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  1. #1641
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Personally, as much as I actually respect Leonard Hamilton and what he's doing, if FSU and some other football school bail on the ACC and get replaced by two basketball schools, I'm going to be nothing but happy. Their commitment to the conference has always been suspect, and I have absolutely no problem with being viewed purely as the premier basketball conference -- even if it does end up costing a few million in revenue per year. (While more money would be nice for the schools, for the life of me I just cannot figure out what tangible effect it would have on me as a fan.)

    Sign me up for Georgetown or Rutgers or Louisville or St. John's or hey, even UCONN (although their future is in doubt). Just give me more basketball. Good, competitive basketball. That's why I watch the ACC. Above all, don't throw that away forn the sake of a football conference that will never be anything beyond mediocre (in both revenue and competition).

    Besides, I suspect that a slightly less profitable, basketball-centric conference would actually end up being more stable, as people would be less interested in poaching our teams once FSU is no longer seeding instability.
    "With seven national titles and 20 Final Fours in the 64-team NCAA Tournament era, Duke and UNC have had more playoff success than any other CONFERENCE." - Al Featherston

  2. #1642
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    New York, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by Jderf View Post
    Personally, as much as I actually respect Leonard Hamilton and what he's doing, if FSU and some other football school bail on the ACC and get replaced by two basketball schools, I'm going to be nothing but happy. Their commitment to the conference has always been suspect, and I have absolutely no problem with being viewed purely as the premier basketball conference -- even if it does end up costing a few million in revenue per year. (While more money would be nice for the schools, for the life of me I just cannot figure out what tangible effect it would have on me as a fan.)

    Sign me up for Georgetown or Rutgers or Louisville or St. John's or hey, even UCONN (although their future is in doubt). Just give me more basketball. Good, competitive basketball. That's why I watch the ACC. Above all, don't throw that away forn the sake of a football conference that will never be anything beyond mediocre (in both revenue and competition).

    Besides, I suspect that a slightly less profitable, basketball-centric conference would actually end up being more stable, as people would be less interested in poaching our teams once FSU is no longer seeding instability.
    If we have learned anything at all throughout this realignment process, it's that basketball is not part of the equation. Period.

    - Chillin

  3. #1643
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by ChillinDuke View Post
    If we have learned anything at all throughout this realignment process, it's that basketball is not part of the equation. Period.

    - Chillin
    But we're still the ACC, right? If basketball isn't part of the equation, then what is? I realize that other conferences and schools are definitely not occupying themselves primarily with basketball, but I have to imagine the Swofford is (somewhat, I'd hope), as well as at least a handful of our ADs. Besides, if FSU and another school jump ship, are there even going to be any respectable football schools left who would still want to throw their chips into the ACC pot? Unless Notre Dame or Penn State gets on board and leads us all to Shangri-La, I feel like we would have no choice but to turn towards basketball. And I truly believe that there could still be a niche out there for a mostly basketball conference with smaller revenues but higher stability.

    Still, there is always the possibility that I am being naive. I definitely don't follow all this as colsely as others.
    "With seven national titles and 20 Final Fours in the 64-team NCAA Tournament era, Duke and UNC have had more playoff success than any other CONFERENCE." - Al Featherston

  4. #1644
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by ChillinDuke View Post
    If we have learned anything at all throughout this realignment process, it's that basketball is not part of the equation. Period.

    - Chillin
    I tend to disagree. Basketball is just not as big of a deal at the conference level. Look how much CBS pays the NCAA for the tournament, however. There are people in this realignment mess playing the short term and the long term. Sometimes it's more obvious than others. ESPN is unequivocally playing the long game, but at the same time taking advantage of those that want instant gratification.

    Locking the ACC up on the (relatively) cheap and positioning it to be the premiere (by far) basketball conference in America is a huge step towards setting up ESPN to take another stab at the NCAA tourney when the CBS contract is up (which is quite a while from now, granted).

    The fact that the ACC contract came out within a week after the FSU rumors starting to heat up isn't a coincidence in my mind. ESPN had to know FSU/Clemson et al wouldn't be happy with that contract. ESPN certainly was in a position of leverage since it wasn't an open market negotiation. But I am beginning to believe that ESPN knew what would happen and is also positioning the ACC to further strengthen basketball if some of the football schools do head out.

