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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by loldevilz View Post
    That being said, I would love to see the ACC get Notre Dame.
    I would love to have a bugatti veyron sitting in my driveway. Not a chance this side of siberia that ND would abandon the big east in all other sports to join a conference like the ACC for its FOOTBALL! If notre dame was to switch, it would obviously be for football, and it would pretty much have to be the big 10.

    The TV deal they have is so good, they have absolutely no reason to join a conference in football.
    usa

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    I would love to have a bugatti veyron sitting in my driveway. Not a chance this side of siberia that ND would abandon the big east in all other sports to join a conference like the ACC for its FOOTBALL! If notre dame was to switch, it would obviously be for football, and it would pretty much have to be the big 10.

    The TV deal they have is so good, they have absolutely no reason to join a conference in football.
    Yeah you are probably right.

    Anyways, what about this bugatti? Add UConn and Syracuse

    Boston College
    UConn
    Syracuse
    Maryland
    Virginia
    Virginia Tech
    Wake Forest
    UNC
    Duke
    NC State
    Georgia Tech
    Miami

  3. #63
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    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by loldevilz View Post
    I really think that the ACC is in much better shape than most people think. Last year it had 5 of the top 10 in the director's cup. The focus of the ACC shouldn't be on football, it should be on bringing in high quality institutions that are good in a wide variety of sports.

    That being said, I would love to see the ACC get Notre Dame.
    So would I but the obvious place for Notre Dame is the Big 10, or whatever their name is now.

    I wouldn't mind trading FSU for Vanderbilt, not so much for the athletic program, although it has improved greatly over the last several years, but for the academic prestige it would bring. It will never happen though.

    I think that every year there should be a pre-season basketball tournament...call it the SAT Tourney and it should consist of Duke, Stanford, Northwestern, Rice, Vanderbilt, and a rotation of 3 IVY league schools.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by loldevilz View Post
    Yeah you are probably right.

    Anyways, what about this bugatti? Add UConn and Syracuse

    Boston College
    UConn
    Syracuse
    Maryland
    Virginia
    Virginia Tech
    Wake Forest
    UNC
    Duke
    NC State
    Georgia Tech
    Miami
    While it may have been appealing 6 years ago, I'm not sure the ACC is as good an option as it was 6 years ago. I can't imagine uconn or syracuse leaving the big east for the ACC at this time (or anyone else OTHER than the big 10). Both were original BE members and in fact SUED the schools that left the BE last time. While it would be awesome to add two of the best basketball teams in the country (as suddenly the conference would have 4 teams that don't wallow in mediocrity instead of two), I'm not sure it makes sense for uconn and syracuse, who suddenly go from playing almost every conference game against a big opponent to probably half as many. That might be a slight stretch, but I just don't see what is to be gained from the basketball perspective. From a football perspective, what does the ACC gain from adding two mediocre football teams? its the first expansion all over again (and uconn and syracuse are much more mediocre than tech and miami...even now). Yes uconn made the BCS last year, but they also backed into the spot and still were'nt exactly good.

    SOmeone earlier mentioned money, and I'd like to see the numbers for both the ACC and the Big East, because likely the big east basketball money has skyrocketed in recent years (not to mention the big est has gotten such a huge slice of the ncaa tournament pie)....but I think a lot of the ACC football money is driven by teams like FSU and Clemson, and if they were gone, and we added Cuse and Uconn instead, I highly doubt ESPN or whomever would be willing to dish out as many gobs of money as they currently do.

    TLDNR: I think while the ACC would certainly gain in basketball from these two additions, it doesn't really make sense for football, and there doesn't seem to be much gain for Uconn and Syracuse, or at least not enough to justify their bailing on the big east.
    usa

  5. #65
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    Dec 2010
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    Carolina Beach

    My mistake

    Quote Originally Posted by fan345678 View Post
    Four football national championships: Clemson '81, GT '90, FSU '93, FSU '99. Maryland won in '51, but that was still under the Southern Conference banner.
    oops... completely forgot FSU...

