Why is nobody talking about Mason Plumlee?

[magjayran]

I think CJ has the offensive skills to be more successful in the NBA. I believe the only thing CJ can improve on in college is his attitude. He would improve his game more by sitting on an NBA bench.

Mason has a big body that can insure a long career in the NBA. There are a lot of guys in the NBA that get PT because they can play defense. Maybe Mason will be one of those guys?

in the end, Mason may have a longer NBA career than CJ, but ultimately that may have less to do with their ability to play basketball and more with their ability to get along with other people.

I mostly agree with you here. I would like to add that I think a player sticking around college an extra year or two to develop mentally and emotionally is highly underrated.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I really hope MP2's offense picks up and this year we see a more rounded player; having said that I'll take ten plus rebounds and two and half blocks also

If you can watch the game in which MP2 scored 25 points early in the season, you'll see him take, and make, a variety of mid range jump shots that found the bottom of the net late in the game. Real head shakers, as in "where the heck did that come from?" We never saw them again. He showed his complete offensive arsenal that game, from rim-rattling dunks to a deft outside shooting touch. Hopefully, after a summer of hard work, we will, with similar results!

[darjum]

If you can watch the game in which MP2 scored 25 points early in the season, you'll see him take, and make, a variety of mid range jump shots that found the bottom of the net late in the game. Real head shakers, as in "where the heck did that come from?" We never saw them again. He showed his complete offensive arsenal that game, from rim-rattling dunks to a deft outside shooting touch. Hopefully, after a summer of hard work, we will, with similar results!

An answer I heard many times was that Mason was merely the benefactor of having Kyrie to set him up. I actually don't buy that completely myself. Yes, having a lottery talented point guard will elevate your ability to score as a big man, hopefully your pg will create a lot of easy looks for you. But once you get the ball down low or in the high post you need to have the confidence to go to work.

This I feel is where Mason falls off. Confidence. If it his free throw shooting (.441%) or as yet unseen understanding of when to pump fake and when to use your athletic gifts and just rise up, there are times when he just looks lost offensively. Personally I would love to see him do most of his work down low and develop a jump hook, which with his jumping ability could be a useful weapon. I believe a high-low post offense between he and Kelly could be a devastating weapon for Duke next season and that with both Juniors, Duke is in safe hands in the front court. To put it mildly I'm all in MP2 bandwagon and feel that he is the key to Duke next season. Regardless of his offense, defensively is where he will shine. Adding 10+ points to 10+ rebounds wouldn't hurt though

[BD80]

Besides, it's the offseason, and Miles is always Duke's starting center in the offseason.

He's been tearing it up in pick-up games, he should easily average 25 pts, 15 rbs and 8 asts next year.

What do you mean I have to wait until June for the comparisons to Nick Horvath?

[watzone]

One must understand that newspapers constantly go for hits, so Plumlee possibly going pro was good for that. Mason is loved by NBA scouts for his potential and the coaches said that if he kept working [during hoops banquet] that he could be great. Mason is a heckuva student as well, highest GPA on the team. Mason seems to be running his own race and a lot of people will expect him to blow up this season and that is a fair expectation. I was told early on that Mason would likely return from as good a source as there is and so I never made a big deal out of the possibility of him leaving or that he returned. Duke fans are more than a little happy this took place but there is no need for thinking he is under appreciated when that is simply not the case. Mason could have gone to the league off potential this season, but another year and maybe two at Duke will not hurt his chances and will allow him to improve. Besides, how many schools can claim three brothers on a roster? That may have played a role as well. Who knows, he may stick around for four years and play with Marshall whom many think will redshirt. But I will say this, I am really glad he is back and think he can make All ACC if he works this off season.

