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  1. #1001
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Austin, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    That would be approximately the most appropriate and just thing ever in this carnival. I have no ties to any of the Big XII schools; at this point, I'm just rooting to see Texas get F'd because I don't like them.

    I'm not crossing my fingers though.
    Fixed it for you. And that's cool. But you've offers about 10 times more in perjorative remarks than substance to this thread, which isn't typically like you.

  2. #1002
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Have you ever driven to Penn State? I've done it a couple of times. The ridges in PA and throughout the Appalachians run NE to SW. So approaching Penn State from the DC area (SE), for example, or from any ACC location except Pitt is no fun. Of course, Miami is similarly isolated, but at least when you get there....

    sagegrouse
    As a fan driving to State College from Pitt, Syracuse, Maryland, even VT, UVa, Boston College, these are doable trips. The Allegheny Mountains are a far cry from the Rockies. I have driven through these areas numbers of times. Presently, within their conference, Penn State fans might drive to Columbus Ohio (and vice a versa), but that would be about it. The University Park Airport is small. You connect in Philadelphia or DC to get there. In the Big 10 for Penn State its a major production getting each of their teams out to Big 10 country for athletic contests, as it is just as difficult getting Big 10 teams into State College. Penn State would prefer an ACC travel itinerary, of that we can be sure. Its a question of whether revenue sharing can be competitive.

  3. #1003
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis
    Quote Originally Posted by A-Tex Devil View Post
    Fixed it for you. And that's cool. But you've offers about 10 times more in perjorative remarks than substance to this thread, which isn't typically like you.
    Pejorative doesn't have an r in it. I know, I have to look it up a lot myself.

    This isn't about me. I am reacting to the absurd level of spin issuing from you. I really didn't care about UT-Austin one way or the other before this mess. Friends suggested I'm trying to tweak you or something. No. I'm not. I don't care to tweak people.

    I do think it's amazing that you accuse anyone else of spin. You've spun and spun. That isn't ad hominem. That is what has happened. And then you accuse others of spin? Wow.

    I'm terribly put off of Texas now. A lot of that is based on what you've done in this thread. The rest is based on reading Texas boards, which basically horrify me. As I said, I didn't have a dog in the UT-A&M-OU-TTU-MU-NU fight before. It is only based on the rhetoric and actions of folks like ATex that I have very recently decided I am rooting for all of Texas' rivals against them.

    Now, to be sure, a comparison to Duke isn't flattering to Duke. Duke suffers from much of the same syndrome that Texas does. (We think we're the best no matter what, our interests supersede those of anyone else, etc). But I have long ceased to be a Duke apologist. If you want to say Duke is "just as arrogant" or something like that as Texas, I'll print the flyers for you. Heck, worse.

    Again, I am not acting as an MU operative here. Would I like to see them do OK? Sure. In sports. They aren't real nice to us when it comes to academic matters, though. If they go to the SEC, good for them. But in their case, I'd never want to be in a conference with Texas ever again after the last year. You gotta protect ya neck. I don't understand why anyone would ever want to be in a conference with Texas ever again.

    This isn't about me, and it isn't even really about ATex. It's about UT-Austin's behavior. I didn't have an opinion about them before the last 18 months. Now I do.

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  4. #1004
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis
    Quote Originally Posted by formerdukeathlete View Post
    As a fan driving to State College from Pitt, Syracuse, Maryland, even VT, UVa, Boston College, these are doable trips. The Allegheny Mountains are a far cry from the Rockies. I have driven through these areas numbers of times. Presently, within their conference, Penn State fans might drive to Columbus Ohio (and vice a versa), but that would be about it. The University Park Airport is small. You connect in Philadelphia or DC to get there. In the Big 10 for Penn State its a major production getting each of their teams out to Big 10 country for athletic contests, as it is just as difficult getting Big 10 teams into State College. Penn State would prefer an ACC travel itinerary, of that we can be sure. Its a question of whether revenue sharing can be competitive.
    What FDA said.

    This is all true. And that senator, I forget his name, Murtha? He hooked them up to I-99, which is generally reviled among road geeks as the worst violation of the numbering system in the interstates.

    It's not hard to get to State College from ACC country. It's not hard from Iowa, either, but it takes longer than from NC/VA/MD.

    That said, PSU is not going to slum with us and give the B1G the deuces.

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  5. #1005
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    That said, PSU is not going to slum with us and give the B1G the deuces.
    I think that's the most well put it's ever been. Perhaps we can stop hearing about it.
    1200. DDMF.

