2014 Basketball Recruiting thread

[richardjackson199]

Olympic Fan can speak for himself, but in another thread a few days ago he said that we are very VERY unlikely to land Turner (or something to that effect). When a few posters on this site assert something like that (Airowe, Watzone, Jim Sumner, Olympic Fan, Tommy, etc.) they're being kind enough to share free inside information with us. I've been here long enough to know they're right. Even if they don't always turn out to be 100% right, they're acting on correct information which occasionally changes. That is more than I can say for Chad Ford who tweets out so much crap, he seems to be wrong more often than right. So I trust Duke was behind in the Turner sweepstakes going into this week. But with Coach K doing an in-home, there is a chance Turner reconsiders and picks Duke. If he really thinks about who he'll be playing with and what it can do for his goals, I think he will give us serious consideration.

Responding to some other posts, I respect your position, and I respectfully disagree.
Having Turner next year would only help Duke, even if he's OAD. After Jabari, Rodney, and Murphy left, we have plenty of room. We aren't recruiting anybody else in 2014 class. So if he's OAD, we'll have as many spots for 2015 class if we get him as if we don't get him. Turner is 7 feet tall, a rim-protector, and already has a nice face-the-basket game with range. Players like that can really make the difference for a team - think Gorgui Deng or Anthony Davis. He could split minutes at the 4 with Jefferson, giving us depth to avoid being super-susceptible to foul trouble on Amile and Jahlil. Or what if one of our bigs gets hurt? This is not a freak occurrence - it happens all the time. Look how many bigs Kentucky and UNC will have next year. Would you really want to play against Cliff Alexander, Turner, Oubre, and Perry Ellis? I'd rather have Turner on my side.

I hope Semi has a great year. I don't know anything about him since he never played last year. And last year we had tremendous need at the 4 spot. Even when Jabari and Rodney fouled out at Syracuse, our coaches chose to guard Grant in OT with Dawkins rather than give Semi some burn. So I have to conclude for some reason Semi wasn't ready to contribute. I don't know, I wasn't at Duke practices. If we get Turner, that should motivate Semi to work harder on his game this offseason. If he's ready to contribute, he'll earn minutes. If he's unlikely to play at all, he could redshirt and continue to develop until his game catches up with his athleticism and potential.

Come on to Duke Myles Turner. I think he could be the missing piece to winning it all next year. That's enough for me.

I meant to say when Jabari and Amile (the guys we had playing the 4) fouled out at Syracuse...

As an example of the importance of depth at the 4/5 - Ryan Kelly gets hurt and we lose to Lehigh. Willie Cauley Stein goes down, Cal inserts Dakari Johnson, Lee, and Poythress alongside Randle, barely missing a beat and almost winning it all.

[FireOgilvie]

First of all, Duke lists Semi as 6'7", 230, which with his muscular build (and amazing hops) is plenty big for a college PF. Despite his shooting range, to me Semi looks like a college 4 to me and I suspect he'd be a little out of position as a 3. In fact, I'd go so far as to say I think there's virtually no chance Semi plays significant minutes at SF this season; pretty much his only chance for non-garbage time minutes is at PF.

More importantly, to say that Semi's playing time would be the same "whether Turner is on the team or not" doesn't seem realistic to me. We all know Coach K is only going to play 7 or maybe 8 guys in close games after January 1. IF Myles Turner comes to Duke, you'd have to assume that Tyus, Quinn, Rasheed, Myles, and Jahlil would be well ahead of Semi in the rotation, leaving him to battle Amile, Marshall, Justise, and Matt for the remaining two or three spots. I think definitely two and probably three of those guys (maybe all four) should be ahead of him. But if we don't land Myles Turner, and we go 8 deep then all Semi has to do is either beat out Matt and/or prove to be a more viable PF option than Justise. And thus to me it seems clear he'd have a much easier path to minutes without Turner in the fold.

He was listed as 6'6" coming out of HS, but that's fine. Whether he is 6'6" or 6'7", there's no question he's going to play small forward at the professional level, wherever that may be. Look at every draft website or really any article that ever mentions him - they all say "small forward." I don't understand why you think that he'd be out of position - can you elaborate?

Also, I didn't say he'd play the same minutes. I said if he's good enough, he'll play whether Turner is on the team or not, as in at SF. It's not a charity. Coach K will be the first one to say that.

