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  1. #541
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    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    its interesting, since assuming the ACC goes to 16, we'll have 7 original ACC members, 7 Big East members, and 2 others. so the ACC becomes exactly as much ex-big east as it is original ACC.
    Not sure why that matters, (and Pitt was not an original Big East team, nor was Miami), but at this point who the 15th and 16th teams will be is still very much up in the air. UConn is lobbying hard to join the party, but with so many teams asking to join, the ACC has the luxury of taking the schools that they see as the best fit. Who knows who that will be at this point?

  2. #542
    Quote Originally Posted by Verga3 View Post
    Can you provide some of the numbers, please? The financial piece of this is obviously a huge part. What are the numbers that equate your "selling $20 for $10" comment. Please understand, not digging at you, just trying to understand the issues and financial context that Penn State is facing. Thanks for your post.
    After the last TV deal (last year), ACC is getting roughly 13 million/school a year from TV. The Big 10 numbers are sketchy, but basically it's 22-5 million/school now, with huge growth potential due to owning their network. Even after redoing the contracts with ESPN, I seriously doubt the ACC will get close enough to that number to make it worthwhile for Penn State to leave the Big 10.

  3. #543
    Quote Originally Posted by tallguy View Post
    After the last TV deal (last year), ACC is getting roughly 13 million/school a year from TV. The Big 10 numbers are sketchy, but basically it's 22-5 million/school now, with huge growth potential due to owning their network. Even after redoing the contracts with ESPN, I seriously doubt the ACC will get close enough to that number to make it worthwhile for Penn State to leave the Big 10.
    The current ACC deal was negotiated at the depths of the 08-09 financial crisis. It will be renegotiated now with Pitt and Syracuse joining the conference. Add what Penn State and another team might add to the mix, and maybe Penn State does not take a hair cut financially. Travel costs for the athletic department would be reduced, as well.

  4. #544
    Quote Originally Posted by tallguy View Post
    After the last TV deal (last year), ACC is getting roughly 13 million/school a year from TV. The Big 10 numbers are sketchy, but basically it's 22-5 million/school now, with huge growth potential due to owning their network. Even after redoing the contracts with ESPN, I seriously doubt the ACC will get close enough to that number to make it worthwhile for Penn State to leave the Big 10.
    I agree that I think it would be hard to approach Big 10 numbers to make it worthwhile for Penn State to join ACC [unless the ACC could bring in a ND]; but how does the Big 10 numbers have huge growth potential with Big 19 network if the Big 10 doesn't get into the NY market or into the midatlantic or southern markets (with the assmumption that Rutgers does go to the ACC, MD stays, Texas goes to the PAC 12 or ACC, and no schools in major southern metro areas join the Big 10)? I guess the inclusion of Missouri and a Kansas school would help expand the network; but those wouldn't be major markets.

  5. #545
    Quote Originally Posted by formerdukeathlete View Post
    The current ACC deal was negotiated at the depths of the 08-09 financial crisis. It will be renegotiated now with Pitt and Syracuse joining the conference. Add what Penn State and another team might add to the mix, and maybe Penn State does not take a hair cut financially. Travel costs for the athletic department would be reduced, as well.
    Yeah...no. While the ACC can reopen the contract with new members, the contract will not be going back on the open market. ESPN will make it worthwhile for expansion, but it won't be the near 100% increase per school that would be required for ACC shares to reach Big 10 levels. In addition, the Big 10 shares are going up every year as the Big 10 Network reaches more and more subscribers, while the ACC #'s will remain static until the end of the contract, AND there's the whole ownership stake PSU has in the B1N.

    It makes zero sense for Penn State to even consider joining the ACC, and the fact that it's been continually brought up in this thread boggles my mind. The only way the ACC makes Big 10 money is if both ND and Texas join, and in that extremely unlikely scenario, there wouldn't be a spot for Penn State.

    Finally, why would Penn State want to be in the same conference as Pitt? They've been ducking them for years, and they've certainly enjoyed the Big brother/little brother aspect of having Pitt in a different, less prestigious conference. Why would Penn State give Pitt any sort of legitimacy by playing in the same conference as them, especially considering that Big 10 is, and probably will be for the foreseeable future, the better football conference.

