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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    Upstate NY
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    The Jeter vs. Nunez comparison is interesting. As of this moment, Jeter is hitting .250 with no power and only a few walks. His OPS is a dreadful .577 (after a career .834). On the other hand, Nunez is batting .385 with a .900-plus OPS (albiet in limited at bats).

    The problem is that Nunez already has five errors in limited chances -- he's fielding under .800!

    Jeter (who has one error in far more innings this season) led all regular shortstops in baseball last season with just five errors. That's one reason he won the gold glove at short, even though his range is near the bottom at the position. But managers (who vote on the gold glove) value dependality more than anything else.

    Nunez today had two hits and two errors. That's unacceptable.

    Here's my solution:

    (1) Jeter stays at short, but drops down to 8th in the lineup -- at least until he starts to hit better.

    (2) Nunez temporarily replaces Posada at DH -- at least until Nunez's OPS comes down. Let Gardner, Nunez bat 1-2 in front of Tex, A-Roid and Cano.

    And just to return to our Python roots, I read all the stuff about Jeter's decline and I think about the "Bring out your dead scene"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grbSQ6O6kbs

    "I'm not dead yet!"
    Great comparison on Jetes and the Grail.

    I don't know know if I'd hit Nunez for Posada just yet. I think we need to give Jorge more time. Remember, this is his first go round at DH and it's quite a bit different from catching where you're involved with each pitch. It's gotta be killing him.

    I also don't think you move Jeter yet. Sure, if the Yanks had a bona fide top 1-2 hitter you'd think about it but they don't. I'd give him a longer leash and see if he can somehow come out of it.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Watching carolina Go To HELL!
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug.I.Am View Post
    Please spare me the pox on my house, I'd never be anything less than gracious to the mighty Oz.

    It was simply an addition to quotes from a great flick. Certainly nothing malicious intended. I'll leave you with, "First you must find... another shrubbery! (dramatic chord) Then, when you have found the shrubbery, you must place it here, beside this shrubbery, only slightly higher so you get a two layer effect with a little path running down the middle. ("A path! A path!") Then, you must cut down the mightiest tree in the forrest... with... a herring!
    That's what I thought, and why I didn't give you any negative sporks when I saw your comment! In fact, I think I'll give you some positive one's after I post this!

    No way do I DH with Nunez. Jorge still has his bat speed and of his first, what? 10 hits, 6 were home runs. Now he's starting to hit solid line drives up the middle for base hits too, so his stroke is coming back to "normal". Jorge is and will be fine. And yeah, I'm willing to give Jete a little longer rope at the top of the order before moving him down. I'm sure he'll suggest it himself when the time is right to "take the pressure off" of Girardi having to make the decision. He is, after all, The Captain.
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
    9F 9F 9F
    http://www.EGLEW.com


  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by OZZIE4DUKE View Post
    No way do I DH with Nunez. Jorge still has his bat speed and of his first, what? 10 hits, 6 were home runs. Now he's starting to hit solid line drives up the middle for base hits too, so his stroke is coming back to "normal". Jorge is and will be fine.
    I'm not quite as confident that he'll be fine, but I agree, other than for the sake of giving Jorge a day off or two to clear his head or give him a wakeup call or whatever, I wouldn't consider Nunez a DH candidate at all. It is a shame, if unsurprising, that Chavez got hurt. He's a guy I would give some DH time to, so losing him while he was hitting well hurts.
    Demented and sad, but social, right?

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Upstate NY
    There is a guy named Jorge Vazquez in the minors that can rake(at least at the AAA level) but no way in heck are they going to bring him up to replace Jorge. Jorge isn't going anywhere as long as he's healthy. Same with Jeter unless his numbers drop to the 220-230 range. It's getting painful to watch Jetes play like this for this long. Time waits for no one.

  5. #25

    nunez

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue in the Face View Post
    I'm not quite as confident that he'll be fine, but I agree, other than for the sake of giving Jorge a day off or two to clear his head or give him a wakeup call or whatever, I wouldn't consider Nunez a DH candidate at all. It is a shame, if unsurprising, that Chavez got hurt. He's a guy I would give some DH time to, so losing him while he was hitting well hurts.
    Dismissing Nunez as a DH is an example of old-time stereotypes. He doesn't look like the kind of re-tread slugger that usually gets the DH role, but (1) he's a liability on defense and (2) a more effective hitter than Posada or anyone else the Yankees have available to DH.

    Currently, Nunez's offensive numbers are .385/.429 (OBP)/.538 (slug) -- .967 OPS. That's currently the best on the Yankee team. By contrast, Posada is .154/.238/.374 -- .611. Even with the home runs, Posada's slugging numbers are significantly lower than Nunez.

