The Conference Realignment Vigil- Update: Terps to Big10?

[OldPhiKap]

the problem is that without rutgers, is there is no presence in NYC whatsoever...and there is so much potential there...especially if a new look big east doesn't use MSG for their tournament, the possibility of having the ACCT in MSG every 3-5 years certainly opens up much easier with an ACC team in the area.

NYC is a challenge. In hoops, it's the Johnnies but St. J. doesn't have football. In football, well -- football is played on Sunday. Jets and Giants are the only football teams that matter in the tri-state area.

[loran16]

the problem is that without rutgers, is there is no presence in NYC whatsoever...and there is so much potential there...especially if a new look big east doesn't use MSG for their tournament, the possibility of having the ACCT in MSG every 3-5 years certainly opens up much easier with an ACC team in the area.

NYC is a challenge. In hoops, it's the Johnnies but St. J. doesn't have football. In football, well -- football is played on Sunday. Jets and Giants are the only football teams that matter in the tri-state area.

Errr neither of you guys are from NYC are you. SYRACUSE is as big a team in NYC as St. Johns. Seriously, they own the Garden for the Big East Tourney. They alone give us an NYC presence.

[loran16]

Errr neither of you guys are from NYC are you. SYRACUSE is as big a team in NYC as St. Johns. Seriously, they own the Garden for the Big East Tourney. They alone give us an NYC presence.

Also, Rutgers has near no presence in NYC proper, tho it's covered as part of the NY-NJ media.

[uh_no]

Being from CT, I don't think this is necessarily true. I think it is fairly mutual and deep.

We both have a lot of experience with both sides of the issue, then. I feel that much of the Duke hate stems from Uconn getting 2 of its 3 national titles at the expense of more Duke titles. THe uconn fans don't really have a similar experience of Duke costing them anything. So while there is certainly disdain, I don't recall NEARLY the same animosity when duke won two years ago in CT/from people I know at Uconn as I did here when uconn won last year. The hate of the uconn kids I feel is sort of the same way that everyone hates duke, and everyone hates the yankees, and though there is somewhat of a rivalry, and uconn kids would LOVE to beat duke again....I never get teh feeling that its at the forefront of people's minds as it is here. (just look at the threads spewing hate here for anything uconn related: kemba and his book, andre drummond being a meathead who stole a scholarship from someone, the NCAA violations..) aside from UNC, i would guess that more words here are directed to Uconn than any other school.

[ForkFondler]

I'll be disappointed if UConn joins but not as disappointed as I would be about Rutgers...that school adds nothing (how many people in NYC pull for Rutgers, honestly? 5?)

Rutgers is the one and only major public school in a major east coast state. If we want to sew up the east coast, we should have them. We may not get New York City, but we will get Newark and the rest of NJ

[loldevilz]

My choices would be UCONN and Notre Dame. And I really don't want UCONN without Notre Dame.

[A-Tex Devil]

It appears the PAC 12 may be starting to get it.

While I had hoped the Big 12 might survive this was always the most likely outcome all along once OU piped up. While all of he sound bytes leaked to press made it seem like there is no room to move on either side, the smart people are working out a deal behind the scenes. One that seems like a pretty damn good deal for the PAC 12(16) and Texas.

And the ACC is stronger for it too. Not bad.

[OldPhiKap]

We both have a lot of experience with both sides of the issue, then. I feel that much of the Duke hate stems from Uconn getting 2 of its 3 national titles at the expense of more Duke titles. THe uconn fans don't really have a similar experience of Duke costing them anything. So while there is certainly disdain, I don't recall NEARLY the same animosity when duke won two years ago in CT/from people I know at Uconn as I did here when uconn won last year. The hate of the uconn kids I feel is sort of the same way that everyone hates duke, and everyone hates the yankees, and though there is somewhat of a rivalry, and uconn kids would LOVE to beat duke again....I never get teh feeling that its at the forefront of people's minds as it is here. (just look at the threads spewing hate here for anything uconn related: kemba and his book, andre drummond being a meathead who stole a scholarship from someone, the NCAA violations..) aside from UNC, i would guess that more words here are directed to Uconn than any other school.

I go back to the 1990 Tourney -- the first big clash between Calhoun and K -- where Duke knocked UConn out on Laettner's inbound play (the "special audible"). True that Calhoun has had the upper hand in recent meetings, so the bad feelings in Storrs may have faded or perhaps it is generational.

[Des Esseintes]

Also, Rutgers has near no presence in NYC proper, tho it's covered as part of the NY-NJ media.