[roywhite]

One must understand that newspapers constantly go for hits, so Plumlee possibly going pro was good for that. Mason is loved by NBA scouts for his potential and the coaches said that if he kept working [during hoops banquet] that he could be great. Mason is a heckuva student as well, highest GPA on the team. Mason seems to be running his own race and a lot of people will expect him to blow up this season and that is a fair expectation. I was told early on that Mason would likely return from as good a source as there is and so I never made a big deal out of the possibility of him leaving or that he returned. Duke fans are more than a little happy this took place but there is no need for thinking he is under appreciated when that is simply not the case. Mason could have gone to the league off potential this season, but another year and maybe two at Duke will not hurt his chances and will allow him to improve. Besides, how many schools can claim three brothers on a roster? That may have played a role as well. Who knows, he may stick around for four years and play with Marshall whom many think will redshirt. But I will say this, I am really glad he is back and think he can make All ACC if he works this off season.

Thanks, watzone; good comments.

I'm really looking forward to Mason's play next season. What a challenge he has (and our whole team) with the Zeller/Henson/McAdoo/Barnes frontcourt just down the road.

[UrinalCake]

Mason is a heckuva student as well, highest GPA on the team.

Thanks for that tidbit of info, it's great to recognize his work in the classroom. While most fans don't see him as NBA-ready, that doesn't mean that he couldn't have gone and been a lottery pick. It was a little surprising and also refreshing that a formal announcement wasn't made that he's staying - perhaps a little Kevin Durant'ish as compared to Barnes's Lebron-style proclamation (ok, it wasn't quite that over the top but still, he certainly milked a lot more attention out of it than Mason did).

[NSDukeFan]

An answer I heard many times was that Mason was merely the benefactor of having Kyrie to set him up. I actually don't buy that completely myself. Yes, having a lottery talented point guard will elevate your ability to score as a big man, hopefully your pg will create a lot of easy looks for you. But once you get the ball down low or in the high post you need to have the confidence to go to work.

This I feel is where Mason falls off. Confidence. If it his free throw shooting (.441%) or as yet unseen understanding of when to pump fake and when to use your athletic gifts and just rise up, there are times when he just looks lost offensively. Personally I would love to see him do most of his work down low and develop a jump hook, which with his jumping ability could be a useful weapon. I believe a high-low post offense between he and Kelly could be a devastating weapon for Duke next season and that with both Juniors, Duke is in safe hands in the front court. To put it mildly I'm all in MP2 bandwagon and feel that he is the key to Duke next season. Regardless of his offense, defensively is where he will shine. Adding 10+ points to 10+ rebounds wouldn't hurt though

I always love to see Ryan and Mason with high post touches and think they can both be very effective there, as I think both are very good passers, who also have the potential to score from there. Whether the coaching staff feels this will be part of the team's most efficient offensive sets will be interesting to see.
I am squarely in the "I think Mason is one of the big keys for Duke next year and I am expecting a break-out all-ACC type year" camp. Should I have put that in my sig, or should I leave that to Jason Evans and Superdave?

[ACCBBallFan]

Thanks, watzone; good comments.

I'm really looking forward to Mason's play next season. What a challenge he has (and our whole team) with the Zeller/Henson/McAdoo/Barnes frontcourt just down the road.

This isssue is not much different than last year when Duke won 2 of 3.

I would not count Barnes as a front court player. Indeed he will be a challenge and for the sake of comparison we can guess what Dukes' #1=#2 rated frosh Austin Rivers would do relative to Harrison, or perhaps DeAndre Daniels or Mike Gbinije or Alex Murphy. With the extra year of experience, Barnes would have the edge.

Back to front court though, yes McAdoo is probably a step up on Knox but essentially the same challenge Duke faced this past season when Duke won 2 of 3 times.

Zeller Henson and Knox totalled 223 minutes, 98 points and 74 rebounds.
Plumlees and Kelly totalled 214 minutes, 57 points and 65 boards.

So the UNC tallest 3 edge of 9 minutes, 41 points and 9 rebounds when averaged over 3 games is only 3 rebounds but 14 more front court points.