    Now, I understand that Nunez has compiled his gaudy stats in a limited number of at bats. I doubt he's a .900 OPS guy in the long term. Still, his career OPS is .740 and he was in that range in triple A ...

    All I'm saying is that while Posada is struggling, give Nunez some extended moments at DH to see if he can sustain his high level of performance. If not, go back to Posada, then think about calling up Vasquez (who was great in preseason for the Yankees and is currently .892 OPS in Scranton) or Montera (who is batting .372 in Scranton, although with little power).

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    Dismissing Nunez as a DH is an example of old-time stereotypes. He doesn't look like the kind of re-tread slugger that usually gets the DH role, but (1) he's a liability on defense and (2) a more effective hitter than Posada or anyone else the Yankees have available to DH.

    Currently, Nunez's offensive numbers are .385/.429 (OBP)/.538 (slug) -- .967 OPS. That's currently the best on the Yankee team. By contrast, Posada is .154/.238/.374 -- .611. Even with the home runs, Posada's slugging numbers are significantly lower than Nunez.

    Now, I understand that Nunez has compiled his gaudy stats in a limited number of at bats. I doubt he's a .900 OPS guy in the long term. Still, his career OPS is .740 and he was in that range in triple A ...

    All I'm saying is that while Posada is struggling, give Nunez some extended moments at DH to see if he can sustain his high level of performance. If not, go back to Posada, then think about calling up Vasquez (who was great in preseason for the Yankees and is currently .892 OPS in Scranton) or Montera (who is batting .372 in Scranton, although with little power).
    Fan - Nunez is a career .274 hitter in the minors and never hit more than 9 HR's in a single season. That's not the kind of guy I want DH'ing. The numbers he has posted thus far are impressive, but they're based on 13 AB's. He's an o-fer away from a .294 average. I think he has a decent future ahead of him but I want Jorge in there at least for the time being.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York City
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug.I.Am View Post
    Fan - Nunez is a career .274 hitter in the minors and never hit more than 9 HR's in a single season. That's not the kind of guy I want DH'ing. The numbers he has posted thus far are impressive, but they're based on 13 AB's. He's an o-fer away from a .294 average. I think he has a decent future ahead of him but I want Jorge in there at least for the time being.
    All of this DH talk makes it harder to watch Lance Berkman return to his MVP caliber production for St. Louis. Current OPS is 1.237. He's 35. This can't last, right?
    Singler is IRON

    I STILL GOT IT! -- Ryan Kelly, March 2, 2013

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    Dismissing Nunez as a DH is an example of old-time stereotypes. He doesn't look like the kind of re-tread slugger that usually gets the DH role, but (1) he's a liability on defense and (2) a more effective hitter than Posada or anyone else the Yankees have available to DH.
    Currently, Nunez's offensive numbers are .385/.429 (OBP)/.538 (slug) -- .967 OPS. That's currently the best on the Yankee team. By contrast, Posada is .154/.238/.374 -- .611. Even with the home runs, Posada's slugging numbers are significantly lower than Nunez.

    Now, I understand that Nunez has compiled his gaudy stats in a limited number of at bats. I doubt he's a .900 OPS guy in the long term. Still, his career OPS is .740 and he was in that range in triple A ... [/QUOTE]
    I think it's pretty silly to champion Nunez as a realistic DH candidate based on his 14 plate appearances in 2011, nor do I think 53 plate appearances in 2010 of .321/.360/.681 makes much of a case either. While he was decent enough in AAA as you point out, a career .318 minor league obp and .369 slugging doesn't strike me as much of a resume for extended playing time if defense isn't a consideration. I'm not sure what old-time sterotype it is that leads me to dismiss him as a DH, unless not wanting poor hitters at DH is an old-time sterotype.

    All I'm saying is that while Posada is struggling, give Nunez some extended moments at DH to see if he can sustain his high level of performance.
    I think this would be foolishly grasping at a hot bat based on a few good at-bats, when there's little chance Nunez is realistically that good a hitter. I think such moments at DH are far better invested in getting Posada in a groove than in hoping a middling hitter has caught lightning. I'm not without concern that the ship has sailed on Posada, but I think he's far more likely to produce than Nunez is, regardless of their respective starts.
    Demented and sad, but social, right?

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by mr. synellinden View Post
    All of this DH talk makes it harder to watch Lance Berkman return to his MVP caliber production for St. Louis. Current OPS is 1.237. He's 35. This can't last, right?
    You're not kidding, he is just smoking. Hard to imagine it lasting, but for now, holy smokes.
    Demented and sad, but social, right?

  10. #30

    DH

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug.I.Am View Post
    Fan - Nunez is a career .274 hitter in the minors and never hit more than 9 HR's in a single season. That's not the kind of guy I want DH'ing.
    this is EXACTLY what I meant by a stereotype -- where is it written that a DH has to hit a lot of home runs? Why not a high OBP guy who can hit at the top of the order? A guy like Lonnie Smith (a great offensive player, but one of the worst defensive outfielders in history) would have been a great DH ... and he didn't hit home runs either.