  5. #1645
    Quote Originally Posted by Jderf View Post
    But we're still the ACC, right? If basketball isn't part of the equation, then what is? I realize that other conferences and schools are definitely not occupying themselves primarily with basketball, but I have to imagine the Swofford is (somewhat, I'd hope), as well as at least a handful of our ADs. Besides, if FSU and another school jump ship, are there even going to be any respectable football schools left who would still want to throw their chips into the ACC pot? Unless Notre Dame or Penn State gets on board and leads us all to Shangri-La, I feel like we would have no choice but to turn towards basketball. And I truly believe that there could still be a niche out there for a mostly basketball conference with smaller revenues but higher stability.

    Still, there is always the possibility that I am being naive. I definitely don't follow all this as colsely as others.
    Unless Georgetown develops a div ! football program, I don't see the ACC adding Georgetown. Also, I can't see Pitt pulling a TCU and hopping on the Big 12 bandwagon. Pitt doesn't look like a good fit culturally and definitely geographically for the Big 12 and vice-versa. Maybe FSU and possibly Miami and/or Clemson (as well as others) leave at some point for the Big 12; but I don't think the grass will be greener on the other side when you consider competition and geographical logistics. I would like to see everyone stick together and then expand with ND and/or a Louisville, Uconn or Rutgers. Bottom line though is that FSU and Miami just need to become dominant in football again and ACC football will be better overall and better perceived.

  6. #1646

    Basketball is second fiddle

    Quote Originally Posted by ChillinDuke View Post
    If we have learned anything at all throughout this realignment process, it's that basketball is not part of the equation. Period.

    - Chillin
    As much as I love college basketball, the demise of the Big East serves as a warning to the ACC. The Big East has been the best college basketball conference the past few years and covers many of the biggest and best media markets in the country, but it proved to be unstable. It just doesn't work.

    Success in college football is required be a thriving conference these days.

  7. #1647
    Quote Originally Posted by pamtelp View Post
    As much as I love college basketball, the demise of the Big East serves as a warning to the ACC. The Big East has been the best college basketball conference the past few years and covers many of the biggest and best media markets in the country, but it proved to be unstable. It just doesn't work.

    Success in college football is required be a thriving conference these days.
    A-Tex Devil gave the example of KU the other day, and how much more money they would earn annually with the handshake Big12 TV deal coming up + Tier 3. As a fan of CBB in general, a powerhouse ACC hoops conference would be awesome. But if the cost was lower revenue, can the ACC keep up with KU, UK, UCLA, Ohio St, Michigan St, etc.? I am pretty confident that Duke/UNC can, but I don't know about the others.

  8. #1648
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    New York, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by A-Tex Devil View Post
    I tend to disagree. Basketball is just not as big of a deal at the conference level. Look how much CBS pays the NCAA for the tournament, however. There are people in this realignment mess playing the short term and the long term. Sometimes it's more obvious than others. ESPN is unequivocally playing the long game, but at the same time taking advantage of those that want instant gratification.

    Locking the ACC up on the (relatively) cheap and positioning it to be the premiere (by far) basketball conference in America is a huge step towards setting up ESPN to take another stab at the NCAA tourney when the CBS contract is up (which is quite a while from now, granted).

    The fact that the ACC contract came out within a week after the FSU rumors starting to heat up isn't a coincidence in my mind. ESPN had to know FSU/Clemson et al wouldn't be happy with that contract. ESPN certainly was in a position of leverage since it wasn't an open market negotiation. But I am beginning to believe that ESPN knew what would happen and is also positioning the ACC to further strengthen basketball if some of the football schools do head out.
    First, I would like to extend a thank you to you, A-Tex for your excellent insight throughout this whole realignment process (read: mess).

    Second, perhaps I'm talking too dramatically. And perhaps I haven't followed your entire logic, A-Tex. But if basketball is indeed a big deal in this, why do Notre Dame and Texas hold some of the biggest cards, why has the Big East essentially fallen apart, why were we talking about (maybe last summer) who would be the colleges left out in this musical chairs (some speculated Duke, Kansas, K State, etc), I could go on.

    Basketball seems to have very little sway in the realignment process. I won't say no sway. But I will say very little.

    I stand by my point, but feel free to correct me if I'm off the reservation on this.

    - Chillin

    Edit: And J-Derf, to your point, I absolutely am concerned with ACC basketball first and foremost and am happy that we are in a position of strength in that area. However, a position of strength in that area doesn't seem to move the needle realignment-wise. We've seen it time and again as this pot boils and then cools and then boils up again.