  6. #1006
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post

    That said, PSU is not going to slum with us and give the B1G the deuces.
    Slum?

    Look, just because our league contains some private and non-land grant institutions, it doesn't mean that we are worse people because of it.

  7. #1007
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post

    I don't understand why anyone would ever want to be in a conference with Texas ever again.

    This isn't about me, and it isn't even really about ATex. It's about UT-Austin's behavior. I didn't have an opinion about them before the last 18 months. Now I do.
    You keep saying this generically, but what was it exactly? I get that Texas is a big dog in this and haters gonna hate. As a Duke fan you clearly understand that as well. But other than an aggressive and clumsy introduction of LHN programming this summer, which UT must share full responsibility for even though the mistakes were directly made by ESPN, tell me where UT hasn't been above board? Give an example. Where have they been this "bully"? People say this, and maybe it's the cash-flow, strong alumni and leadership, and resources UT is lucky enough to have that makes it a bully. If that's the case, tough. But give a discrete example. I am not saying they don't exist, but I am guessing in most cases UT wasn't acting alone. They are 1 school in 12 with 1 vote.

    And I am not trying to change your opinion on this because I won't, and yes my posts are very UT biased. But if my alma mater gets accused of dirty dealing (as opposed to just plain envy, which again as Duke fans, we get) or the like, I am curious to know what those facts are.

    And all schools message boards are horrible in their own way. Hell, people that don't like Duke think this one is offensive, and this is probably the most inoffensive, civil board out there. I'll just let that comment go.

  8. #1008
    Quote Originally Posted by A-Tex Devil View Post
    I think BYU and Louisville get Big XII offers but I am not sure BYU accepts at this point. I don't know about TCU and SMU working together. At least not if Gary Patterson has something to say about it.

    If BYU turns down the Big XII, then at this point, anything could happen.

    Also, after the egg on it's face last year, and the fact the SEC Presidents are apparently meeting tomorrow, I get the feeling now this Mizzou to SEC was a done deal once the Curators signed off on it. We shall see.
    Maybe it was just heat of the moment but that TCU coach surely did not seem anxious to do anything more to help SMU.

    What Mizzou decides affects whether B12 looks for as few as one to get to 10, or as many as 4 to get to 12.

    Curators unanimous that MO should explore all its options. That clearly includes SEC and may be a done deal as you say.

    Missouri may opt to stay in B12 butonly without the granting of rights it would seem, but might also awaken B1G (personal opinion on latter). The B1G lost out on Pitt and MD to East that would have appeased PSU, and now would lose out on MO to west, all 3 AAU schoosl which is a very finite number.

    Katz says lead candidates are BYU, TCU, Louisville and West VA which would get BE football down to Rutgers, U CONN, Cincy and USF, and escalate Notre Dame's need to decide how much longer independence is feasible.

    Deaton resigned as head of B12 due to obvious conflict of interest but so far remains on B12 expansion committee.

    No timeframe specified in link.


  9. #1009
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Maryland
    Quote Originally Posted by ACCBBallFan View Post
    Maybe it was just heat of the moment but that TCU coach surely did not seem anxious to do anything more to help SMU.
    I thought it was so exceptionally thin-skinned that it must have some other motivation, like fueling a rvialry. Even if that is not what the coach intended, it is surely what the writer of the story intended.

  10. #1010
    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    Slum?

    Look, just because our league contains some private and non-land grant institutions, it doesn't mean that we are worse people because of it.
    Perhaps the ship has sailed re Penn State and it is not coming back into port. Commonwealth appropriations have been cut back. The school must be revenue conscious. Based on informal, unscientific, sample too small, survey of Penn State boosters and alums, Penn State would prefer to join the ACC. Message boards, blogs to me suggest that this might be the case. Why not align with a conference in a region with growing demographics, better weather, more hospitable destinations, which would help recruiting, potentially. It would not change as in decrease home game gate receipts. The Syracuse game with Greg Paulus was sold out. Every Pitt, Maryland, Boston College, you name it would be sold out up there, imo. Travel costs and travel times would tend to decrease. So, for Penn State, would they lose research grant revenue coming to the ACC? I guess so, possibly. Would they be revenue impaired, net of travel costs, were they to join the ACC with another traditional Football power? I think there is a fair chance that they would not be impaired.

