Tiger dumps Steve Williams as caddie / PGA Championship thread

[BD80]

This could get good:

http://aol.sportingnews.com/sport/st...lity-agreement

No matter what, it will be fun. I agree with this take:

Part of me thinks Williams is just playing mind games with Woods. He has no intention of writing a book. He just knows the mere threat will drive Tiger insane.

BUT

“I’m not disappointed that I got fired, just disappointed in the timing of it, given how loyal I’ve been to him,” Williams said. “That obviously didn’t mean much to him.”

http://aol.sportingnews.com/sport/st...#ixzz1T9KcTLp4

[sagegrouse]

Just for the sake of argument, let's say that Tiger paid Steve Williams an average of $2 million a year. I think it would be well above the 10%, which is the normal share. Maybe it was less. But if my number is close, then Tiger paid Steve over $20 million in the last 12 years.

Now Tiger decides Steve's services are no longer needed. Steve is abused? Subject to arbitrary behavior from a heretofore generous boss? Proof of ingratitude? Puh-leese!!!

Players change caddies all the time, especially when things aren't going great. Have things been going great for Tiger? Uh,... not really. A bit of surprise actually, only because Stevie had such a long tenure on Team Tiger.

I don't think it's much of a story, except as proof that the golf solar system still revolves around Tiger. How's everything going, Luke Donald, since you became world #1. It's pesky having to make cuts isn't it? How about you, Lee Westwood?

sagegrouse

[Doug.I.Am]

I personally don't see this as a big deal. Did Steve-O ever read Tiger's putts? Rarely if ever. Caddies are a dime a dozen. The job as a caddie, IMO, is to give yardage, help with club selection, clean his equipment, tend a flag, rake a bunker and just kinda keep the guy even keeled through the round. There are a lot of guys capable of that. Steve-O had it made, just friggin made while he was on Tiger's bag. He earned a ton of money with him. Let's see him duplicate that on Scott's bag.

For him to spew off on how his loyalty was betrayed and how disappointed he was comes across to me as a whiny baby whose gravy train just came to a sudden stop.

After the dust settles, I do hope they can come together and mend their fractured friendship.

[BD80]

... Steve-O had it made, just friggin made while he was on Tiger's bag. He earned a ton of money with him. Let's see him duplicate that on Scott's bag. ...

Caddies certainly don't make the difference that the golfer himself makes. But a they can make a stroke or two difference per ROUND. Ask any pro if that is significant.

Let's see if Adam does better with Steve than Tiger does without Steve.

[Doug.I.Am]

Caddies certainly don't make the difference that the golfer himself makes. But a they can make a stroke or two difference per ROUND. Ask any pro if that is significant.

Let's see if Adam does better with Steve than Tiger does without Steve.

A stroke or 2 a round seems to me a bit high. Are you saying that Adam Scott's average score will be 4-8 strokes less per tourney now that Williams is on his bag? I don't buy it.

In regards to Adam outperforming Tiger after this - who knows what Tiger will show up once he's healthy(if that ever happens). Is it the pre-divorce or post-divorce Woods. Time will tell but I think very little of how he plays has anything to do with who's on the bag.

As always, just my measly .02.

[Doug.I.Am]

Hey BD - you win round one! Scott played flawlessly.

I thought Tiger looked better than he has in maybe 2 years. Didn't score that well but there was something about that round that looked a lot like the old Tiger. The flat stick in particular was much improved. That cut 3 wood was a thing of beauty. I hesitate to say he's back, but boy was that a refreshing dose of Tiger that I think golf could really use.

[killerleft]

There's actually a better than Dumb & Dumber chance that Tiger could play at the Wyndham (Greensboro) Championship this year. Talk about a much-needed shot in the arm, the Wyndham is on life-support.

http://www.news-record.com/content/2...re_comes_later

Tiger must play bad for Greensboro to have a chance at him, however.

[BD80]

The tourney being at Firestone means that Adam having Steve on the bag is more of benefit than it is a detriment to Tiger missing Steve. Tiger and Steve have won a bunch of tourneys on this course. If Tiger has changed his swing, and thus distance, flight path and action upon landing, Steve wouldn't be that much help to Tiger right now until he learned Tiger's new game. Steve knows how to help a golfer manage Firestone to win tournaments, which will help Adam Scott a great deal.

[mr. synellinden]

So - Scott wins the tournament with Williams on his bag and finishes 18 shots better than Tiger - that's an interesting story in and of itself. But then, minutes after Scott holes a birdie putt on 18 to cap off the win, CBS interviews Williams who says that this has been the best week of his life and 33 years as a caddie. I think he was with Woods for 12 or 13 of the 14 majors he's won. And he says very directly that he's enjoyed this week more than any of those or any of the other 60 or so wins with Tiger.

Here's your top story going into the PGA, maybe not just in golf but all of sports.