  9. #1649
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York, NY
    ODU bolts the Colonial for C-USA. Will be interesting to see whether there are other schools that the Colonial wants to go after. I don't know, as a conference, what their academic requirements are like (if any, beyond what the NCAA has). They play FBS football, although have a basketball-only schools, so football probably is not a requirement. Perhaps a school like Belmont (would definitely be a promotion from the A-Sun). Or, maybe they'll be content to stand pat at 9 schools.
    Just be you. You is enough. - K, 4/5/10, 0:13.8 to play, 60-59 Duke.

    You're all jealous hypocrites. - Titus on Laettner

    You see those guys? Animals. They're animals. - SIU Coach Chris Lowery, on Duke

  10. #1650
    Quote Originally Posted by Jderf View Post
    Personally, as much as I actually respect Leonard Hamilton and what he's doing, if FSU and some other football school bail on the ACC and get replaced by two basketball schools, I'm going to be nothing but happy. Their commitment to the conference has always been suspect, and I have absolutely no problem with being viewed purely as the premier basketball conference -- even if it does end up costing a few million in revenue per year. (While more money would be nice for the schools, for the life of me I just cannot figure out what tangible effect it would have on me as a fan.)

    Sign me up for Georgetown or Rutgers or Louisville or St. John's or hey, even UCONN (although their future is in doubt). Just give me more basketball. Good, competitive basketball. That's why I watch the ACC. Above all, don't throw that away forn the sake of a football conference that will never be anything beyond mediocre (in both revenue and competition).

    Besides, I suspect that a slightly less profitable, basketball-centric conference would actually end up being more stable, as people would be less interested in poaching our teams once FSU is no longer seeding instability.
    I pretty much agree with your sentiments as far as my personal preference. I don't care about college football and it doesn't bother me in the least if Duke and ACC football remain in perpetual suckdom. The problem is that I don't think many other schools in our basketball centric conference would stick around if the ACC threw up the proverbial white towel regarding football. VT, Clemson, GT, FSU, Miami, BC and Pitt are certainly going to bolt. I really doubt the other schools save Duke and Wake would stay either if the ACC became completely irrelevant in football. So it is probably necessary for the ACC to be competitive in football dollars race in order to remain a great hoops conference.

    I'm opposed to paying the players but it sure does make the NCAA's amateur sports argument look silly when their member institutions practically hike up their skirts at every stranger passing by.

  11. #1651
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by ChillinDuke View Post
    First, I would like to extend a thank you to you, A-Tex for your excellent insight throughout this whole realignment process (read: mess).

    Second, perhaps I'm talking too dramatically. And perhaps I haven't followed your entire logic, A-Tex. But if basketball is indeed a big deal in this, why do Notre Dame and Texas hold some of the biggest cards, why has the Big East essentially fallen apart, why were we talking about (maybe last summer) who would be the colleges left out in this musical chairs (some speculated Duke, Kansas, K State, etc), I could go on.

    Basketball seems to have very little sway in the realignment process. I won't say no sway. But I will say very little.

    I stand by my point, but feel free to correct me if I'm off the reservation on this.

    - Chillin

    Edit: And J-Derf, to your point, I absolutely am concerned with ACC basketball first and foremost and am happy that we are in a position of strength in that area. However, a position of strength in that area doesn't seem to move the needle realignment-wise. We've seen it time and again as this pot boils and then cools and then boils up again.
    Thanks. Appreciate the words. I don't disagree that football drives the realignment bus and basketball is a long for the ride. I guess what I mean is that there is still money in college basketball. A ton. It's just tied up in the NCAA tourney. I know what I am about to say is anathema, and akin to predicting a future not unlike "The Road" for Duke basketball and ACC basketball fans, but the end game for many big hitters in college football (Chuck Neinas, Oliver Luck, most SEC ADs whether they admit or not to name some) is for major football conferences to break away from the NCAA. And if college football does that, the next step may be taking college basketball with it, and doing to the NCAAs what the NCAAs did to the NIT many years ago. I do believe the former will happen, probably by the end of the decade. I don't believe the latter has to happen along with it, but it's certainly a possibility. If it does, it will be interesting to follow the money.