    And, then you might factor in that their basketball arena, Bryce Jordan Center, which is a 15,261 seat facility, multi-purpose arena, is half full on average for mens home basketball games. http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/...bddcc110a6426c They average 7.457 in attendance, less than half full. Penn State makes a lot more in basketball were they to join the ACC. I hope K. White is aware of this, and the the ACC office is aware that were Duke, UNC, Maryland, Pitt, Syracuse coming into State College to play, these games may be sellouts, at double the Big 10 average home basketball attendance, and Penn State makes more money.

  11. #1011
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Northern VA
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    Pejorative doesn't have an r in it. I know, I have to look it up a lot myself.

    This isn't about me. I am reacting to the absurd level of spin issuing from you. I really didn't care about UT-Austin one way or the other before this mess. Friends suggested I'm trying to tweak you or something. No. I'm not. I don't care to tweak people...

    I'm terribly put off of Texas now. A lot of that is based on what you've done in this thread. The rest is based on reading Texas boards, which basically horrify me. As I said, I didn't have a dog in the UT-A&M-OU-TTU-MU-NU fight before. It is only based on the rhetoric and actions of folks like ATex that I have very recently decided I am rooting for all of Texas' rivals against them.

    Now, to be sure, a comparison to Duke isn't flattering to Duke. Duke suffers from much of the same syndrome that Texas does. (We think we're the best no matter what, our interests supersede those of anyone else, etc). But I have long ceased to be a Duke apologist. If you want to say Duke is "just as arrogant" or something like that as Texas, I'll print the flyers for you. Heck, worse..
    ????

    Other than the spelling comment, that was a pretty entertaining post TB.

    I too really lack a dog in this hunt. A long time ago I lived in south Texas and can confirm the UT really does dominate the state there, in many, many ways. What I have read in articles and heard from multiple friends out there is that UT has thoroughly dominated the Big12, in both wins (football and other sports), which is sure to spur some jealousy, but also in terms of repeatedly steering the BIG12 towards rules changes favoring UT. The LHN was simply "the last straw," or so they say. Don't forget, UT had a huge money (and I'm told MEDIA) advantage before the LHN came about. I liken it to MLB where, it is argued that, it's hardly a level playing field if one team has double the payroll of all the other teams averaged together, and is based in the main national media hub. But that's a different fight... (The best argument I hear from my New Yorker friends is simply, "It isn't meant to be a level palying field...")

    For UT I think it is telling that EVERYONE in the Big12 dislikes them. I think the best parallel in the ACC might be the combined Durham-ChapelHell beast of Duke and NC@CH, at least for the sports other than FB. NC has the dominant league rules/leadership/media/fanbase/resources/political influence, while Duke has the sterling academic/success/money rep (and some will argue the "arrogance" to go along with it) and great on-field success (other than FB).

    But I'm honestly at a loss to name another single school that so dominates a major conference the way UT has dominated the Big12 in so many different ways over the years. It certainly has led to an interesting, changing landscape in college athletics.

  12. #1012
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX

    Good article by Dennis Dodds

    Linked here.

    Yesterday's decision not to commit to Big XII surprised me, but after reading some more Mizzou-centric stuff yesterday, I shouldn't have been surprised. The governor and the board of regents wanted to keep all options open, and who can blame them? In their mind the 6 year commitment is not enough.

    But its interesting that Dennis Dodds reports it might take months to make the final decision. That is somewhat refreshing. Chip Brown (UT schill, I know), is reporting that the Big XII may offer up locking up Tier 1 and Tier 2 rights through the end of the Fox contract (meaning the schools grant them to the conference to negotiate with -- just like every other major conference), which is ~13 years, and apparently something Mizzou might be interested in.

    The other concession would be that the LHN (or any other future school network) can't play high school highlights or even cover high school sports. It isn't showing any high school content right now, but the NCAA ban is only on playing high school games. My guess is Texas would be begrudgingly OK with that, but I am not sure how ESPN will react. I could see them making a bit of a stand there to protect its investment. We'll see.

  13. #1013
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham at heart
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    I think that's the most well put it's ever been. Perhaps we can stop hearing about it.
    Doubtful. Clearly all one needs to do to support the idea of Penn State to the ACC is claim to have found a person who attended PSU who thinks its a good idea.

    Penn.

    State.

    Is.

    Not.

    Joining.

    The.

    ACC.

    And for the record, as much respect as I have for JoePa and what he's done, how he's run his program and all he's done for that school, the cold hard fact is that those running the University don't give a damn what Joe Paterno has to say. They are just trying to figure out a way to have him step down so that they can move on. Also, just to set the record straight on this... Coach K and Paterno are not life long buddies. In fact, they'd never met before the taping of the Q&A show over the summer. So I really don't think that K is gonna ring up Joe and convince him to push for a move to the ACC. Especially since no one is listening.

