If they flail and snarl like a cornered dog, they may squeeze some more dollars out of WVU, Syracuse and Pitt in the short term, but will blow the big money in the long term. You can call it collusion or whatever, but it's reality.

  14. #1394
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    New Orleans, Louisiana
    I haven't seen this anywhere -- not that I'm searching high and low -- but I was wondering what Big East BASKETBALL might look like.

    Big East, Mostly North Division

    Connecticut
    St. John's
    Rutgers
    Seton Hall
    Providence
    Villanova

    Big East, Mostly South Division

    Georgetown
    South Florida
    Central Florida
    Houston
    SMU

    Big East, Mostly Midwest Division

    Cincinnati
    DePaul
    Louisville
    Marquette
    Notre Dame

    6-5-5. Basically it's the MLB National League.

    I like how Georgetown and Houston could become division rivals. Who saw that coming back in 1984? The Big East should add Memphis as well, so they can claim the entire 1985 Final Four. Stick them in the Mostly South Division. Then add Xavier to the Mostly Midwest Division, giving us three divisions of 6 teams each. No religious repercussions there.

  15. #1395
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by brevity View Post
    I haven't seen this anywhere -- not that I'm searching high and low -- but I was wondering what Big East BASKETBALL might look like.

    Big East, Mostly North Division

    Connecticut
    St. John's
    Rutgers
    Seton Hall
    Providence
    Villanova

    Big East, Mostly South Division

    Georgetown
    South Florida
    Central Florida
    Houston
    SMU

    Big East, Mostly Midwest Division

    Cincinnati
    DePaul
    Louisville
    Marquette
    Notre Dame

    6-5-5. Basically it's the MLB National League.

    I like how Georgetown and Houston could become division rivals. Who saw that coming back in 1984? The Big East should add Memphis as well, so they can claim the entire 1985 Final Four. Stick them in the Mostly South Division. Then add Xavier to the Mostly Midwest Division, giving us three divisions of 6 teams each. No religious repercussions there.
    Georgetown would pay to have it so.

  16. #1396
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Why have divisions at all? The Big East should just add a team or two and have a 16 game regular season where everyone plays everyone else one time. Simple and elegant.

    -Jason "what a mess the Big East has become!!" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  17. #1397
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Maryland
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Why have divisions at all? The Big East should just add a team or two and have a 16 game regular season where everyone plays everyone else one time. Simple and elegant.
    ... and boring. Like the ACC, I think the BE should aim for home-and-home eight team divisions with a few cross divisional regular season games -- and then mix it up in earnest in early March.

  18. #1398
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by ForkFondler View Post
    ... and boring. Like the ACC, I think the BE should aim for home-and-home eight team divisions with a few cross divisional regular season games -- and then mix it up in earnest in early March.
    the big east ditched divisions idk, 10 years ago, because the teams hated it. Despite the loss of 3 high profile teams, the other 13 are still the same and I find it highly unlikely that they would suddenly decide they wanted divisions.

    scratch that: i favor 2 divisions

    big Beast:
    uconn
    ND
    marquette
    louisville
    st johns
    villanova
    georgetown
    cincinnati

    big least :
    rutgers
    depaul
    providence
    3 new teams
    south florida
    seton hall

    then the two divisions never play eachother ever until the conference tournament when the first round of games features interdivisional matchups

    for those who were confused, the preceding was a joke
    1200. DDMF.

  19. #1399
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Maryland
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    the big east ditched divisions idk, 10 years ago, because the teams hated it. Despite the loss of 3 high profile teams, the other 13 are still the same and I find it highly unlikely that they would suddenly decide they wanted divisions.

    scratch that: i favor 2 divisions

    big Beast:
    uconn
    ND
    marquette
    louisville
    st johns
    villanova
    georgetown
    cincinnati

    big least :
    rutgers
    depaul
    providence
    3 new teams
    south florida
    seton hall

    then the two divisions never play eachother ever until the conference tournament when the first round of games features interdivisional matchups

    for those who were confused, the preceding was a joke
    How about:

    Old Big East:
    Uconn
    Nova
    St Johns
    Gtown
    Providence
    Satan Hall
    Temple
    Rutgers

    New Big East:
    Louisville
    Cincy
    Marquette
    DePaul
    CF
    SF
    Houston
    SMU

  20. #1400

    no divisions

    I've argued that conferences of such size, including the account, shouldn't have divisions for basketball. You can't have it both ways, a Mega conference AND preserve your rivalries. So why not embrace the size. At least the big east gotthat part right.

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