This is correct. Syracuse has a far larger presence in NYC than St. John's or Rutgers these days. That might change if either program was consistently good (once more, if we are talking St. John's). Rutgers especially baffles me. I'm sure they have fans; in ten years in New York--five of which spent dating a Jersey native--I haven't encountered a single Rutgers partisan.

[OldPhiKap]

Errr neither of you guys are from NYC are you. SYRACUSE is as big a team in NYC as St. Johns. Seriously, they own the Garden for the Big East Tourney. They alone give us an NYC presence.

Errr, born and raised in the tri-state area. Unless Syracuse somehow plays football in the Garden, i'm not sure it goes to the question of getting a football presence in NYC on Saturdays. You would agree that "football" in the market means the Giants and Jets, no?

Re: basketball -- the fact that Syracuse "owns the Garden" once a year does not a steady presence make. But if you want to assert that the NYC market tunes in to Syracuse basketball, well -- we've already gotten that now so there's no reason to really worry about that market. But there is a BIG difference between NYC and upstate -- half the folks in The City couldn't point out Syracuse on a map.

[nmduke2001]

I wonder if K removes Boeheim from his USA coaching staff? Not sure you want a conference foe on your staff.

[OldPhiKap]

I wonder if K removes Boeheim from his USA coaching staff? Not sure you want a conference foe on your staff.

I think they will both have pretty good insights on the other, for sure.

Don't see K making a change, but interesting question.

[SCMatt33]

Here's my take on Rutgers. It's pretty much a given that there is a very limited fan base for Rutgers anywhere. The entirety of the Northeast megalopolis cares much more about their professional teams than their college teams. That doesn't mean that no one cares about college sports, but when you read the paper and listen to the radio, college stuff takes second billing. Add this to the fact that Rutgers has been pretty bad for a pretty long time in both revenue sports, you get a team that no many people care about.

From the standpoint of adding value to a TV deal, Rutgers by itself doesn't do much for you. However, in the TV world, Disney wields a lot of power through ESPN. I'm sure the ACC is doing some major due dilligence behind the scenes on Rutgers, and how much they (in conjuction with 'Cuse) would turn NYC into an "ACC market." If ESPN can use their power to get local stations throughout the entire NYC TV marketto carry ACC network games, get ACC games priority when Saturday college football lineups are determined, and get Cablevision to carry a hypothetical full blown "ACC Network" down the road, Rutgers would be entirely worth it. If not, they aren't worth a hill of beans. If it does happen, NYC will get non-Rutgers ACC content, and if there are some good games, there will be enough viewers, based on the sheer numbers in the NYC area. The same thing would apply to UConn. It may be the case where none of those three schools are enough to convince anyone to make NYC an ACC market on their own, but all three together could possibly make it happen.

The other thing to consider is that now that Pitt and 'Cuse are in the fold, if 16 is going to happen now, going west is likely no longer an option. It wouldn't have been too hard to convince a western school to come east all the time if they were doing it as a block of 4. Since there would likely be no more than two schools coming, I can't see the case where someone of value would agree to play 14 of 15 games on the east coast. Because of this, the ACC's likely options for 16 come from the Big East.

[uh_no]

I wonder if K removes Boeheim from his USA coaching staff? Not sure you want a conference foe on your staff.

Syracuse won't be here until after the olympics next year, and I don't think K will coach the national team after that.

[Verga3]

There have been quite a few posts on PSU joining the ACC. Most compelling are the potential recruiting bump, olympic sports improvement, and reduced travel expenses. The negative short-term financial impact is not ignored, but some suggest PSU will be kicking themselves in 5 years or so for not taking this opportunity, as the upswing ACC begins to trump the Big 10 in the TV revenue area as well. Some have more insight than me in the TV deal area, but I do believe that when contracts are renogotiated, the ACC will be well-positioned for the future with these new teams and markets. Whatever the outcome, just very glad the ACC is leading.

[Class of '94]

Spend a weekend in Cashiers Valley and everything hits the fan. Wow.

I agree that the ACC should reject Texas if it won't come in for all sports and share the conference TV deals equally. And it looks like that is what will happen. But, what is so objectionable about a school controlling it's right for games and sports below the second tier? All of the SEC does it. If ACC rejects Texas for THAT, I would be disappointed, because if the Texas model works, it is a model that Duke, UNC and others could emulate for the good of their athletic departments and institutions. Unfortunately the media and others have so distorted what the LHN is and it's mission, that I am afraid the PR war is too far gone.