    But what do I know... I consider facts, not baseless speculation.

  14. #1014
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by -bdbd View Post
    . (The best argument I hear from my New Yorker friends is simply, "It isn't meant to be a level palying field...")
    There is truth to that in college sports - and try as we might, it can never be level. Not all schools have the same alumni support, whether collectively, like a Texas or Ohio St or Notre Dame, or from select very wealthy individuals, like Okie St, Oregon or Auburn. Not all schools have the same state resources, or student and alumni populations. Some schools spend a larger percentage of their budget on athletics and upgrades thereto than other schools.

    The idea, for instance, that the SEC, "the most bestest, most powerful conference in the world," is a level playing field (which is what I heard from A&M all through August) is absolutely laughable, considering Alabama and Florida make 8 figures per year in third tier revenue and Mississippi St. made.... NADA. Florida's contract with Sun Sports is so remarkably similar to UT's with ESPN, it's shocking. The main difference is that Sun Sports isn't a dedicated branded network. It does play other sports, and ***Gasp*** high school games which have Florida recruits. That's OK though, apparently. If the Longhorn Network changed its name to the Lone Star Network and showed a bunch of minor league baseball and MLS games, could it then also show high school games?

    So, I guess if Texas is the bad guy because it has more money and more sway and uses said sway to look after its own interests, then it's the bad guy. And I think that's all you are saying, -bdbd, and I get that. Texas = the Yankees, Duke Basketball, Dallas Cowboys, etc. as far as perception goes. But what I HAVEN'T seen is Texas be a bad actor, dishonest or not above board. They haven't breached contracts or broken deals. They've explored their options like all schools, but for whatever reason, it's verboten if Texas does it.

  15. #1015
    Quote Originally Posted by MulletMan View Post
    Doubtful. Clearly all one needs to do to support the idea of Penn State to the ACC is claim to have found a person who attended PSU who thinks its a good idea.

    Penn.

    State.

    Is.

    Not.

    Joining.

    The.

    ACC.

    And for the record, as much respect as I have for JoePa and what he's done, how he's run his program and all he's done for that school, the cold hard fact is that those running the University don't give a damn what Joe Paterno has to say. They are just trying to figure out a way to have him step down so that they can move on. Also, just to set the record straight on this... Coach K and Paterno are not life long buddies. In fact, they'd never met before the taping of the Q&A show over the summer. So I really don't think that K is gonna ring up Joe and convince him to push for a move to the ACC. Especially since no one is listening.

    But what do I know... I consider facts, not baseless speculation.
    Here is an interesting article on September 30th in Penn State's Daily Collegian on the difficulties in traveling among Big 10 schools.

    http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive...ubletruck.aspx Ironically, it also mentions travel distances among ACC schools, quotes Boheim, when, were Penn State (in the nearly impossible odds and remotest probability you suggest) to join the ACC, their travel itineraries would be much more tolerable as members of our Conference.

  16. #1016
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham at heart
    Quote Originally Posted by formerdukeathlete View Post
    Here is an interesting article on September 30th in Penn State's Daily Collegian on the difficulties in traveling among Big 10 schools.

    http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive...ubletruck.aspx Ironically, it also mentions travel distances among ACC schools, quotes Boheim, when, were Penn State (in the nearly impossible odds and remotest probability you suggest) to join the ACC, their travel itineraries would be much more tolerable as members of our Conference.
    WOW! You are so full of it. That article makes ABSOLUTELY NO MENTION of Penn State leaving the Big Ten for the ACC, nor does it mention travel distances for PSU to ACC schools. The article discusses the challenges in scheduling and travel for all schools as conferences expand their geographical footprint. It also makes an example of moving the Penn State-Nebraska volleyball match to coincide with the Big Ten network's desire to put it in a primetime slot. It says NOTHING about Penn State travel itineraries if they were to join the ACC. Nothing.

    The only part of the article that discusses travel distances between ACC schools is when the Miami Women's volleyball coach points out that travel is becoming more difficult IN THE ACC!

    The article does not quote Boeheim. It quotes other people agreeing with Boeheim's comments that these conference moves are about money and that Boeheim's criticism of moving Syracuse to the ACC is a bad thing due to travel implications.

    Furthermore, the money quote is:

    "For now, Olympic sports teams will continue to join whichever conference benefits the revenue sports the most.