  6. #66
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    Feb 2007
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    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by hurleyfor3 View Post
    I'll give the Soviet Union the 1972 basketball gold medal before I give Colorado any piece of the 1990 national championship.
    communist_flag276.gif

    (Just kidding, of course, but I just couldn't resist the opportunity to invoke this un-original thought/idea.)

  7. #67
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    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    While it may have been appealing 6 years ago, I'm not sure the ACC is as good an option as it was 6 years ago. I can't imagine uconn or syracuse leaving the big east for the ACC at this time (or anyone else OTHER than the big 10). Both were original BE members and in fact SUED the schools that left the BE last time. While it would be awesome to add two of the best basketball teams in the country (as suddenly the conference would have 4 teams that don't wallow in mediocrity instead of two), I'm not sure it makes sense for uconn and syracuse, who suddenly go from playing almost every conference game against a big opponent to probably half as many. That might be a slight stretch, but I just don't see what is to be gained from the basketball perspective. From a football perspective, what does the ACC gain from adding two mediocre football teams? its the first expansion all over again (and uconn and syracuse are much more mediocre than tech and miami...even now). Yes uconn made the BCS last year, but they also backed into the spot and still were'nt exactly good.

    SOmeone earlier mentioned money, and I'd like to see the numbers for both the ACC and the Big East, because likely the big east basketball money has skyrocketed in recent years (not to mention the big est has gotten such a huge slice of the ncaa tournament pie)....but I think a lot of the ACC football money is driven by teams like FSU and Clemson, and if they were gone, and we added Cuse and Uconn instead, I highly doubt ESPN or whomever would be willing to dish out as many gobs of money as they currently do.

    TLDNR: I think while the ACC would certainly gain in basketball from these two additions, it doesn't really make sense for football, and there doesn't seem to be much gain for Uconn and Syracuse, or at least not enough to justify their bailing on the big east.
    If somehow the ACC got all of the New York market, say adding Rutgers also, then I think you could make an argument that the ACC has by far the best TV market share in the country. It may not be getting the best football schools, but it will be getting schools with great athletic programs and up and coming football teams. The truth is that when you add good schools you aren't guaranteed results. Miami and FSU never really accomplished all that much in the ACC.

    But if you make a stable conference with competitive and likeminded schools you are bound to get good results. I would go to watch a Syracuse -Duke football game rather than say a Duke-VT game because I think that there is a bit of a rivalry there. That's what keeps the fans interested IMO. And when the fans show I think it helps get recruits and build good programs.

  8. #68
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    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by loldevilz View Post
    If somehow the ACC got all of the New York market, say adding Rutgers also, then I think you could make an argument that the ACC has by far the best TV market share in the country. It may not be getting the best football schools, but it will be getting schools with great athletic programs and up and coming football teams. The truth is that when you add good schools you aren't guaranteed results. Miami and FSU never really accomplished all that much in the ACC.

    But if you make a stable conference with competitive and likeminded schools you are bound to get good results. I would go to watch a Syracuse -Duke football game rather than say a Duke-VT game because I think that there is a bit of a rivalry there. That's what keeps the fans interested IMO. And when the fans show I think it helps get recruits and build good programs.
    Add Villanova and St. Johns, and there you go. Have the whole East Coast sewn up.

    (Syracuse is not really "the New York Market" -- the Johnnies would be great, and we'd have the ACC tourney in the Garden every few years).

  9. #69
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    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Add Villanova and St. Johns, and there you go. Have the whole East Coast sewn up.

    (Syracuse is not really "the New York Market" -- the Johnnies would be great, and we'd have the ACC tourney in the Garden every few years).
    I'm sure the acc must be just hopping to add 2 small northeastern catholic schools neither of which has a d1A level football team. (Villanova's hardly counts...)
    usa

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    I'm sure the acc must be just hopping to add 2 small northeastern catholic schools neither of which has a d1A level football team. (Villanova's hardly counts...)
    True, didn't think of football. (Which is why expansion fundamentally seems bad to me anyway).