  6. #546
    Quote Originally Posted by tallguy View Post
    Yeah...no. While the ACC can reopen the contract with new members, the contract will not be going back on the open market. ESPN will make it worthwhile for expansion, but it won't be the near 100% increase per school that would be required for ACC shares to reach Big 10 levels. In addition, the Big 10 shares are going up every year as the Big 10 Network reaches more and more subscribers, while the ACC #'s will remain static until the end of the contract, AND there's the whole ownership stake PSU has in the B1N.

    It makes zero sense for Penn State to even consider joining the ACC, and the fact that it's been continually brought up in this thread boggles my mind. The only way the ACC makes Big 10 money is if both ND and Texas join, and in that extremely unlikely scenario, there wouldn't be a spot for Penn State.

    Finally, why would Penn State want to be in the same conference as Pitt? They've been ducking them for years, and they've certainly enjoyed the Big brother/little brother aspect of having Pitt in a different, less prestigious conference. Why would Penn State give Pitt any sort of legitimacy by playing in the same conference as them, especially considering that Big 10 is, and probably will be for the foreseeable future, the better football conference.
    what is your connection with PA and Penn State? I have ties to both. I suggest you read Penn State message boards, check the rivals and scout boards, and you will find sentiment which is overwhelmingly negative toward membership in the Big Ten. And, what do you know of the triggers of the current ACC deal? It is possible that the changes going to 14 or 16 trigger substantial renegotiations and out provisions in the event both sides do not agree.

  7. #547
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by formerdukeathlete View Post
    what is your connection with PA and Penn State? I have ties to both. I suggest you read Penn State message boards, check the rivals and scout boards, and you will find sentiment which is overwhelmingly negative toward membership in the Big Ten. And, what do you know of the triggers of the current ACC deal? It is possible that the changes going to 14 or 16 trigger substantial renegotiations and out provisions in the event both sides do not agree.
    Seeing as fan sentiment has mattered so much thus far in the realignment, I suspect it will mean a ton to the P$U administration that the fans don't like the big10.
    1200. DDMF.

  8. #548
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Durham at heart
    Quote Originally Posted by formerdukeathlete View Post
    what is your connection with PA and Penn State? I have ties to both. I suggest you read Penn State message boards, check the rivals and scout boards, and you will find sentiment which is overwhelmingly negative toward membership in the Big Ten. And, what do you know of the triggers of the current ACC deal? It is possible that the changes going to 14 or 16 trigger substantial renegotiations and out provisions in the event both sides do not agree.
    What are your connections to Duke? What are your connections to Penn State? I have both. See... I can do that too.

    I would not make the case that Penn State wants out of the Big10 because there is negative sentiment on internet message boards. Indeed, most sentiment on internet message boards is negative... and it is rarely representative of the majority of opinions. The boosters and alums I know at Penn State are far more concerned with the coaching staff situation of their football team than they are with conference affiliation.

  9. #549
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    Feb 2008
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    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by MulletMan View Post
    What are your connections to Duke? What are your connections to Penn State? I have both. See... I can do that too.

    I would not make the case that Penn State wants out of the Big10 because there is negative sentiment on internet message boards. Indeed, most sentiment on internet message boards is negative... and it is rarely representative of the majority of opinions. The boosters and alums I know at Penn State are far more concerned with the coaching staff situation of their football team than they are with conference affiliation.
    yeah, I have connections to both schools, too.

    There are several posters on PSU message boards that want out of the B1G and think the grass looks greener in the ACC.
    But that doesn't prove much, nor do I think it represents even the majority of folks on the message boards, let alone the body of alums and administrators.

    Penn State in the B1G is a good fit and is very likely to continue.

    Penn State to the ACC is pure speculation and not even from anyone who has any particular information.

  10. #550
    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    yeah, I have connections to both schools, too.

    There are several posters on PSU message boards that want out of the B1G and think the grass looks greener in the ACC.
    But that doesn't prove much, nor do I think it represents even the majority of folks on the message boards, let alone the body of alums and administrators.

    Penn State in the B1G is a good fit and is very likely to continue.