I still think he's out of position as a PF. I'd rather have a 6'11" PF listed as a potential top 5 NBA draft pick than a 6'7" guy that NBA scouts think is a SF that couldn't get off the bench as a freshman. I mean, honestly, there's a reason why Coach K is in Texas right now.

[FireOgilvie]

First of all, Duke lists Semi as 6'7", 230, which with his muscular build (and amazing hops) is plenty big for a college PF. Despite his shooting range, to me Semi looks like a college 4 to me and I suspect he'd be a little out of position as a 3. In fact, I'd go so far as to say I think there's virtually no chance Semi plays significant minutes at SF this season; pretty much his only chance for non-garbage time minutes is at PF.

More importantly, to say that Semi's playing time would be the same "whether Turner is on the team or not" doesn't seem realistic to me. We all know Coach K is only going to play 7 or maybe 8 guys in close games after January 1. IF Myles Turner comes to Duke, you'd have to assume that Tyus, Quinn, Rasheed, Myles, and Jahlil would be well ahead of Semi in the rotation, leaving him to battle Amile, Marshall, Justise, and Matt for the remaining two or three spots. I think definitely two and probably three of those guys (maybe all four) should be ahead of him. But if we don't land Myles Turner, and we go 8 deep then all Semi has to do is either beat out Matt and/or prove to be a more viable PF option than Justise. And thus to me it seems clear he'd have a much easier path to minutes without Turner in the fold.

DraftExpress says Ojeleye was measured at 6'6.5" in shoes. So he's actually more like 6'5". They also say "position: SF, NBA: SF, possible: SF." The article is 1.5 years old, but take that for what it's worth. I don't think I'm crazy for suggesting he's better suited to be a SF than a PF. We did pretty well the year that Singler played SF, his NBA position, and I think Ojeleye is every bit as quick as Singler was his junior year. I also really do think he has a good shot at playing significant minutes at the 3 next year. He'll have a year of experience under his belt and I think that gives him a headstart over Winslow, even though I expect Winslow to end up being the starter.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Semi-Ojeleye-7164/

Edit: Ojeleye also might be our best 3 point shooter next year based off of what is being reported from practice - he made 16 in a row at one point.

[NSDukeFan]

DraftExpress says Ojeleye was measured at 6'6.5" in shoes. So he's actually more like 6'5". They also say "position: SF, NBA: SF, possible: SF." The article is 1.5 years old, but take that for what it's worth. I don't think I'm crazy for suggesting he's better suited to be a SF than a PF. We did pretty well the year that Singler played SF, his NBA position, and I think Ojeleye is every bit as quick as Singler was his junior year. I also really do think he has a good shot at playing significant minutes at the 3 next year. He'll have a year of experience under his belt and I think that gives him a headstart over Winslow, even though I expect Winslow to end up being the starter.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Semi-Ojeleye-7164/

Edit: Ojeleye also might be our best 3 point shooter next year based off of what is being reported from practice - he made 16 in a row at one point.

Was Nick Horvath guarding him?

[FireOgilvie]

Was Nick Horvath guarding him?

No, but I hear that "Semi Ojeleye" is also an alias that Patrick Davidson uses sometimes when he's drunk, which explains why it was only 16 3s in a row.

[Kedsy]

He was listed as 6'6" coming out of HS, but that's fine. Whether he is 6'6" or 6'7", there's no question he's going to play small forward at the professional level, wherever that may be. Look at every draft website or really any article that ever mentions him - they all say "small forward." I don't understand why you think that he'd be out of position - can you elaborate?

I believe a player's pro position is somewhat irrelevant to his college position. For example, a 6'7" guy is for the most part way too short to play PF in the NBA, but you see plenty of 6'7" PFs in college, just like you see 6'1" shooting guards and 6'4 SFs in college but you'd almost never see that in the NBA. In general, especially at Duke, players often tend to play one up. For example, Jabari will be an NBA SF. Did he even play a minute at SF for Duke? Kyle Singler played SF in 2010 and 2011, but PF in 2009 and C in 2008. Mike Dunleavy played PF for Duke in 2002, but he's been a SG in the NBA.

