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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Durham, NC

    Props to Gbinije and Rivers

    0 and 13! That is so awesome. I don't think I've been this amped about an incoming class in a long time.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    They should break the mold and make a jersey with all five starters numbers on it as it was truly a team effort that brough K his fourth banner.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    And when talking about #12, you can't leave out David Henderson.
    1976 Olympic Gold Medalist Tate Armstrong is another great #12.
    Bob Green
    United States Navy (Retired)
    @JBobGreen

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by dukebsbll14 View Post
    Probably won't get see a jersey retirement happen in my years ...eh I'll get over it.
    I wouldn't be quite so quick to draw that conclusion. Compare Chelsea Gray's freshman stats to Lindsey Harding's. And Chelsea has unlimited upside.

  5. #25
    I think given the brotherly relationship Nolan and Cook seem to have had all this time, it's a wonderful touch that Cook is taking the baton. I believe Nolan recently said something on Twitter about bestowing the No. 2 on Cook.

    I'm not saying I think they should or shouldn't -- I'm honestly indifferent, I think it can go either way -- but I wouldn't think such a symbolic and sensical move necessarily precludes Nolan's number from being retired, if that was the direction Krzyzewski wanted to go.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Durham
    I'm not sure how I feel about Kyle and/or Nolan having their numbers retired either (that is the more interesting part of this thread IMO), but I do think that it will be a long time before we have two kids that mean more over their careers to the Duke program. My first gut reaction to hearing their numbers being passed down is sadness....but then again no one has a better perspective on the program than K and so I support his decision assuming that is has been made.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Near Cameron & Wallace Wade Stadium
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    1976 Olympic Gold Medalist Tate Armstrong is another great #12.

    I was a youngster, and loved Tate Armstrong!!!

    When will the number 0 jerseys be available in the Univ Store? They will be in big demand.

    And if #2 and #12 are taken, does that mean that Nolan's or Kyle's jersey won't be retired to the rapters? Wouldn't that have been decided already? Kyle and Nolan, are two of the best Duke basketball players, who have each accomplished so much, along with their National Championship! Such a humble tandem, and always gracious to the fans with signing autographs and posing for pictures!

    Looking forward to the new recruits!

  8. #28

    Kyle

    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    I hope I don't get blasted for saying this, but I don't think Kyle deserves to have his jersey retired. I'm as big a fan of his as any, and will always remember him as one of the toughest guys to play for Duke. He was an exceptional player for four years in an era when so many guys leave early, his name is on the list of many Duke records, and he'll always be a national champion. But there are only so many jerseys that can be retired, and if you were to ask if I consider him to be among the top, say, 15 guys to ever play for Duke, I would have to say no. I don't believe he was ever a National Player of the Year among any of the major awards, and you could argue that he was never even the best player on his team. Still love the guy.
    Not going to blast you, but I'm going to strongly disagree. The case for Kyle:

    -- The No. 4 scorer in Duke history -- 8th in ACC history.
    -- One of just 10 players in ACC history to finish with 2,000 points and 1,000 rebounds
    -- Final Four MVP
    -- ACC Tournament MVP (played on three ACC championship teams)
    -- Started more victories than any player in college basketball history (and he wasn't just a supporting character -- he was a star all four years).

    No, he was not a national player of the year ... but neither were Mullins, Gminski or Hurley. Grant and Shelden were merely defensive players of the year (but so were Wojo, King and Amaker, who were not retired). While Kyle was not honored for his defense, Coach K (who has the final say in these calls) called him the best defensive player in the country last year.

    By the standards of the guys already hanging up there, Kyle is easily up there. He has a better case than Mullins, Gminski and Shelden ... probably better than Hurley.

    I'd have a hard time not ranking him in the top 15 ... maybe top 10.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    brooklyn
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilWearsPrada View Post
    And if #2 and #12 are taken, does that mean that Nolan's or Kyle's jersey won't be retired to the rapters?
    toronto's only pick is at five, and i doubt that nolan or kyle would go that high, sorry.
    Excelsior!

