The Conference Realignment Vigil- Update: Terps to Big10?

[ForkFondler]

You are so right! And there are few fans as vociferous as Syracuse lax fans, so if any of them are checking out DBR (perhaps unlikely), they are probably fuming.

As it happens, though, this move could have a dramatic impact on lacrosse. With only four teams playing men's lacrosse (Duke, UNC, UVA, Md.), the ACC does not count as an "official" conference for NCAA purposes and does not get an automatic qualifier in the 16-team NCAA tournament--but the four teams are among the best and virtually always all get at-large spots. Syracuse will make a 5th team--still not enough (6 are needed) for an AQ. But games every year between Syracuse and the other four ACC teams will raise all 5 teams' strength of schedule and make them all locks for at large spots, if they weren't already. And it will give fans three or four more (Syracuse usually schedules at least one ACC team already) terrific regular season games every year.

It's not like the AQ is going to make any difference. It is pretty rare for any ACC team to get left out of the tourney these days. A 5 team ACC tourney would be kind of clunky. But there will probably be 1 or 2 more. Adding ND would be crazy too. Rutgers and PSU also have men's lacrosse.

[Verga3]

Really, let's focus people. The B12 scenarios are all dead now. WV is not going to be in the ACC, get over it. There is a very short list of candidates for #15 and #16:

1) UConn
2) Rutgers
3) ND
4) Penn St

The only reason we haven't jumped on the first two is because we might be able to snatch one or both of the other two.

Hope you are right on the snatching. Can assure you that the ACC is leaving no stone unturned.

[ForkFondler]

It sounds like an all-but-done deal; the Heartland pod (UT, TT, OK, and OKSt) is off to the left coast:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...cording-source

[Oriole Way]

Any chance of the ACC going after Notre Dame and Penn State? That would be a hell of a mega-conference.

[Newton_14]

Hope you are right on the snatching. Can assure you that the ACC is leaving no stone unturned.

Based on the current Twitter noise, you are correct. There are a lot more than 4 teams in play, and Rutgers is now on the outside looking in. UConn trying hard to be ACC Team 15. The ACC appears to be weighing many options and turning over all of those stones...


@BlueDevilNation
Mark Watson Rutgers is on the outside looking in and Texas is PAC 10 bound. The teams I am hearing now are inteteresting. UConn trying to get in.
3 hours ago via web

[uh_no]

Any chance of the ACC going after Notre Dame and Penn State? That would be a hell of a mega-conference.

In four words, no.

(or I should say, they probably have, but they're not coming, anyway)

[Scorp4me]

First let me say I hate the expansion and look forward to the day when everyone down sizes again. But it's happening and I can still see the good and bad of it. I feel like I need to include that caveat in every post.

That being said why is everyone so anxious to split into divisions? For football I realize it's necessary, but if you've got 16 teams in a conference for basketball why not play each team once a year? Doesn't it negate some of the advantage of having teams in your conference if there is no chance of playing them each year (or even every other year or every 2 years)? Sure I hate giving up playing teams like UNC twice, but if we're going to move with the times then let's move with the times. Play every team once and have a true balanced basketball schedule.

As for UConn, despite uh_no's compelling evidence to the contrary, you can count me in as one who thinks they don't belong in the ACC. Not that thinks such as fit seem to matter.

For that matter I spent some time on the Pitt and Syracuse boards. It appears many of them feel they are moving to an inferior conference out of a necessity to survive and have a particular hate already of UNC and Duke. Why do I feel like we've just invited someone to the conference I'm afraid to turn our back on. Something tells me they aren't going to be quite as loyal as the current members. Welcome to the conference though!

[Verga3]

Any chance of the ACC going after Notre Dame and Penn State? That would be a hell of a mega-conference.

Remote, but good chance. How's that for an answer? Plenty of hurdles with the current ND TV deal and resulting revenue and with the Penn State/Big 10 TV revenue configuration. Probably a longshot. But, if ND and PSU look down the road at the "new" ACC as the premier Conference in the nation...and what it would mean to them financially, culturally, academically, recruiting-wise and in admissions to their universities in the years to come; then, I believe that the longshot becomes a reality.

Even if the ND/PSU "dream scenario" doesn't materialize, the ACC has already positively positioned itself for the future. Kudos to John Swofford, his staff, and the "4-4-4 Committee" for being way ahead of this curve for many months. Thanks, Commissioner, for all your efforts so far and those to come!!

[Indoor66]

Attachment 2057


Funny, I still don't see any coastline in this map.

At least Connecticut and NJ have a few miles of coastline (yea, I know Connecticut's southern aquatic border is really the Long Island Sound, but still...)

The heck you say. The northeast corner has coastline with the Missouri River. Get a grip.