Knox whose totals are included averaged 13 minutes, 4 points and 3 boards and McAdoo would likely be a step on on those stats that would have to be offset by extra production from the Plumlees and Kelly (or perhaps Josh) for those 9 MPG where Kyle was the PF vs. UNC (240 possible for 3 games vs 214 for Duke's 3 guys =26 or an average of 9 MPG).

So yes, UNC has a statistical edge at PF/C, but not enough to have won more than 1 of the 3 games.

The big issue will be how to counterbalance Barnes, a lot more than Mason or Duke's other bigs matching up with Henson, Zeller and McAdoo in reserve.

The other issues are who will replace Nolan totally removing Kendall Marshall as a factor from the third game. Seth played very well versus UNC and presumably Austin Rivers will. So it is up to Andre Dawkins (in 3 games played 40 total minutes, scored 12 total points but only 1 rebound total in 3 games), Tyler Thornton (only played 7 total minutes 1 poiint 0 rebounds vs UNC in those 3 games), Quinn Cook and his fellow frosh to step up to fill the void left by Nolan.

Historically though a lot of top rated frosh on both teams have underperformed in their first season rivalry games, obviously some exceptions.

Kyle the senior did not play all that well (down 7 points from his season average 35, 17 and 7) vs UNC (averaged 40 minutes, 10 points and 7 boards vs UNC but hard to measure how much he held down Barnes (averaged 33 min, 14 points and 4 boards).

If and it is a big if, Duke could hold Barnes to 14 points and 4 boards, that is not a huge bogey for the 3 outstanding frosh be it Rivers, Gbinije, Murphy or possibly Daniels to total.

Irving of course never played vs. UNC or any ACC team. So replacing him is not an issue realtive to last year's 3 UNC games.

UNC main issue will continue to be outside shooting and Duke has a lot of talent but will miss Nolan and Kyle experience on both ends of the floor.

Mason averaged 25 MPG, 7 points and 9 boards, right on his season average of 25.6, 7.2 and 8.4.
Miles averaged 23 MPG, 7 points and 9 boards, well above his season average of 17, 4.8 and 4.9.
Ryan averaged 23 MPG, 5 points and 4 boards, slightly below his season averages of 20.1, 6.6 and 3.7
So as a trio the Duke bigs outperformed their season averages by 9 MPG (spread across 2 posiitons), scored 2 more points (again across 2 positions so e4ssentially a break even) and grabbed 5 more rebounds.

Of the 3, Ryan more than Mason (the subject of this thread) or Miles needs to help Duke offset UNC's front court advantages, but front court spread was not all that great other than in scoring which is the norm for Duke who relies much more on its guards for that.

Blocks BTW were even at a total of 10 for the 3 games by each team.

[JMarley50]

Somebody should suggest a little drill for the brothers this off season... 1 ball, each man for himself, no shots outside of the lane, and no fouls. I'd say that would toughen them up a little more and help their inside scoring. If they got to where they could score consistently on each other with a lot of contact, the games should be easy.

[Kedsy]

Somebody should suggest a little drill for the brothers this off season... 1 ball, each man for himself, no shots outside of the lane, and no fouls. I'd say that would toughen them up a little more and help their inside scoring. If they got to where they could score consistently on each other with a lot of contact, the games should be easy.

It would be all dunks. (As long as nobody was calling offensive fouls, either.)

[JMarley50]

It would be all dunks. (As long as nobody was calling offensive fouls, either.)

It would be fun to watch either way! It would make a man of Marshall really quick. I wonder who would win the goal-tending battle in that one?

[Greg_Newton]

Somebody should suggest a little drill for the brothers this off season... 1 ball, each man for himself, no shots outside of the lane, and no fouls. I'd say that would toughen them up a little more and help their inside scoring. If they got to where they could score consistently on each other with a lot of contact, the games should be easy.

Actually, I think 15 years of that drill is part of their problem. Rather than going up strong and taking contact, they tend to adjust their non-dunk shots so that, no matter what, they can get it off, even if it's a double-pump, over-the-head flip. You don't really get rewarded for going straight at the rim and taking contact in no-blood-no-foul games.