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    Not going to blast you, but I'm going to strongly disagree. The case for Kyle:

    -- The No. 4 scorer in Duke history -- 8th in ACC history.
    -- One of just 10 players in ACC history to finish with 2,000 points and 1,000 rebounds
    -- Final Four MVP
    -- ACC Tournament MVP (played on three ACC championship teams)
    -- Started more victories than any player in college basketball history (and he wasn't just a supporting character -- he was a star all four years).

    No, he was not a national player of the year ... but neither were Mullins, Gminski or Hurley. Grant and Shelden were merely defensive players of the year (but so were Wojo, King and Amaker, who were not retired). While Kyle was not honored for his defense, Coach K (who has the final say in these calls) called him the best defensive player in the country last year.

    By the standards of the guys already hanging up there, Kyle is easily up there. He has a better case than Mullins, Gminski and Shelden ... probably better than Hurley.I'd have a hard time not ranking him in the top 15 ... maybe top 10.
    In terms of consistency, grit, toughness....no doubt.

    But in terms of greatness vs his peers nationally? Did Kyle ever achieve 1st or 2nd team All-America status? I'm pretty certain that Mullins, Gminski, Shelden, and Hurley did.

    I would liken Kyle as a rafter candidate roughly equivalent to Mark Alarie or Shelden Williams. Which is to say, marginal.

    I suppose it's good to have so many jersey numbers retired and to have discussions like this occasionally, but I'm not sure Kyle's number belongs in the rafters.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    I think the "eye test" would choose Kyle over Shelden Williams all day long. No disrespect to Shelden.
    Failure is always an option.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    He has a better case than Mullins, Gminski and Shelden ... probably better than Hurley.
    First off, I don't think Shelden's jersey should have been retired. Again, great player, still the leading rebounder and blocker in Duke history, but one-dimensional and therefore not among the truly elite. I believe his postseason career consisted of a single Final Four appearance. Maybe I'm just stingy about retiring jerseys, but I see it as a rare event for the absolute best players of all time.

    Secondly I have to strongly disagree that Kyle is more deserving than Hurley. Hurley is still the all-time NCAA career leader in assists and won two National Championships. He is synonymous with the concept of a Duke point guard.

    As for Kyle, perhaps if his senior year had gone differently - let's say he at least replicated his numbers from the previous year and made it to the Final Four - then I might have a different opinion. As it stands, I guess we'll just have to disagree.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    First off, I don't think Shelden's jersey should have been retired. Again, great player, still the leading rebounder and blocker in Duke history, but one-dimensional and therefore not among the truly elite. I believe his postseason career consisted of a single Final Four appearance. Maybe I'm just stingy about retiring jerseys, but I see it as a rare event for the absolute best players of all time.
    I realize that these debates have been re-hashed over and over again, but what part of Shelden's game was one-dimensional? Was it the 1,928 points? The 1,262 rebounds (as you note, most in Duke history)? The 422 blocks (again, most in Duke history)? Not sure what dimension is lacking there, Shelden contributed plenty on offense.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    First off, I don't think Shelden's jersey should have been retired. Again, great player, still the leading rebounder and blocker in Duke history, but one-dimensional and therefore not among the truly elite. I believe his postseason career consisted of a single Final Four appearance. Maybe I'm just stingy about retiring jerseys, but I see it as a rare event for the absolute best players of all time.
    Would that one dimension be his rebounding (like you said, most ever at Duke), shot-blocking (like you said, most ever at Duke), his defensive ability (NDPOY), his efficient shooting (57.2% career FG%, at least 57.8% his last 3 years) or his scoring (increased every year up to 18.8 ppg as a senior)? The first team AA honor was also pretty good for a one-dimensional player.
    Secondly I have to strongly disagree that Kyle is more deserving than Hurley. Hurley is still the all-time NCAA career leader in assists and won two National Championships. He is synonymous with the concept of a Duke point guard.