    The Yanks don't lack power -- they are on pace to hit more home runs than any team in history (although it's still early). But they are struggling to get men on base. I repeat ... Nunez -- for now -- can help in that area more than Posada.

    I know he's not going to slug .550 plus (as he is now), but if you look at his career, he's been a very solid on-base guy since he turned 20 ... in the .350 range. Just as Jeter's current numbers are a combination of his declining skills and a cold stretch; Nunez's current outstanding stats could be seen as a reflection of his improving skills (he's barely 22) as much as a hot streak.

    I just think the Yankees should give him the at bats we need to see how much of his team-high OPS is just a hot streak and how much is a reflection of his rising offensive skills. And with his weak glove, the one place to give him those at bats is at DH.

    Unfortunately, I fear that Joe is like so many fans -- wedded to the stereotype of what a DH should be.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Watching carolina Go To HELL!
    Derek Jeter just hit his first home run of the year, a line drive shot to right center in Texas! El Capitan isn't ready to be put out to pasture just yet! He is 3 for 3 today, and he just missed a home run yesterday, hitting the top of the wall when he got a double. All he needed was some warm weather to heat up his bat!
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
    9F 9F 9F
    http://www.EGLEW.com


  12. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Watching carolina Go To HELL!
    Quote Originally Posted by OZZIE4DUKE View Post
    Derek Jeter just hit his first home run of the year, a line drive shot to right center in Texas! El Capitan isn't ready to be put out to pasture just yet! He is 3 for 3 today, and he just missed a home run yesterday, hitting the top of the wall when he got a double. All he needed was some warm weather to heat up his bat!
    "The reports of my demise have been greatly exaggerated". So said Derek Jeter as he stepped on home plate ater slugging his second home run of the day, this one traveling 410 feet to dead center field.
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
    9F 9F 9F
    http://www.EGLEW.com


  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    this is EXACTLY what I meant by a stereotype -- where is it written that a DH has to hit a lot of home runs? Why not a high OBP guy who can hit at the top of the order? A guy like Lonnie Smith (a great offensive player, but one of the worst defensive outfielders in history) would have been a great DH ... and he didn't hit home runs either.

    The Yanks don't lack power -- they are on pace to hit more home runs than any team in history (although it's still early). But they are struggling to get men on base. I repeat ... Nunez -- for now -- can help in that area more than Posada.

    I know he's not going to slug .550 plus (as he is now), but if you look at his career, he's been a very solid on-base guy since he turned 20 ... in the .350 range. Just as Jeter's current numbers are a combination of his declining skills and a cold stretch; Nunez's current outstanding stats could be seen as a reflection of his improving skills (he's barely 22) as much as a hot streak.

    I just think the Yankees should give him the at bats we need to see how much of his team-high OPS is just a hot streak and how much is a reflection of his rising offensive skills. And with his weak glove, the one place to give him those at bats is at DH.

    Unfortunately, I fear that Joe is like so many fans -- wedded to the stereotype of what a DH should be.
    Sorry, but the only stereotype I'm seeing here is that a stretch of 50 ABs is a sign that a bench player needs to get more playing time (Shane Spencer/Shelley Duncan come to mind) or that a proven performer needs to sit. You even defeat your own argument by referring to Nunez being an "on-base guy". Nunez's best OBP in the MINOR leagues is .349 in AA in 2009. Posada has had one season in his entire career in the majors with a lower OBP than that (.341 in 1999). This year, he has continued to walk (.257 OBP despite a .152 AVG), he has continued to hit for power, his AVG will come up once balls start to drop in. The DH doesn't have to hit HRs, he just has to be the best hitter who isn't in the field. And there is little reason to believe Nunez will EITHER hit for more power OR get on base more than Posada.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by mr. synellinden View Post
    All of this DH talk makes it harder to watch Lance Berkman return to his MVP caliber production for St. Louis. Current OPS is 1.237. He's 35. This can't last, right?
    As a Redbird fan, I sure hope so! Pujols had a slow start, but he hasnt had this kind of protection in the order since the 2003-2004 Pujols/Edmonds/Rolen glory days. Berkman loves St. Louis, and the atmosphere makes it easier for nice-guy types like Holliday and Berkman to produce big numbers on the field. There isn't the same stress-level involved as being a Yankee or Red Sox...

    Of course, it helps that Berkman is healthy...and knock on wood he will get enough rest and off days to keep those knees of his healthy.

    Obviously the AVG is going to come down, but he could hit 30hrs and take 100rbis. Thats a killer year for a 35-yr old.

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