[JMarley50]

Actually, I think 15 years of that drill is part of their problem. Rather than going up strong and taking contact, they tend to adjust their non-dunk shots so that, no matter what, they can get it off, even if it's a double-pump, over-the-head flip. You don't really get rewarded for going straight at the rim and taking contact in no-blood-no-foul games.

That's funny. I didn't think about it that way. But you may be right. In reality I just hope they spend the whole summer working on baby hooks with both hands. Miles was starting to become fairly successful with that towards the end of the year. Hopefully somebody will also mention to Mason that he doesn't have to spin into the lane every time. I got so frustrated watching him spin into the paint where there was help, when the baseline was wide open.

[DukieInBrasil]

One must understand that newspapers constantly go for hits, so Plumlee possibly going pro was good for that. Mason is loved by NBA scouts for his potential and the coaches said that if he kept working [during hoops banquet] that he could be great. Mason is a heckuva student as well, highest GPA on the team. Mason seems to be running his own race and a lot of people will expect him to blow up this season and that is a fair expectation. I was told early on that Mason would likely return from as good a source as there is and so I never made a big deal out of the possibility of him leaving or that he returned. Duke fans are more than a little happy this took place but there is no need for thinking he is under appreciated when that is simply not the case. Mason could have gone to the league off potential this season, but another year and maybe two at Duke will not hurt his chances and will allow him to improve. Besides, how many schools can claim three brothers on a roster? That may have played a role as well. Who knows, he may stick around for four years and play with Marshall whom many think will redshirt. But I will say this, I am really glad he is back and think he can make All ACC if he works this off season.

I've thought about the question that others have raised about should Murphy red-shirt. Others thought it should be MP3. It seems to me that it could be detrimental to the 2012 team to red-shirt Marshall b/c, if MP2 jumps to the NBA after his Jr. year Duke would have no one with experience at the 5. Marshall will certainly improve even if he does red-shirt, but not as much as if he plays as much as RK did his Fr. year. Ryan could become a decent 5 but he's not been asked to play the 5 so far.

[heyman25]

That's funny. I didn't think about it that way. But you may be right. In reality I just hope they spend the whole summer working on baby hooks with both hands. Miles was starting to become fairly successful with that towards the end of the year. Hopefully somebody will also mention to Mason that he doesn't have to spin into the lane every time. I got so frustrated watching him spin into the paint where there was help, when the baseline was wide open.

How about developing some basic post moves? That goes for all the Plumlees. Also getting better instincts for rebounding. Learning to be in the right place will improve their rebounding numbers.

[Devilsfan]

Hey quit being so crtical. They have a coach to work on their deficiencies. I think one or two of them will have a breakout season. I wouldn't trade them for the two returners on the hill even if we could.

[ricks68]

Hey quit being so crtical. They have a coach to work on their deficiencies. I think one or two of them will have a breakout season. I wouldn't trade them for the two returners on the hill even if we could.

Actually, I would like to emphasize that they have a great big man coach to work on their deficiencies!

ricks

[UrinalCake]

Also getting better instincts for rebounding. Learning to be in the right place will improve their rebounding numbers.

What? Both Plumlees were great rebounders last year. For Mason, I think rebounding is the one area of his game that does NOT need improvement. And Miles was kind of overlooked but really came on strong towards the end of the season and was playing great D, including rebounding. Not sure where your assessment is coming from.

[COYS]

What? Both Plumlees were great rebounders last year. For Mason, I think rebounding is the one area of his game that does NOT need improvement. And Miles was kind of overlooked but really came on strong towards the end of the season and was playing great D, including rebounding. Not sure where your assessment is coming from.

I agree, here. With an improved awareness of where to be and how to position himself, Mason will become one of the 5-10 best rebounders in the country. He was already close last season. I think that if his rebounding improves next year, it will mostly be due to a generally improved basketball IQ that allows him to be in position more and more frequently.