What is much more important than a player's NBA position is what position does Duke need. Next year we will have Tyus, Quinn, Rasheed, Justise, Matt, and Grayson who can play the perimeter. Not counting Semi, we'll only have Jahlil, Amile, and Marshall at the two big man spots. Since Jahlil and Marshall probably won't be playing any PF for Duke, that means there are PF minutes available, indeed necessary whenever Amile is off the floor. Thus, since SF is very crowded and PF minutes are available, the only way Semi gets significant minutes is at PF.

Also, I didn't say he'd play the same minutes. I said if he's good enough, he'll play whether Turner is on the team or not, as in at SF.

But it's not true. If Turner is on the team, Semi will probably be relegated to garbage-time minutes, not because he's not "good enough" but because there will be too many people ahead of him. Although if by "good enough" you mean one of our top 7 or 8 players, then I suppose you're covered, but to me that's a bit of a cop out, because Semi might be one of our top 7 or 8 players without Turner but he probably wouldn't be with Turner.

Either way, to play SF minutes, he'd have to be one of the top 4 (maybe 5) perimeter players, but that's unlikely with Tyus, Quinn, Rasheed, Justise, and Matt on the team.

I'd rather have a 6'11" PF listed as a potential top 5 NBA draft pick than a 6'7" guy that NBA scouts think is a SF that couldn't get off the bench as a freshman. I mean, honestly, there's a reason why Coach K is in Texas right now.

That's a completely different issue. I haven't been comparing Semi to Myles Turner or saying I'd rather have one versus the other. I was simply objecting to your characterization that getting Myles Turner wouldn't affect Semi's minutes, when clearly it would.

[FireOgilvie]

I believe a player's pro position is somewhat irrelevant to his college position. For example, a 6'7" guy is for the most part way too short to play PF in the NBA, but you see plenty of 6'7" PFs in college, just like you see 6'1" shooting guards and 6'4 SFs in college but you'd almost never see that in the NBA. In general, especially at Duke, players often tend to play one up. For example, Jabari will be an NBA SF. Did he even play a minute at SF for Duke? Kyle Singler played SF in 2010 and 2011, but PF in 2009 and C in 2008. Mike Dunleavy played PF for Duke in 2002, but he's been a SG in the NBA.

What is much more important than a player's NBA position is what position does Duke need. Next year we will have Tyus, Quinn, Rasheed, Justise, Matt, and Grayson who can play the perimeter. Not counting Semi, we'll only have Jahlil, Amile, and Marshall at the two big man spots. Since Jahlil and Marshall probably won't be playing any PF for Duke, that means there are PF minutes available, indeed necessary whenever Amile is off the floor. Thus, since SF is very crowded and PF minutes are available, the only way Semi gets significant minutes is at PF.

But it's not true. If Turner is on the team, Semi will probably be relegated to garbage-time minutes, not because he's not "good enough" but because there will be too many people ahead of him. Although if by "good enough" you mean one of our top 7 or 8 players, then I suppose you're covered, but to me that's a bit of a cop out, because Semi might be one of our top 7 or 8 players without Turner but he probably wouldn't be with Turner.

Either way, to play SF minutes, he'd have to be one of the top 4 (maybe 5) perimeter players, but that's unlikely with Tyus, Quinn, Rasheed, Justise, and Matt on the team.

That's a completely different issue. I haven't been comparing Semi to Myles Turner or saying I'd rather have one versus the other. I was simply objecting to your characterization that getting Myles Turner wouldn't affect Semi's minutes, when clearly it would.

No one disagrees that Semi would potentially get more minutes with Turner at another school - there will be more available minutes for everyone else. I agree Semi would be the next logical backup to Amile at PF. My whole point is that I hope that doesn't happen because he'd be playing out of his ideal college and NBA position; the team would be better with Semi at SF and TURNER at PF. The first poster said he hopes we don't get Turner at all so Semi could play more. I totally disagree with that; the team has a much better chance to win a championship with Turner on the roster. I also said if Turner is on the team, Semi could still play if he earns it (yes, by beating out other players like Winslow).

The team has a much higher ceiling when we play BIG and don't play guys out of position. Our worst seasons in the last decade have involved us playing small with guys playing out of their NBA positions. Yes, you're right, Jabari never played SF this year. That was because we would have had an even bigger hole in our roster at center/PF if he did that. But if in some parallel universe Jabari was older and played with Shelden Williams and Josh McRoberts, we would have seen Jabari play more on the wing - and we would have crushed everyone with guys playing their NBA positions.