    The problem then with the "New York Market" is that Syracuse isn't really in it. Of course, NYC is a pro-sports town for the most part.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    True, didn't think of football. (Which is why expansion fundamentally seems bad to me anyway).

    The problem then with the "New York Market" is that Syracuse isn't really in it. Of course, NYC is a pro-sports town for the most part.
    For the most part of 20 million people.

  12. #72
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    Nov 2007
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    Philly
    I think there is a few important things to remember when discussing media markets and conference revenues. Being "in" a specific media market only really matters for cable rights fees for a conference network that won't be carried nationally on a standard cable package. To a lesser extent, it will also matter for airing games not picked up nationally on local channels (those SEC and Big East games that are conference branded, but use the ESPN graphics package). The local games, however, only matter to the extent that the generate ratings. As a money making entity, I think a school like Rutgers is terribly overrated. Sure, they technically lie within the New York market, but that doesn't mean that a company like Cablevision would be forced to put a conference network on the standard package within the city limits or out on Long Island when there is only legit demand for it in North Jersey. Most of the time, the TV rights fees are going to be based on what ESPN or FSN can expect to make by airing games nationally. In this sense, how much money a team brings to a conference with no established cable network is only determined by what it can bring as far as new marketable match-ups. This is likely determined mostly by quality (better games get better ratings) and rivalries (rivalry games will usually get better rating with all other things being equal).

    Going back to the immediate future, this is why I'm a bit skeptical that the SEC would jump on Texas A&M, unless they have someone like FSU already lined up. Texas A&M has put a pretty mediocre product on the field for years, and will lose its marketable rivalries by making this jump. Furthermore, A&M is unlikely to develop any marketable rivalries with current SEC schools as they are pretty far geographically, and they won't suddenly be involved in a bunch of top 10 match-ups given its shaky football past.
    Pratt '09
    GO DUKE!

  13. #73
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    Feb 2007
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    Tampa
    Quote Originally Posted by wsb3 View Post
    oops... completely forgot FSU...
    Maryland's only legit national title was in 1953, when they were inaugural ACC co-Champions with Duke (and an unbalanced schedule due to Virginia's late arrival). They were voted national champions and then lost their bowl game. The school doesn't recognize their 1951 retroactive title by various voting organizations (contrast that to the bread factory "national championship" highly recognized 9 miles down the road...)

    as for FSU, I try to forget them all the time.
    ___________________
    Mike Stein
    Trinity '97, Tent #1 '97
    Tampa

  14. #74
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    Apr 2007
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    Galveston, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by SCMatt33 View Post
    I think there is a few important things to remember when discussing media markets and conference revenues. Being "in" a specific media market only really matters for cable rights fees for a conference network that won't be carried nationally on a standard cable package. To a lesser extent, it will also matter for airing games not picked up nationally on local channels (those SEC and Big East games that are conference branded, but use the ESPN graphics package). The local games, however, only matter to the extent that the generate ratings. As a money making entity, I think a school like Rutgers is terribly overrated. Sure, they technically lie within the New York market, but that doesn't mean that a company like Cablevision would be forced to put a conference network on the standard package within the city limits or out on Long Island when there is only legit demand for it in North Jersey. Most of the time, the TV rights fees are going to be based on what ESPN or FSN can expect to make by airing games nationally. In this sense, how much money a team brings to a conference with no established cable network is only determined by what it can bring as far as new marketable match-ups. This is likely determined mostly by quality (better games get better ratings) and rivalries (rivalry games will usually get better rating with all other things being equal).

    Going back to the immediate future, this is why I'm a bit skeptical that the SEC would jump on Texas A&M, unless they have someone like FSU already lined up. Texas A&M has put a pretty mediocre product on the field for years, and will lose its marketable rivalries by making this jump. Furthermore, A&M is unlikely to develop any marketable rivalries with current SEC schools as they are pretty far geographically, and they won't suddenly be involved in a bunch of top 10 match-ups given its shaky football past.
    With all due respect, I think you are underestimating the Aggies. They're certainly not awful in football. Their women's basketball team just won the NCAA championship, and their men's team didn't do too badly in the NCAA tourney. Additionally, you're talking about a school with a fairly large alumni fan base. If you think they wouldn't have a large fan contingent at away games (especially AR and LSU), think again. That certainly can't hurt. Also, it seems as though the large fan base might increase viewership for the SEC in markets with a large alumni fan base, even if this market is not normally associated with the location of the school.