    As for Kyle, perhaps if his senior year had gone differently - let's say he at least replicated his numbers from the previous year and made it to the Final Four - then I might have a different opinion. As it stands, I guess we'll just have to disagree.
    I would have liked Kyle's senior year to have gone a bit differently (it would have been nice if he had avoided the shooting slump) and of course ended at a later date. I think you make some good points, but I think Kyle is synonymous with the concept of a Duke player and student athlete and I would love to see his jersey retired. That's more my opinion than any great disagreement with your points, though I think you may be underrating Shelden.
    “Those two kids, they’re champions,” Krzyzewski said of his senior leaders. “They’re trying to teach the other kids how to become that, and it’s a long road to become that.”

  15. #35

    #13

    I don't know about you guys but I love the Duke #13...it always reminds me of one of my fav blue devils of all time....Lee Melchionni!!! Played with such passion and effort. I'd take a guy like him on my roster every year!

    I hope Mike Gbinije does work in that jersey!!

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Starter View Post
    I think given the brotherly relationship Nolan and Cook seem to have had all this time, it's a wonderful touch that Cook is taking the baton. I believe Nolan recently said something on Twitter about bestowing the No. 2 on Cook.

    I'm not saying I think they should or shouldn't -- I'm honestly indifferent, I think it can go either way -- but I wouldn't think such a symbolic and sensical move necessarily precludes Nolan's number from being retired, if that was the direction Krzyzewski wanted to go.
    This is going to kill me next season. Nolan will always be my #2. Now I really have to get my jersey ordered.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    I hope I don't get blasted for saying this, but I don't think Kyle deserves to have his jersey retired. I'm as big a fan of his as any, and will always remember him as one of the toughest guys to play for Duke. He was an exceptional player for four years in an era when so many guys leave early, his name is on the list of many Duke records, and he'll always be a national champion. But there are only so many jerseys that can be retired, and if you were to ask if I consider him to be among the top, say, 15 guys to ever play for Duke, I would have to say no. I don't believe he was ever a National Player of the Year among any of the major awards, and you could argue that he was never even the best player on his team. Still love the guy.
    I don't think you should be blasted for this opinion. You make good points. And I'm one who has argued Singler and Smith should have their jerseys retired. After the way this season played out, I'm less inclined, but still believe they should have that honor. The outcome of this season and frankly the quality of play in the NCAA Tourney probably has a lot of people second guessing. But I still maintain that Singler and Smith, had they gone pro last year, probably would have garnered strong consideration. Once they decided on both returning as seniors together, it captured for me the meaning of team and what I believe Duke basketball aspires to. There's no stat for this. It's based on what Coach K and the organization decides. I personally believe it goes a long way. There's no way Singler and Smith are the strongest candidates, but I believe they just meet the qualifications. If in my mind they were strong candidates last season after winning the NC, then nothing has changed. I don't believe that anything happening this season should be based on what they didn't achieve, but what they did accomplish, which was a good winning season and an ACC Tourney Championship (and a NPOY candidate). No small feat. But, ultimately, it's how they positively lead and personified Duke basketball. My uninformed guess is that it's a toss up, but in the end, the coin will land in their favor with Coach K flipping it.

  18. #38

    Nickname

    Per twitter:

    Austin Rivers has dubbed himself a new nickname for next year. Since he will be wearing Zero his nickname has become......Sub Zero. Ah....so many Mortal Kombat references...FINISH HIM!

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    brooklyn
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke of Nashville View Post
    Per twitter:

    Austin Rivers has dubbed himself a new nickname for next year. Since he will be wearing Zero his nickname has become......Sub Zero. Ah....so many Mortal Kombat references...FINISH HIM!
    oh boy, i can't wait to watch him deliver a FATALITY to barnes' knees with his crossover.
    Excelsior!

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by NovaScotian View Post
    oh boy, i can't wait to watch him deliver a FATALITY to barnes' knees with his crossover.
    Flawless Victory

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