[JPtheGame]

Considering that none of the recruiting experts are giving Duke a shot here and Coach K and company had just left the turner residence less than one hour before this was posted, this isnt the worst tweet:
https://twitter.com/Original_Turner/...76353770643456

conflicted is good for Duke.

[Edouble]

No one disagrees that Semi would potentially get more minutes with Turner at another school - there will be more available minutes for everyone else. I agree Semi would be the next logical backup to Amile at PF. My whole point is that I hope that doesn't happen because he'd be playing out of his ideal college and NBA position; the team would be better with Semi at SF and TURNER at PF. The first poster said he hopes we don't get Turner at all so Semi could play more. I totally disagree with that; the team has a much better chance to win a championship with Turner on the roster. I also said if Turner is on the team, Semi could still play if he earns it (yes, by beating out other players like Winslow).

The team has a much higher ceiling when we play BIG and don't play guys out of position. Our worst seasons in the last decade have involved us playing small with guys playing out of their NBA positions. Yes, you're right, Jabari never played SF this year. That was because we would have had an even bigger hole in our roster at center/PF if he did that. But if in some parallel universe Jabari was older and played with Shelden Williams and Josh McRoberts, we would have seen Jabari play more on the wing - and we would have crushed everyone with guys playing their NBA positions.

I disagree with this. Jabari was most effective when he got the ball on the low block or on the elbow. Roaming farther from the basket, as a small forward, would not have really helped improve his 19 ppg and 9rpg. It was when he started taking those fade away jumpers that his offense would get off track. His 3 point shooting was was non-existent by late January.

We would crush people with that lineup, because we would have an NBA front court with two outstanding defensive players, but not because Jabari would be playing on the wing. You might actually slide McBob to the 3 in that lineup and keep Jabari at the 4.

[FireOgilvie]

I disagree with this. Jabari was most effective when he got the ball on the low block or on the elbow. Roaming farther from the basket, as a small forward, would not have really helped improve his 19 ppg and 9rpg. It was when he started taking those fade away jumpers that his offense would get off track. His 3 point shooting was was non-existent by late January.

We would crush people with that lineup, because we would have an NBA front court with two outstanding defensive players, but not because Jabari would be playing on the wing. You might actually slide McBob to the 3 in that lineup and keep Jabari at the 4.

Yes, in my ridiculous hypothetical scenario, in which he would have been playing with two guys that had their jerseys retired, he would have averaged fewer points and rebounds per game. But he wouldn't have been forced to defend the center or power forward positions like he did last year. If he was playing with Shelden and McRoberts (who averaged 2.5 blocks per game the next year), he would have played defense on the wings. You're right about his offensive game.

Anyway, back to 2014 recruiting.

[UrinalCake]

Common sense would tell you that our chances of landing are turner are small, simply because we have Okafor, but it does sound like a slim chance does still exist. I imagine that K's pitch at his in-home yesterday was that now that Parker and Hood are officially gone there are minutes to be had and room for Turner to assert himself as a key piece of the team. Since he's announcing as part of the ESPN signing day special on the 30th, I don't imagine we'll get much information between now and then, but his tweet posted above was definitely encouraging to me. If it's a difficult decision then I think we're still in the mix.

[sagegrouse]

Considering that none of the recruiting experts are giving Duke a shot here and Coach K and company had just left the turner residence less than one hour before this was posted, this isnt the worst tweet:
https://twitter.com/Original_Turner/...76353770643456

conflicted is good for Duke.

Complete text of tweet:

Myles Turner ‏@Original_Turner

THIS IS GOING TO BE THE HARDEST DECISION OF MY LIFE 😩

[Faison1]

Maybe this has been covered before, but why are we going after this kid? It seems we have plenty of horses in the stable, and it's not like K has EVER lengthened his bench. In fact, the few times he has come close, it's almost as if the team performed worse down the stretch.

Next year, we'll have Okafor, Plumlee, Semi, Jefferson, amongst others.

I just don't understand why K keeps pursuing him, based on past experiences.