[MCFinARL]

It's not like the AQ is going to make any difference. It is pretty rare for any ACC team to get left out of the tourney these days. A 5 team ACC tourney would be kind of clunky. But there will probably be 1 or 2 more. Adding ND would be crazy too. Rutgers and PSU also have men's lacrosse.

I agree--in fact, the AQ situation works the other way. Fans of other teams often feel the ACC is unfairly advantaged because they improve their SOS by playing each other multiple times (counting the league tournament), yet none of the teams occupies an AQ--so they take up a lot of at large spots. This situation will only be exacerbated by the addition of Syracuse. On the other hand, the actual performance of ACC teams in the NCAA lacrosse tournament, which has been extremely solid, provides a pretty strong counterargument to the folks who make this argument.

Regardless of the NCAA situation, it would be much better to have 6 teams, rather than 5, for tournament purposes. Much as I'd love to see Penn State be another addition, if only for renewal of the Penn State-Pitt rivalry (grew up in Pittsburgh and my dad went to Penn State), I'll be pretty surprised if that happens. And I'm not sure Notre Dame is likely either, though it would be a great fit in a lot of ways. Rutgers might happen, though, and that would work (though it would be very tough for their lacrosse program, which is not nearly as ready to take the field with the other ACC teams as Noter Dame or even Penn State). If none of those teams come on board, perhaps the addition of a 5th high quality team would entice one of the ACC teams that doesn't currently have a men's program to start (or in some cases, restore) one.

[Class of '94]

First let me say I hate the expansion and look forward to the day when everyone down sizes again. But it's happening and I can still see the good and bad of it. I feel like I need to include that caveat in every post.

That being said why is everyone so anxious to split into divisions? For football I realize it's necessary, but if you've got 16 teams in a conference for basketball why not play each team once a year? Doesn't it negate some of the advantage of having teams in your conference if there is no chance of playing them each year (or even every other year or every 2 years)? Sure I hate giving up playing teams like UNC twice, but if we're going to move with the times then let's move with the times. Play every team once and have a true balanced basketball schedule.

As for UConn, despite uh_no's compelling evidence to the contrary, you can count me in as one who thinks they don't belong in the ACC. Not that thinks such as fit seem to matter.

For that matter I spent some time on the Pitt and Syracuse boards. It appears many of them feel they are moving to an inferior conference out of a necessity to survive and have a particular hate already of UNC and Duke. Why do I feel like we've just invited someone to the conference I'm afraid to turn our back on. Something tells me they aren't going to be quite as loyal as the current members. Welcome to the conference though!

I don't think you can characterize the quality of a university and its administration as well as their intentions based on fan reactions on message boards. The fact that some may think that Pitt and Syracuse are moving to an inferior conference considering how flawed the Big East conference was is actually quite laughable. Those fans are probably Big East traditionalists and dissapointed in seeing their schools leave the Big East. I think these schools will be nice additions; and all of their fans will gain increased respoct for the ACC when they play against ACC teams across all sports. From reading comments from the each university's president and AD, they all seem very pleased about the move and plan to add value to the ACC.

[uh_no]

As for UConn, despite uh_no's compelling evidence to the contrary, you can count me in as one who thinks they don't belong in the ACC. Not that thinks such as fit seem to matter.

While I understand that everyone here hates Uconn, using their basketball team's recent NCAA issue as the sole determination that the school does not "fit" the ACC is kind of silly. As you have not stated the reasons behind your determination, I will have to assume its because you think a) calhoun is a cheater, thus b) everybody in the athletics department and school must also be cheaters and sleazy, or perhaps that the school is terrible academically since the school missed the APR last year (I believe Syracuse missed it also...for comparison's sake) Either way, if you think the transgressions of the basketball team are reason to bar them from the league (keeping in mind that by the time they would be able to join the league, they would no longer be on probation and calhoun long retired), then perhaps we should bar any team that has had past NCAA violations from the league, perhaps even show GT, UNC, Miami, FSU, and NCSU the boot...actually when I mention all those schools, it seems like the violations make Uconn MORE of a fit in the ACC.

Yes the last bit is in jest (somewhat), but I am curious, what other than your personal bias makes Uconn so fundamentally different from pitt, SU, or current ACC members that you think that they would not belong?

[OrangeDevil]

It's been a while since I've posted, but I did want to weigh in on this subject. While I acknowledge that there's virtually no chance of this happening, I wish the ACC (read Duke, UNC, UVA, Wake) would reach out to Vanderbilt (yes, Vanderbilt). It would greatly augment the already stellar academic profile of the conference and refortify the basketball fortunes. Realistically, I suspect the best bets are UConn and Rutgers.