    Once upon a time, A&M and Arkansas were rivals - not like Arkansas-Texas or Texas-TX A&M, certainly, but rivals nonetheless. The Arkansas-LSU rivalry was really generated when Arkansas joined the SEC. Given time, new rivalries will develop, or old ones will be renewed. If Mizzou is really one of the target teams, then promoted rivalries could shift from AR-LSU to LSU-A&M and AR-Mizzou.

    ETA: With regard to the strength of A&M's football program, I think a move to the SEC would help them. Arkansas gets a lot of recruits out of the state of Texas who want to play in the SEC. A change in conferences could actually help A&M in recruiting. YMMV.

  15. #75
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    Feb 2007
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    Hot'Lanta... home of sports teams that disappoint in the playoffs
    The SEC says, "thanks for the offer, but we are just fine at 12" to TxA&M.

    Thus ends the latest round of conference realignment insanity - not with a bang, but with a whimper.

    -Jason "glad to keep Clemson in the family-- the road trip to Littlejohn is a fun one" Evans
    Don't ask me why, but my mother is making me Tweet. Says it will be good for my career. So, follow my ramblings, mostly on the film industry, @TVFilmTalk

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    The SEC says, "thanks for the offer, but we are just fine at 12" to TxA&M.

    Thus ends the latest round of conference realignment insanity - not with a bang, but with a whimper.

    -Jason "glad to keep Clemson in the family-- the road trip to Littlejohn is a fun one" Evans
    This is by no means over. This just means that the SEC isn't going to act on TAMU's timetable. At most this means that the SEC isn't going to move until it has all of its expansion schools lined up and ready to go.

  17. #77
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    Feb 2007
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    Austin, TX

    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    This is by no means over. This just means that the SEC isn't going to act on TAMU's timetable. At most this means that the SEC isn't going to move until it has all of its expansion schools lined up and ready to go.
    Agreed. SEC is telling A&M to get it's ish together and house in order so that the SEC isn't the bad guy. Its also implicitly saying it needs a 14th team and hasnt figured that out yet. A&M will be in the SEC at some point. But it will be on the SEC's, and not A&M's, timetable.

    A&M is, predictably, blaming all of this on ESPN and Texas, but they only have themselves to blame. Best quote of the week by Jerome Solomon of the Houston Chronicle:

    "Aggies live off a regular diet of an embarrassing inferiority complex and an irrational superiority complex."

  18. #78

    realignment

    The one lesson we should all learn from all of this is a reminder that quoting Doug Gottlieb as a source makes as much sense as quoting an anonymous message board post as a source.

  19. #79
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    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    The one lesson we should all learn from all of this is a reminder that quoting Doug Gottlieb as a source makes as much sense as quoting an anonymous message board post as a source.
    Doug Gottlieb knows a thing or two about being alarmingly un-accurate.
    usa

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    The one lesson we should all learn from all of this is a reminder that quoting Doug Gottlieb as a source makes as much sense as quoting an anonymous message board post as a source.
    Mea culpa. I accept whatever is my share in OlympicFan's gentle rebuke. I see now that my error was averting my eyes from the fascinating [nil-nil draw] football game on ESPN2 Sat morn, just down to the bottom of the screen to see the Gottlieb-mongering-scroll-"news". To be fair - and not to put too fine a point on it - the news scrolled coyly neglected to mention that bloody idiot, Gottlieb.

    In my defense, further, I will protest that, had the football been more like this afternoon's Supercopa de Espana [another fierce classico between Barca and Real Madrid], I'd never have lowered my eyes.

    So, to hell with mea culpa; I blame Aston Villa and Fulham. Given the turnover among European - worldwide, actually - football coaches, I suspect Doug Gottlieb will be named coach of either Villa or Fulham within a fortnight.

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