[Skitzle]

Maybe this has been covered before, but why are we going after this kid? It seems we have plenty of horses in the stable, and it's not like K has EVER lengthened his bench. In fact, the few times he has come close, it's almost as if the team performed worse down the stretch.

Next year, we'll have Okafor, Plumlee, Semi, Jefferson, amongst others.

I just don't understand why K keeps pursuing him, based on past experiences.

K is a HUGE DBR fan. He knows that the 2015 will not be complete without a "More PT for Semi" thread.

Myles Turner coming to Duke guarantees the existence of the thread.

[UrinalCake]

Maybe this has been covered before, but why are we going after this kid?

Yeah, I think there may be a thread or two discussing the topic 8-). I think the bottom line is that if you have a chance to bring in this type of talent, you do it and then figure out the minutes distribution later. I try to look at it as a win-win: if he comes then we have a stacked front court with incredible talent and depth, but if he doesn't then we are still in great shape and other guys will have a chance to step up.

[firstpost]

Maybe this has been covered before, but why are we going after this kid? It seems we have plenty of horses in the stable, and it's not like K has EVER lengthened his bench. In fact, the few times he has come close, it's almost as if the team performed worse down the stretch.

Next year, we'll have Okafor, Plumlee, Semi, Jefferson, amongst others.

I just don't understand why K keeps pursuing him, based on past experiences.

I'm with Faison on this one. Don't get me wrong, winning is great and everything but if Myles' commitment results in a transfer, I would prefer no commitment. In other words, does Myles' commitment raise the chances of a championship to the degree that would warrant a transfer? I don't think so. I like Myles' game, but I also like what we have and I'd like to keep them...happy if possible.

[gumbomoop]

Common sense would tell you that our chances of landing are turner are small, simply because we have Okafor, but it does sound like a slim chance does still exist. I imagine that K's pitch at his in-home yesterday was that now that Parker and Hood are officially gone there are minutes to be had and room for Turner to assert himself as a key piece of the team.

I'm guessing the thing that has made Turner's decision difficult is less, or not merely, any pitch Krzyzewski made re available minutes, nor any one particular element of how K envisions Turner's role. My guess is that K's most effective pitch is K himself, his thoroughness, the completeness and creativity of his analysis of the game of basketball and of human relations.

I'm pretty sure K astonished several, almost every one, of the NBA guys the first time he laid out his vision for the national team. They couldn't believe it. They'd rarely, in most cases never, met a coach, a person, like K. [I'm pretty sure I think K is a lot more flawed than those NBA guys, and suspect he has to remind them occasionally that he screws up.]

It would be interesting to see a tape of, say, 5 in-home visits with Turner. I'd bet K's presentation would be fundamentally different, more interesting, more surprising, than the others. And I'd bet Turner was impressed by how K transitioned from a meta-vision about people and basketball, to how Turner himself might think about his own talents.

I've no clue as to Turner's GPA. But I will repeat a comment I made last evening in this thread: in an interview at the JBC [where Turner didn't play because of injury], Turner came across as a bright, well-spoken, thoughtful young man, a promising addition to Duke beyond the basketball team. So I'll intuit that Turner might have been wowed intellectually by Mike Krzyzewski's intellect.

Not necessarily a game-changer for Turner, but Krzyzewski is playing a qualitatively different game from that played by many coaches. Some kids would be unsettled -- in a good way -- by a presentation so fundamentally different as actually to be eye-opening.

[roywhite]

I'm guessing the thing that has made Turner's decision difficult is less, or not merely, any pitch Krzyzewski made re available minutes, nor any one particular element of how K envisions Turner's role. My guess is that K's most effective pitch is K himself, his thoroughness, the completeness and creativity of his analysis of the game of basketball and of human relations.

I'm pretty sure K astonished several, almost every one, of the NBA guys the first time he laid out his vision for the national team. They couldn't believe it. They'd rarely, in most cases never, met a coach, a person, like K. [I'm pretty sure I think K is a lot more flawed than those NBA guys, and suspect he has to remind them occasionally that he screws up.]

It would be interesting to see a tape of, say, 5 in-home visits with Turner. I'd bet K's presentation would be fundamentally different, more interesting, more surprising, than the others. And I'd bet Turner was impressed by how K transitioned from a meta-vision about people and basketball, to how Turner himself might think about his own talents.