    Penn State is unique in that football creates enough revenue it keeps the other programs operating every year, thanks to the Big Ten’s revenue sharing arrangement that spreads profits evenly amongst all of its schools so every program gets an equal piece of the pie."

  17. #1017
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX

    Deloss Dodds finally speaks

    ... to an Oklahoma newspaper, no less!!

  18. #1018
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by A-Tex Devil View Post
    So, I guess if Texas is the bad guy because it has more money and more sway and uses said sway to look after its own interests, then it's the bad guy. And I think that's all you are saying, -bdbd, and I get that. Texas = the Yankees, Duke Basketball, Dallas Cowboys, etc. as far as perception goes. But what I HAVEN'T seen is Texas be a bad actor, dishonest or not above board. They haven't breached contracts or broken deals. They've explored their options like all schools, but for whatever reason, it's verboten if Texas does it.
    Okay, but here's the thing. Regardless of how we feel about what Texas has or has not done, we have to agree that *something* has gone very wrong with the Big 12 Conference, don't we? Three schools have left in barely more than a year, and a fourth is ready to bolt - and not leaving as part of a raid, but leaving for any major conference that will take them. Two more were ready to leave before they got denied by their planned destination. Schools are breaking up hundred-year rivalries to get away from this league.

    Is this Texas' fault? I have no idea. Does that make Texas a "bad guy"? I don't know, and it probably doesn't matter. Should Texas care if people think it's a bad guy? Probably not. But something in the plains just isn't right.

  19. #1019

    Baseless speculation...

    Quote Originally Posted by MulletMan View Post
    But what do I know... I consider facts, not baseless speculation.
    Baseless speculation is all this conference realignment non-sense is, with most of it changing day to day.

    I did read one interesting tidbit in the article linked by fda. The idea that olympic sports form their own small conferences. It was dismissed, but I like it. One conference for football, another for everything else. Why not!

  20. #1020
    Quote Originally Posted by MulletMan View Post
    WOW! You are so full of it. That article makes ABSOLUTELY NO MENTION of Penn State leaving the Big Ten for the ACC, nor does it mention travel distances for PSU to ACC schools. The article discusses the challenges in scheduling and travel for all schools as conferences expand their geographical footprint. It also makes an example of moving the Penn State-Nebraska volleyball match to coincide with the Big Ten network's desire to put it in a primetime slot. It says NOTHING about Penn State travel itineraries if they were to join the ACC. Nothing.

    The only part of the article that discusses travel distances between ACC schools is when the Miami Women's volleyball coach points out that travel is becoming more difficult IN THE ACC!

    The article does not quote Boeheim. It quotes other people agreeing with Boeheim's comments that these conference moves are about money and that Boeheim's criticism of moving Syracuse to the ACC is a bad thing due to travel implications.

    Furthermore, the money quote is:

    "For now, Olympic sports teams will continue to join whichever conference benefits the revenue sports the most.

    Penn State is unique in that football creates enough revenue it keeps the other programs operating every year, thanks to the Big Ten’s revenue sharing arrangement that spreads profits evenly amongst all of its schools so every program gets an equal piece of the pie."
    ok, the article paraphrased Boheim, who has been quoted of his initial comments regarding expansion. And, why not track otherwise what I have said, rather than wrongly writing that I purported that the article said something about Penn State considering the ACC?

    In the flow of this thread, I have commented that Penn State athletic contest travel distances and itineraries improve as a member of the ACC. A consideration which might peak the slightest interest. Increased (much) basketball revenue might peak the slightest interest.

    This article focused on the ongoing challenges at Penn State in traveling to their Big 10 rivals, that travel distances are one of the problems with expansion. OK, Swofford knows the ACC offers a better regional footprint for Penn State. But, this article kind of brings home one of the costs for Penn State in being a member of the Big 10. Travel is rough, unless you are the Football team which travels on charters out of University Park. The irony in the article is that in pointing out greater traveling distances in the ACC as a result of expansion is that another round of ACC expansion including Penn State would greatly improve Penn State's lot with travel.

    If Penn State sold out 10 home games a year in basketball, roughly 8k times 10 more in attendance at $30.00 a ticket, this would represent $2.4 million more in Basketball revenue a year.

    BTW, you were one as I recall to suggest that my posts that Greg Paulus would be recruited for Football for a year of ball were baseless speculation. I posted this immediately after the end of his senior season. I had spoken with one of the coaches interested. This was before the Green Bay Packers, before I believe the Basketball office had received inquiries. I think there is a lot more out there to suggest that Penn State would at least listen.

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