    Penn State to the ACC is pure speculation and not even from anyone who has any particular information.
    As to the matter of not scheduling Pitt in recent years, it would seem that excluding Pitt from Penn State's schedule is not an entrenched policy going forward. Paterno mentioned Pitt as a Big Ten espansion candidate. "I've tried to talk to the Big Ten people about, 'Let's get a 12th team -- Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt -- we could have a little bit of a playoff.'" http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4118848

    I think it is fair to say that most people who grew up in PA would think that for Penn State membership in the ACC makes infinitely more sense geographically and relative to rivalries than membership in the Big 10. Penn State would not wilt as a research institution as a member of the ACC. As a school recruiting may improve in the ACC. The question is how close can the money get? We dont know the anwser to that. We also cannot prove in the negative a lack of interest on Penn State's part.

  11. #551
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    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    Swofford has already said he'd be interested in hosting the ACC tournament there, or at least in new york, but since its unlikely the big east will cease to exist, even if its the 8 non football schools, its likely that since they would still have st johns and several other big time bball schools (gtown, ND, marquette, villanova...along with providence, depaul, and seton hall) they would still be able to swing the garden.
    I don't think the BEast has ownership of the Garden for the BEast tournament. They may have the arena booked for a couple years in advance, but not forever. The folks who own the Garden, at some point, have the choice of who they allow in there for 4 or so days in early March for a conference tournament. If they think the ACC will being more fans and excitement to the arena, they could go that way.

    --Jason "ain't saying it will happen, but it could" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  12. #552
    Quote Originally Posted by tallguy View Post
    No school is leaving the Big 10, SEC, or Pac-12.
    While I absolutely hate expansion, I think this idea is wrong. They aren't running around afraid of losing their conference like the Big East or Big 12, but schools would consider moving.

    I think it's interesting that while so many fans of the ACC are lauding the administration for being "proactive"...the conference is definitely getting a black eye (and I don't just mean Big East fans). And it's kind of embarrassing to see the items listed on the front page "the end of the NCAA, the end of tax-exempt status for college sports, and the involvement of Congress" that are being brought about by these changes. The ACC might not have started it, but we sure as heck put the nail in the coffin.

    Also I earlier commented that the NCAA should have been the one that was proactive. While the merit of that comment was discussed, it was generally decided that power or not the NCAA didn't have the backbone to do anything about it. Big shock, the president is calling for caution...but saying nothing else.

    http://content.usatoday.com/communit...-for-caution/1

  13. #553
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    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I don't think the BEast has ownership of the Garden for the BEast tournament. They may have the arena booked for a couple years in advance, but not forever. The folks who own the Garden, at some point, have the choice of who they allow in there for 4 or so days in early March for a conference tournament. If they think the ACC will being more fans and excitement to the arena, they could go that way.

    --Jason "ain't saying it will happen, but it could" Evans
    Certainly, and the ACC will no doubt have the big bucks. St. Johns would likely have some sway, seeing as they have a long history/relationship with the garden, but I don't think it would be enough to hold an ACC with (assuming Uconn and rutgers) several teams with fanbases in the area and a larger coffer of funds to pay back if they indeed wanted to put the tournament there. What would make me unsure, though, is that the big east tournament puts their tournament on there every year, would MSG be willing to forgo an annual contract with one league in order to get a contract every 4-5 years with another? That is a huge question. If there was a threat from the ACC on that issue, the Big east could say, fine, we'll hold our tournament in Newark/Brooklyn, and MSG would suddenly be looking at 1 tournament every 4 years instead of 1 tournament every year and would likely cave. I think the more likely situation is that the big east keeps the garden and the ACC plays in brooklyn or new jersey
    1200. DDMF.

  14. #554
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    Feb 2007
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    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!

    Another name

    We have read the articles about UConn trying to get into the ACC. Well, you can add another name to that mix... Villanova.

    According to this article, Nova has applied for membership.

    Right now, I think our best best of getting to the ACC would be joining with another basketball-only member (think St. John's or Georgetown) so that they wouldn't have to add more football but could continue to increase the value of their basketball product.
    I hope the ACC does not go this route. Basketball-only membership to maybe Texas or Notre Dame I could see, but it does not make sense to me with these other schools. I would only take someone who has a football program and agreed to play some games against ACC football teams (like the 4-game deal that was talked about with Texas) with an eye toward becoming a full football members in the near future. Taking some schools basketball-only would cause the conference to become disjointed and confused, sorta like the way the Big Easy was (before we all but destroyed them).