I've no clue as to Turner's GPA. But I will repeat a comment I made last evening in this thread: in an interview at the JBC [where Turner didn't play because of injury], Turner came across as a bright, well-spoken, thoughtful young man, a promising addition to Duke beyond the basketball team. So I'll intuit that Turner might have been wowed intellectually by Mike Krzyzewski's intellect.

Not necessarily a game-changer for Turner, but Krzyzewski is playing a qualitatively different game from that played by many coaches. Some kids would be unsettled -- in a good way -- by a presentation so fundamentally different as actually to be eye-opening.

Interesting comments, and I suspect K has made an impact on young Mr. Turner.

I've had mixed feelings about this recruitment:
It seemed unlikely to result in a commitment to Duke
Was there too much of an overlap between Okafor and Turner for each to thrive?
It represented, to my mind, too much of an emphasis on potential one-and-done players
Along with that, it would make playing time less available to Amile and Semi, players whom I like, seem well-suited to Duke, and have good potential

On the other hand, I too have been impressed by Turner's game and by his interviews
He can block shots, shoot a jumper, and is one of the best talents in the Class of 2014
When I look at Kentucky's prospective frontcourt for next year, it sure wouldn't hurt to have Turner in our lineup

I'm still guessing that Turner will choose to go elsewhere, and the decision may hinge on a factor like being relatively close to home
Of course, Dallas to the Triangle is not a bad plane flight, and Euless is not exactly next door to Tucson, AZ or Lawrence, KS, etc. either.

We'll see.

[ICP]

Maybe this has been covered before, but why are we going after this kid? It seems we have plenty of horses in the stable, and it's not like K has EVER lengthened his bench. In fact, the few times he has come close, it's almost as if the team performed worse down the stretch.

Next year, we'll have Okafor, Plumlee, Semi, Jefferson, amongst others.

I just don't understand why K keeps pursuing him, based on past experiences.

Our front court so far consists of two centers that can't play PF, Okafor and Plumlee, and one undersized powerforward with no proven jump shot (Jefferson). Semi is a SF, as previously discussed. So we have a big need for Turner, actually, rather than being a luxury, if only to assure that we have two PFs on the roster. I think he will complete our roster and be a huge asset.

[johnb]

There are 200 total minutes available, perhaps 80 minutes for a couple of interior players. If Myles comes and is as good as advertised, he gets 30 or so. That means less for some people, especially anyone who plays inside whose initials aren't JO.

The fact that K flew to Texas indicates that Myles is an elite talent AND that our incoming players enjoyed playing alongside him at these all star games (if he were a jerk or a bad teammate, I bet we would have tactfully backed away). Ya never know, but our chance of winning the championship increases with Myles, even if he leaves next year, and at this point in his career, K would make A LOT of trips to Texas for a couple of more championships.

It's hard to imagine MT would go to Texas, even if it is THE University of Texas and affords the occasional opportunity to play pick up with Durant. Texas is a football school with paltry attendance for most games--and never reaches the heights of the only Duke game Myles has seen in person. Here is the Texas school newspaper explaining why Turner would be a bad fit for their own school: http://www.dailytexanonline.com/spor...t-choose-texas

SMU would be a really fun team next year if he went there (and Garrett and Romo were also at the game for his official visit), but the fan enthusiasm is partly generated by their shock at having a winning team. Aside from his tendency to jump around, the coach is 73, and SMU is likely to slump back into mediocrity as soon as he retires. He might go there if he wanted a raucous crowd close to home, but he wouldn't be joining a long tradition or one that is likely to have legs.

OSU and Texas A&M don't strike me as great competition to us, but the fact that MT has put these rural/conservative campuses on his final list makes me worry that he'll go to a school that combines our fans, tradition, and talent with a flat, isolated location. And then both KS and KY would be incredibly deep on the front line.

But the reason that I keep thinking we're going to get lucky is that, more than anyone else, K can talk about how MT can come to Duke and not just compete with NC and KY but with some of the players he's coached, like KB, LJ, KD, and AS. The risk with Duke (and Kansas) is that if he doesn't really do well, he could lose a starting spot--which is really unlikely to happen at a place like OSU, SMU, or A&M. But I believe that he's conflicted, and--assuming he's not just blowing smoke--that puts us definitely in the running...