Very curious to see how Tiger responds.

[sagegrouse]

Very curious to see how Tiger responds.

OK -- here's how Tiger should handle the situation. "Now, I guess, Steve and I can reveal the truth. It was said that I fired him, but that was just to keep me from looking bad. The fact is, he fired me. And now we see why."

sagegrouse

[BD80]

So - Scott wins the tournament with Williams on his bag and finishes 18 shots better than Tiger - that's an interesting story in and of itself. But then, minutes after Scott holes a birdie putt on 18 to cap off the win, CBS interviews Williams who says that this has been the best week of his life and 33 years as a caddie. I think he was with Woods for 12 or 13 of the 14 majors he's won. And he says very directly that he's enjoyed this week more than any of those or any of the other 60 or so wins with Tiger.

Here's your top story going into the PGA, maybe not just in golf but all of sports.

Very curious to see how Tiger responds.

The dominant Tiger is gone for good. He may win more tournaments, but he doesn't have "it" anymore. The young bucks aren't afraid of Tiger. Tiger won't win anymore by just showing up and going low on day one. Part of his invincibility was his indifference to anyone else's feelings. He doesn't have a lot of good will built up with other golfers on the tour. I don't doubt Steve enjoyed this tournament more than any he spent with Tiger. I don't think Tiger can "lighten up" and win tournaments - but ESPN and the Golf Channel will sure be trying hard to make Tiger appear to be more human, so there won't be a war of words from Tiger's camp in reply to Steve - until he can get into a final round with Scott and prevail.

Maybe we will see a renaissance, kind of like The Golden Bear experienced. Jack was not well liked on the tour for the early part of his career; he and Arnie were famously cool toward each other. Jack's resurgence in his 40s came with a better attitude and gained him friendships in the tour, including, eventually, Arnie.

[Doug.I.Am]

The dominant Tiger is gone for good. He may win more tournaments, but he doesn't have "it" anymore. The young bucks aren't afraid of Tiger. Tiger won't win anymore by just showing up and going low on day one. Part of his invincibility was his indifference to anyone else's feelings. He doesn't have a lot of good will built up with other golfers on the tour. I don't doubt Steve enjoyed this tournament more than any he spent with Tiger. I don't think Tiger can "lighten up" and win tournaments - but ESPN and the Golf Channel will sure be trying hard to make Tiger appear to be more human, so there won't be a war of words from Tiger's camp in reply to Steve - until he can get into a final round with Scott and prevail.

Maybe we will see a renaissance, kind of like The Golden Bear experienced. Jack was not well liked on the tour for the early part of his career; he and Arnie were famously cool toward each other. Jack's resurgence in his 40s came with a better attitude and gained him friendships in the tour, including, eventually, Arnie.

I wouldn't look for a comment out of Tiger. He doesn't get into public bantering very often.

I want to make a quick note on Williams' comments about this being the biggest win of his life. That surely was all about getting back at Woods because there is no way to believe that a non-major victory was bigger than the 13 majors he won with Tiger or being part of the "Tiger Slam." Steve, just say something like, "great week for Adam, I'm fortunate to be with him" and leave it at that. He needs to get over Tiger dumping him and move on.

I have to wonder - if Scott goes on to win the PGA next week, will that trump this win as the "biggest win" of his life?

[BD80]

I wouldn't look for a comment out of Tiger. He doesn't get into public bantering very often. ...

Tiger really sucks at relationships.

You'd think he'd stay out of it, but no, he's wading right into the slop. His agent released a statement calling Steve a liar with respect to the "phone call" termination - but it appears the "face-to-face" meeting is different than what Steve understood to be his "release." Thing is, Tiger is not staying out of it, but he should.

[duke79]

Yea, I watched that interview with Stevie live, right after Adam won the tournament convincingly. I have to admit, I was somewhat taken aback by how egotistical Stevie came off. The whole interview seemed to be "I" this and "I" that. He made it sound like "he" was the one who went out there and hit the shots and won the tournament. I don't doubt that caddies can be important to how well a player does in any given tournament, but, let's face reality, it is the golfer who actually has to hit every shot and make every put. The caddie is just lugging his bag around the course, giving him some yardages (which the pro already knows from the little "book" they all carry in their back pocket) and trying to give the player some encouragement during the round and keep him on some sort of even keel. I frankly thought Steve was incredibly UNgracious towards Adam, who played four great rounds to win. I have no doubt Stevie is very angry at Tiger for how he was dumped (and maybe it was handled badly by Tiger), but Stevie did NOT reveal a good side to himself by that interview (IMHO).

[JasonEvans]

Stevie went from being a good guy to a bad guy pretty darn quickly in my book.

Tiger is still a bad guy, but Stevie sure did not help his image. I mean, there are actually people feeling a bit of sympathy for Tiger today. Ummm, WOW, it takes some real jerk work to accomplish that.