    -Jason "the notion of a strong foothold in the Philly TV market is attractive though" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  15. #555
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    Feb 2007
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    New York, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    I'm confused. Why would the collapse of the BE and the B12 negatively impact Penn State's relationship with the Big 10/11/12?
    I hear the skepticism about ND and PSU, but...

    If the BE and B12 implode, the 4 big conference would make it difficult for an independent--like ND or potentially Texas--to get into the national title mix in football. I'd like to play Texas--I grew up there--but it doesn't make sense; they should go west. OTOH, ND has a great tv contract, but that may be less certain going forward--plus, there is presumably a way to set up a reasonable football contract that would divvy up the conference pie equally and then have additional pies for any teams that have additional tvgames.

    Joe Pa is very important, as is ND's current football contract, but neither is the actual university president or chair of the board of trustees, and neither gets an actual vote. If someone with actual university power decides that his university is better off being associated with the eastern seaboard than with schools in Lincoln and Madison, then the message boards and recent sports history don't matter, nor do a few million dollars/year. And especially with ND, I'd think the chances are better than 30/70 that they'll move over--and if they move over, the ACC rocks.

    Don't take my word for it--read someone who is equally uninformed:

    http://www.foxsportssouth.com/09/18/...97&feedID=3796

  16. #556
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    Certainly, and the ACC will no doubt have the big bucks. St. Johns would likely have some sway, seeing as they have a long history/relationship with the garden, but I don't think it would be enough to hold an ACC with (assuming Uconn and rutgers) several teams with fanbases in the area and a larger coffer of funds to pay back if they indeed wanted to put the tournament there. What would make me unsure, though, is that the big east tournament puts their tournament on there every year, would MSG be willing to forgo an annual contract with one league in order to get a contract every 4-5 years with another? That is a huge question. If there was a threat from the ACC on that issue, the Big east could say, fine, we'll hold our tournament in Newark/Brooklyn, and MSG would suddenly be looking at 1 tournament every 4 years instead of 1 tournament every year and would likely cave. I think the more likely situation is that the big east keeps the garden and the ACC plays in brooklyn or new jersey
    Well, part of the answer may be in how powerful the new Big East is. If it is severely weakened, it may not be in much of a position to threaten the Garden. Still, you make a good point.

    -Jason "it will be interesting to see how the Big East survives this... I bet it tries to raid teams from the A-10 and Conf USA... they could end up being the other big losers in all this" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  17. #557
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    Feb 2007
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    New York, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    Certainly, and the ACC will no doubt have the big bucks. St. Johns would likely have some sway, seeing as they have a long history/relationship with the garden, but I don't think it would be enough to hold an ACC with (assuming Uconn and rutgers) several teams with fanbases in the area and a larger coffer of funds to pay back if they indeed wanted to put the tournament there. What would make me unsure, though, is that the big east tournament puts their tournament on there every year, would MSG be willing to forgo an annual contract with one league in order to get a contract every 4-5 years with another? That is a huge question. If there was a threat from the ACC on that issue, the Big east could say, fine, we'll hold our tournament in Newark/Brooklyn, and MSG would suddenly be looking at 1 tournament every 4 years instead of 1 tournament every year and would likely cave. I think the more likely situation is that the big east keeps the garden and the ACC plays in brooklyn or new jersey
    If the ACC wanted 1/4 years at MSG, the BE could go to Philly 1/4 years. Of course, they may not be very interested in being conciliatory towards the ACC these days.

  18. #558
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    -Jason "it will be interesting to see how the Big East survives this... I bet it tries to raid teams from the A-10 and Conf USA... they could end up being the other big losers in all this" Evans
    Schools that I bet get targeted by the BEast -- Temple (for sure!), Xavier, Memphis, ECU, Tulane, Houston, Army?, Navy?

    -Jason "Temple would be at the top of my wish list-- great hoops tradition and football has been decent in recent years" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  19. #559
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnb View Post
    If the ACC wanted 1/4 years at MSG, the BE could go to Philly 1/4 years. Of course, they may not be very interested in being conciliatory towards the ACC these days.
    The Meadowlands have been kinda nice to us over the years:>)).

  20. #560
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    Quote Originally Posted by formerdukeathlete View Post
    The current ACC deal was negotiated at the depths of the 08-09 financial crisis.
    Yeah, cause things are soooo much better today than they were in 08-09

    -Jason
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

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