On an unrelated subject, given all of the recent carping and hair-pulling over Duke football on this board, why has no one noticed the play of football recruit Deion Williams at Orange Lutheran in Southern California. The recruiting gurus seem to agree that Duke is getting a steal here. Incidentally, the quarterback, Conor Sullivan, on this very strong team is a Duke baseball recruit. Possible football walkon?

[Class of '94]

While I understand that everyone here hates Uconn, using their basketball team's recent NCAA issue as the sole determination that the school does not "fit" the ACC is kind of silly. As you have not stated the reasons behind your determination, I will have to assume its because you think a) calhoun is a cheater, thus b) everybody in the athletics department and school must also be cheaters and sleazy, or perhaps that the school is terrible academically since the school missed the APR last year (I believe Syracuse missed it also...for comparison's sake) Either way, if you think the transgressions of the basketball team are reason to bar them from the league (keeping in mind that by the time they would be able to join the league, they would no longer be on probation and calhoun long retired), then perhaps we should bar any team that has had past NCAA violations from the league, perhaps even show GT, UNC, Miami, FSU, and NCSU the boot...actually when I mention all those schools, it seems like the violations make Uconn MORE of a fit in the ACC.

Yes the last bit is in jest (somewhat), but I am curious, what other than your personal bias makes Uconn so fundamentally different from pitt, SU, or current ACC members that you think that they would not belong?

I find it really hard to see UConn left out in the cold and not become part of the ACC due to the fact that they near ESPM hq; and with espn controlling the ACC tv contracts, I could easily see them sweetening the new conract deals if the ACC includes UConn. My only question is who would be the 16th school? Kentucky, Vandy, Kansas, Rutgers or another school that we all would be surprised to hear?

[devildeac]

The heck you say. The northeast corner has coastline with the Missouri River. Get a grip.

Rivers have banks.

Oceans/seas have coasts.

Ooh, wait a minute. Definition # 5 from the Thorndike-Barnhart dictionary says: Archaic. the border or boundary of a country. You must be archaic then and thinking of that old-fashioned/out-of-date/ancient definition.

But, then again, Kansas is not a country.

[Verga3]

It's been a while since I've posted, but I did want to weigh in on this subject. While I acknowledge that there's virtually no chance of this happening, I wish the ACC (read Duke, UNC, UVA, Wake) would reach out to Vanderbilt (yes, Vanderbilt). It would greatly augment the already stellar academic profile of the conference and refortify the basketball fortunes. Realistically, I suspect the best bets are UConn and Rutgers.

On an unrelated subject, given all of the recent carping and hair-pulling over Duke football on this board, why has no one noticed the play of football recruit Deion Williams at Orange Lutheran in Southern California. The recruiting gurus seem to agree that Duke is getting a steal here. Incidentally, the quarterback, Conor Sullivan, on this very strong team is a Duke baseball recruit. Possible football walkon?

OrangeDevil, love Vandy as a good fit for the ACC. I'm sure they have already made contact. They are not as strong as a financial boost, but a perfect fit otherwise. I would love to have them in the ACC for lots of reasons, not the least of which is Nashville!

[TexHawk]

Kansas has to come with KST though, and i'm not sure KST fits in academically, and even kansas is about the level of FSU and NCSU, who are the pits of the ACC in terms of academics. I think the ACC going west ship has sailed, and if the current members are to invite others, they will come from the east coast.

As has been posted in this very thread a couple of times already, this statement is not accurate.

[uh_no]

As has been posted in this very thread a couple of times already, this statement is not accurate.

Ah, I am wrong. Thanks for pointing it out.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...-stay-together

I should note that while not guaranteed, the schools have every expectation of remaining together.

[jimsumner]

Let me throw out another name.

What do folks think of Temple?

Great hoops tradition and their football program has done a Lazarus. Not sure if they can sustain that but right now they're better than Rutgers and Syracuse.

And Philly is one of the few major NE cities that actually cares about college basketball.

Then again, it's not a big school, doesn't have a big alumni base, lacks facilities and I'm not sure it's the kind of national research university the ACC covets.

They don't seem to be in the mix, so this likely is a moot/mute/moo point. Should they be in the mix?

[Class of '94]

As per Airowe's tweets, here is a link to an article that suggests that Rutgers could go either the ACC or the Big 10. http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/in...ntact_wit.html

Also, there is a tweet on Airowe's Duke Hoop Blog's twitter account that an BE source expects UConn and Rutgers to leave the Big East. From the article above, I found it interesting that Rutgers "would privately prefer to go to the Big 10"; but gladly accept an offer to join the ACC if it was offered first. Could somone please explain to me why Rutgers would prefer to go to the Big 10 over the Big East when geographically the ACC is better a fit. Is it because of the Big 10 network deal or the AAU status of most of the schools in the Big 10 [eventhough the ACC is an academically strong conference as well]?