-Jason "props to Adam Scott for a very impressive win, though I was rooting for Ryo Ishikawa" Evans

[Doug.I.Am]

Tiger really sucks at relationships.

You'd think he'd stay out of it, but no, he's wading right into the slop. His agent released a statement calling Steve a liar with respect to the "phone call" termination - but it appears the "face-to-face" meeting is different than what Steve understood to be his "release." Thing is, Tiger is not staying out of it, but he should.

HA! He sure does, BD.

I "kind of" understand why the agent would release a statement refuting Steve's take on things. I think it's a matter of semantics. Steve viewed the "taking a break" phone call as a firing. Tiger probably had the same thoughts but wanted to tell Steve face to fact at the AT&T that he was officially off the bag. I know Steve says it's common among caddies who receive that as "you're done" but I'm not sure every golfer means it like that. Who knows.

I'd like to think grown men can get over this and resume a friendship that most thought would last forever...Then again, Tiger sucks at relationships...

[BD80]

Stevie went from being a good guy to a bad guy pretty darn quickly in my book.

Tiger is still a bad guy, but Stevie sure did not help his image. I mean, there are actually people feeling a bit of sympathy for Tiger today. Ummm, WOW, it takes some real jerk work to accomplish that.

-Jason "props to Adam Scott for a very impressive win, though I was rooting for Ryo Ishikawa" Evans

Hmmmm. Maybe Stevie is still working for that Machiavellian Tiger, doing this precisely to make Tiger a sympathetic figure?

Nah, Stevie is obviously pissed. I think Stevie is a butthead, one who was more than willing to be the prick to "protect" Tiger and one who kind of jumped ship when Tiger was down. I just find it amusing that two such unlikeable people are having such a public contest to appear the less despicable.

I really hope Stevie writes that book!

[mr. synellinden]

Yea, I watched that interview with Stevie live, right after Adam won the tournament convincingly. I have to admit, I was somewhat taken aback by how egotistical Stevie came off. The whole interview seemed to be "I" this and "I" that. He made it sound like "he" was the one who went out there and hit the shots and won the tournament. I don't doubt that caddies can be important to how well a player does in any given tournament, but, let's face reality, it is the golfer who actually has to hit every shot and make every put. The caddie is just lugging his bag around the course, giving him some yardages (which the pro already knows from the little "book" they all carry in their back pocket) and trying to give the player some encouragement during the round and keep him on some sort of even keel. I frankly thought Steve was incredibly UNgracious towards Adam, who played four great rounds to win. I have no doubt Stevie is very angry at Tiger for how he was dumped (and maybe it was handled badly by Tiger), but Stevie did NOT reveal a good side to himself by that interview (IMHO).

You also have to wonder how Adam Scott feels about all this. He is peaking as a golfer right now and just had the biggest (or second biggest behind the TPC) win of his career going into a major - and yet the story is his caddie, who did make himself the focus of that interview and used the opportunity of Scott's win to take a very direct shot at Tiger. If I were Scott, I would be very angry about Williams's comments. I recall that it was supposedly something similar that caused Tiger to fire Fluff back in the 90s.

[Doug.I.Am]

You also have to wonder how Adam Scott feels about all this. He is peaking as a golfer right now and just had the biggest (or second biggest behind the TPC) win of his career going into a major - and yet the story is his caddie, who did make himself the focus of that interview and used the opportunity of Scott's win to take a very direct shot at Tiger. If I were Scott, I would be very angry about Williams's comments. I recall that it was supposedly something similar that caused Tiger to fire Fluff back in the 90s.

Agreed but if I'm Adam Scott I give Steve a mulligan here with a friendly reminder who the golfer is and who's carrying the bag. I'd expect that would suffice.

[Mal]

I recall that it was supposedly something similar that caused Tiger to fire Fluff back in the 90s.

I think that's right - it was an interview Fluff did with Golf Magazine that seemed to be the primary force, although it was chalked up as just the final straw in a fraying relationship.

Anyway, Williams, as did Fluff back then, just broke the cardinal rule of caddying, which is a big part of why he's coming off as so unsympathetic right now: Never, ever, let yourself be the focus of attention. And if you're going to, at least do so to publicly talk about how much you love your wife or speak out for an Alzheimer's cure. Williams is instead garnering all that attention to whine about mistreatment, while unwittingly reminding the world that he's spent a decade walking in the sun and witnessing the most talented golfer of all time destroy the most difficult courses ever conceived up close and personal, while amassing a fortune greater than that of most financiers. Gawd, what a lout.

I agree with doug.i.am, though, that if I were Scott, I probably wouldn't can him right away, while the team's on a high. But there's no doubt I'd put the kibosh on interviews. The whole ironic Scott/Williams/Woods thing would have been the angle in every single article written about the tournament already, so shut up and let the media make what they will out of it but don't feed it any further.