  12. #1652
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Tampa
    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    I pretty much agree with your sentiments as far as my personal preference. I don't care about college football and it doesn't bother me in the least if Duke and ACC football remain in perpetual suckdom. The problem is that I don't think many other schools in our basketball centric conference would stick around if the ACC threw up the proverbial white towel regarding football. VT, Clemson, GT, FSU, Miami, BC and Pitt are certainly going to bolt. I really doubt the other schools save Duke and Wake would stay either if the ACC became completely irrelevant in football. So it is probably necessary for the ACC to be competitive in football dollars race in order to remain a great hoops conference.

    I'm opposed to paying the players but it sure does make the NCAA's amateur sports argument look silly when their member institutions practically hike up their skirts at every stranger passing by.
    I'm opposed to Duke "fans" not caring if Duke Football "remain[s] in perpetual suckdom."
    ___________________
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    Trinity '97, Tent #1 '97
    Tampa

  13. #1653
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX

    SEC/Big XII Alliance

    Interesting. Big XII and SEC are the two conferences that have come out against guaranteeing any spots in a four team playoff to conference champions.

    Barnhart basically says it's a similar alliance to the one the Big Ten and Pac XII currently have if neither have a team in the BCS championship game. There are obviously potential implications here, even if not explicit --- what does it mean for ACC? Does it push ND to a conference that requires conference champions? Does it embolden ND to side with the SEC/Big XII alliance so they can stay independent?

    This isn't a one off game added to the schedule in my view. This is a message.

  14. #1654
    Quote Originally Posted by msdukie View Post
    I'm opposed to Duke "fans" not caring if Duke Football "remain[s] in perpetual suckdom."
    No need to oppose me. I'm a lifelong fan of ACC and Duke basketball but unfortunately not a Duke alum. I don't think I've ever watched a duke football game and I don't even know much less care whether they win or lose. I understand it's different for alumni but I think you are probably never going to win the ACC much less a natty in football. Realistically speaking would you really want to see Duke chase that goal considering the ethical/academic compromises it would seem to demand anyway?

  15. #1655
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis
    Schlabach is acting all apocalyptic about the new bowl.

    http://espn.go.com/college-football/...eath-knell-acc

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  16. #1656
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    Schlabach is acting all apocalyptic about the new bowl.

    http://espn.go.com/college-football/...eath-knell-acc
    It's a reasonable position. But if any sort of playoff gets off the ground - even if just four teams - it'll expand (cf "march madness") and completely subsume or marginalize the bowls.

    -jk

  17. #1657
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    It's a reasonable position. But if any sort of playoff gets off the ground - even if just four teams - it'll expand (cf "march madness") and completely subsume or marginalize the bowls.

    -jk
    That's probably right. This game is more a shot across the bow at PAC 12/Big10 alliance than anything else. It acknowledges a 4 team playoff is coming so this new game will rarely pit the champs against each other. But the PAC/Big 10 and the SEC/Big 12 want a different kind of playoff. It's a signal that there is a new alliance in town. One that has won 10 of 14 BCS championships.

  18. #1658

    State and VTech Possible Targets of SEC?

    Interesting article from The Tennessean regarding expansion:

    LINK:http://www.tennessean.com/article/20...text|FRONTPAGE

    I'm sure the NCSU and Tech fanbases would be all for a move out of the "unfair" ACC but I just don't see how the UNC School System would allow State to go without UNC. Also, if the SEC wasn't interested in WVU, I don't think they would be interested in VTech.

  19. #1659
    I dont get how the SEC vs. Big Flyover matchup really matters all that much. It's just another bowl, no?

  20. #1660
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDevilBrowns View Post
    Interesting article from The Tennessean regarding expansion:

    LINK:http://www.tennessean.com/article/20...text|FRONTPAGE

    I'm sure the NCSU and Tech fanbases would be all for a move out of the "unfair" ACC but I just don't see how the UNC School System would allow State to go without UNC. Also, if the SEC wasn't interested in WVU, I don't think they would be interested in VTech.
    Va Tech is much more attractive than WVU on multiple levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by El_Diablo View Post
    I dont get how the SEC vs. Big Flyover matchup really matters all that much. It's just another bowl, no?
    It doesn't directly. It's more to acknowledge that 2 power conferences can agree to a separate game (e.g. Rose Bowl) outside of the 4 team playoff. The nostalgia of a PAC 10/ Big 10 matchup in the Rose Bowl being incorporated into the 4 team playoff just got rebutted. You can have that game, but it doesn't need to be part of the playoff. . . . The Big XII and SEC are saying.

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