Texas is playing the guinea pig for a potentially new way of distributing sports and other school related media to a school's fan base. Its unfortunate that "OMG high school games!!1!!" and "it's so unfair!" reactions here and elsewhere in the media and inter webs are clouding what could be a new model for all schools. In fact, schools are doing LHn type things already on a smaller scale - K-State for one. Is isn't about competing against other schools as Aggies and others would have you believe. It's about giving alumni and fans more access through a delivery system run by the entity that knows best what those fans want. The school. Not the conference.

For me, it's not so much about the LHN that has me a little leary of bringing Texas into the ACC; it was the possible scenario of Texas and ND joining the conference in all sports but football; and Texas being allowed to be an independent in football. In that scenario, it would have been great for Texas but no so much for the ACC; and I think it's that type of scenario that paints the perception of being all about Texas and nothing but Texas.

[Class of '94]

It appears the PAC 12 may be starting to get it.

While I had hoped the Big 12 might survive this was always the most likely outcome all along once OU piped up. While all of he sound bytes leaked to press made it seem like there is no room to move on either side, the smart people are working out a deal behind the scenes. One that seems like a pretty damn good deal for the PAC 12(16) and Texas.

And the ACC is stronger for it too. Not bad.

I'm not sure if this was what was proposed to the ACC. From all accounts, Texas was hoping espn would've been able to work something out in order to allow Texas to keep the LHN and all the profits while being independent in football while being able to funnel all of their olympic sports through the ACC. Again, win-win for Texas, not as much potentially for the ACC in that scenario. And from that link, it still looks like Texas will still have to share some of it's 3rd tier profits to the PAC-12 [16] conference anyway. It now appears to me that Texas was pushing for the PAC-12 all along but was trying to use the ACC to strengthn its position with the PAC-12 in order to get what they want with regards to the LHN and keeping the majority of the profits from network for itself. The nice thing about all of this is that the ACC was proactive and didn't get caught up with any unfavorable Texas maneuvering. All in all, if it was a fair deal to the ACC, I would've loved to have had Texas (and possibly) ND in the ACC. It would've benefited all of our sports. Saying that, ND might still be in play although I seem them gong to the Big 10; and the addition of possibly UConn adds a decent football program and incredible basketball program; which would cement IMO the ACC as the undisputable best conference for basketball. I just wonder if the addition of a UConn and some other team not named ND would appease all schools in the ACC enough to keep them in the fold.

[78Devil]

I can't imagine wanting Connecticut in the ACC. Their track record on ethical issues and the kind of players they recruit -- at least in basketball -- is not worthy of our conference. And I laugh when people discuss Pitt as a good "academic" fit for the ACC. Syracuse isn't so bad, but probably only because I like Boeheim. Frankly, I've never heard of them in any other sports. I certainly do not view the addition of Pitt and Syracuse as particularly good for our conference.

Penn State and Notre Dame are different issues. If we had to add someone, and they were interested, they would add alot --they really are good academic institutions with long athletic histories in multiple sports. But it doesn't sound like those are realistic possibilities. And I would love to see us add Georgetown, if they were interested. But I haven't heard anything about that.

I really would like the ACC to try to be a little more consistent in adding schools who are not NCAA violations waiting to happen...

[uh_no]

I can't imagine wanting Connecticut in the ACC. Their track record on ethical issues and the kind of players they recruit -- at least in basketball -- is not worthy of our conference. And I laugh when people discuss Pitt as a good "academic" fit for the ACC. Syracuse isn't so bad, but probably only because I like Boeheim. Frankly, I've never heard of them in any other sports. I certainly do not view the addition of Pitt and Syracuse as particularly good for our conference.

Penn State and Notre Dame are different issues. If we had to add someone, and they were interested, they would add alot --they really are good academic institutions with long athletic histories in multiple sports. But it doesn't sound like those are realistic possibilities. And I would love to see us add Georgetown, if they were interested. But I haven't heard anything about that.

I really would like the ACC to try to be a little more consistent in adding schools who are not NCAA violations waiting to happen...

perhaps you should take a look at the actual school rankings...pitt is #19 on the public university list, just behind maryland, and ahead of clemson, FSU, VT, and NCSU...seems like a pretty darn good "fit" to me.

Perhaps you should take a look at syracuse's lacrosse team if you haven't heard of them in any other sports....

Why would the ACC add georgetown, a school without a football team? perhaps that's why you haven't heard of it

[anon]

A question for those in the know:

I realize there are more pressing issues right now, like further expansion, but I have only seen passing references to when Syracuse and Pitt will actually join the conference. A few sources say there is a "negotiable" 27-month wait. Does anyone have a good idea when we'll actually see the new conference, or is this still something to be worked out by the lawyers?